In article ,
Mungo \"Two Sheds\" Toadfoot wrote:

I've been given some red chillies that were dried over 40 years ago; is
there any chance the seeds will germinate if planted?

Well, there is always a chance :-) I have no idea how long they keep,
but it is probably worth a go.

If there's an outside chance that they would germinate what would be the
best conditions for them and how would I start them (a good soak first
perhaps?). I have a nice warm airing cupboard if they want it, and a small,
could-be-heated greenhouse.

Depends on how many you have. If you have enough, try several methods.
They aren't extreme tropical plants and so don't need airing cupboard
temperatures, but they do like reasonable warmth to start. They need
to be damp but not wet and with good drainage - much like tomatoes
and so on.

But that is all generalities - I usually can grow them, but am not an
expert.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren,
University of Cambridge Computing Service,
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England.
Email:
Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679

Si wrote in message
I've been given some red chillies that were dried over 40 years ago; is
there any chance the seeds will germinate if planted?

Seeing as some seeds found in a Pharaoh's Tomb were germinated I don't see
why not, give it a go but don't expect 100% or even 50% germination and it
might take a bit longer than normal.
Could even be a "lost" variety.

If there's an outside chance that they would germinate what would be the
best conditions for them and how would I start them (a good soak first
perhaps?). I have a nice warm airing cupboard if they want it, and a
small,
could-be-heated greenhouse.

Same as for normal chillies except I would expect staggered germination so
perhaps instead ofplanting them as normal spread them on wet kitchen paper
in a tub and place that in the airing cupboard. Check daily and when you see
roots then transfer that seedling(?) to a tray of compost, might need
tweezers.
This should be kept as near 70°F as possible, gradually reducing the temp,
but never going below 50°F. Need as much light as possible.
Keep in a greenhouse as per Tomatoes or plant out early June in a sunny
protected place.

Good luck, keep us informed.
--
Bob

www.pooleygreengrowers.org.uk/ about an Allotment site in
Runnymede fighting for it's existence.

In article ,
Sue & Bob Hobden wrote:

Si wrote in message
I've been given some red chillies that were dried over 40 years ago; is
there any chance the seeds will germinate if planted?

Seeing as some seeds found in a Pharaoh's Tomb were germinated ...

I thought that was a suburban myth, but I could be wrong!

Some seeds are definitely very long lived, and there is evidence of
over a century, but I don't know of any reliable evidence of millennia.
I have no idea whether chilli seeds are long-lived.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren,
University of Cambridge Computing Service,
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England.
Email:
Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679

"Sue & Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...

Si wrote in message
I've been given some red chillies that were dried over 40 years ago; is
there any chance the seeds will germinate if planted?

Seeing as some seeds found in a Pharaoh's Tomb were germinated

!!!
I was excited to get my 40-year-olds!

I don't see
why not, give it a go but don't expect 100% or even 50% germination and it
might take a bit longer than normal.
Could even be a "lost" variety.


Wouldn't that be good? All I know about them is that they were used for a
Geest photo shoot.

If there's an outside chance that they would germinate


Same as for normal chillies except I would expect staggered germination so
perhaps instead ofplanting them as normal spread them on wet kitchen paper
in a tub and place that in the airing cupboard. Check daily and when you
see
roots then transfer that seedling(?) to a tray of compost, might need
tweezers.
This should be kept as near 70°F as possible, gradually reducing the temp,
but never going below 50°F. Need as much light as possible.
Keep in a greenhouse as per Tomatoes or plant out early June in a sunny
protected place.


Printed and filed for slightly warmer times, thank you. When would be a good
time to start them off indoors? About mid-Feb? March? I'm in Ramsgate, Kent,
and it's not often *really* cold outdoors.

Good luck, keep us informed.


Will do.

Si

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Mungo \"Two Sheds\" Toadfoot wrote:

I've been given some red chillies that were dried over 40 years ago; is
there any chance the seeds will germinate if planted?

Well, there is always a chance :-) I have no idea how long they keep,
but it is probably worth a go.

I will! )


If there's an outside chance that they would germinate

Depends on how many you have.

Don't know......*toddles off*......about a hundred or so, I'd say.

