On 20 Oct 2004 at 13:17, Kitsune Miko wrote:

--- Jim Lewis wrote:

the
varnish, or lacquer, or polyethylene, or wood
hardener, will
offer considerable protection because they seal the
wood away
from nasty thingies.

Interestingly enough big tree people (arborists) will
not seal dead wood because of locking in nasty
thingies.



Yeah, that's true, but that's for "big" trees that have limbs
cut, then are ignored and "never" looked at again.

We, on the other hand, are constantly examining our trees and
pampering them and will/would/should notice those nasty thingies
if, perchance, we sealed one in. ;-)

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

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On 20 Oct 2004 at 13:17, Kitsune Miko wrote:

--- Jim Lewis wrote:

the
varnish, or lacquer, or polyethylene, or wood
hardener, will
offer considerable protection because they seal the
wood away
from nasty thingies.

Interestingly enough big tree people (arborists) will
not seal dead wood because of locking in nasty
thingies.



Yeah, that's true, but that's for "big" trees that have limbs
cut, then are ignored and "never" looked at again.

We, on the other hand, are constantly examining our trees and
pampering them and will/would/should notice those nasty thingies
if, perchance, we sealed one in. ;-)

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

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************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Kitsune: I think we are comparing apples and oranges here. Based
upon solid botanical research on trees, Alex Shigo, in his
seminal book, A New Tree Biology, has educated about the
compartmentalization process trees go through when properly
pruned by respecting their "branch collars". Shigo has shown that
the application of paint and other tree "sealers" does more harm
than good by disrupting the compartmentalization process
necessary for a tree to maintain a healthy immune system and by,
often as not, trapping destructive organisms behind the sealer
and making it harder to discover and treat their presence.
With bonsai we are dealing with much smaller cuts. But
more important than this, we are talking about a true sealer
which has penetrating qualities to preserve already dead wood.
This is not treating a wound, per se, except in the broadest
definition of the term. For this reason, I believe the practice
of applying a penetrating marine grade sealer, such as GitRot or
MinWax Wood Hardener, is a safe and acceptable practice.

Alan Walker
http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org

--- Jim Lewis wrote:
While I have a hard time believing that any antifungal agent
(including lime sulfur) applied to dead wood on a bonsai will
maintain antifungal properties for more than a few hours, or will
affect the fungi that MAY attack the wood in any event, the
varnish, or lacquer, or polyethylene, or wood hardener, will
offer considerable protection because they seal the wood away
from nasty thingies.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kitsune Miko

Interestingly enough big tree people (arborists) will not seal
dead wood because of locking in nasty thingies.
Kitsune Miko

************************************************** ******************************
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************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Kitsune: I think we are comparing apples and oranges here. Based
upon solid botanical research on trees, Alex Shigo, in his
seminal book, A New Tree Biology, has educated about the
compartmentalization process trees go through when properly
pruned by respecting their "branch collars". Shigo has shown that
the application of paint and other tree "sealers" does more harm
than good by disrupting the compartmentalization process
necessary for a tree to maintain a healthy immune system and by,
often as not, trapping destructive organisms behind the sealer
and making it harder to discover and treat their presence.
With bonsai we are dealing with much smaller cuts. But
more important than this, we are talking about a true sealer
which has penetrating qualities to preserve already dead wood.
This is not treating a wound, per se, except in the broadest
definition of the term. For this reason, I believe the practice
of applying a penetrating marine grade sealer, such as GitRot or
MinWax Wood Hardener, is a safe and acceptable practice.

Alan Walker
http://bonsai-bci.com http://LCBSBonsai.org

--- Jim Lewis wrote:
While I have a hard time believing that any antifungal agent
(including lime sulfur) applied to dead wood on a bonsai will
maintain antifungal properties for more than a few hours, or will
affect the fungi that MAY attack the wood in any event, the
varnish, or lacquer, or polyethylene, or wood hardener, will
offer considerable protection because they seal the wood away
from nasty thingies.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kitsune Miko

Interestingly enough big tree people (arborists) will not seal
dead wood because of locking in nasty thingies.
Kitsune Miko

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************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Yeah, that's true, but that's for "big" trees that have limbs
cut, then are ignored and "never" looked at again.

As a Cornellian, I was taught that trees healed better if one left
them alone. However, preserving a jin is different than lopping off a
limb. In general, an exposed jin is not an entryway to disease,
although it's a good idea to limit jin to species that have dead wood
in nature. People who jin figs are just asking for trouble.

We, on the other hand, are constantly examining our trees and
pampering them and will/would/should notice those nasty thingies
if, perchance, we sealed one in. ;-)

I have these Nepalese statues that have been in my possession for over
TWO YEARS. Then they began to have sawdust eruptions. Amazingly,
they were infested with powderpost beetles, which can survive as larva
in dry treated wood for two years or more.

I bagged the carvings and killed the beetles as they emerged. I think
the little exit holes just add charm to the statues.

Yeah, that's true, but that's for "big" trees that have limbs
cut, then are ignored and "never" looked at again.

As a Cornellian, I was taught that trees healed better if one left
them alone. However, preserving a jin is different than lopping off a
limb. In general, an exposed jin is not an entryway to disease,
although it's a good idea to limit jin to species that have dead wood
in nature. People who jin figs are just asking for trouble.

We, on the other hand, are constantly examining our trees and
pampering them and will/would/should notice those nasty thingies
if, perchance, we sealed one in. ;-)

I have these Nepalese statues that have been in my possession for over
TWO YEARS. Then they began to have sawdust eruptions. Amazingly,
they were infested with powderpost beetles, which can survive as larva
in dry treated wood for two years or more.

I bagged the carvings and killed the beetles as they emerged. I think
the little exit holes just add charm to the statues.

Nina Shishkoff wrote:



I bagged the carvings and killed the beetles as they emerged. I think
the little exit holes just add charm to the statues.
microwawes?
anyway not all woods are suitables for jin .. many like pine decay
very quickly.. nature shows us the way for hardy wood


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Private Mail :
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Nina Shishkoff wrote:



I bagged the carvings and killed the beetles as they emerged. I think
the little exit holes just add charm to the statues.
microwawes?
anyway not all woods are suitables for jin .. many like pine decay
very quickly.. nature shows us the way for hardy wood


MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4
Private Mail :
«»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«»

Jim Lewis wrote:


Lime sulfuring of deadwood is another of those slavish, follow-
the-leader techniques of bonsai-dom. (IMHO)

The UGLIEST lime sulfuring I see regularly down here is on bald
cypress which NEVER have white bleached deadwood (except when
sitting on bonsai tables).

I agree with you all these sophisticated plants we drool before
exibitions are nit *reality* are sophistications of reality .. and often
grotesque ..
Instead if systemic anti fungal paste is applied and
after drying, is brushed off with a nylon bursh, it looks better and
protects the wood from fungi.


I use lemon( citric acid) and sea salt when I do small ones..
to keep a little branch ,instead of cutting it off as unnecessary

I do NOT make jins as most of trees are far too young to do that ...
and I do not do yamadori .. have no room to stock huge bonsais



MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4
Private Mail :
«»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«»

Jim Lewis wrote:


Lime sulfuring of deadwood is another of those slavish, follow-
the-leader techniques of bonsai-dom. (IMHO)

The UGLIEST lime sulfuring I see regularly down here is on bald
cypress which NEVER have white bleached deadwood (except when
sitting on bonsai tables).

I agree with you all these sophisticated plants we drool before
exibitions are nit *reality* are sophistications of reality .. and often
grotesque ..
Instead if systemic anti fungal paste is applied and
after drying, is brushed off with a nylon bursh, it looks better and
protects the wood from fungi.


