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Old 25-05-2004, 06:05 AM
Kevin
 
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Default [IBC] Ceramic Pots

I would like to buy an unglazed ceramic pot that isn't painted brown. Do they make such pots? I figure they do but all the ones I have bought are paited brown and "breath" no better than a glazed pot.


Thanks

Kevin

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Old 25-05-2004, 07:04 AM
Alan Walker
 
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Default [IBC] Ceramic Pots

Xref: kermit rec.arts.bonsai:74952

Kevin: A pot which is "painted" brown is not an unglazed pot. A majority of
unglazed bonsai containers are traditionally a dark brown, but that is the
color of the clay which is used. This is not painted on the pot, but rather
it is mixed into the body of the clay. The container will be that color of
brown throughout the pot rather than just at the surface.
Unglazed pots come in a variety of colors and textures, however. Common clay
colors are the aforementioned dark brown, yellow, red, grey, and olive
green. Occasionally you will find a blue-green color clay. Texture can be
burnished extra smooth, smooth, matte, or rough.
Check the IBC Bonsai Pottery Gallery for a wide sampling of container
styles, colors, textures, sizes, designs, etc. Like most things, the more we
know about this, the more evident is our vast ignorance. ;-)
Alan Walker
http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org


-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin
I would like to buy an unglazed ceramic pot that isn't painted brown. Do
they make such pots? I figure they do but all the ones I have bought are
paited brown and "breath" no better than a glazed pot.
Thanks
Kevin

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

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Old 25-05-2004, 06:19 PM
Iris Cohen
 
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Default [IBC] Ceramic Pots

I would like to buy an unglazed ceramic pot that isn't painted brown. Do
they make such pots? I figure they do but all the ones I have bought are
painted brown and "breathe" no better than a glazed pot.

You are partly right. Most of the so-called unglazed pots are actually
slip-glazed in a matte finish. If you don't like brown, keep looking. Sometimes
you can find them in tan or gray.
However, why do you want the pot to breathe when it is not supposed to? Good
bonsai pots, unglazed or not, are stoneware, which is fired high enough so the
clay fuses and is waterproof. An earthenware pot, which is porous, would not
last very long, especially for a hardy bonsai which is exposed to freezing.

Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)
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Old 25-05-2004, 08:05 PM
dalecochoy
 
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Default [IBC] Ceramic Pots

I would like to buy an unglazed ceramic pot that isn't painted brown.
Do
they make such pots? I figure they do but all the ones I have bought are
painted brown and "breathe" no better than a glazed pot.


Alan said:
Kevin: A pot which is "painted" brown is not an unglazed pot. A majority of
unglazed bonsai containers are traditionally a dark brown, but that is the
color of the clay which is used. This is not painted on the pot, but rather
it is mixed into the body of the clay. The container will be that color of
brown throughout the pot rather than just at the surface.

.. Like most things, the more we
know about this, the more evident is our vast ignorance. ;-)
Alan Walker


All true,
including the last :)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Iris Cohen"
Subject: [IBC] Ceramic Pots

You are partly right. Most of the so-called unglazed pots are actually
slip-glazed in a matte finish.



Mostly NOT TRUE, Almost ALL are colored unglazed clay. some lower quality
Chinese pots will sometimes be slip colored or have slip colored "panels"
which you might see designs carved through, or something like letters, etc.


However, why do you want the pot to breathe when it is not supposed to?

Good
bonsai pots, unglazed or not, are stoneware, which is fired high enough so

the
clay fuses and is waterproof. An earthenware pot, which is porous, would

not
last very long, especially for a hardy bonsai which is exposed to

freezing.


Iris, You've been reading! The term is "vitrfication" .
I've read this "no glaze inside or bottom so pot can "breath" thing three
times in bonsai magazines last year!

Perhaps you alone can rest the urban legend! :)

Regards,
Dale

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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++
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Old 26-05-2004, 01:03 AM
Kevin
 
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Default [IBC] Ceramic Pots

Thanks for your reply, despite what others may say I can see that there is
some sort of a coating on most of the unglazed I have inspected. If you chip
it off it will often reveal a lighter colored clay. I thought they did this
because they used cheaper grades of clay for the pots I have bought. To
your question as to why I think they should breath. I thought it would help
keep free water from laying in the bottom of the pot. Maybe not a good idea
but I thought it sounded good.

Thanks

Kevin


You are partly right. Most of the so-called unglazed pots are actually
slip-glazed in a matte finish. If you don't like brown, keep looking.

Sometimes
you can find them in tan or gray.
However, why do you want the pot to breathe when it is not supposed to?

Good
bonsai pots, unglazed or not, are stoneware, which is fired high enough so

the
clay fuses and is waterproof. An earthenware pot, which is porous, would

not
last very long, especially for a hardy bonsai which is exposed to

freezing.

Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)


************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++


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Old 26-05-2004, 04:02 AM
dalecochoy
 
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Default [IBC] Ceramic Pots

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin" Subject: [IBC] Ceramic Pots


Thanks for your reply, despite what others may say I can see that there is
some sort of a coating on most of the unglazed I have inspected. If you

chip
it off it will often reveal a lighter colored clay. I thought they did

this
because they used cheaper grades of clay for the pots I have bought.

