Is there any hope for my bonsai? Could I cut and grow a
branch? I don't
want to give up
on it but it's not shown much sign of life in months (I'm still
watering &
spraying)


If there's still FRESH-looking green (not pale chartreuse-ish
yellow green) under the bark, there's hope.

But STOP SPRAYING, and ease off on the watering -- a lot. Ill
trees don't use much water and too much water will make the roots
situation worse.

You had/have a root rot. The reason you saw so few was they'd
all rotted away into the soil. Chances are you've been watering
too much from the beginning.

Water this tree ONLY when the soil feels dry under the surface.
Dig in with a finger to check, or keep a stick jammed into the
soil and feel the dirty end once a day and water when it gets
dry.

Put the tree in part shade (OUTDOORS, assuming your temps are not
well below freezing).

Good luck.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Cheers,
I've been trying to keep it damp - will check on the shade of
green - it was quite bright last I checked.

I'm in Scotland, temp for the next few days is 10-15C (40-50F ?) will
it cope with that far a bit?

Thanks again,
Dunk

On 22 Apr 2004 07:00:43 -0700, Jim Lewis wrote:

Is there any hope for my bonsai? Could I cut and grow a
branch? I don't
want to give up
on it but it's not shown much sign of life in months (I'm still
watering &
spraying)


If there's still FRESH-looking green (not pale chartreuse-ish
yellow green) under the bark, there's hope.

But STOP SPRAYING, and ease off on the watering -- a lot. Ill
trees don't use much water and too much water will make the roots
situation worse.

You had/have a root rot. The reason you saw so few was they'd
all rotted away into the soil. Chances are you've been watering
too much from the beginning.

Water this tree ONLY when the soil feels dry under the surface.
Dig in with a finger to check, or keep a stick jammed into the
soil and feel the dirty end once a day and water when it gets
dry.

Put the tree in part shade (OUTDOORS, assuming your temps are not
well below freezing).

Good luck.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

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++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++



--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

Dunk,
What is the size of your Sageretia? Is it a collected specimen with dead
wood on it or signs of large old cuts?
Is it losing branches from the bottom of the tree up?
Jerry Meislik
Whitefish Montana USA
Zone 4-5
http://www.bonsaihunk.8m.com/
Hi,
I've a sageretia, that was a gift almost 2 years ago, my first bonsai.
Last winter it's leaves all fell off, but as they fell off, new ones grew
almost
as fast, I lost one brach though that noghing has regrown on and seems to
be dead.
(I cut a branch to find no green) This winter the rest of the leaves
started to dry up
with no regrowth. I checked out the roots to find them almost gone, no
signs
of any beasties but I don't know how to look for fungal infection. I've
repotted it but the leaves continued to dry up but not fall off unless
provoked.

I cut it back a bit to find it still green in the ares that had leaves
with the exception
of dead branch from last year.

Is there any hope for my bonsai? Could I cut and grow a branch? I don't
want to give up
on it but it's not shown much sign of life in months (I'm still watering &
spraying)

Cheers,
Dunk

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Hi Jerry,
Yes the branches it lost were at the bottom of the tree, it's about 8"
tall
shoudl be around 12 years old now. There are a couple of large old cuts,
5mm branches
cut off lower down.

Thanks,
Dunk

On 22 Apr 2004 08:32:03 -0700, Jerry Meislik
wrote:

Dunk,
What is the size of your Sageretia? Is it a collected specimen with dead
wood on it or signs of large old cuts?
Is it losing branches from the bottom of the tree up?
Jerry Meislik
Whitefish Montana USA
Zone 4-5
http://www.bonsaihunk.8m.com/

Dunk,
I can not be sure about your tree. But I can relate that I have had several
Sageretia trees over the years with large dead-wood areas. These were trees
that were imported as larger plants that were cut back. Despite my best
efforts they died a prolonged death with the lower branches dieing off and
the die off moving up to the top.
I could never figure out why, but my best guess is an internal fungal
disease. If you get no better suggestions, use a systemic fungicide on the
tree and repeat it at suggested intervals.
Keep your fingers crossed.
Jerry Meislik
Whitefish Montana USA
Zone 4-5
http://www.bonsaihunk.8m.com/
Hi Jerry,
Yes the branches it lost were at the bottom of the tree, it's about 8"
tall
shoudl be around 12 years old now. There are a couple of large old cuts,
5mm branches
cut off lower down.

