Hi

Billy M. Rhodes wrote:


Watering from the bottom is generally not a good idea because:
1. It tends to compact the soil and drive out the oxygen needed for
good plant health (possible exception, watering newly repotted plants from the
bottom might help settle loose soil [opinions differer])
I think that on the contrary the total immesrsion of a pot inside
the water until all bubbles stops coming out from the soil expells
all air and allows water to reach the deep part right under the trunk
that is a very delicate part and very dry and from where decay starts
quite often , and when the pot is taken out of water and slightly
tilted it sucks air in renewing oxygen acting like a pump.. this cna be
done 2-3 times without danger .
I forgot once my old pentephilla inside a small tub filled with
water a whole night and it did not die...
so soaking it 10 minutes or 3 times in a row in 10 minutes is not
the end of the world, but mainly a matter of time .
BUT it all depends of the kind of soil you have and of the kind of
plants, Azaleas hate that & serissa also !
Than another problem with this sort of watering is the washing off of
the soil and of its minerals ...
here it is my Pentaphilla
http://groups.msn.com/BonsaiItalia/g...to&PhotoID=123



2. if more than one plant shares the tub/basin, pathogens can be
spread from one plant to another.
yes this is a problem of course and one has to think about Anyway
over 3-5 bonsais and depending upon their size , as my penta that
is 18 kilos 36 llbs about ,to plunge it is a grief for my back!:-)
But I still do it sparingly in the evening during the hot season
Theo



Billy on the Florida Space Coast
Bonsai Societies of Florida Annual Convention Memorial Day Weekend 2004
Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral, Florida www.bonsaisocietyofbrevard.org

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Jarbas Godoy ++++
************************************************** ******************************

-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Dear IBCers:
This is another one of those things that we will be debating for many
years.... I tend to agree with Brent. I hand-water, from above, three
times with at least a 15-minute interval. Accumulated salts, are
usually washed out by the second and especially the third watering.
Of course, this is my Humble Opinion!

Generally, I agree with Brent, too, but in any even, with most bonsai it's probably not a major issue, assuming you repot every few years.

I water from the top almost eclusively -- except for some of my smallest trees who get a monthly (or more frequent) submersal in a fertilizer solution. In most cases, I submerge the entire tree.

jim lewis -

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Jarbas Godoy ++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Hi Carl
I am not so sure that water salts are washed away when the tree is
watered from above .. but half soaking makes sult climb to the surface
for sure and deposid on teh rim of the pot
full submersion has also some advantages to water /fertilize
eveyrwhere even in the very core of the root pad expell old air and
renew it when flushed awaay .. of course it depends again of the
kind of soil, plant,season, and so on
For example in high % of soil with peat the earth when dried and
compacts , reduce in size so watering even if given 10 times from
above will make water run between the root pad and the pot walls .. and
will never reach the inside .. in this case teh best solution is
soaking for 15 minutres or more
When the surface of a bonsai soil is covered with moss the water
will run over it like on a velvet so it takes more that 3 times to
water properly the tree ..
The soil itself is not compacted in theh pot in the same
consistency so water will take the esiest way to run out and leave dry
zones inside ( especilaly in the *root ball core *
The pipes where the water is running all the time get clogged with
calcar anyway .. Both sistems are valid each has its own advantages
and disavantages.. one cannot apply them as a rule to all bonsai
In Bonsai technics there is a difference between the theory and the
practice and and we have always to adapt the know how to the specific
situation .... and not apply the rule word by word
just my two cents...
Theo
Carl L Rosner wrote:

Dear IBCers:
This is another one of those things that we will be debating for many
years.... I tend to agree with Brent. I hand-water, from above, three
times with at least a 15-minute interval. Accumulated salts, are
usually washed out by the second and especially the third watering.
Of course, this is my Humble Opinion!

