Claudio

Poisons should never be used in a preemptive way, but only if you have
a problem, and then only after attempting less serious methods.

I have never found it necessary to use poisons on a Bonsai. I am able
to remove the insects/bugs from the individual plants by hand or by pruning
away the affected areas.

When you say "fumigation" in the United States it refers to filling an
indoor area such as a home or greenhouse with "fumes" or gases that kill
every living animal in the place. This is usually only used to treat homes for
termites or a greenhouse for a persistent problem on an entire crop.

Real "fumigation" makes it unsafe for people to enter the area for a
number of days. Workers applying fumigants usually wear elaborate protective
clothing, which may include portable breathing equipment.



In a message dated 7/23/2004 6:53:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes:

I have two questions about fumigation:
First; is it right to make it in a preemptive way? If so, could anybody
explain me when to make it and against what kind of
insects/fungi/spiders/etc
and with what agents? And another question about the use of oil based
pesticides
against spiders and aphids: Is it safe for our bonsai to use them? Does
it affect in any way our soil if it becomes wet with that kind of solution
(maybe the water retention)?
Thank you all.
Claudio Fierro Neudörfer


Billy on the Florida Space Coast
BSF Annual Convention July 1 - 4, 2005 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral,
Florida
Workshops with Jerry Meislik of Whitefish, Montana, Chase Rosade of New Hope,
PA, and Ben Oki of California.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Claudio

Poisons should never be used in a preemptive way, but only if you have
a problem, and then only after attempting less serious methods.

I have never found it necessary to use poisons on a Bonsai. I am able
to remove the insects/bugs from the individual plants by hand or by pruning
away the affected areas.

When you say "fumigation" in the United States it refers to filling an
indoor area such as a home or greenhouse with "fumes" or gases that kill
every living animal in the place. This is usually only used to treat homes for
termites or a greenhouse for a persistent problem on an entire crop.

Real "fumigation" makes it unsafe for people to enter the area for a
number of days. Workers applying fumigants usually wear elaborate protective
clothing, which may include portable breathing equipment.



In a message dated 7/23/2004 6:53:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes:

I have two questions about fumigation:
First; is it right to make it in a preemptive way? If so, could anybody
explain me when to make it and against what kind of
insects/fungi/spiders/etc
and with what agents? And another question about the use of oil based
pesticides
against spiders and aphids: Is it safe for our bonsai to use them? Does
it affect in any way our soil if it becomes wet with that kind of solution
(maybe the water retention)?
Thank you all.
Claudio Fierro Neudörfer


Billy on the Florida Space Coast
BSF Annual Convention July 1 - 4, 2005 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral,
Florida
Workshops with Jerry Meislik of Whitefish, Montana, Chase Rosade of New Hope,
PA, and Ben Oki of California.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

I have two questions about fumigation:
First; is it right to make it in a preemptive way?

No. Spray pesticides on EXISTING insects. It does no good
(except to the pocketbook of the pesticide company). to spray a
bug that isn't there. Even systemics should not be use unless
one of the target insects is present. Today's pesticides do not
persist (thankfully!) in the soil and on the leaves and in the
tree's system.

If so, could anybody
explain me when to make it and agains what kind of
insects/fungi/spiders/etc
and with what agents?

Read
The
Label

We are not licensed pesticide applicators (most of us -- Nina is
an exception). The label for each poison you bu will specify
where it can and can NOT be used. It is against the law (in most
countries, at least) to spray in any any different manner than
the label instructions.

And another question about the use of oil based pesticides
against spiders and aphids: Is it safe for our bonsai to use
them? Does
it affect in any way our soil if it becomes wet with that kind of
solution
(maybe the water retention?)?

If you use THAT much oil spray you will poison your plant.
Read the Label.
Spray ONTO the bug, and don't overdo.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Bonsaiests
are like genealogists: We know our roots!

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Thank you all a lot for the feedback on that issue. I have lost lot´s
of trees because of pests and don´t know exactly what the right
response to that problem is. I have noticed thta many trees next to my
home are infested, but nobody gives them treatment for that. Maybe they
are the primary focus for my persistent infestations. Nina (or
anybody), any advice?
Thank you.
Claudio
************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Thank you all a lot for the feedback on that issue. I have lost lot´s
of trees because of pests and don´t know exactly what the right
response to that problem is. I have noticed thta many trees next to my
home are infested, but nobody gives them treatment for that. Maybe they
are the primary focus for my persistent infestations. Nina (or
anybody), any advice?
Thank you.
Claudio
************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

"Claudio Fierro" wrote in message
...
I have two questions about fumigation:
First; is it right to make it in a preemptive way? If so, could anybody
explain me when to make it and agains what kind of
insects/fungi/spiders/etc
and with what agents? And another question about the use of oil based
pesticides
against spiders and aphids: Is it safe for our bonsai to use them? Does
it affect in any way our soil if it becomes wet with that kind of solution
(maybe the water retention?)?
Thank you all.

