In article , said...

:Jeßus wrote:
: Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author you
: know.
:
: Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down' better
: compared to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and so forms a more
: effective covering, whilst at the same time providing some organic
: material, bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly?
:
:Is what you you are using straw of hay? The two are not the same, they come
:form different sources, have different content and behave differently.

Hmm...

Well, So far I've been using a random mixture of small quantities of
straw/hay since moving here rather than a consistent type of hay or
straw from a regular source. I'll be ordering a large amount pretty soon
though.

I *have* recently used a few bales of fresh 'oat straw', which I've
found is good to protect freshly transplanted plants (especially
sensitive young seedlings) from the sun and wind.

In article ,
ask@itshall said...
:
:"Jeßus" wrote in message
...
: In article ,
: ask@itshall said...
: :"Jeßus" wrote in message
: ...
: : As you say, too many variables involved to say with any degree of
: : certainty. I'll just get as big a load as I can.
: :
: : One way or the other it'll be quickly used up, I planted somewhere
: : between 200-300 trees last year, and most of those will need some re-
: : mulching before too long. Then there's the impending (new) polytunnel,
: : which I hope will be ready to go by mid-autumn. Also the shade house
: : veggie garden and the 'open' veggie gardens. And the fruit trees... and
: : on it goes...
: :
: :A lady I know wrote a rather good book on kitchen gardening and she says
: to
: :never use straw straight from the bale but to age the bales first by
: letting
: :them sit on the earth and turning them occasionally for a couple of
: months
: :till they lose that straw colour. I have been doing this now for a
: couple
: f years and I think she's right. I now think that fresh straw isn't as
: :good to use for mulch as aged straw. Plants seem to prefer aged straw.
:
: Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author you
: know.
:
: Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down' better compared
: to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and so forms a more effective
: covering, whilst at the same time providing some organic material,
: bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly?
:
:what she says on the subject is the following:
:"There are two good reasons for spoiling bales:
:1. Germination or seed spoiling is encouraged and any grass that does grow
n the bale is killed as the bale is rotated.
:2. During the first few weeks of rotting, the hay and straw produces toxins
:that inhibit plant gowth including the growth of weeds. the toxicity can
:last for a few weeks."
:
:The toxicity doesn't surprise me a great deal given how resistant to
:breaking down fresh straw can be if put straight on to beds. My soil needs
:feeding rather than mulching as I have lots of other options for mulch.
:
:One thing she doesn't mention is how attractive older bales are to earth
:worms. I turn them as I remember and then they sit aroud doign nuttin' and
:by the time I finally use them, I find that the side touching the ground is
:alive with worms. It is these worms and the decay that I really want in
:aged bales.

Some good points there, many thanks.

"Jeßus" wrote in message
...
In article , said...

:Jeßus wrote:
: Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author you
: know.
:
: Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down' better
: compared to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and so forms a more
: effective covering, whilst at the same time providing some organic
: material, bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly?
:
:Is what you you are using straw of hay? The two are not the same, they
come
:form different sources, have different content and behave differently.

Hmm...

Well, So far I've been using a random mixture of small quantities of
straw/hay since moving here rather than a consistent type of hay or
straw from a regular source. I'll be ordering a large amount pretty soon
though.

I *have* recently used a few bales of fresh 'oat straw', which I've
found is good to protect freshly transplanted plants (especially
sensitive young seedlings) from the sun and wind.

All seedlings will do better with some mulch rather than none.

FarmI wrote:
"Jeßus" wrote in message
...
In article ,
said...
Jeßus wrote:
Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author you
know.

Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down' better
compared to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and so forms a
more effective covering, whilst at the same time providing some
organic material, bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly?

Is what you you are using straw of hay? The two are not the same,
they come form different sources, have different content and behave
differently.

Hmm...

Well, So far I've been using a random mixture of small quantities of
straw/hay since moving here rather than a consistent type of hay or
straw from a regular source. I'll be ordering a large amount pretty
soon though.

I *have* recently used a few bales of fresh 'oat straw', which I've
found is good to protect freshly transplanted plants (especially
sensitive young seedlings) from the sun and wind.

All seedlings will do better with some mulch rather than none.

Thats very arguable if you dont care about the water use.

Rod Speed wrote:
FarmI wrote:
"Jeßus" wrote in message
...
In article ,
said...
Jeßus wrote:
Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author
you know.

Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down' better
compared to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and so forms a
more effective covering, whilst at the same time providing some
organic material, bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly?

Is what you you are using straw of hay? The two are not the same,
they come form different sources, have different content and behave
differently.

Hmm...

Well, So far I've been using a random mixture of small quantities of
straw/hay since moving here rather than a consistent type of hay or
straw from a regular source. I'll be ordering a large amount pretty
soon though.

I *have* recently used a few bales of fresh 'oat straw', which I've
found is good to protect freshly transplanted plants (especially
sensitive young seedlings) from the sun and wind.

All seedlings will do better with some mulch rather than none.

Thats very arguable if you dont care about the water use.

I don't want to argue for the sake of it but even if you have an infinite
supply of cheap water you cannot always be there to apply it and timers do
not adapt to weather conditions unless you have a very sophisticated setup
with moisture sensors. Mulch will help retain moisture and cool the soil,
both are useful, without attention. Also as mulch degrades it feeds the
soil and improves its texture.

David

David Hare-Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
FarmI wrote
Jeßus wrote
Jeßus wrote

Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author you know.

Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down' better
compared to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and so forms a
more effective covering, whilst at the same time providing some
organic material, bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly?

Is what you you are using straw of hay? The two are not the same, they come form different sources, have
different content and behave differently.

Hmm...

Well, So far I've been using a random mixture of small quantities
of straw/hay since moving here rather than a consistent type of
hay or straw from a regular source. I'll be ordering a large
amount pretty soon though.

I *have* recently used a few bales of fresh 'oat straw', which I've
found is good to protect freshly transplanted plants (especially
sensitive young seedlings) from the sun and wind.

All seedlings will do better with some mulch rather than none.

Thats very arguable if you dont care about the water use.

I don't want to argue for the sake of it but even if you have an
infinite supply of cheap water you cannot always be there to apply it and timers do not adapt to weather conditions
unless you have a very sophisticated setup with moisture sensors.

The only real effect of that is to use more water that you didnt actually need to apply.

Mulch will help retain moisture

Yes, but that doesnt matter if you dont care about the water you use.

and cool the soil, both are useful,

Not necessarily.

without attention.

Also as mulch degrades it feeds the soil and improves its texture.

It can also make things worse.

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
Rod Speed wrote:
FarmI wrote:
"Jeßus" wrote in message
...
In article ,
said...
Jeßus wrote:
Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author
you know.

Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down' better
compared to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and so forms a
more effective covering, whilst at the same time providing some
organic material, bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly?

Is what you you are using straw of hay? The two are not the same,
they come form different sources, have different content and behave
differently.

Hmm...

Well, So far I've been using a random mixture of small quantities of
straw/hay since moving here rather than a consistent type of hay or
straw from a regular source. I'll be ordering a large amount pretty
soon though.

I *have* recently used a few bales of fresh 'oat straw', which I've
found is good to protect freshly transplanted plants (especially
sensitive young seedlings) from the sun and wind.

All seedlings will do better with some mulch rather than none.

Thats very arguable if you dont care about the water use.

I don't want to argue for the sake of it but even if you have an infinite
supply of cheap water you cannot always be there to apply it and timers do
not adapt to weather conditions unless you have a very sophisticated setup
with moisture sensors. Mulch will help retain moisture and cool the
soil, both are useful, without attention. Also as mulch degrades it feeds
the soil and improves its texture.

I think where I live the application of fine mulch to seedlings would be
that it evens out the soil temps as we can get stinking hot days followed by
cold night and seedlings aren't too fond of wide swings in temp. The other
thing I find is exactly as you say - moisture is available to the seedlings
without the feast or famine that happens with no mulch.

I use chaff or rice hulls on seedlings as the Choughs don't throw it around
but the rice hulls don't break down as readily as chaff.

Rod Speed wrote:
David Hare-Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
FarmI wrote
Jeßus wrote
Jeßus wrote

Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author
you know.

Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down' better
compared to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and so forms a
more effective covering, whilst at the same time providing some
organic material, bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly?

Is what you you are using straw of hay? The two are not the
same, they come form different sources, have different content
and behave differently.

Hmm...

Well, So far I've been using a random mixture of small quantities
of straw/hay since moving here rather than a consistent type of
hay or straw from a regular source. I'll be ordering a large
amount pretty soon though.

