Is this generally held to be a problem? They seem to live under it rather
than in it, and I only see them when my terrier decides to stir them up for
fun. Compost is about 30m from the house.
Nat

Nat wrote in message
...
Is this generally held to be a problem? They seem to live under it rather
than in it, and I only see them when my terrier decides to stir them up
for
fun. Compost is about 30m from the house.
Nat

Doesn't rat urine transmit Weill's disease? This can be contracted through
cuts and broken skin, although I can't remember what it does, only that it's
nasty.



Liz

"Nat" wrote in message
...
Is this generally held to be a problem? They seem to live under it
rather
than in it, and I only see them when my terrier decides to stir them
up for
fun. Compost is about 30m from the house.
Nat

I suspect we've got one too. A small hole appeared in the soil next to
the bin, re-appeared after I filled it in. Bit big for a mouse, too
small for a hedgehog.

Will rats eat slugs?

In article ,
"cpemma" writes:
| "Nat" wrote in message
| ...
| Is this generally held to be a problem? They seem to live under it
| rather
| than in it, and I only see them when my terrier decides to stir them
| up for
| fun. Compost is about 30m from the house.
| Nat
|
| I suspect we've got one too. A small hole appeared in the soil next to
| the bin, re-appeared after I filled it in. Bit big for a mouse, too
| small for a hedgehog.
|
| Will rats eat slugs?

Yes, but the concerns about disease are more serious. It is worth
getting them dealt with - despite the difficulties placed in our
way by Whitehall.

They are typically attracted by the shelter and the worms, and not
what is put on the compost, so pretty well the only effective ways
are turning the heap over and poison.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren,
University of Cambridge Computing Service,
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England.
Email:
Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679

(Nick Maclaren) wrote in
:

In article ,
"cpemma" writes:
| "Nat" wrote in message
| ...
| Is this generally held to be a problem? They seem to live under it
| rather than in it, and I only see them when my terrier decides to
| stir them up for fun.
|
| I suspect we've got one too. A small hole appeared in the soil next to
| the bin, re-appeared after I filled it in. Bit big for a mouse, too
| small for a hedgehog.

They are typically attracted by the shelter and the worms, and not
what is put on the compost, so pretty well the only effective ways
are turning the heap over and poison.

.... and poison is by no means reliable. My rat totally ignored all the
bait put down by the council Rat Man. Luckily (for us, at least), she
decided to move on of her own accord after a while.

They are typically attracted by the shelter and the worms, and not
what is put on the compost, so pretty well the only effective ways
are turning the heap over and poison.

According to the ratcatcher (Rodent Disposal Operative) from my local
Council rats are very keen on apple and pear skins so when dealing with an
infestation in my compost heap he requested these be disposed of elsewhere.
He also recommended ceasing putting nuts and seeds out for the birds. Brown
rats (Rattus norvigicus) are natural omnivores where a preference for seeds
or grains. One of the main reasons for their success is their adaptability
to live off what foods are available. The much rarer black rat (rattus
rattus) is also an omnivore but tends to eat more vegetable matter. Rats
often carry the spirochete responsible for Weils Disease a.k.a leptospirosis
that is a serious, and indeed potentially fatal condition that is excreted
in the urine.

The bottom line is that rats pose a serious threat to human health and this
is why many councils will provide eradication services free of charge.

OnMon, 27 Jan 2003 22:54:35 -0000, "Liz & Andy"
perspired gently and
wrote:


Nat wrote in message
...
Is this generally held to be a problem? They seem to live under it rather
than in it, and I only see them when my terrier decides to stir them up
for
fun. Compost is about 30m from the house.
Nat

Doesn't rat urine transmit Weill's disease? This can be contracted through
cuts and broken skin, although I can't remember what it does, only that it's
nasty.
Liz

I can say from personal experience it makes you feel pretty ill.
Before I was eventually carted off to hospital I was fully
understanding of the meaning "going backwards" in life rather than
forwards.


- - - -
Mike Peters




Drop the DROPME to reply by Email

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

In article ,
"cpemma" writes:
| "Nat" wrote in message
| ...
| Is this generally held to be a problem? They seem to live under it
| rather
| than in it, and I only see them when my terrier decides to stir them
| up for
| fun. Compost is about 30m from the house.
| Nat
|
| I suspect we've got one too. A small hole appeared in the soil next to
| the bin, re-appeared after I filled it in. Bit big for a mouse, too
| small for a hedgehog.
|
| Will rats eat slugs?

Yes, but the concerns about disease are more serious. It is worth
getting them dealt with - despite the difficulties placed in our
way by Whitehall.

They are typically attracted by the shelter and the worms, and not
what is put on the compost, so pretty well the only effective ways
are turning the heap over and poison.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren,
University of Cambridge Computing Service,
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QH, England.
Email:
Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679

I would love to know exactly how common Weill's disease is, I mean how many
cases are there a year. We have rats in our compost heap and we have Red
Kites constantly hovering overhead, since the red kites are opportunistic
carrion feeders more than hunters I suspect they'd like nothing more than to
pick up a nicely poisoned rat, which is the main reason I have stopped using
them.

Also since rats are so prevalent having poisoned off the occupants in the
past they are never more than a couple of weeks away from a new set moving
in. They are there primarily because of the huge number of worms in the
compost, which is an excellent source of food for them.

Generally speaking they'll not be much bother to you, if you can put up with
the idea of them being around.

