Somebody knowledgeable in grafting probably will laugh at this, but,
please, dont.
Anyway, here is what I want I know and what I want to do:
What I know can be doneeven I have never done that) make pears grow
on apple tree by attaching a branch from pear tree to the trunk or
spot on apple tree wher the aple tree branch is coming from.

Now questions.

#1. Will this scenarioo work?
I cut out 10-15 cm of the skin from the branch of apple tree; just the
skin not going deep in the wood. Then I take apple leaves; water, blend
it in the blender a little bit until I have a paste. Put this paste in
the pouch made from cooton towel.
Put in the pouch a seedling of apple tree with some soild soil. Make
sure the seedlings go thru the hole in the pouch as if it would look
when you buy it from the store; just instead of the pot it is in the
pouch.
Place the pouch on the top of tree "wound". Tie it up to the branch
with wet piece of the same towel. Tie it up. Keep it moist. Can I
expect the new apple tree penetrate the branch, fuse with it, and
starting to grow?

#2. You probably ask why all this so complicated, when it can be done
much easier with regular grafting. Reason for that is that, if the
answer to question # 1 is "yes"; what I really want is to try instead
of planting apple tree; what I want is to try something like plant a
tomato plant on the branch of equaliptyus tree. Now it is probably from
the realm of scince fiction or is it possible?

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

In article . com,
"Mark" wrote:

Somebody knowledgeable in grafting probably will laugh at this, but,
please, dont.
Anyway, here is what I want I know and what I want to do:
What I know can be doneeven I have never done that) make pears grow
on apple tree by attaching a branch from pear tree to the trunk or
spot on apple tree wher the aple tree branch is coming from.

For the original poster: where did you ever get this crazy idea?



Now questions.

#1. Will this scenarioo work?
I cut out 10-15 cm of the skin from the branch of apple tree; just the
skin not going deep in the wood. Then I take apple leaves; water, blend
it in the blender a little bit until I have a paste. Put this paste in
the pouch made from cooton towel.
Put in the pouch a seedling of apple tree with some soild soil. Make
sure the seedlings go thru the hole in the pouch as if it would look
when you buy it from the store; just instead of the pot it is in the
pouch.
Place the pouch on the top of tree "wound". Tie it up to the branch
with wet piece of the same towel. Tie it up. Keep it moist. Can I
expect the new apple tree penetrate the branch, fuse with it, and
starting to grow?

You forgot about the part where you induce lightning to strike the tree at
the appropriate time to bring it to life.



#2. You probably ask why all this so complicated, when it can be done
much easier with regular grafting. Reason for that is that, if the
answer to question # 1 is "yes"; what I really want is to try instead
of planting apple tree; what I want is to try something like plant a
tomato plant on the branch of equaliptyus tree. Now it is probably from
the realm of scince fiction or is it possible?

I suggest you take a crash course on plant biology. You have some crazy
ideas.



#2 is a no...

You can generally only successfully graft plants of similar family
groups. IE, pears and apples, or apricots, peaches, plums, nectarines,
or just about any cactus/succulent on cactus stalks.

Correct.



For tomatoes, you might be able to graft them to peppers or potatoes?

But, why?????? They grow so quickly on their own and with greenhousing,
can sometimes be wintered over.

If you are stating there is no advantage to do grafting, I can easily explain
that,
but I'm not sure that is what you are saying.


--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

1.You can generally only successfully graft plants of similar family
groups. IE, pears and apples, or apricots, peaches, plums, nectarines,



What does it mean "generally". Do you mean there are exceptions to this
rule?
Can you, please, give me example of exceptions?


2. For the original poster: where did you ever get this crazy idea?
I have to admit the crazy idea is mine, even I am almost sure somebody
else had this idea before me.
If you ask why, I can explain. Think about this. To grow 20 tomato
plants you rpbably need an area about 10 square feet. Maybe 15, maybe
5. But the tree has a lot of branches and the trunk probably grows from
2-3 square feet area.
If you can plant couple of tomato plants on every branch, you would be
able to produce a lot of tomates from smal acreage. Correct?

I know it sound crazy, I know that, you do not have to persuade me, but
my question is not about is it crazy or not. My question is about is it
possible or not?

Probably, the first guy that wanted to make people fly was asked same
question, Are you crazy? Maybe even have been placed in mental asylum.
Or burned. Still there were enough crazies trying to understanf why
not. And the end result is that airplane came out. And nobody considers
it crazy anymore. And doesn laugh. Is not that right?

So, maybe if the people answering would be the ones specializing in
genetics they may be less sarcastic?



sherwindu wrote:
OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

In article . com,
"Mark" wrote:

Somebody knowledgeable in grafting probably will laugh at this, but,
please, dont.
Anyway, here is what I want I know and what I want to do:
What I know can be doneeven I have never done that) make pears grow
on apple tree by attaching a branch from pear tree to the trunk or
spot on apple tree wher the aple tree branch is coming from.

For the original poster: where did you ever get this crazy idea?



Now questions.