I *have* recently used a few bales of fresh 'oat straw', which
I've found is good to protect freshly transplanted plants
(especially sensitive young seedlings) from the sun and wind.

All seedlings will do better with some mulch rather than none.

Thats very arguable if you dont care about the water use.

I don't want to argue for the sake of it but even if you have an
infinite supply of cheap water you cannot always be there to apply
it and timers do not adapt to weather conditions unless you have a
very sophisticated setup with moisture sensors.

The only real effect of that is to use more water that you didnt
actually need to apply.

I don't understand this. Are you saying that mulch causes you to use more
water? Please explain.


Mulch will help retain moisture

Yes, but that doesnt matter if you dont care about the water you use.

I haven't yet found a situation where I don't care how much water I used,
when are you in this situation?


and cool the soil, both are useful,

Not necessarily.


What do you mean?

without attention.

Also as mulch degrades it feeds the soil and improves its texture.

It can also make things worse.

How? When?

David

David Hare-Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
David Hare-Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
FarmI wrote
Jeßus wrote
Jeßus wrote

Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author you know.

Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down' better
compared to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and so forms
a more effective covering, whilst at the same time providing
some organic material, bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly?

Is what you you are using straw of hay? The two are not the
same, they come form different sources, have different content
and behave differently.

Hmm...

Well, So far I've been using a random mixture of small quantities
of straw/hay since moving here rather than a consistent type of
hay or straw from a regular source. I'll be ordering a large
amount pretty soon though.

I *have* recently used a few bales of fresh 'oat straw', which
I've found is good to protect freshly transplanted plants
(especially sensitive young seedlings) from the sun and wind.

All seedlings will do better with some mulch rather than none.

Thats very arguable if you dont care about the water use.

I don't want to argue for the sake of it but even if you have an
infinite supply of cheap water you cannot always be there to apply
it and timers do not adapt to weather conditions unless you have a
very sophisticated setup with moisture sensors.

The only real effect of that is to use more water that you didnt actually need to apply.

I don't understand this.

OK.

Are you saying that mulch causes you to use more water?

Nope, that the worst a less sophisticated setup with no moisture sensors
does is waste some water that did not need to have been applied.

Please explain.

Just did, Pauline.

Mulch will help retain moisture

Yes, but that doesnt matter if you dont care about the water you use.

I haven't yet found a situation where I don't care how much water I used, when are you in this situation?

When the extra water doesnt cost you a cent.

and cool the soil, both are useful,

Not necessarily.

What do you mean?

Cooler soil isnt always desirable.

without attention.

Also as mulch degrades it feeds the soil and improves its texture.

It can also make things worse.

How? When?

When the decomposition of the mulch uses up nutrients etc.

It can also be a haven for undesirable pests and diseases as well.

FarmI wrote
David Hare-Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
FarmI wrote
Jeßus wrote
Jeßus wrote

Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author you know.

Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down' better
compared to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and so forms a
more effective covering, whilst at the same time providing some
organic material, bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly?

Is what you you are using straw of hay? The two are not the
same, they come form different sources, have different content
and behave differently.

Hmm...

Well, So far I've been using a random mixture of small quantities
of straw/hay since moving here rather than a consistent type of
hay or straw from a regular source. I'll be ordering a large
amount pretty soon though.

I *have* recently used a few bales of fresh 'oat straw', which
I've found is good to protect freshly transplanted plants
(especially sensitive young seedlings) from the sun and wind.

All seedlings will do better with some mulch rather than none.

Thats very arguable if you dont care about the water use.

I don't want to argue for the sake of it but even if you have an
infinite supply of cheap water you cannot always be there to apply
it and timers do not adapt to weather conditions unless you have a
very sophisticated setup with moisture sensors. Mulch will help
retain moisture and cool the soil, both are useful, without attention. Also as mulch degrades it feeds the soil and
improves its texture.

I think where I live the application of fine mulch to seedlings would be that it evens out the soil temps as we can
get stinking hot days followed by cold night and seedlings aren't too fond of wide swings in temp.

Thats nothing like your original ALL SEEDLINGS WILL DO BETTER.

The other thing I find is exactly as you say - moisture is available to the seedlings without the feast or famine that
happens with no mulch.

Not necessarily with automated watering.