If anybody more knowledgable than me (that'll be everybody in here!) would
like to try to grow them too I'll gladly send you some.

Si

Si wrote in message

. When would be a good
time to start them off indoors? About mid-Feb? March? I'm in Ramsgate,
Kent,
and it's not often *really* cold outdoors.


The problem is balancing the temperature with the available light. Even on
the S. coast I would not put chillies out until the end of May at the
earliest, and then only if the weather was warm and looked like staying so.
So you don't want them getting too leggy by then, but you want them as big
as possible, preferably about to flower.
End of March sounds early enough and gives them 2 months to grow indoors
before you plant them out. Pinch them out to make them bushy just like you
would with your summer bedding plants.
We find that once growing they respond well to feeding with Seaweed Extract
every couple of weeks and as much sun as possible.
Actually they make pretty plants with their little white flowers.

--
Bob

www.pooleygreengrowers.org.uk/ about an Allotment site in
Runnymede fighting for it's existence.

"Mungo "Two Sheds" Toadfoot" wrote in message
...

"Sue & Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...

Si wrote in message
I've been given some red chillies that were dried over 40 years ago;
is
snip
Printed and filed for slightly warmer times, thank you. When would be a
good
time to start them off indoors? About mid-Feb? March? I'm in Ramsgate,
Kent,
and it's not often *really* cold outdoors.

Good luck, keep us informed.


Will do.

Si

Dover for the continent, Ramsgate for the incontinent ?
Don't wait another 40 years Mungo ! They'll all be GM by then. -

Regards .......... Paul

"Nick wrote in message
Seeing as some seeds found in a Pharaoh's Tomb were germinated ...

I thought that was a suburban myth, but I could be wrong!


May be Nick but take a look at...

http://www.rbgkew.org.uk/msbp/msbfaq/msb_a12.html

So it's well possible that these chilli seeds would be viable after "only"
40 years, depends on storage conditions etc.

Oh, and Si, as with all things chilli please note that if you touch them
with your fingers wash your hands before touching any part of yourself (or
others) with delicate skin, eyes, lips, etc.
The heat is mainly in the seeds.

--
Bob

www.pooleygreengrowers.org.uk/ about an Allotment site in
Runnymede fighting for it's existence.

"Sue & Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...


Oh, and Si, as with all things chilli please note that if you touch them
with your fingers wash your hands before touching any part of yourself (or
others) with delicate skin, eyes, lips, etc.
The heat is mainly in the seeds.


Oh yes! I was the proposer of uk.food+drink.indian, I know all about chilli
burn!! ;o)

Si

"Paul England" wrote in message
...


Dover for the continent, Ramsgate for the incontinent ?
Don't wait another 40 years Mungo ! They'll all be GM by then. -


Heh! Ramsgate for the rude, the ignorant and the multi-carrier-bagged and
flea-infested perhaps.

I do wonder what kind of chilli they are - I really hope they grow. No-one's
modifying my chillies!

Si

"Sue & Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...

Si wrote in message

. When would be a good
time to start them off indoors? About mid-Feb? March? I'm in Ramsgate,
Kent,
and it's not often *really* cold outdoors.


The problem is balancing the temperature with the available light. Even on
the S. coast I would not put chillies out until the end of May at the
earliest, and then only if the weather was warm and looked like staying
so.
So you don't want them getting too leggy by then, but you want them as big
as possible, preferably about to flower.
End of March sounds early enough and gives them 2 months to grow indoors
before you plant them out. Pinch them out to make them bushy just like you
would with your summer bedding plants.
We find that once growing they respond well to feeding with Seaweed
Extract
every couple of weeks and as much sun as possible.
Actually they make pretty plants with their little white flowers.


Lovely. Thanks again Bob.

In article ,
Sue & Bob Hobden wrote:

"Nick wrote in message
Seeing as some seeds found in a Pharaoh's Tomb were germinated ...

I thought that was a suburban myth, but I could be wrong!

May be Nick but take a look at...

http://www.rbgkew.org.uk/msbp/msbfaq/msb_a12.html

So it's well possible that these chilli seeds would be viable after "only"
40 years, depends on storage conditions etc.

Oh, yes, indeed. That reference confirms my doubts, but certainly
many seeds remain viable for decades even in the soil.

Oh, and Si, as with all things chilli please note that if you touch them
with your fingers wash your hands before touching any part of yourself (or
others) with delicate skin, eyes, lips, etc.
The heat is mainly in the seeds.

It doesn't transfer all that much by touching dry seeds by dry hands,
though people with greasy hands may have more trouble. It is worth
remembering that it is oil-soluble and is NOT removed by washing
with plain water.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren,
University of Cambridge Computing Service,
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England.
Email:
Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679

(Nick Maclaren) wrote in
:

Subject: Ancient chilli peppers
From: (Nick Maclaren)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.gardening

In article ,
Sue & Bob Hobden wrote:

Si wrote in message
I've been given some red chillies that were dried over 40 years ago; is
there any chance the seeds will germinate if planted?

Seeing as some seeds found in a Pharaoh's Tomb were germinated ...

I thought that was a suburban myth, but I could be wrong!

As I was sure I'd been taught that as fact on a reputable museum studies
postgrad course seven years ago or so, I thought that you were wrong, so I
went off to Google and checked.

And learned yet again that you should never take info thrown in as a side
issue by a lecturer as fact (specially when you may have misheard it...)
So thanks for that!

In the process I found this very useful site:

http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/SoilC.../1999/guseptOC
T99.htm#Storage

The important bit from Si's point of view is:

"However, recent studies showed extended longevity of vegetable seeds once
stored (15 to 30 years) in ambient temperatures at Cheyenne, Wyoming, and
are now stored at the National Seed Storage Laboratory at -18oC (0F). For
example, tomato seeds stored for 60 years germinated 82%, pea seeds stored
for 51 years germinated 94%, and pepper seed stored for 51 years germinated
28%. These data suggest that the longevity of seed can be extended if
proper storage conditions are utilized. "

Awesome peas!

Sounds like there is a chance of germination for the 40-year chillis,
assuming low moisture and heat for the storage. I'd guess the moisture
content must have been pretty low or they'd have disintegrated, but I guess
if they were dried somewhere quite warm chances aren't so good.

Also found:
http://newton.dep.anl.gov/natbltn/500-599/nb507.htm
which gives an anecdote about plants germinating from (dated) storage at
the Natural History museum after war-time bomb damage. Which may or may
not be true...

Victoria Clare

"Victoria Clare" wrote in message
.207...

The important bit from Si's point of view is:

"However, recent studies showed extended longevity of vegetable seeds once
stored (15 to 30 years) in ambient temperatures at Cheyenne, Wyoming, and
are now stored at the National Seed Storage Laboratory at -18oC (0F). For
example, tomato seeds stored for 60 years germinated 82%, pea seeds stored
for 51 years germinated 94%, and pepper seed stored for 51 years
germinated
28%. These data suggest that the longevity of seed can be extended if
proper storage conditions are utilized. "

Awesome peas!


That's incredible, isn't it? To think that's there's some sort of life
process going on in there for that length of time - just waiting for a drop
of rain. Amazing!

Sounds like there is a chance of germination for the 40-year chillis,
assuming low moisture and heat for the storage. I'd guess the moisture
content must have been pretty low or they'd have disintegrated, but I
guess
if they were dried somewhere quite warm chances aren't so good.

Well, the chillies themselves were extremely crispy and the seeds look in
good condition, i.e. not disintegrating, so we shall see...

Si

In February last year I sowed 10 chilli seeds from a pod that had been
stored for 5 years in a jar in full light on my south-facing kitchen
windowsill. I had bought the chillis from Sainsbury's and dried them,
I think they were from an African country; they still sell similar
ones, red or green, about 8cm long.

Of all the types of seed I sowed in trays last year (the rest were
commercial annuals, herbs, and veges), they were the only ones that
gave a 100% germination rate (some others got close, like cornflowers).
The resulting chillis, while only about 4cm long, were extremely potent.
The plants went outside in May, and the pods took until October to
turn red. I thinned them down to about 5 pods per plant in the summer.

I didn't do anything special when sowing them, just a tray of cheap
general purpose compost from Homebase in the windowsill, it was an
experiment which I found surprisingly successful.

Daniel
--