I think regularly turning the heap, like once a week should be enough to
convince them to take up house elsewhere, then they'll move in under your
shed, and live off any old garbage you leave in there, what's the old stats
"You're never more than 10 feet from a rat in the UK".

Duncan

In message , Druss
writes

Re rats in the compost

Yes, but the concerns about disease are more serious.

I would love to know exactly how common Weill's disease is, I mean how many
cases are there a year.

Not many - though of course it can be fatal..

I've seen figures quoted of 8 cases per year in the UK. In reality I
would there are other cases where the symptoms aren't so bad an it's
never realised that the person has the disease.

The major risks of infection are from water contaminated with the
bacteria (or from contact with the urine), the bacteria dies quickly in
dry conditions. I'm not clear on how well it survives in the
soil/compost however - it would seem from what I've read that this is
much less of a risk, the main concern does seem to be directed at those
coming in to contact with the water.

http://www.caving.org.uk/wdic/

Seems to have good info.
--
Chris French and Helen Johnson, Leeds
urg Suppliers and References FAQ:
http://www.familyfrench.co.uk/garden/urgfaq/index.html

"Druss" wrote in message
...
"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

I would love to know exactly how common Weill's disease is,

Very rare, only a real danger to people like cavers and sewer workers.

We have rats in our compost heap and we have Red
Kites constantly hovering overhead, since the red kites are opportunistic
carrion feeders more than hunters I suspect they'd like nothing more than
to
pick up a nicely poisoned rat, which is the main reason I have stopped
using
them.

Good for you.

Also since rats are so prevalent having poisoned off the occupants in the
past they are never more than a couple of weeks away from a new set moving
in. They are there primarily because of the huge number of worms in the
compost, which is an excellent source of food for them.

Rats hate a vacuum. If you kill of rats more will move in.

Generally speaking they'll not be much bother to you, if you can put up
with
the idea of them being around.

Quite.

I think regularly turning the heap, like once a week should be enough to
convince them to take up house elsewhere, then they'll move in under your
shed, and live off any old garbage you leave in there, what's the old
stats
"You're never more than 10 feet from a rat in the UK".

Absolutely right. There's far too much hysteria about them. Everywhere there
are rats, mice, moth, fleas, flies, birds, fox and all sorts of other things
which are perceived dangers to Man. Man is probably the worst offender
against the Earth.

Mary

Duncan

I would love to know exactly how common Weill's disease is,

Very rare, only a real danger to people like cavers and sewer workers.

It is also a danger to anyone who comes into contact with water features
such as rivers, canals, docks, ponds, etc. I used to work on the river
Thames and my employer's Chief Medical Officer provided me (and my
colleagues) with a card (which I had to carry with me) warning of the
dangers of leptospirosis. I have also known of a couple of deaths from
leptospirosis, contracted after contact with water in the Thames (this is
what brought about the card).

There is also a danger to farm workers as leptospirosis is known to be
carried in some livestock. In fact it is believed that this is where
leptospirosis started and was then caught by rats who carried it into the
towns and cities.

Yes, it is very rare but the real danger is to think "it will never happen
to me". Leptospirosis kills (through liver and kidney damage) when
untreated. A simple blood test will identify it and doctors tell me it
responds extremely well to antibiotics.

In other words, awareness of leptospirosis can save a life. Yes, it may only
be one life but that life may be you or someone close to you. If you may
have been contaminated (through ingestion or cut in the skin) and develop
flu-like symptoms, check with your doctor before retiring to bed.

Regards

Howard Neil

In article , newspost-
says...
In message , Druss
writes

Re rats in the compost

Yes, but the concerns about disease are more serious.

I would love to know exactly how common Weill's disease is, I mean how many
cases are there a year.

Not many - though of course it can be fatal..

I've seen figures quoted of 8 cases per year in the UK. In reality I
would there are other cases where the symptoms aren't so bad an it's
never realised that the person has the disease.

Defra seems a good source.

This is the relevant piece of the 2000 report.

Twenty five infections were caused by L.icterohaemorrhagiae. Two
patients died in 2000, both infections were due to L.
icterohaemorrhagiae.

It took a while to extract the specific figures from all of the other
Leptospirosis infections.

So the fatality rate for infections is 4%.

Warwick

"Howard Neil" h.neil@whichREMOVE TO REPLY.net wrote
It is also a danger to anyone who comes into contact with water features
such as rivers, canals, docks, ponds, etc.
snip info

I read somewhere that the famous tv scene of Colin Firth as Mr Darcy diving
into a lake was filmed using a stunt double because of the risk of Weil's.
They can't insure the actors apparently.

Sue

In article , Mary Fisher
writes

"Druss" wrote in message
...
"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

I would love to know exactly how common Weill's disease is,

Very rare, only a real danger to people like cavers and sewer workers.

Not that much of a danger for cavers either. It's at the level of 'you
should be aware of this possibility' - in other words, cover any open
wounds, showers asap afterwards, and see the doctor if you get flu like
symptoms a fortnight later. None of the cavers I know (most of whom cave
a lot more than I do) have had it, AFAIK.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/garden/

I would love to know exactly how common Weill's disease is,

Very rare, only a real danger to people like cavers and sewer workers.

Not that much of a danger for cavers either. It's at the level of 'you
should be aware of this possibility' - in other words, cover any open
wounds, showers asap afterwards, and see the doctor if you get flu like
symptoms a fortnight later. None of the cavers I know (most of whom cave
a lot more than I do) have had it, AFAIK.

Quite.

Mary
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/garden/