I have been sent a clematis article which apparently contains something I
may find interesting! I have tried with a dictionary to translate the
relevant bit but its still pretty much gibberish (my translation not the
German) anyone who would like to have a go its copied below.

Die Diversifolia-Gruppe
C. integrifolia lasst sich leicht mit C. viticella und einigen anderen
Clematis-Arten kreuzen. Die ersten bekannt gewordenen Hybriden 'Eriostemon'
und 'Hendersonii' entstanden bereits um 1835. Sie bahnten vielen weiteren
Sorten den Weg - eine Entwicklung, die bis heute anhalt. Fur die Abkommlinge
aus diesen Paarungen wurde von einigen Autoren die Diversifolia-Gruppe
eingeluhrt.
Im Unterschied zu C. integrifolia ist C. x diversifolia keine botanische
Art, sondern selbst bereits eine Kreuzung zwischen C. integrifolia und C.
viticella. erstmals beschrieben von De Candolle im Jahr 1818. Vermutlich ist
die damals kultivierte Hybride seit langerem nicht mehr vorhanden. Vor
diesem Hintergrund ist es verlockend, die hybrid-Gruppe, von der wesentliche
Sorten bereits in Gartenpraxis" Nr. 7/2004 vorgestellt wurden, von den
eigentlichen C. integrifolia zu trennen. Wir folgen diesem Konzept, um den
darzustellenden Bereich einzugrenzen.
Dennoch bleibt das Einordnen von Sorten in die eine oder andere Gruppe, ohne
deren genetische Zusammensetzung genau zu kennen, gewagt. Fest stehen nur
die visuell erfassbaren Merkmale von C. integrifolia: Wuchshohe etwa 80 cm,
Ungeteilte Blatter, glockenformige Bluten von 3 bis 5 cm Durchmesser.
Der andere Partner, C. viticella, besitzt nur angedeutet glockenformige bis
weit geoffnete oder schalenformige Bluten, die mit 4 bis 10 cm Durchmesser
deutlich grober als C. integrifolia sind, dazu einfach bis doppelt
gefiederte Blatter, mit deren Hilfe das Ranken mbglich ist in Hohen von 3
bis 5 m. Der Stangelgrund ist verholzt.
Abkommiinge, die dem visuellen Eindruck nach dem Viticella-Elternteil mehr
entsprechen, sollten in die Diversifolia Gruppe eingeordnet werden.

My text scanner struggled with this almost as much as me so my apoligies for
mistakes!
--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)

Charlie Pridham wrote:
:: I have been sent a clematis article which apparently contains
:: something I may find interesting! I have tried with a dictionary
:: to translate the relevant bit but its still pretty much gibberish
:: (my translation not the German) anyone who would like to have a go
:: its copied below.
::
:: Die Diversifolia-Gruppe
:: C. integrifolia lasst sich leicht mit C. viticella und einigen
:: anderen Clematis-Arten kreuzen. Die ersten bekannt gewordenen
:: Hybriden 'Eriostemon' und 'Hendersonii' entstanden bereits um
:: 1835. Sie bahnten vielen weiteren Sorten den Weg - eine
:: Entwicklung, die bis heute anhalt. Fur die Abkommlinge aus diesen
:: Paarungen wurde von einigen Autoren die Diversifolia-Gruppe
:: eingeluhrt.
:: Im Unterschied zu C. integrifolia ist C. x diversifolia keine
:: botanische Art, sondern selbst bereits eine Kreuzung zwischen C.
:: integrifolia und C. viticella. erstmals beschrieben von De
:: Candolle im Jahr 1818. Vermutlich ist die damals kultivierte
:: Hybride seit langerem nicht mehr vorhanden. Vor diesem Hintergrund
:: ist es verlockend, die hybrid-Gruppe, von der wesentliche Sorten
:: bereits in Gartenpraxis" Nr. 7/2004 vorgestellt wurden, von den
:: eigentlichen C. integrifolia zu trennen. Wir folgen diesem
:: Konzept, um den darzustellenden Bereich einzugrenzen.
:: Dennoch bleibt das Einordnen von Sorten in die eine oder andere
:: Gruppe, ohne deren genetische Zusammensetzung genau zu kennen,
:: gewagt. Fest stehen nur die visuell erfassbaren Merkmale von C.
:: integrifolia: Wuchshohe etwa 80 cm, Ungeteilte Blatter,
:: glockenformige Bluten von 3 bis 5 cm Durchmesser.
:: Der andere Partner, C. viticella, besitzt nur angedeutet
:: glockenformige bis weit geoffnete oder schalenformige Bluten, die
:: mit 4 bis 10 cm Durchmesser deutlich grober als C. integrifolia
:: sind, dazu einfach bis doppelt gefiederte Blatter, mit deren Hilfe
:: das Ranken mbglich ist in Hohen von 3 bis 5 m. Der Stangelgrund
:: ist verholzt.
:: Abkommiinge, die dem visuellen Eindruck nach dem
:: Viticella-Elternteil mehr entsprechen, sollten in die Diversifolia
:: Gruppe eingeordnet werden.
::
:: My text scanner struggled with this almost as much as me so my
:: apoligies for mistakes!

