0tterbot wrote:
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
...
I don't think that lack of rain does help to stop frosts. That
unbelieveable frost we got in October was right in a very dry time

that's a good point. i suppose i just don't grasp frost :-)

i think that makes sense. the idea being, the frost will more likely
have to
travel along the swale & the hedge without being able to get into
the veggie
patch so much?
Yes. It will lie in the swale in a frost pocket on the uphill side of
the hedge and not continue to drain down into the veg patch.

we've got lavender out the wazoo, so i think i'm going to plant a lavender
hedge! nothing ventured, nothing gained! if it doesn't help, i'll still have
a nice hedge. unless it dies, of course ;-)

The shape. But when you mention rocks, I wonder if you're thinking of
the permie mandala beds???

noooooo!

The kidney shaped permie beds I thought you meant were the ones with
the taller plants on the outer edge of the curve with the lower
growing plants on the inner sider of the curves. I think they call
them sun traps?????????? And the ones I've seen pics of didn't ahve
any rocks whereas the mandala beds all did.

the ones i saw in a book (one of those permie books i hated & bitched about
later ;-) were kidney shaped, with the short curve facing north, and the
long curve on the south side. then you would build up the south side so the
sun hits the rocks, so the whole bed was a warm little north-facing pocket.
it's a cool idea! (or rather, a warm one).

Not that it matters
either way - I have enough problems watering with low pressure without
adding to it. BTW, do you have low pressure because Green Harvest
seel those wonderful low pressure 'rattle" top sprinklers which are
wonderful for low pressure country systems - I've got about a dozen
and swear by them..

the only pressure we get is from gravity, so that's... er, it's not bad, but
it's not like in town, but it's definitely ok. i don't have what i'd
consider "water pressure problems" though. i'll have a look at your link in
a minute! do you water veg with sprinklers? i try to water more directly
onto the soil.

But you can plant to suit the season and the position with walls or
just move the planting out from the wall as needed. I put up and take
down walls as I find they work or don't. Just watch out for Joe
Blakes - rotten sodding things, they love rocks with chinks in them.
They also love to hide down the side of old fence posts that are
loose. I've had my husband go round and fill in all the sides of the
ones round the garden this year. He has only just come back from a
neighbour's (who he respects) and tell me what a good idea it was to
fill them in. He didn't say that at the time I insisted he do it :-))

what are joe blakes?
thanks for the help.
kylie


Joe Blakes rhymes with adders, actually seriously it rhymes with SNAKES

g'day kylie,

yes observing will help you decide your best action with all
suggestions in the melting pot.

black forst is where you don't see frost but the plants get burnt
anyway we used to get it on occassion it would only present in small
patches i would suggest that those spots are where the air was the
coldest.

that is why in the end i covered things up and didn't bother geting
out of bed to hose off teh white frost because it only took 1 black
frost and that made all your efforts and especially water wasted.

i would use hay/straw from bales to cover plants with over night and
remove it the next day i did this with frost sensative trees like
pawpaws and it saved the main crown from damage.

On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 08:59:50 GMT, "0tterbot" wrote:

"gardenlen" wrote in message
.. .
snipped
With peace and brightest of blessings,

len

--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."

http://www.lensgarden.com.au/

"0tterbot" wrote in message
...
"meeee" wrote in message
...
This is something I *can* help with...frost does settle in low areas, and
the description of your garden makes me think it will be badly affected,
the lower spots more so. If you can't move it, put more sensitive things
higher up the slope, and a hessian sack/old sheet/old blanket can be used
to protect new growth.

i was doing that for weeks & weeks while the last frosts (or so i thought
;-) carried on. it does work. (note to self, get more covers ;-)

Stone walls can be used to store heat during the day,
and reflect heat at night. If you put a stone wall at the lower end of
the slope, it will give those plants some relief.

i was thinking about this last night. and then i thought - would that not
create a frost pocket at the bottom of the garden. then i stayed awake
feeling confused :-) it would presumably work if the stone got warm
enough. also, i planted a kiwi (originally 2, but the male died) on that
fence. my thinking at the time was it would be easy to throw hessian over
the plant & fence every night. now i'm wondering if i shouldn't just move
it. (?)

