"Chookie" wrote in message
news:ehrebeniuk-23D51A.16283707012008@news...

Some twit in WA tried to get elected by telling everyone he'd dam the Fitroy
and pipe the water to Perth. Problem is that unless the pipe runs downhill
all the way (3700 km), you need to pump that water uphill -- and that's
really, really energy-intensive. A litre of water, after all, weighs a
kilo.
To give you an idea, Warragamba Dam (Sydney's main dam) has an output of 2.6
million litres a day.


My dam is 2.3 megalitres, maybe you mean gigalitres.

Sometimes we forget how darn big Australia is. History also tells us that
most of those giant engineering projects don't end well.


True. In all the enthusiasm to make the desert bloom humans have produced
quite a few disasters due to unintended consequences.

David

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
...
"Blackadder XXIV" wrote in message

Staring at a map of Australia, you can see that we've got a system of
rivers- there should be someway we can tap into them - creating canals,
reservoirs and aquaduct systems (underground) to pipe water from areas
which flood to areas which are dry.

What's the cost? One billion dollars? Ten billions dollars? Probably more.
Will it be done in ten years time, twenty? forty years perhaps? I think
its feasibily - anything is better than seeing parts of our nation flood,
farming communities dry out, and just swatting the flies off our faces.

If you are looking at a topographical map, you will notice that Australia is
virtually flat and that means that most rivers are shallow and that the
rivers that have water in quantity, have it for only a relatively short
period of time and event hen it spreads out on the floodplain.

Canals have worked over relatively short distances in other countries with a
much higher population density but in our conditions they would suffer
evaporation badly.

Exactly

Reservoirs work best where there are steep ravines
through which a river passes and this has largely already been done where it
can be. In order for pipelines to be effective you would need permanent
access to large quantities of water to make building them effective and
where woudl that be?


Not to mention that every time you build a dam you cover many kilometres of
land, often very productive land as it is in in river valleys.

Dorathea Mackellar was right. "Droughts and flooding rains" That has
always been our pattern and that is also why Aus has the topographical
profile it does now. We live in a truly ancient continent and I strongly
suspect that peak oil and the lack of progress on solar energy means we will
not be faced with any solutions in the short term (by which I mean anything
up to 50 years from now).



A more realistic view.

David

"Jonno" wrote in message
...
Pete wrote:
David Hare-Scott wrote:
"Blackadder XXIV" wrote in message
u...
Has there been a serious study done to see the feasibility of
channeling
water from our far north to some of the drier parts of our continent?
I'm
thinking of a massive pipe and aquaduct system.


Yes several over the last 150 years. The Dept of Water Resources

I think they changed it after getting too much mail addressed
Dept. of Watery Sauces.

Pete
How would you know, what are your sauces?

BBQ and tomato

George W. Frost wrote:
"Jonno" wrote in message
...
Pete wrote:
David Hare-Scott wrote:
"Blackadder XXIV" wrote in message
u...
Has there been a serious study done to see the feasibility of
channeling
water from our far north to some of the drier parts of our continent?
I'm
thinking of a massive pipe and aquaduct system.

Yes several over the last 150 years. The Dept of Water Resources
I think they changed it after getting too much mail addressed
Dept. of Watery Sauces.

Pete
How would you know, what are your sauces?

BBQ and tomato


Ah yes, those sauces are tainted.
They is polluted with american, jerrican and mexican (they cant, only
think they can) ingredients. Oil, petrol and hot peppers, which doesnt
do much for anything. It creates pushy oily pollies and unstable
governments which are a pain in the rear.
Sugggest oil pipelines, which can then be converted to water pipelines.
Much smarter.(Dont tell the Queenslanders)

"George W. Frost" wrote in message
...
Kwinana Desalination Plant, located just south of Perth, Western
Australia, turns water from the Indian Ocean into nearly 40 million
gallons of drinking water per day. The reverse-osmosis plant is the first
of its kind in Australia and covers a few acres in an industrial park next
to the ocean. The Emu Downs Wind Farm, with 48 wind turbines north of
Perth, provides enough renewable energy to power the plant.

Even the South Australians are thinking about it :
The Point Paterson Desalination Plant is a planned municipal-scale
solar-powered desalination plant with land-based brine disposal just
outside Port Augusta, South Australia. The plant will integrate renewable
energy and desalination technologies to create environmentally-friendly
electricity and water. In particular, the project will significantly
reduce the usual greenhouse impacts associated with grid electricity
demand for desalination

The Israel'is seem to have achieved it:
http://www.businessweek.com/technolo...230_495029.htm
http://www.washingtonjewishweek.com/... &TM=43851.36

Hmm... that's fantastic. Any links for that Kwinana Plant? This is the first
time I heard about it.

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
(snip)

A more realistic view.

David I don't know if you are old enough to remember the old 'Nation
Review'. If you aren't old enough, it was a newspaper full of well written
meaty articles but with a tendency to the leftist side of the political
spectrum. I don't care about that: I just want information and thoughtful
comments so I can make up my own mind.

Given the dearth of decent commentary of any sort over the past decade or
so, I have long wished for such a publication and I think I have finally
found something very similar.