I use chaff or rice hulls on seedlings as the Choughs don't throw it around but the rice hulls don't break down as
readily as chaff.

"Rod Speed" wrote in message
FarmI wrote
David Hare-Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
FarmI wrote
Jeßus wrote
Jeßus wrote

Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author you
know.

Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down' better
compared to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and so forms a
more effective covering, whilst at the same time providing some
organic material, bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly?

Is what you you are using straw of hay? The two are not the
same, they come form different sources, have different content
and behave differently.

Hmm...

Well, So far I've been using a random mixture of small quantities
of straw/hay since moving here rather than a consistent type of
hay or straw from a regular source. I'll be ordering a large
amount pretty soon though.

I *have* recently used a few bales of fresh 'oat straw', which
I've found is good to protect freshly transplanted plants
(especially sensitive young seedlings) from the sun and wind.

All seedlings will do better with some mulch rather than none.

Thats very arguable if you dont care about the water use.

I don't want to argue for the sake of it but even if you have an
infinite supply of cheap water you cannot always be there to apply
it and timers do not adapt to weather conditions unless you have a
very sophisticated setup with moisture sensors. Mulch will help
retain moisture and cool the soil, both are useful, without attention.
Also as mulch degrades it feeds the soil and improves its texture.

I think where I live the application of fine mulch to seedlings would be
that it evens out the soil temps as we can get stinking hot days followed
by cold night and seedlings aren't too fond of wide swings in temp.

Thats nothing like your original ALL SEEDLINGS WILL DO BETTER.

I was responding to something David wrote but since you have harked back to
an earlier posting, just for you, I will amend what I wrote. All seedlings
will do better with some mulch rather than none and there are a multiplicity
of reasons why.

The other thing I find is exactly as you say - moisture is available to
the seedlings without the feast or famine that happens with no mulch.

Not necessarily with automated watering.

Please read what I actually wrote rather than what you imagine I wrote.

You have no idea whatsoever what watering system I have, or what quantities
of water I have available and therefore can have absolutley no idea of what
my findings are unless I tell you. I have told you what I find.

FarmI wrote
Rod Speed wrote
FarmI wrote
David Hare-Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
FarmI wrote
Jeßus wrote
Jeßus wrote

Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author you know.

Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down'
better compared to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and
so forms a more effective covering, whilst at the same time
providing some organic material, bacteria etc. to the soil
more quickly?

Is what you you are using straw of hay? The two are not the
same, they come form different sources, have different content
and behave differently.

Hmm...

Well, So far I've been using a random mixture of small
quantities of straw/hay since moving here rather than a
consistent type of hay or straw from a regular source. I'll be ordering a large amount pretty soon though.

I *have* recently used a few bales of fresh 'oat straw', which
I've found is good to protect freshly transplanted plants
(especially sensitive young seedlings) from the sun and wind.

All seedlings will do better with some mulch rather than none.

Thats very arguable if you dont care about the water use.

I don't want to argue for the sake of it but even if you have an
infinite supply of cheap water you cannot always be there to apply
it and timers do not adapt to weather conditions unless you have a
very sophisticated setup with moisture sensors. Mulch will help
retain moisture and cool the soil, both are useful, without attention. Also as mulch degrades it feeds the soil and
improves its texture.

I think where I live the application of fine mulch to seedlings
would be that it evens out the soil temps as we can get stinking
hot days followed by cold night and seedlings aren't too fond of
wide swings in temp.

Thats nothing like your original ALL SEEDLINGS WILL DO BETTER.

I was responding to something David wrote but since you have harked
back to an earlier posting, just for you, I will amend what I wrote. All seedlings will do better with some mulch
rather than none and
there are a multiplicity of reasons why.

You can repeat that till you are blue in the face if you like, its still just plain wrong.

The other thing I find is exactly as you say - moisture is available to the seedlings without the feast or famine
that happens with no mulch.

Not necessarily with automated watering.

Please read what I actually wrote rather than what you imagine I wrote.

Everyone can see what you wrote.

You have no idea whatsoever what watering system I have,

You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly irrelevant.

What watering system you have in spades.

Your original was not just about your situation, it was a general absolute statement.

or what quantities of water I have available and therefore can have absolutley no idea of what my findings are unless
I tell you. I have told you what I find.

You have always been, and always will be, completely and utterly irrelevant.