The Diversifolia group of C integrifolia let yourself easily with C
viticella and some other Clematis kinds cross. Become hybrid ' Eriostemon '
and ' Hendersonii ' developed already admits first around 1835. They cleared
the way for many further sorts - a development, to today notion. Fur the
Abkommlinge from these mating was eingeluhrt by some authors the
Diversifolia group.
In contrast to C integrifolia C x is not diversifolia botanische kind, but
even already a crossing between C integrifolia and C viticella. for the
first time described from De Candolle in the year 1818. Probably the hybrid
cultivated at that time is no longer present since for a long time rem.
Enticing before this background it is, the group of hybrid, from substantial
sorts already in garden practice the "NR. 7/2004 were introduced to separate
from actual C integrifolia. We follow this concept, in order to limit the
range which can be explained.
Nevertheless remains arranging sorts in or other group, without knowing
their genetic composition exactly, daringly. Only the visually detectable
characteristics of C stand firmly integrifolia: Stature-high about 80 cm,
Undivided Blatter, glockenformige bleeding from 3 to 5 cm diameters. The
other partner, C viticella, possesses only suggested glockenformige to or
schalenformige bleeding geoffnete far, which is clearly rougher with 4 to 10
cm diameters than C integrifolia, in addition simply to doubles pinnated
Blatter, with their assistance climbing is mbglich in high ones from 3 to 5
m. The Stangelgrund is fells trees. Abkommiinge, which correspond to the
visual impression after the Viticella parents more, should be arranged in
the Diversifolia group.
Not much help but it's the best altavista can do.
http://world.altavista.com/tr

The diversifolia's

C.integrifolia crosses easely with C.viticella and some other sorts.
The first known hybrids 'Eriostemon'and 'Hendersonii' are dated around
1835. They gave way to many other sorts: a development still going on.
Some authors counted the offspring from these couplings into the
diversifolia-group.
Contrary to C.integrifolia, C. x diversifolia is no species, but in
itself a cross between C.integrifolia and C.viticella, first accounted
for by De Canolle in 1818. Probably the then cultivated hybrid isn't
around for a long time now.
Seen this, it's tempting to separate the group of hybrids -from wich
serious sorts were presented in Gartenpraxis nr.7/2004- from the
original C.integrifolia. We follow this concept, so fencing in the
consequental numbers. Still, it's risky to bring sorts under this or
that group, without an exact knowledge of their genetic dates. Notable
are just the visual marks of C.integrifolia: height about 80 cm.,
undivided leaves, bell-shaped flowers from 3 to 5 cm in diameter.
The other partner, C.viticella, just has the indicated bell-shaped to
wide-open or plate-formed flowers, with 4 to 10 cm in diametre clearly
bigger as C.integrifolia, also having bi-fethered leaves helping the
shoots to climb to 3 to 5 metres. The base of the shoots is woody.
Offspring that, on sight, has more elements of the
viticella-parentage, should be ordered into the diversifolia-group.