Also try and make sure your
garden bed isn't in shade during the winter afternoons. Anyway, just some
tips Look for frost friendly plants as well, frost will improve plants
like that.

i have been!! g i got one lovely one (decorative, not veg) the other
week that i think isn't. just to give myself something to fuss & obsess
about. i'm looking forward to the winter veg which won't give me any
worries, i must say. it's the "summer" things which suffer when it won't
bloody stop frosting that is driving me mad!

thanks!
kylie


Lol sounds like you're having fun anyway. I think the others had better
advice...but one thing I do know is that if your tomato plants get bitten
and cark it, pull them out by the roots and hang them upside down; you'll
get most of your green tomatoes ripening that way. I had tomatoes half way
through winter with this trick!!

"Jonno" writes:
The idea of spraying the leaves with water, allows the plants to get to
temperature stage which then wont burst the cells.
After they do and have recovered the temperature equalises with air
temperature, which happens at a much slower rate, so no burst cells.
The plant should recover fully..

This means that you can't leave your garden hose lying across the ground
ready for use, or it will be frozen (and maybe the water in it, too) just
when you need it.

I recall years ago seeing a commercial orange farmer in a frost-prone
area had what looked like large aeroplane engines + propeller mounted
up high in his orchard, and they'd turn them on during frosty nights
at the critical stage in the fruit's development to move the air around
over the trees.

You never get a frost on windy nights. Or hire a helicopter to hover over
your precious tomatoes.
--
John Savage (my news address is not valid for email)

John Savage wrote:
"Jonno" writes:
The idea of spraying the leaves with water, allows the plants to get to
temperature stage which then wont burst the cells.
After they do and have recovered the temperature equalises with air
temperature, which happens at a much slower rate, so no burst cells.
The plant should recover fully..

This means that you can't leave your garden hose lying across the ground
ready for use, or it will be frozen (and maybe the water in it, too) just
when you need it.

I recall years ago seeing a commercial orange farmer in a frost-prone
area had what looked like large aeroplane engines + propeller mounted
up high in his orchard, and they'd turn them on during frosty nights
at the critical stage in the fruit's development to move the air around
over the trees.

You never get a frost on windy nights. Or hire a helicopter to hover over
your precious tomatoes.

I know a few model helicopter enthusiasts who may be able to save a few
dollars here.. (grin!)

A bit noisy farm1

"0tterbot" wrote in message
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message

Yes. It will lie in the swale in a frost pocket on the uphill
side of
the hedge and not continue to drain down into the veg patch.

we've got lavender out the wazoo, so i think i'm going to plant a
lavender
hedge! nothing ventured, nothing gained! if it doesn't help, i'll
still have
a nice hedge. unless it dies, of course ;-)

Don't let it get leggy - you need to growth to be right to the ground
to stop frost drainage at the base of the plant.

The kidney shaped permie beds I thought you meant were the ones
with
the taller plants on the outer edge of the curve with the lower
growing plants on the inner sider of the curves. I think they
call
them sun traps?????????? And the ones I've seen pics of didn't
ahve
any rocks whereas the mandala beds all did.

the ones i saw in a book (one of those permie books i hated &
bitched about
later ;-) were kidney shaped, with the short curve facing north, and
the
long curve on the south side. then you would build up the south side
so the
sun hits the rocks, so the whole bed was a warm little north-facing
pocket.
it's a cool idea! (or rather, a warm one).

Ah. A variation on the theme.

Not that it matters
either way - I have enough problems watering with low pressure
without
adding to it. BTW, do you have low pressure because Green Harvest
seel those wonderful low pressure 'rattle" top sprinklers which
are
wonderful for low pressure country systems - I've got about a
dozen
and swear by them..

the only pressure we get is from gravity, so that's... er, it's not
bad, but
it's not like in town, but it's definitely ok. i don't have what i'd
consider "water pressure problems" though. i'll have a look at your
link in
a minute! do you water veg with sprinklers? i try to water more
directly
onto the soil.

