Hi all.

My mother swears she has read something recently about a dwarf plum variety.

From her description it sounds like a real miniature type, not just a
regular variety on a dwarfing root stock.

Anyone here heard of it?
--
Brian

My mother swears she has read something recently about a dwarf plum
variety.

From her description it sounds like a real miniature type, not just a
regular variety on a dwarfing root stock.

Anyone here heard of it?

is this it?

http://www.meiosis.co.uk/fruit/violetta.htm

On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 18:56:15 -0000, "Brian Watson"
wrote:

My mother swears she has read something recently about a dwarf plum variety.

From her description it sounds like a real miniature type, not just a
regular variety on a dwarfing root stock.

There's the cherry plum and also a French one called Mirob...? which
is cherry sized and golden brown. I've bought the latter in French
markets and have a fewYOUNG plants grown from the seeds.

Pam in Bristol

In article , Pam Moore
writes
On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 18:56:15 -0000, "Brian Watson"
wrote:

My mother swears she has read something recently about a dwarf plum variety.

From her description it sounds like a real miniature type, not just a
regular variety on a dwarfing root stock.

There's the cherry plum and also a French one called Mirob...? which
is cherry sized and golden brown. I've bought the latter in French
markets and have a fewYOUNG plants grown from the seeds.

That's the Myrobalam plum - Prunus cerasifera. The fruits grow like
cherries but taste like plums. We have lots of them in our hedges and
they produce masses of fruits in all the colours of cherries. They are
very early flowering, some of ours are almost in blossom now. In years
of late frosts, that can mean loss of harvest.

That said, I think that the OP was looking for a miniature or dwarf plum
tree, rather than mini-fruits.
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

Alan Gould wrote:
[...]
That's the Myrobalam plum - Prunus cerasifera. The fruits grow like
cherries but taste like plums. We have lots of them in our hedges
and
they produce masses of fruits in all the colours of cherries. They
are
very early flowering, some of ours are almost in blossom now. In
years
of late frosts, that can mean loss of harvest.
[...]

Ah, right: somebody to ask. Is this _P. cerasifera_, called
"Cherry-Plum" in the Collins _Field Guide_, the same as a bullace? Or
is a bullace the fruit of the "wild plum", _P. domestica_? The Guide
rather irritatingly doesn't mention bullaces, though it's a common
enough word, and OED1 uses the obsolete name _P. insititia_ (though
it does call the plant "semi-cultivated", which is interesting: I
assume it means planted deliberately, or encouraged, in hedgerows but
not in orchards).

Mike.

In article ,
Mike Lyle wrote:

Ah, right: somebody to ask. Is this _P. cerasifera_, called
"Cherry-Plum" in the Collins _Field Guide_, the same as a bullace? Or
is a bullace the fruit of the "wild plum", _P. domestica_? The Guide
rather irritatingly doesn't mention bullaces, though it's a common
enough word, and OED1 uses the obsolete name _P. insititia_ (though
it does call the plant "semi-cultivated", which is interesting: I
assume it means planted deliberately, or encouraged, in hedgerows but
not in orchards).

The bullace is nowadays known as P. domestica, subspecies insititia.
P. domestica is believed to have derived from P. cerasifera and
P. spinosa by hybridisation and chromosome doubling, though it is
debatable whether this happened naturally or artificially and once
or many times. It is also unclear whether it was introduced to the
UK by birds or humans. And your deduction of the meaning of semi-
cultivation is as good as any - the damson is usually regarded as
a cultivated bullace.

Given that chaos, are you surprised that the books are unclear?


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
Mike Lyle wrote:

Ah, right: somebody to ask. Is this _P. cerasifera_, called
"Cherry-Plum" in the Collins _Field Guide_, the same as a bullace?
Or
is a bullace the fruit of the "wild plum", _P. domestica_? The
Guide
rather irritatingly doesn't mention bullaces, though it's a common
enough word, and OED1 uses the obsolete name _P. insititia_
(though
it does call the plant "semi-cultivated", which is interesting: I
assume it means planted deliberately, or encouraged, in hedgerows
but
not in orchards).

The bullace is nowadays known as P. domestica, subspecies
insititia.
P. domestica is believed to have derived from P. cerasifera and
P. spinosa by hybridisation and chromosome doubling, though it is
debatable whether this happened naturally or artificially and once
or many times. It is also unclear whether it was introduced to the
UK by birds or humans. And your deduction of the meaning of semi-
cultivation is as good as any - the damson is usually regarded as
a cultivated bullace.

Given that chaos, are you surprised that the books are unclear?

Thanks. Not surprised at all when it comes to any domesticable
species. My old Latin dictionary, by the way, while not including
_insititius_, gives _insitio_ for "grafting"; this perhaps suggests
that _P.d.i._ may have been the stock used for orchard varieties in
the Middle Ages, or even by the Romans themselves.

I wonder if anybody's found readable DNA traces at Herculaneum. It
would be nice to have some evidence of Roman crop varieties -- it's
been said that the Pinot Meuniere grape dates to Roman times, for
example.

Mike.

In article , Mike Lyle mike_lyle_uk@REM
OVETHISyahoo.co.uk writes

Ah, right: somebody to ask. Is this _P. cerasifera_, called
"Cherry-Plum" in the Collins _Field Guide_, the same as a bullace? Or
is a bullace the fruit of the "wild plum", _P. domestica_? The Guide
rather irritatingly doesn't mention bullaces, though it's a common
enough word, and OED1 uses the obsolete name _P. insititia_ (though
it does call the plant "semi-cultivated", which is interesting: I
assume it means planted deliberately, or encouraged, in hedgerows but
not in orchards).

Yes, P.cerasifera is called 'Cherry-Plum' but it is quite different from
the Bullace - P.domestica. Cherry plums are not a wild plum, they were
widely used for hedging, which is why they are in our hedges, having
been originally planted there in 1920.

Bullaces can be described as a fruit somewhere between sloes [P.spinosa]
and damsons [P.domestica var institia]. They are deep purple and rugby
ball shaped with a fairly large stone and sharp tasting flesh. They
don't fruit every year, possibly for the same frost reason as Cherry-
Plums. The trees are a sport of Sloe/Blackthorn and though they mostly
grow wild now, they were originally cultivated for fruit and hedging
work. We have several of them and I find their long straight main stems
very useful for poles, stakes and walking sticks.

Hort. info from Sanders Enc. of Gardening.
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...
In article , Pam Moore
writes
On Tue, 1 Feb 2005 18:56:15 -0000, "Brian Watson"
wrote:

My mother swears she has read something recently about a dwarf plum
variety.

From her description it sounds like a real miniature type, not just a
regular variety on a dwarfing root stock.

There's the cherry plum and also a French one called Mirob...? which
is cherry sized and golden brown. I've bought the latter in French
markets and have a fewYOUNG plants grown from the seeds.

That's the Myrobalam plum - Prunus cerasifera. The fruits grow like
cherries but taste like plums.

Thanks, but it's not that one. My neighbour has one growing next door and it
is a full-size tree.

--
Brian

"Phil L" wrote in message
k...

My mother swears she has read something recently about a dwarf plum
variety.

From her description it sounds like a real miniature type, not just a
regular variety on a dwarfing root stock.

Anyone here heard of it?

is this it?

http://www.meiosis.co.uk/fruit/violetta.htm

Thank you. I think that may well be the one, though as she described it I
had thought it would be even shorter, full grown.

On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 18:27:42 +0000, Alan Gould
wrote:

That's the Myrobalam plum - Prunus cerasifera.

Sorry, misunderstood the original question.
Alan, the mini plums like cherry plums, which I bought in France were
not cherry coloured. They were like a brownish greengage, but cherry
sized, so not prunus cerasifera. On recollection,I think they called
them mirabelle! I'm hoping the seedlings of my French ones may help
pollinate my cherry plums which I wrote to you (Alan) about a few
years ago. They have gflowered but never fruited.

MIKE NO. Bullace are like a small damson or a large Sloe. Much less
sour than sloes but nothing like a cherry plum in flavour.

Pam in Bristol