My two euro-cents, including misspelllings ;-)
Annet









"Phil L" schreef:

Charlie Pridham wrote:
:: I have been sent a clematis article which apparently contains
:: something I may find interesting! I have tried with a dictionary
:: to translate the relevant bit but its still pretty much gibberish
:: (my translation not the German) anyone who would like to have a go
:: its copied below.
::
:: Die Diversifolia-Gruppe
:: C. integrifolia lasst sich leicht mit C. viticella und einigen
:: anderen Clematis-Arten kreuzen. Die ersten bekannt gewordenen
:: Hybriden 'Eriostemon' und 'Hendersonii' entstanden bereits um
:: 1835. Sie bahnten vielen weiteren Sorten den Weg - eine
:: Entwicklung, die bis heute anhalt. Fur die Abkommlinge aus diesen
:: Paarungen wurde von einigen Autoren die Diversifolia-Gruppe
:: eingeluhrt.
:: Im Unterschied zu C. integrifolia ist C. x diversifolia keine
:: botanische Art, sondern selbst bereits eine Kreuzung zwischen C.
:: integrifolia und C. viticella. erstmals beschrieben von De
:: Candolle im Jahr 1818. Vermutlich ist die damals kultivierte
:: Hybride seit langerem nicht mehr vorhanden. Vor diesem Hintergrund
:: ist es verlockend, die hybrid-Gruppe, von der wesentliche Sorten
:: bereits in Gartenpraxis" Nr. 7/2004 vorgestellt wurden, von den
:: eigentlichen C. integrifolia zu trennen. Wir folgen diesem
:: Konzept, um den darzustellenden Bereich einzugrenzen.
:: Dennoch bleibt das Einordnen von Sorten in die eine oder andere
:: Gruppe, ohne deren genetische Zusammensetzung genau zu kennen,
:: gewagt. Fest stehen nur die visuell erfassbaren Merkmale von C.
:: integrifolia: Wuchshohe etwa 80 cm, Ungeteilte Blatter,
:: glockenformige Bluten von 3 bis 5 cm Durchmesser.
:: Der andere Partner, C. viticella, besitzt nur angedeutet
:: glockenformige bis weit geoffnete oder schalenformige Bluten, die
:: mit 4 bis 10 cm Durchmesser deutlich grober als C. integrifolia
:: sind, dazu einfach bis doppelt gefiederte Blatter, mit deren Hilfe
:: das Ranken mbglich ist in Hohen von 3 bis 5 m. Der Stangelgrund
:: ist verholzt.
:: Abkommiinge, die dem visuellen Eindruck nach dem
:: Viticella-Elternteil mehr entsprechen, sollten in die Diversifolia
:: Gruppe eingeordnet werden.
::
:: My text scanner struggled with this almost as much as me so my
:: apoligies for mistakes!

The Diversifolia group of C integrifolia let yourself easily with C
viticella and some other Clematis kinds cross. Become hybrid ' Eriostemon '
and ' Hendersonii ' developed already admits first around 1835. They cleared
the way for many further sorts - a development, to today notion. Fur the
Abkommlinge from these mating was eingeluhrt by some authors the
Diversifolia group.
In contrast to C integrifolia C x is not diversifolia botanische kind, but
even already a crossing between C integrifolia and C viticella. for the
first time described from De Candolle in the year 1818. Probably the hybrid
cultivated at that time is no longer present since for a long time rem.
Enticing before this background it is, the group of hybrid, from substantial
sorts already in garden practice the "NR. 7/2004 were introduced to separate
from actual C integrifolia. We follow this concept, in order to limit the
range which can be explained.
Nevertheless remains arranging sorts in or other group, without knowing
their genetic composition exactly, daringly. Only the visually detectable
characteristics of C stand firmly integrifolia: Stature-high about 80 cm,
Undivided Blatter, glockenformige bleeding from 3 to 5 cm diameters. The
other partner, C viticella, possesses only suggested glockenformige to or
schalenformige bleeding geoffnete far, which is clearly rougher with 4 to 10
cm diameters than C integrifolia, in addition simply to doubles pinnated
Blatter, with their assistance climbing is mbglich in high ones from 3 to 5
m. The Stangelgrund is fells trees. Abkommiinge, which correspond to the
visual impression after the Viticella parents more, should be arranged in
the Diversifolia group.
Not much help but it's the best altavista can do.
http://world.altavista.com/tr

"Phil L" wrote in message
. ..