Carl L. Rosner - near Atlantic City zone 6/7
http://bmee.net/rosner
http://www.jamesbaird.com/cgi-bin/Ja...d=00000068 48

http://www.jamesbaird.com/cgi-bin/Ja...d=00000068 48





Brent Walston wrote:

Folks

It's not a REALLY big deal, unless you live in a hard water area, BUT
there
most certainly is a difference:

When you soak a plant (dunk it), it sits in the same volume of water
without any active circulation. The soil gets saturated. When you lift it
out, it drains. There has been a flush with only the volume of drain
water,
regardless of the size of the container used for soaking. If you don't
let
water go above the rim of the pot, but rather let it get to the top by
capillary action, there is effectiviely NO flushing action of the top
layers of soil. Each watering will add a little more salt deposit as the
water is evaporated or absorbed by the plant

When you water from above, the reverse is true. The top layers of soil
are
continually bathed in fresh water with a less than saturated amount of
dissolved salt. This tends to dissolve any salt left behind by the
evaporation of the previous watering. Additionally, as the soil becomes
saturated, it drains, and additional watering will flush the soil with
many
times the volume of the pot depending on how long you water. If you
are in
a hard water area, watering overhead by a mist irrigation spray or
other system
attached to a timer allows you to flush virtually all of the dissolved
salt
that is practically possible.

The same is true of air flow through the soil mixture, although I doubt
this is as important as the salt flushing action of water flow. If you
dunk
your plant, the water drains out the bottom and pulls in a fresh
charge of
air behind it. One change of air, but probably adequate. If you water
from
above much more air will be pulled through the soil mixture, unless you
water with a firehose and have some way of not blasting out the soil.
Hey,
glued on rocks!


Brent in Northern California
Evergreen Gardenworks USDA Zone 8



************************************************** ******************************

++++Sponsored, in part, by Jarbas Godoy ++++
************************************************** ******************************


-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Hi Theo:
That is the reason that I started my Email with this statement.

"This is another one of those things that we will be debating for many
years...."

In my case I do not use and peat or garden soil. My soil mixes are very
loose. My other reason is that I do not wish to soak each of of my 80
or so trees in the same bath water.....

When I repot I use a tub to soak the newly repotted tree, but then I
move on to my next tree to be repotted. I change the water between
repotting....

I guess this is a matter of our experiences and choices.... that is why
some like Vanilla and others like Chocolate ice cream (or some other
flavor :-D )

8-) Carl L. Rosner - near Atlantic City zone 6/7
http://bmee.net/rosner
http://www.jamesbaird.com/cgi-bin/Ja...d=00000068 48
http://www.jamesbaird.com/cgi-bin/Ja...d=00000068 48


Theo wrote:

Hi Carl
I am not so sure that water salts are washed away when the tree is
watered from above .. but half soaking makes sult climb to the surface
for sure and deposid on teh rim of the pot
full submersion has also some advantages to water /fertilize
eveyrwhere even in the very core of the root pad expell old air and
renew it when flushed awaay .. of course it depends again of the
kind of soil, plant,season, and so on
For example in high % of soil with peat the earth when dried and
compacts , reduce in size so watering even if given 10 times from
above will make water run between the root pad and the pot walls .. and
will never reach the inside .. in this case teh best solution is
soaking for 15 minutres or more
When the surface of a bonsai soil is covered with moss the water
will run over it like on a velvet so it takes more that 3 times to
water properly the tree ..
The soil itself is not compacted in theh pot in the same
consistency so water will take the esiest way to run out and leave dry
zones inside ( especilaly in the *root ball core *
The pipes where the water is running all the time get clogged with
calcar anyway .. Both sistems are valid each has its own advantages
and disavantages.. one cannot apply them as a rule to all bonsai
In Bonsai technics there is a difference between the theory and the
practice and and we have always to adapt the know how to the specific
situation .... and not apply the rule word by word
just my two cents...
Theo
Carl L Rosner wrote:



Dear IBCers:
This is another one of those things that we will be debating for many
years....




************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Jarbas Godoy ++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++