Thanks,
Dunk

On 22 Apr 2004 08:32:03 -0700, Jerry Meislik
wrote:

Dunk,
What is the size of your Sageretia? Is it a collected specimen with dead
wood on it or signs of large old cuts?
Is it losing branches from the bottom of the tree up?
Jerry Meislik
Whitefish Montana USA
Zone 4-5
http://www.bonsaihunk.8m.com/


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In a message dated 4/22/2004 11:24:51 AM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:
Cheers,
I've been trying to keep it damp - will check on the shade of
green - it was quite bright last I checked.

I'm in Scotland, temp for the next few days is 10-15C (40-50F ?) will
it cope with that far a bit?

Thanks again,
Dunk
Dunk:

Water reduction alone WILL NOT solve the problem IF the tree has root rot.
This is a fungus, and it will need to be treated:

1. Remove the tree from its pot and inspect the roots. If the roots are
black, cut them back until you see whitish cores.
2. Remove the old soil and soak the root pad for 15 minutes in a fungicidal
bath. Benomyl, Funginex, or the equivalent product will do.
3. Repot the specimen in a fast-draining soil with a modest organic
component. The objective here is to promote root growth rapidly and to minimize water
content in the soil.
4. Place the specimen in indirect sunlight. When you water, water it with a
solution of Roots 2. You should be able to get this sent to you from the UK.
It unequivocally works.
5. As Jim recommended, place a chopstick into the pot and remove it on a
daily basis to check water content. When the chopstick is almost dry to the
touch, thoroughly rewater the specimen.

The temperature is a bit cold given its health. I recommend moving it
indoors at night and back out when the temperature is at least 50 F.

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
members.aol.com/iasnob

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Despite my best
efforts they died a prolonged death with the lower branches dieing off and
the die off moving up to the top.
I could never figure out why, but my best guess is an internal fungal
disease. If you get no better suggestions, use a systemic fungicide on the
tree and repeat it at suggested intervals.


OK, see, that's not how *I* make decisions on when to use a systemic fungicide. First I consult "Fungi on plants and plant products in the United States" by Farr, Bills, Chamuris and Rossman, one of the most useful books ever published (if you're a plant
pathologist). Under Sageretia, only 3 fungi are listed, none of them pathogens. This isn't surprising, since Sageretia is such an uncommon plant of little economic importance: not many people would be *looking* for diseases. So I did a Google search, an
d found an APHIS document on the risks involved in importing Sagaretia from China: "Importation of Chinese Penjing into the United States With Particular Reference to Sageretia thea, 2003."

Look how this document describes bonsai:

"The art of artificially dwarfing plants is a time-consuming and highly labor-intensive activity. The resulting plants range from approximately four inches to 60 inches in height, and the value may range from $10 to $10,000 per plant. The median price of a
n artificially dwarfed plant is close to $100 and varies with the age of the plant regardless of size. Plants imported from Asia (Japan, the People’s Republic of China and the Republic of Korea) represent approximately 80 percent of the value of the enti
re artificially dwarfed plant market in the United States ...The volume of artificially dwarfed and other dwarf plants imported into the United States increased in recent years from fewer than 600 plants in 1993 to over 54,000 plants in 1998."

The document then goes on to list all the fungi ever recorded on Sagaretia world-wide. Of these, most are foliar pathogens. A few are listed as occurring on stems: Ascochyta, Diatrypella, Phoma, Phomopsis, Leptosphaeria. Of these, it isn't clear which, i
f any, are already present in the US. The only one that would alarm me if I isolated it would be the Ascochyta; the others are probably stress-pathogens that wouldn't attack a healthy tree (although without specific epithets one can't be sure). None of th
ese pathogens attack "wood", so symptoms would be readily visible on dead twigs and identification could be easily done by Cooperative Extension. And what would they recommend? They would recommend cutting off the dead areas.

So I would not spray the plant with a systemic fungicide.

Nina, taking 20 minutes to state the obvious, but now knowing a lot more about the pests of Sageretia.

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In a message dated 4/23/2004 9:11:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, writes:

So I would not spray the plant with a systemic fungicide.

Nina, taking 20 minutes to state the obvious, but now
knowing a lot more about the pests of Sageretia.

Nina:

I agree; however, the question remains: does the specimen have root rot disease? If so, it should be soaked in a fungicidal bath.

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
members.aol.com/iasnob

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