The Diversifolia group of C integrifolia let yourself easily with C
viticella and some other Clematis kinds cross. Become hybrid ' Eriostemon
'
and ' Hendersonii ' developed already admits first around 1835. They
cleared
the way for many further sorts - a development, to today notion. Fur the
Abkommlinge from these mating was eingeluhrt by some authors the
Diversifolia group.
In contrast to C integrifolia C x is not diversifolia botanische kind, but
even already a crossing between C integrifolia and C viticella. for the
first time described from De Candolle in the year 1818. Probably the
hybrid
cultivated at that time is no longer present since for a long time rem.
Enticing before this background it is, the group of hybrid, from
substantial
sorts already in garden practice the "NR. 7/2004 were introduced to
separate
from actual C integrifolia. We follow this concept, in order to limit the
range which can be explained.
Nevertheless remains arranging sorts in or other group, without knowing
their genetic composition exactly, daringly. Only the visually detectable
characteristics of C stand firmly integrifolia: Stature-high about 80 cm,
Undivided Blatter, glockenformige bleeding from 3 to 5 cm diameters. The
other partner, C viticella, possesses only suggested glockenformige to or
schalenformige bleeding geoffnete far, which is clearly rougher with 4 to
10
cm diameters than C integrifolia, in addition simply to doubles pinnated
Blatter, with their assistance climbing is mbglich in high ones from 3 to
5
m. The Stangelgrund is fells trees. Abkommiinge, which correspond to the
visual impression after the Viticella parents more, should be arranged in
the Diversifolia group.
Not much help but it's the best altavista can do.
http://world.altavista.com/tr


Thanks for that, its a bit better than me and the dictionary, but still away
off making total sense, Annet appears to have cracked it :~)

--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)

"annet planten" wrote in message
...
The diversifolia's

C.integrifolia crosses easely with C.viticella and some other sorts.
The first known hybrids 'Eriostemon'and 'Hendersonii' are dated around
1835. They gave way to many other sorts: a development still going on.
Some authors counted the offspring from these couplings into the
diversifolia-group.
Contrary to C.integrifolia, C. x diversifolia is no species, but in
itself a cross between C.integrifolia and C.viticella, first accounted
for by De Canolle in 1818. Probably the then cultivated hybrid isn't
around for a long time now.
Seen this, it's tempting to separate the group of hybrids -from wich
serious sorts were presented in Gartenpraxis nr.7/2004- from the
original C.integrifolia. We follow this concept, so fencing in the
consequental numbers. Still, it's risky to bring sorts under this or
that group, without an exact knowledge of their genetic dates. Notable
are just the visual marks of C.integrifolia: height about 80 cm.,
undivided leaves, bell-shaped flowers from 3 to 5 cm in diameter.
The other partner, C.viticella, just has the indicated bell-shaped to
wide-open or plate-formed flowers, with 4 to 10 cm in diametre clearly
bigger as C.integrifolia, also having bi-fethered leaves helping the
shoots to climb to 3 to 5 metres. The base of the shoots is woody.
Offspring that, on sight, has more elements of the
viticella-parentage, should be ordered into the diversifolia-group.

My two euro-cents, including misspelllings ;-)
Annet

Many thanks it now makes sense, although why I was sent it I still don't
know as it says nothing new! To think I used to be quite hard on my daughter
when she complained about having to learn German, I certainly had no idea it
was as complicated, but then I never really mastered English properly :~)

--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)

In article , Charlie
Pridham writes

Many thanks it now makes sense, although why I was sent it I still don't
know as it says nothing new! To think I used to be quite hard on my daughter
when she complained about having to learn German, I certainly had no idea it
was as complicated, but then I never really mastered English properly :~)



Well it's enough for us that you've mastered gardening properly Charlie!



Janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk