I have fairly often read in this forum about people using composted pine
bark as part of their soil mix, which leads me to ask how exactly does
one compost pine bark? Is it the same as composting yard and kitchen
waste? Do you keep it dark and moist and turn it regularly? Or is
composted pine bark a product you can purchase in the same way regular
gardeners purchase composted steer manure?

And while we are on the subject, I cannot find pine bark locally but
have purchased something called orchid bark which, after a few phone
calls to the company that bags it and ships it to the local garden
centres, I have been informed is all hemlock. If it was fatal for
Socrates, is hemlock OK for my cryptomeria?

Les Linfoot
New Westminster, BC, Canada
Zone 8

I cannot find pine bark locally but have purchased something called orchid
bark which, after a few phone calls to the company that bags it and ships it to
the local garden centres, I have been informed is all hemlock. If it was fatal
for Socrates, is hemlock OK for my cryptomeria?

Socrates' poison hemlock was an entirely different plant, a member of the
Apiaceae. Hemlock bark is from Tsuga canadensis, Canadian hemlock (or another
member of the same genus), a conifer. In this country we use Douglas fir bark,
a byproduct of the plywood industry. If it is safe for orchid roots, it is safe
for bonsai. However, how fine is it ground? I have found that the finest fir
bark available is only suitable for conifer mix. I gather that the finely
ground pine bark necessary for regular mix is only available in Florida.
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

"Les linfoot" wrote in message
...
If it was fatal for
Socrates, is hemlock OK for my cryptomeria?

It's not the same hemlock. Not even close. The hemlock Socrates drank was
Conium maculatum (http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/conium.html ). "Your"
hemlock is a tree of genus Tsuga
(http://www.botanik.uni-bonn.de/conifers/pi/ts/ ). I think it's bark would
be OK for your cryptomeria.

In article ,
"Luke Tulkas" wrote:

It's not the same hemlock. Not even close. The hemlock Socrates drank was
Conium maculatum (http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/conium.html ). "Your"
hemlock is a tree of genus Tsuga
(http://www.botanik.uni-bonn.de/conifers/pi/ts/ ). I think it's bark would
be OK for your cryptomeria.


And Iris Cohen wrote:
Socrates' poison hemlock was an entirely different plant, a member of the
Apiaceae. Hemlock bark is from Tsuga canadensis, Canadian hemlock (or another
member of the same genus), a conifer. In this country we use Douglas fir bark,
a byproduct of the plywood industry.

And I am very impressed. I mean I knew that it probably wasn't tsuga
canadensis or heterophylla and I was really just being facetious, but I
am impressed that people actually know what kind of hemlock shooter the
old Greek knocked back.

And while i am in reply mode...

Brent at Evergreen Gardenworks wrote:
The major cause of soil collapse is
loss of particle size due to _composting_ of the organic portion. By
using composted bark, you are using a material that already has one
foot in the grave.

But, Brent, is there not some nutritional value to be gained through the
composting process? I know that when my wife composts kitchen waste,
etc. for her garden, she does it in order to add more than just (for
lack of a better word) fibre to the soil. It works like a slow release
organic fertilizer for her.

Les Linfoot
New Westminster, BC, Canada
Zone 8

And while i am in reply mode...

Brent at Evergreen Gardenworks wrote:
The major cause of soil collapse is
loss of particle size due to _composting_ of the organic
portion. By
using composted bark, you are using a material that already
has one
foot in the grave.

But, Brent, is there not some nutritional value to be gained
through the
composting process? I know that when my wife composts kitchen
waste,
etc. for her garden, she does it in order to add more than just
(for
lack of a better word) fibre to the soil. It works like a slow
release
organic fertilizer for her.


The short answer is: yes.

But!

The actual NUTRITIONAL value of compost is quite small, even for
manure compost. (Manures themselves have a small nutritional
value -- for instance, 1.1-0.8-0.5 for chicken manure, the most
"potent" of the manures.

The main value of compost in the garden is adding "tilth" to the
soil. Tilth is one of those hard-to-define terms, but basically
it means making hard-clay garden (or field) soil permeable, or in
places like south Florida to make very sandy soil hold water for
a bit longer.

Our bonsai soil -- large grains and inorganic -- is 100%
permeable already.

Adding compost to this mix clogs up the pres between soil grains
and makes the soil hold more water than it should and for longer
periods. The result with many trees will be root rot -- and
death. For bonsai, drainage is the MOST important factor in the
soil. Usually the soils we use have absolutely NO nutritional
value. They are, in fact, soil-less. We supply nutrients in
other ways.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Bonsaiests
are like genealogists: We know our roots!

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