Don't apply any chemicals unless any targets are there. Applying it before
you see the targets can/eventually will cause resistant pests/fungus and
then you will have all sorts of problems.
Oil based pesticides are safe to use, but careful when using white oil/pest
oil, a petroleum based spray used to suffocate pests, mostly spider mites,
aphids and scale. As a bonsai is so small, it is quite easy to cover all the
foliage, which is needed on the topsides of the leaves, but careful not to
cover undersides of the leaves as it can suffocate the plant.
Some chemicals will become inert when it hits the soil, others may stay in
the soil for 6months, you have to read the instructions to know what's what
and the effects it has on soil. They won't harm the plant, but careful with
the soil for your own safety.
Finally mix at the suggested rate, don't weaken it cos a bonsai is small.
Most of all follow instructions carefully, especially taking note that the
plant isn't waterlogged, soil extremely dry, or suffering from heat stress
at time of application which are common rules for most chemical
applications.

Good luck
Claudio Fierro Neudörfer


************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Claudio:
The first thing I do is turn a hose on a tree that
might be infested. I use one hand to hold down the
trunk and spray as close as possible under and on top
of the leaves.

I do this a couple times a week until I see the pests
are gone. Then I put out a sign, "welcome spiders!"

Seriously, I have spiders, and to me they are the
friends of Bonsaist!

Best of luck,
Carl L. Rosner - near Atlantic City zone 6/7

http://rosner.becanz.net
http://www.jamesbaird.com/cgi-bin/Ja...d=00000068 48


--- Claudio Fierro wrote:
Thank you all a lot for the feedback on that issue.
I have lost lot´s
of trees because of pests and don´t know exactly
what the right
response to that problem is.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Thank you all a lot for the feedback on that issue. I have lost
lot´s
of trees because of pests and don´t know exactly what the right
response to that problem is.

First, you need to be able to identify the pest itself. In North
America, we can buy several books that illustrate the various
pests, the damages they cause, and that suggest control methods.
I have to assume that the same will hold for Europe. However,
bugs is bugs (as they say) and some American websites may help:
Take a look at:

http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/2000/index.html
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/TOPIC_Insects
http://creatures.ifas.ufl.edu/

to find information on insect species (or at least Genera) that
may be on your trees.

You also should get books (or visit websites) that have good
information on the trees you use for bonsai. Those books/sites
also will discuss pests. Note: Do NOT count on bonsai books to
give you particularly good info on tree species; get a technical
(perhaps forestry) publication on trees.

Maybe some of our European members know of European websites or
books????

I have noticed thta many trees next to my
home are infested, but nobody gives them treatment for that.
Maybe they
are the primary focus for my persistent infestations.

That's possible but on the other hand, if there are lots of big
plants around, bugs aren't too likely to go after small bonsai in
pots.

The BASIC procedure in control of insects and plant disease
around bonsai is to KEEP YOUR GROWING AREA CLEAN -- AND DRY.
This means to clear away all dead leaves, twigs, wash-out soil,
etc. from around your pots and KEEP it cleared. It also means
that pots MUST have legs so water can drain easily and they don't
sit in their own sludge. If there aren't legs on a training pot,
sit it up on a couple of boards, so there is space between the
bottom of the pot and the table -- or set it on a wire table.

The table should be flat, without a rim that holds water on the
surface of the table. It should dry rapidly after you water.
The wooden surface (if that's what you have) should NOT be
rotten. Rotting wood holds water and promotes growth of fungus.

Another preventative step: Water so you don't get leaves wet.
Spray spreads fungus. Once you get fungus, you have it.
Fungicides do little good after the fact. (In fact, fungicides
are almost the ONLY pesticide you can use ahead of time to
prevent infestation. But again, you should suspect the
likelihood of a specific type of fungus and only use the correct
fungicide -- which makes it a guessing game.)

Plants should be spaced several inches apart. Tree canopies
should NOT touch. plants should be exposed to sunlight and
breezes as often as possible and consistent with the species of
tree.

Follow these general guidelines with your plants and you should
have healthier bonsai -- no matter what the trees that grow
around you come down with.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where
people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and
its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it
should have - Paul Bigelow Sears.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

I don't have much to add to what you've already been told. I can't
tell if you really meant "fumigation" as in "applying a pesticide in
gaseous form", which is a bad idea, period.

(Claudio Fierro) wrote in message ...
I have two questions about fumigation:
First; is it right to make it in a preemptive way?

No.

And another question about the use of oil based pesticides
against spiders and aphids: Is it safe for our bonsai to use them?

Test first. Trees differ in their sensitivity to oil; the dosage to
use may differ. And read the label: some should not be used above
certain temperatures.

Nina, at a workshop learning to extract DNA from fungi.