I wrote my comment on water and topography yesterday and today picked up a
publication that I've only read only once before but I'm going to do so
regularly in future. The publication is called "Dissent" and it has some
interesting articles on the environment (and one article on the escalation
of debt in Aus with a very disturbing chart showing debt to GDP from 1880 to
now - I haven't read it yet but am itching to do so). Anyway, I suspect you
might have a simialr interest in some of the things I do so just want to
mention it in case you are interested. Cost $7.70 - seems to be a
quarterly.

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
...
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
(snip)

A more realistic view.

David I don't know if you are old enough to remember the old 'Nation
Review'.

I am. I do.

I wrote my comment on water and topography yesterday and today picked up a
publication that I've only read only once before but I'm going to do so
regularly in future. The publication is called "Dissent" and it has some
interesting articles on the environment (and one article on the escalation
of debt in Aus with a very disturbing chart showing debt to GDP from 1880 to
now - I haven't read it yet but am itching to do so). Anyway, I suspect you
might have a simialr interest in some of the things I do so just want to
mention it in case you are interested. Cost $7.70 - seems to be a
quarterly.


I will keep my eyes open

thanks

David

"Blackadder XXIV" wrote in message
u...

"George W. Frost" wrote in message
...
Kwinana Desalination Plant, located just south of Perth, Western
Australia, turns water from the Indian Ocean into nearly 40 million
gallons of drinking water per day. The reverse-osmosis plant is the first
of its kind in Australia and covers a few acres in an industrial park
next to the ocean. The Emu Downs Wind Farm, with 48 wind turbines north
of Perth, provides enough renewable energy to power the plant.

Even the South Australians are thinking about it :
The Point Paterson Desalination Plant is a planned municipal-scale
solar-powered desalination plant with land-based brine disposal just
outside Port Augusta, South Australia. The plant will integrate renewable
energy and desalination technologies to create environmentally-friendly
electricity and water. In particular, the project will significantly
reduce the usual greenhouse impacts associated with grid electricity
demand for desalination

The Israel'is seem to have achieved it:
http://www.businessweek.com/technolo...230_495029.htm
http://www.washingtonjewishweek.com/... &TM=43851.36

Hmm... that's fantastic. Any links for that Kwinana Plant? This is the
first time I heard about it.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems...9/s1748557.htm

http://www.sese.uwa.edu.au/__data/pa.../Seah_2005.pdf

http://au.geocities.com/perth_water/july04.html

http://www.water-technology.net/projects/perth/

LindaB wrote:
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
(snip)

David I don't know if you are old enough to remember the old 'Nation
Review'.

Lean, mean and nosy like a Ferret.

Don't know it at all!

Linda (not the one wantng to do the lawn, the one with the Zucchinis.
Any ideas for Cherry Tomatoes???)
Er grow them, give them enough water, dont plant them under trees where
there is shade, and kids, and allow them to ripen.
Then eat them? Sounds good to me!!!!

LindaB wrote:
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in message
(snip)

David I don't know if you are old enough to remember the old 'Nation
Review'.

Lean, mean and nosy like a Ferret.

Don't know it at all!

Linda (not the one wantng to do the lawn, the one with the Zucchinis.
Any ideas for Cherry Tomatoes???)
Oh Chardonnay goes well with them, as does a salad, onions and good company!

Blackadder XXIV wrote:
Has there been a serious study done to see the feasibility of channeling
water from our far north to some of the drier parts of our continent? I'm
thinking of a massive pipe and aquaduct system.

lol.

1. They all get as far as realizing that the great surplus of water up
north is a myth.
2. It costs money to build and maintain the pipeline and to pump the
water. Far more that it would cost for any other scheme.




It does seem sad that some parts of our land suffer from too much water -

Yep, the bits we irrigate.

I'm not thinking that such a mammoth scheme could be achieved in 10 or even
100 years- but what's the alternative? Desalination plants don't seem to be
that effective.

replace porcelan thrones.

Blackadder XXIV wrote:

But this cycle of drought and flood will remain with us for generations -
and our population size is growing too. Desalination plants aren't the
answer. And I don't think water rationing will work either.

Reduce, reuse, recycle.


Staring at a map of Australia, you can see that we've got a system of
rivers- there should be someway we can tap into them - creating canals,
reservoirs and aquaduct systems (underground) to pipe water from areas which
flood to areas which are dry.

lol, are you looking at the same map that tourists look at?


What's the cost? One billion dollars? Ten billions dollars?

Probably closer to 100 trillion dollars.
for what point?
So idiots in cities can flush it all away.

FarmI wrote:

Canals have worked over relatively short distances in other countries with a
much higher population density but in our conditions they would suffer
evaporation badly.

Which is the exact problem that all our current irrigation systems suffer.

David Hare-Scott wrote:

True. In all the enthusiasm to make the desert bloom humans have produced
quite a few disasters due to unintended consequences.

And the Ord River Irrigation Scheme is another one unfolding.

"Terryc" wrote in message
...
David Hare-Scott wrote:

True. In all the enthusiasm to make the desert bloom humans have
produced
quite a few disasters due to unintended consequences.

And the Ord River Irrigation Scheme is another one unfolding.

Terry
The Ord has been recognised as a disaster for the last 20 years or so. Geese
love rice and any other thing that grows & ya can't shoot the Bs. Leave the
tropics alone and bomb a few cities, drastic but effective.