Thanks

Kevin


Kevin,
Aside from the comment I made earlier about colored panels on cheaper
unglazed chinese pots sometimes ( which WOULD be lighter underneath if you
chip off the slip/stain) I did happen to think of something you MIGHT be
seeing. On newer "Higher Grade" Chinese pots that have been around the last
few years ( and are actually pretty darn nice chinese pots!) I have noticed
a wax-like coating on them to achieve a nice smooth finish. It does often
become a problem within the first year(s) as it starts to flake away as
white chalky looking crap on the sides of the pot. In a few years it'll be
pretty much gone and coating with mineral oil ( baby oil) periodically does
help them look better while they go through this "shedding of wax". Also
some scrubbing with a scotch-brite pad. I imagine if you chip a new one
you'd notice the uncoated clay underneath as more dull.
Just a thought on that.
Dale

************************************************** ******************************
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************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++
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Old 26-05-2004, 08:02 AM
Alan Walker
 
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Default [IBC] Ceramic Pots

Xref: kermit rec.arts.bonsai:74993

I don't know where your pots come from, but I have never noticed
such a coating on unglazed Tokoname bonsai pots.
Alan Walker
http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org

-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin
Thanks for your reply, despite what others may say I can see that there is
some sort of a coating on most of the unglazed I have inspected. If you chip
it off it will often reveal a lighter colored clay. I thought they did this
because they used cheaper grades of clay for the pots I have bought. To
your question as to why I think they should breath. I thought it would help
keep free water from laying in the bottom of the pot. Maybe not a good idea
but I thought it sounded good.
Thanks
Kevin
==========
You are partly right. Most of the so-called unglazed pots are actually
slip-glazed in a matte finish. If you don't like brown, keep looking.
Sometimes
you can find them in tan or gray. However, why do you want the pot to
breathe when it is not supposed to? Good bonsai pots, unglazed or not, are
stoneware, which is fired high enough so the clay fuses and is waterproof.
An earthenware pot, which is porous, would not last very long, especially
for a hardy bonsai which is exposed to freezing.
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

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Old 26-05-2004, 11:09 PM
Bart Thomas
 
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Default [IBC] Ceramic Pots

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Walker"

I don't know where your pots come from, but I have never noticed
such a coating on unglazed Tokoname bonsai pots.
Alan Walker


I had a large high grade unglazed japanese pot have parts of the surface
flake off this winter. It came off just as though it were heavy paint on a
poorly prepared surface. This was not a new pot, but one which had come
through at least 5 winters (zone 6) unscathed.

Until it came off (in parts) it had not appeared to be any sort of coating
whatever. The finish under the "coating" seemed much rougher than the
original finish on the pot.

FWIW, we plan to do some experimental sand-blasting on it, to see what
happens.

Regards,

Bart

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++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
************************************************** ******************************
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Old 27-05-2004, 03:09 AM
[email protected]
 
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Default [IBC] Ceramic Pots

Actually, I am pretty sure I've seen some pots which were slip-glazed & some
which were self-colored.

Iris, You've been reading!* The term is "vitrification." I've read this* "no
glaze inside or bottom so pot can* "breathe" thing three times in bonsai
magazines last year!
Perhaps you alone can rest the* urban legend! :)

Along with the legends about irregular shaped gravel and humidity trays, no
doubt.
I have about three or so pots which are glazed on the inside. The bonsai do
not care in the least.
I didn't necessarily read this stuff recently. I majored in arts & crafts 55
years ago, including four years of ceramics. Khaimraj has a great deal of up
to date information on the subject.
Iris

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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

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Old 29-05-2004, 05:08 AM
Kevin
 
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Default [IBC] Ceramic Pots

The pot I first noticed this on wasn't an expensive unglazed pot, I got it
from Dallas Bonsai If I remember right... anyway I would not have noticed
the coating except for a defect, a run in the "slip glaze" it was very hard
but I managed to chip it off, after looking closely I believe every brown
pot I have seen has this exact same coating. I imagine it is to water proof
the clay so it can survive freezes. Perhaps similar to the frost free
coating European terra cotta planters some times have on them.

Anyway it seems by consensus that a pot must be sealed to prevent cracking
during winter. Thanks for the info.


Kevin.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bart Thomas"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 4:39 PM
Subject: [IBC] Ceramic Pots


----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Walker"

I don't know where your pots come from, but I have never noticed
such a coating on unglazed Tokoname bonsai pots.
Alan Walker


I had a large high grade unglazed japanese pot have parts of the surface
flake off this winter. It came off just as though it were heavy paint on a
poorly prepared surface. This was not a new pot, but one which had come
through at least 5 winters (zone 6) unscathed.

Until it came off (in parts) it had not appeared to be any sort of coating
whatever. The finish under the "coating" seemed much rougher than the
original finish on the pot.

FWIW, we plan to do some experimental sand-blasting on it, to see what
happens.

Regards,

Bart


************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --

+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
************************************************** ******************************
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http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
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