Thanks again everybody for the valuable information. Now I understand
it isn't a good idea to use pesticides in a preemptive way; but, can
someone explain to me why we can do it for funghi?
Thanks.
Claudio.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Thanks again everybody for the valuable information. Now I understand
it isn't a good idea to use pesticides in a preemptive way; but, can
someone explain to me why we can do it for funghi?
Thanks.
Claudio.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

In a message dated 7/26/2004 1:29:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes:

Now I understand
it isn't a good idea to use pesticides in a preemptive way; but, can
someone explain to me why we can do it for fungi?

Claudio

The reasons are much the same no matter what poisons we are using.
There are good fungus in the soil and too much fungicide kills the good and the
bad. It also helps the bad fungus build resistance to the chemical.
In a famous case, I think worldwide, a fungicide (Benlate) killed a
lot of indoor plants growing in greenhouses. The company paid a large
settlement and pulled the chemical.
Billy on the Florida Space Coast
BSF Annual Convention July 1 - 4, 2005 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral,
Florida
Workshops with Jerry Meislik of Whitefish, Montana, Chase Rosade of New Hope,
PA, and Ben Oki of California.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

In a message dated 7/26/2004 1:29:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
writes:

Now I understand
it isn't a good idea to use pesticides in a preemptive way; but, can
someone explain to me why we can do it for fungi?

Claudio

The reasons are much the same no matter what poisons we are using.
There are good fungus in the soil and too much fungicide kills the good and the
bad. It also helps the bad fungus build resistance to the chemical.
In a famous case, I think worldwide, a fungicide (Benlate) killed a
lot of indoor plants growing in greenhouses. The company paid a large
settlement and pulled the chemical.
Billy on the Florida Space Coast
BSF Annual Convention July 1 - 4, 2005 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral,
Florida
Workshops with Jerry Meislik of Whitefish, Montana, Chase Rosade of New Hope,
PA, and Ben Oki of California.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

"Claudio Fierro" wrote in message
...
Thanks again everybody for the valuable information. Now I understand
it isn't a good idea to use pesticides in a preemptive way; but, can
someone explain to me why we can do it for funghi?
Thanks.
Claudio.

You don't always do it for fungi, and apart from in my job at a golf course
I have never done it elsewhere.
The reason it can be done is fungal attacks can be predicted.
e.g. Humid weather can bring on specific fungal attacks, as can a lot of
rain. Also certain plants may be prone to certain fungal attacks in your
local area.
I know Azaleas in my local area are very prone to petal blight, as are
roses. This is due to the humidity here
Still there is no harm in spraying at the very first signs of it.
The main points to remember if you are going to spray fungicide preemtive
a
1) Know the disease first so you use the correct chemical
2) Spray at correct time. This may be at a particular time of year, or just
after constant rain or humid conditions. Again, depends on fungus, local
conditions and particular plant/s. No point spraying at wrong time, as it
does nothing and wastes money.
3) Try and rotate fungicides. Here in Australia (and I assume most other
places) chemicals are classed into groups (A, B C etc). You may choose to
spray group A for a year, then the following year, group B, then back to A
the next year. Of course these letters are eg only, fungicides may be
different group letters. Also the fungicide will have a different name, so
be sure that between swapping groups they will attack your target.
Failure to swap groups or over use of fungicides (or any chemical) can cause
resitant fungus (and pests), then you may never get rid of the target and
may lose the plant in worse cases.

Good luck
Andrew
Forster, Mid North Coast, NSW Australia

************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

"Claudio Fierro" wrote in message
...
Thanks again everybody for the valuable information. Now I understand
it isn't a good idea to use pesticides in a preemptive way; but, can
someone explain to me why we can do it for funghi?
Thanks.
Claudio.

You don't always do it for fungi, and apart from in my job at a golf course
I have never done it elsewhere.
The reason it can be done is fungal attacks can be predicted.
e.g. Humid weather can bring on specific fungal attacks, as can a lot of
rain. Also certain plants may be prone to certain fungal attacks in your
local area.
I know Azaleas in my local area are very prone to petal blight, as are
roses. This is due to the humidity here
Still there is no harm in spraying at the very first signs of it.
The main points to remember if you are going to spray fungicide preemtive
a
1) Know the disease first so you use the correct chemical
2) Spray at correct time. This may be at a particular time of year, or just
after constant rain or humid conditions. Again, depends on fungus, local
conditions and particular plant/s. No point spraying at wrong time, as it
does nothing and wastes money.
3) Try and rotate fungicides. Here in Australia (and I assume most other
places) chemicals are classed into groups (A, B C etc). You may choose to
spray group A for a year, then the following year, group B, then back to A
the next year. Of course these letters are eg only, fungicides may be
different group letters. Also the fungicide will have a different name, so
be sure that between swapping groups they will attack your target.
Failure to swap groups or over use of fungicides (or any chemical) can cause
resitant fungus (and pests), then you may never get rid of the target and
may lose the plant in worse cases.

Good luck
Andrew
Forster, Mid North Coast, NSW Australia

************************************************** **************************
****
++++Sponsored, in part, by Chris Cochrane++++

************************************************** **************************
****
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++