I use lemon( citric acid) and sea salt when I do small ones..
to keep a little branch ,instead of cutting it off as unnecessary

I do NOT make jins as most of trees are far too young to do that ...
and I do not do yamadori .. have no room to stock huge bonsais



MSN messanger / or ICQ 25 666 169 4
Private Mail :
«»«»«» Just for today... don't worry .....be happy «»«»«»

(Anil Kaushik) wrote in message news:BAY19-
Instead if systemic anti fungal paste is applied and
after drying, is brushed off with a nylon bursh, it looks better and
protects the wood from fungi.

I just noticed this statement. I wanted to point out that systemic
fungicide isn't going to work well to protect dead wood because it's
*dead*, and systemic fungicides are designed to protect living tissue
(especially metabolically active tissue). Dead wood is protected by
"protectant fungicides", where the type of tissue being protected
isn't important. A prime example of such a protectant is: lime
sulfur!!! But as so many people have pointed out, Minwax is better
for many reasons.

Nina

Could you please tell as to what is *Minwax*? What is the generic name of
this compound?

Anil Kaushik
Bonsai Club (India)
Chandigarh " The City Beautiful"


----- Original Message -----
From: "Nina Shishkoff"


.......But as so many people have pointed out, Minwax is better for many
reasons.

Nina

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Could you please tell as to what is *Minwax*? What is the generic name of
this compound?

Anil Kaushik
Bonsai Club (India)
Chandigarh " The City Beautiful"


----- Original Message -----
From: "Nina Shishkoff"


.......But as so many people have pointed out, Minwax is better for many
reasons.

Nina

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On 22 Oct 2004 at 20:04, Anil Kaushik wrote:

Could you please tell as to what is *Minwax*? What is the generic name of
this compound?


"MinWax" is a company name. The company makes wood stains
varnishes, poly-whatever finishes, wood filler, and a number of
other wood-finish related products.

The MinWax product we speak about most often here is a "wood
hardener." I have no idea what's in it; and it doesn't smell
like anything _I_ recognize. ;-)

The product is made to soak into and harden pulpy, rotted wood --
as in porches and decks. There is a similar product -- GitRot --
that is intended to do the same for rotted wood in boat hulls
or decks, but it is made by another company. There may be
other, similar, products.

Neither of these, probably, is available in India, but you could
do a web search for "wood hardener" and see what pops up.

The other MinWax product(s) I find very useful are the broad-tip
felt pens filled with wood stain of various kinds. I use these
to disguise major branch cuts until they callus over and to
color jin and shari on deciduous trees where the white look of
lime sulfur is totally inappropriate. The "pickled oak" color
even imparts a lightish color to bare wood.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where
people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and
its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it
should have - Paul Bigelow Sears.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

On 22 Oct 2004 at 20:04, Anil Kaushik wrote:

Could you please tell as to what is *Minwax*? What is the generic name of
this compound?


"MinWax" is a company name. The company makes wood stains
varnishes, poly-whatever finishes, wood filler, and a number of
other wood-finish related products.

The MinWax product we speak about most often here is a "wood
hardener." I have no idea what's in it; and it doesn't smell
like anything _I_ recognize. ;-)

The product is made to soak into and harden pulpy, rotted wood --
as in porches and decks. There is a similar product -- GitRot --
that is intended to do the same for rotted wood in boat hulls
or decks, but it is made by another company. There may be
other, similar, products.

Neither of these, probably, is available in India, but you could
do a web search for "wood hardener" and see what pops up.

The other MinWax product(s) I find very useful are the broad-tip
felt pens filled with wood stain of various kinds. I use these
to disguise major branch cuts until they callus over and to
color jin and shari on deciduous trees where the white look of
lime sulfur is totally inappropriate. The "pickled oak" color
even imparts a lightish color to bare wood.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where
people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and
its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it
should have - Paul Bigelow Sears.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++