What watering system you have in spades.

Your original was not just about your situation, it was a general absolute statement.

Mr Speed is now infecting the garden. Is there no hope for the world?????
Roddles stick to the computer newsgroup where we now how much of a dickhead
you are. These are mostly good folk, so please FO.

Rod Speed wrote:
David Hare-Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
David Hare-Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
FarmI wrote
Jeßus wrote
Jeßus wrote

Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady
author you know.

Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down'
better compared to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier material and so
forms
a more effective covering, whilst at the same time providing
some organic material, bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly?

Is what you you are using straw of hay? The two are not the
same, they come form different sources, have different content
and behave differently.

Hmm...

Well, So far I've been using a random mixture of small
quantities of straw/hay since moving here rather than a
consistent type of hay or straw from a regular source. I'll be
ordering a large amount pretty soon though.

I *have* recently used a few bales of fresh 'oat straw', which
I've found is good to protect freshly transplanted plants
(especially sensitive young seedlings) from the sun and wind.

All seedlings will do better with some mulch rather than none.

Thats very arguable if you dont care about the water use.

I don't want to argue for the sake of it but even if you have an
infinite supply of cheap water you cannot always be there to apply
it and timers do not adapt to weather conditions unless you have a
very sophisticated setup with moisture sensors.

The only real effect of that is to use more water that you didnt
actually need to apply.

I don't understand this.

OK.

Are you saying that mulch causes you to use more water?

Nope, that the worst a less sophisticated setup with no moisture
sensors does is waste some water that did not need to have been
applied.
Please explain.

Just did, Pauline.

Mulch will help retain moisture

Yes, but that doesnt matter if you dont care about the water you
use.

I haven't yet found a situation where I don't care how much water I
used, when are you in this situation?

When the extra water doesnt cost you a cent.

and cool the soil, both are useful,

Not necessarily.

What do you mean?

Cooler soil isnt always desirable.

without attention.

Also as mulch degrades it feeds the soil and improves its texture.

It can also make things worse.

How? When?

When the decomposition of the mulch uses up nutrients etc.

It can also be a haven for undesirable pests and diseases as well.

I now understand much more about you and your odd posting style, no further
explanation is required thankyou.

David

David Hare-Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
David Hare-Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
David Hare-Scott wrote
Rod Speed wrote
FarmI wrote
Jeßus wrote
Jeßus wrote

Based on past experiences, I tend to agree with the lady author you know.

Hard to put into words why - perhaps it just 'beds down' better compared to the stiffer, fresher/bulkier
material and so forms
a more effective covering, whilst at the same time providing
some organic material, bacteria etc. to the soil more quickly?

Is what you you are using straw of hay? The two are not the
same, they come form different sources, have different content
and behave differently.

Hmm...

Well, So far I've been using a random mixture of small
quantities of straw/hay since moving here rather than a
consistent type of hay or straw from a regular source. I'll be ordering a large amount pretty soon though.

I *have* recently used a few bales of fresh 'oat straw', which
I've found is good to protect freshly transplanted plants
(especially sensitive young seedlings) from the sun and wind.

All seedlings will do better with some mulch rather than none.

Thats very arguable if you dont care about the water use.

I don't want to argue for the sake of it but even if you have an
infinite supply of cheap water you cannot always be there to apply
it and timers do not adapt to weather conditions unless you have a
very sophisticated setup with moisture sensors.

The only real effect of that is to use more water that you didnt
actually need to apply.

I don't understand this.

OK.

Are you saying that mulch causes you to use more water?

Nope, that the worst a less sophisticated setup with no moisture sensors does is waste some water that did not need
to have been applied.

Please explain.

Just did, Pauline.

Mulch will help retain moisture

Yes, but that doesnt matter if you dont care about the water you use.

I haven't yet found a situation where I don't care how much water I used, when are you in this situation?

When the extra water doesnt cost you a cent.

and cool the soil, both are useful,

Not necessarily.

What do you mean?

Cooler soil isnt always desirable.

without attention.

Also as mulch degrades it feeds the soil and improves its texture.

It can also make things worse.

How? When?

When the decomposition of the mulch uses up nutrients etc.

It can also be a haven for undesirable pests and diseases as well.

I now understand much more about you and your odd posting style,

Nothing odd about it.

no further explanation is required thankyou.

OK.