A mix depending on location - some fixed sprinklers, some moveable
sprinklers and some I hand water with a hose. I understand that drip
irrigation is now recommended as most water efficient but I have habit
of putting forks through lines and they wouldn't work in my veg bed
situation. I mulch once the soil warms up (and I'm deadly with a fork
for hidden lines under mulch - a guaranteed plastic line detector am
I).

what are joe blakes?

Snakes.

thanks for the help.

You're welcome.

"0tterbot" wrote in message
"gardenlen" wrote in message


so in short trees and covers i reckon, you may need a grow tunnel
so
you have the summer crops long enough?

i'm going to make some of those (it's on my exceedingly long to-do
list).
ideally i'd have had them for this spring, but i was in such a hurry
i just
did the garden anyway without any sort of cloches or anything, &
then felt
sad about how much it would have helped. i'm also getting less naive
about
conditions here, too ;-)

Have a look at Len's strawbale beds. Straw is a very useful medium
but expensive at the moment - sigh.

It's worth buying some straw in Autumn and aging it (by that I mean
put it on the ground and then turn it regularly to age it - fresh
straw can be antagonistic to new plant growth so just turn each face
to the earth over about a 4 month period - it rots a bit but not
enough to destroy it). Once its aged over winter set out 3 bales
facing north in a U shape in late winter over prepared ground and put
2 old windows on the northern side - one on the top of the bales and
the other leaning onto the open part of the U. The sun will warm it
up and give you an early planting spot - good for cucurbitszucchini
etc as by the time the frosts are over they are big enough to power
on.

"meeee" wrote in message
...
i have been!! g i got one lovely one (decorative, not veg) the other
week that i think isn't. just to give myself something to fuss & obsess
about. i'm looking forward to the winter veg which won't give me any
worries, i must say. it's the "summer" things which suffer when it won't
bloody stop frosting that is driving me mad!

thanks!
kylie


Lol sounds like you're having fun anyway. I think the others had better
advice...but one thing I do know is that if your tomato plants get bitten
and cark it, pull them out by the roots and hang them upside down; you'll
get most of your green tomatoes ripening that way. I had tomatoes half way
through winter with this trick!!

thank you! that's a good tip. i suspect there'll be a lot of hanging
tomatoes around here this autumn :-) (they're just going so sloooooow!)
kylie

"Jonno" wrote in message
...
what are joe blakes?
thanks for the help.
kylie
Joe Blakes rhymes with adders, actually seriously it rhymes with SNAKES

oh! of course.

i'm not at all scared of snakes (although i probably should be) but one fun
activity to do with my dh is to loudly say "snake!" while we're walking
through the bush. my, it makes him leap. i have to watch what i say now,
otherwise he's in a permanent state of nervous exhaustion just thinking
about it. it would be sad if it weren't so funny :-)
kylie who clearly needs a total attitude readjustment.

"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
...

Don't let it get leggy - you need to growth to be right to the ground
to stop frost drainage at the base of the plant.

tch! MY lavenders aren't leggy. hmf! g actually what made me think it's a
great idea is the kind i have most of is very bushy anyway, it looks right.

a minute! do you water veg with sprinklers? i try to water more
directly
onto the soil.

A mix depending on location - some fixed sprinklers, some moveable
sprinklers and some I hand water with a hose. I understand that drip
irrigation is now recommended as most water efficient but I have habit
of putting forks through lines and they wouldn't work in my veg bed
situation. I mulch once the soil warms up (and I'm deadly with a fork
for hidden lines under mulch - a guaranteed plastic line detector am
I).

heh. i am thinking there might be pragmatic problems with putting in a drip
system for the veg. (not least, having to rearrange all the sticking-out
bits every time some new formation of soemthing-or-other went in!?) otoh, i
don't want water spraying between beds or anything, either. otoh again,
doing it all by hand with a hose takes an exasperatingly long time some
days. by this point i've used up too many hands. i'll think about it more.
ta again.
kylie

