Hi

I'm new to this newsgroup so this may of been covered before so apologies
for going over old ground (no pun intended!), but is there any 100% way of
getting rid of ground elder.

I have tried strimming, digging, burning and even tried weedkillers (sodium
chlorate amongst others) all to no avail.

I am getting overrun with it. If I dig over any part of the garden then
within a week it's there!

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks

Roger

[snip]
Getting rid of ground elder...

Systemic weedkiller is the best way, apparently. In a green garden, dig and
remove every last bit - a tiny sliver will grow again! Repeat ad nauseam
and don't let it get established after each dig. Daily hoeing works well in
a hot summer as eventually it gets weakened and dies.

Alternatively, sow a lawn and mow short for a couple of seasons. The ground
elder doesn't seem to compete well and eventually dies.

Keep at it and you will win. But especially at the start, it's a lot of
work. We started at one side of the garden and slowly worked our way
across, keeping an eye for "survivors" behind us as we went. Our gargen
isn't free, but it's now under control.

BTW, it will survive for quite long periods under weed suppressent! Don't
expect to put iot down and remove a few weeks later.

Paul DS.

"Paul D.Smith" wrote in message
et...
[snip]
Getting rid of ground elder...

Systemic weedkiller is the best way, apparently. In a green garden,
dig and
remove every last bit - a tiny sliver will grow again! Repeat ad
nauseam
and don't let it get established after each dig. Daily hoeing works
well in
a hot summer as eventually it gets weakened and dies.

Alternatively, sow a lawn and mow short for a couple of seasons.
The ground
elder doesn't seem to compete well and eventually dies.

Keep at it and you will win. But especially at the start, it's a
lot of
work. We started at one side of the garden and slowly worked our
way
across, keeping an eye for "survivors" behind us as we went. Our
gargen
isn't free, but it's now under control.

BTW, it will survive for quite long periods under weed suppressent!
Don't
expect to put iot down and remove a few weeks later.

It requires ar least a full growing season to be killed by a
suppressant like black polythene.

Franz

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:28:04 +0100, "Cat"
wrote:


Roundup is your friend. It sure is mine.


--
Cat(h)
The world swirls...

Roundup is heady stuff :-)

It is. Seriously, it nearly sounds too good to be true, and with the vast
amounts of opprobrium constantly poured over Monsanto by the Green
fraternity, I wonder - objectively - if there is anything to be concerned
re. using Roundup?
Does it genuinely become inert (forgive me if terminology is wonky) as soon
as it hits the ground? Does it leave no residue whatsoever? What about the
dead plant material, is that in any way contaminated? Are there any other
reasons of an environmental or ethical (dare I say it?) nature why one would
have a problem using it?


--
Cat(h)
The world swirls...

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:24:19 +0100, "Cat"
wrote:

Read the Dutch study that Franz is still perusing.

Is that available online, and if so have you a link?
Gratefully,
--
Cat(h)
The world swirls...
--
Martin

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:44:45 +0100, "Cat"
wrote:


"Martin" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:24:19 +0100, "Cat"
wrote:

Read the Dutch study that Franz is still perusing.

Is that available online, and if so have you a link?

I had the link, until I purged the folder. Perhaps Franz still has it?
--

A lazy google turns up reports of a dutch study in Roundup ready soya beans,
is that what we are talking about?

--
Cat(h)
The world swirls...
Martin

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:44:45 +0100, "Cat"
wrote:


"Martin" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:24:19 +0100, "Cat"
wrote:

Read the Dutch study that Franz is still perusing.

Is that available online, and if so have you a link?

I had the link, until I purged the folder. Perhaps Franz still has it?
--
Martin

A slightly less lazy google turns up this:
http://www.monsanto.com/monsanto/con.../roundup/glyph
osate_human_risk_backgrounder.pdf

But it is a Monsanto generated summary.
I'll keep looking for the original report.

Thanks for the tip.


--
Cat(h)
The world swirls...

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:29:45 +0100, "Cat"
wrote:


"Martin" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:44:45 +0100, "Cat"
wrote:


"Martin" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:24:19 +0100, "Cat"
wrote:

Read the Dutch study that Franz is still perusing.

Is that available online, and if so have you a link?

I had the link, until I purged the folder. Perhaps Franz still has it?
--
Martin

A slightly less lazy google turns up this:

http://www.monsanto.com/monsanto/con...y/roundup/glyp
h
osate_human_risk_backgrounder.pdf

But it is a Monsanto generated summary.
I'll keep looking for the original report.

"This is a report from a Dutch govt. institute make of it what you
will
www.rivm.nl/bibliotheek/rapporten/716601006.pdf"
--
Martin

The link won't open for me. But I'll go searching when I have more time.
Thanks :-)

--
Cat(h)
The world swirls...

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:19:18 +0100, "Cat"
wrote:
Try it without the quote
www.rivm.nl/bibliotheek/rapporten/716601006.pdf
--
Martin

The page still "cannot be displayed". No worries, I'll try again later.

--
Cat(h)
The world swirls...

"Cat" wrote in message
...

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:28:04 +0100, "Cat"

wrote:


Roundup is your friend. It sure is mine.


--
Cat(h)
The world swirls...

Roundup is heady stuff :-)

It is. Seriously, it nearly sounds too good to be true, and with
the vast
amounts of opprobrium constantly poured over Monsanto by the Green
fraternity, I wonder - objectively - if there is anything to be
concerned
re. using Roundup?
Does it genuinely become inert (forgive me if terminology is wonky)
as soon
as it hits the ground?

Quite soon

Does it leave no residue whatsoever?

None that matters

What about the
dead plant material, is that in any way

No. It is safe to compost it.

Are there any other
reasons of an environmental or ethical (dare I say it?) nature why
one would
have a problem using it?

None, except that it enriches Mr.Monsanto, but that is a cross we have
to bear.

Franz

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:24:19 +0100, "Cat"
wrote:


"Martin" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:28:04 +0100, "Cat"

wrote:


Roundup is your friend. It sure is mine.


--
Cat(h)
The world swirls...

Roundup is heady stuff :-)

It is. Seriously, it nearly sounds too good to be true, and with
the vast
amounts of opprobrium constantly poured over Monsanto by the Green
fraternity, I wonder - objectively - if there is anything to be
concerned
re. using Roundup?
Does it genuinely become inert (forgive me if terminology is wonky)
as soon
as it hits the ground? Does it leave no residue whatsoever? What
about the
dead plant material, is that in any way contaminated? Are there
any other
reasons of an environmental or ethical (dare I say it?) nature why
one would
have a problem using it?



Read the Dutch study that Franz is still perusing.

I have got a fair way into it and I still see no reason to forswear
it.

Franz

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:44:45 +0100, "Cat"
wrote:


"Martin" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:24:19 +0100, "Cat"

wrote:

Read the Dutch study that Franz is still perusing.

Is that available online, and if so have you a link?

I had the link, until I purged the folder. Perhaps Franz still has
it?

http://www.rivm.nl/bibliotheek/rapporten/716601006.pdf
unless I transcribed it wrongly.

Franz
--
Martin

"Cat" wrote in message
...

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:44:45 +0100, "Cat"

wrote:


"Martin" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:24:19 +0100, "Cat"

wrote:

Read the Dutch study that Franz is still perusing.

Is that available online, and if so have you a link?

I had the link, until I purged the folder. Perhaps Franz still has
it?
--

A lazy google turns up reports of a dutch study in Roundup ready
soya beans,
is that what we are talking about?

No. The link Martin gave me was to a report on the persistence of a
variety of gardening chemicals.

Franz

"Cat" wrote in message
...

"Martin" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:44:45 +0100, "Cat"

wrote:


"Martin" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:24:19 +0100, "Cat"

wrote:

Read the Dutch study that Franz is still perusing.

Is that available online, and if so have you a link?

I had the link, until I purged the folder. Perhaps Franz still has
it?
--
Martin

A slightly less lazy google turns up this:

http://www.monsanto.com/monsanto/con.../roundup/glyph
osate_human_risk_backgrounder.pdf

But it is a Monsanto generated summary.
I'll keep looking for the original report.

Thanks for the tip.

I do hope my link turns out to work. It is a very lengthy and very
detailed report. {:-))

Franz

In message , Cat
writes

"Martin" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:28:04 +0100, "Cat"
wrote:

Roundup is your friend. It sure is mine.

Roundup is heady stuff :-)

It is. Seriously, it nearly sounds too good to be true, and with the vast
amounts of opprobrium constantly poured over Monsanto by the Green
fraternity, I wonder - objectively - if there is anything to be concerned
re. using Roundup?

Only that if you use the branded product you are giving money to
Monsanto. ICI/Zeneca/whatever they are called now have an alternative
glyphosate salt and various other generic glyphosate formulations are on
the market now. Best buy is maximum strength of active ingredient per
unit cost.

Does it genuinely become inert (forgive me if terminology is wonky) as soon
as it hits the ground?

To a very good approximation on normal soils it is deactivated by
adsorption onto clay particles and then detoxed by fungi. Some plants
have been GM'd to detox glyphosate (probably a bad thing).

Does it leave no residue whatsoever? What about the
dead plant material, is that in any way contaminated? Are there any other
reasons of an environmental or ethical (dare I say it?) nature why one would
have a problem using it?

Everything leaves some residue, but the powerful lethal effect of
glyphosate on growing plants coupled with its relatively benign effect
on most other living things (malaria parasites excepted) makes it an
excellent choice.

You actually need to be more concerned about the surfactants and wetting
agents used in commercial glyphosate formulations than about the active
weedkilling ingredient. Most other weedkillers are decidedly nasty.

Treat all garden chemicals with respect.

Treating ground elder requires patience and repeated application of
herbicide and/or digging you are prepared to do. The bits that break off
are much less likely to regrow if they are laced with glyphosate first.

Regards,
--
Martin Brown