"gardenlen" wrote in message
...
g'day kylie,

yes observing will help you decide your best action with all
suggestions in the melting pot.

black forst is where you don't see frost but the plants get burnt
anyway we used to get it on occassion it would only present in small
patches i would suggest that those spots are where the air was the
coldest.

hm.

that is why in the end i covered things up and didn't bother geting
out of bed to hose off teh white frost because it only took 1 black
frost and that made all your efforts and especially water wasted.

i would use hay/straw from bales to cover plants with over night and
remove it the next day i did this with frost sensative trees like
pawpaws and it saved the main crown from damage.

did you cover thickly? was it a hassle? when i have an asparagus bed ( the
plants are only a few weeks old, and very tiny and cute ;-) i was under the
impression you do this, but cut the plants down first & then just spread the
straw over the top for the winter. i image you can just do it anyway with
any plant, though, within reason.
kylie

"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
...

Have a look at Len's strawbale beds.

i did! it got me thinking.

Straw is a very useful medium
but expensive at the moment - sigh.

in our area it's been the same price since we got here, but shorter, bittier
& crappier just lately.

It's worth buying some straw in Autumn and aging it (by that I mean
put it on the ground and then turn it regularly to age it - fresh
straw can be antagonistic to new plant growth so just turn each face
to the earth over about a 4 month period - it rots a bit but not
enough to destroy it). Once its aged over winter set out 3 bales
facing north in a U shape in late winter over prepared ground and put
2 old windows on the northern side - one on the top of the bales and
the other leaning onto the open part of the U. The sun will warm it
up and give you an early planting spot - good for cucurbitszucchini
etc as by the time the frosts are over they are big enough to power
on.

excellent! thanks!
kylie

kylie,

with those plants that wher dormant in winter they where covered
conmpletely ie.,. the ginger as there was no top growth left.

but with growing stuff like pumpkins and pawpaw i covered with enough
of a loose layer to create a barrier of warmer air, this with heavily
mulched root runs which kept the root runs warmer all helped.



On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 12:13:52 GMT, "0tterbot" wrote:

snipped
With peace and brightest of blessings,

len

--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."

http://www.lensgarden.com.au/

kylie,

i don;t use straw as such it is way too dear and harder to get around
here so i use what is readily available and economical and that is
sugar cane mulch and pasture grass hay.

you could use dense foliaged branches from other trees as a cove also
anything to create that air barrier.

On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 12:16:57 GMT, "0tterbot" wrote:

snipped
With peace and brightest of blessings,

len

--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."

http://www.lensgarden.com.au/

"0tterbot" wrote in message
...
"meeee" wrote in message
...
i have been!! g i got one lovely one (decorative, not veg) the other
week that i think isn't. just to give myself something to fuss & obsess
about. i'm looking forward to the winter veg which won't give me any
worries, i must say. it's the "summer" things which suffer when it won't
bloody stop frosting that is driving me mad!

thanks!
kylie


Lol sounds like you're having fun anyway. I think the others had better
advice...but one thing I do know is that if your tomato plants get bitten
and cark it, pull them out by the roots and hang them upside down; you'll
get most of your green tomatoes ripening that way. I had tomatoes half
way through winter with this trick!!

thank you! that's a good tip. i suspect there'll be a lot of hanging
tomatoes around here this autumn :-) (they're just going so sloooooow!)
kylie


uh huh...just when you want them to hurry up and ripen before the frost
kills them, they decide to get all sleepy....last time I did this, we were
living on a 'shared' block with some tourist cabins; the road the tourists
used went straight past our house, and our greenhouse was right next to the
road. I used to love watching the looks; they'd come up the driveway, see DH
sitting in the hammock after work, dreadlocks swinging in the breeze, reggae
playing loudly, and some suspicious looking plants drying in the
greenhouse....then, oh, it's only tomatoes and they'd smile and wave and
probably wonder what else we had drying out the back....lol yuppies are
funny people.