#1. Will this scenarioo work?
I cut out 10-15 cm of the skin from the branch of apple tree; just the
skin not going deep in the wood. Then I take apple leaves; water, blend
it in the blender a little bit until I have a paste. Put this paste in
the pouch made from cooton towel.
Put in the pouch a seedling of apple tree with some soild soil. Make
sure the seedlings go thru the hole in the pouch as if it would look
when you buy it from the store; just instead of the pot it is in the
pouch.
Place the pouch on the top of tree "wound". Tie it up to the branch
with wet piece of the same towel. Tie it up. Keep it moist. Can I
expect the new apple tree penetrate the branch, fuse with it, and
starting to grow?

You forgot about the part where you induce lightning to strike the tree at
the appropriate time to bring it to life.



#2. You probably ask why all this so complicated, when it can be done
much easier with regular grafting. Reason for that is that, if the
answer to question # 1 is "yes"; what I really want is to try instead
of planting apple tree; what I want is to try something like plant a
tomato plant on the branch of equaliptyus tree. Now it is probably from
the realm of scince fiction or is it possible?

I suggest you take a crash course on plant biology. You have some crazy
ideas.



#2 is a no...

You can generally only successfully graft plants of similar family
groups. IE, pears and apples, or apricots, peaches, plums, nectarines,
or just about any cactus/succulent on cactus stalks.

Correct.



For tomatoes, you might be able to graft them to peppers or potatoes?

But, why?????? They grow so quickly on their own and with greenhousing,
can sometimes be wintered over.

If you are stating there is no advantage to do grafting, I can easily explain
that,
but I'm not sure that is what you are saying.


--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

"Mark" wrote in message
ups.com...
Somebody knowledgeable in grafting probably will laugh at this, but,
please, dont.
Anyway, here is what I want I know and what I want to do:
What I know can be doneeven I have never done that) make pears grow
on apple tree by attaching a branch from pear tree to the trunk or
spot on apple tree wher the aple tree branch is coming from.


You could with the right technique graft apples and pears with some degree
of success.

Now questions.

#1. Will this scenarioo work?
I cut out 10-15 cm of the skin from the branch of apple tree; just the
skin not going deep in the wood. Then I take apple leaves; water, blend
it in the blender a little bit until I have a paste. Put this paste in
the pouch made from cooton towel.
Put in the pouch a seedling of apple tree with some soild soil. Make
sure the seedlings go thru the hole in the pouch as if it would look
when you buy it from the store; just instead of the pot it is in the
pouch.
Place the pouch on the top of tree "wound". Tie it up to the branch
with wet piece of the same towel. Tie it up. Keep it moist. Can I
expect the new apple tree penetrate the branch, fuse with it, and
starting to grow?

Sounds crazy to me. Where on earth did you get this from?


#2. You probably ask why all this so complicated, when it can be done
much easier with regular grafting. Reason for that is that, if the
answer to question # 1 is "yes"; what I really want is to try instead
of planting apple tree; what I want is to try something like plant a
tomato plant on the branch of equaliptyus tree. Now it is probably from
the realm of scince fiction or is it possible?


You will not have any joy trying to graft widely different species together,
the only reason apples and pears might work is that they are closely
related.

BTW what is an "equaliptyus tree" ? If you mean "eucalyptus" no chance with
a tomato.

David

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...

"Mark" wrote in message
ups.com...
Somebody knowledgeable in grafting probably will laugh at this,
but,
please, dont.
Anyway, here is what I want I know and what I want to do:
What I know can be doneeven I have never done that) make
pears grow
on apple tree by attaching a branch from pear tree to the
trunk or
spot on apple tree wher the aple tree branch is coming from.


You could with the right technique graft apples and pears with
some degree
of success.

Now questions.

#1. Will this scenarioo work?
I cut out 10-15 cm of the skin from the branch of apple tree;
just the
skin not going deep in the wood. Then I take apple leaves;
water, blend
it in the blender a little bit until I have a paste. Put this
paste in
the pouch made from cooton towel.
Put in the pouch a seedling of apple tree with some soild
soil. Make
sure the seedlings go thru the hole in the pouch as if it would
look
when you buy it from the store; just instead of the pot it is
in the
pouch.
Place the pouch on the top of tree "wound". Tie it up to the
branch
with wet piece of the same towel. Tie it up. Keep it moist. Can
I
expect the new apple tree penetrate the branch, fuse with it,
and
starting to grow?

Sounds crazy to me. Where on earth did you get this from?


#2. You probably ask why all this so complicated, when it can
be done
much easier with regular grafting. Reason for that is that, if
the
answer to question # 1 is "yes"; what I really want is to try
instead
of planting apple tree; what I want is to try something like
plant a
tomato plant on the branch of equaliptyus tree. Now it is
probably from
the realm of scince fiction or is it possible?


You will not have any joy trying to graft widely different
species together,
the only reason apples and pears might work is that they are
closely
related.

BTW what is an "equaliptyus tree" ? If you mean "eucalyptus" no
chance with
a tomato.

David


#1 sounds like the OP has seen some air layering. Some significant
issues to overcome would include the fact that apple leaves do not
contain undifferentiated (stem) cells. In order to clone, these
are necessary. They can be found in buds and in cambium, but not
in leaves. Therefore the apple leaves can not develop roots, bark
or any other type of cell. Science fiction.

#2 Tomatoes and eucalytpus are about as closely related as
giraffes and goldfish. Different genes, chromosomes and
physiology, not to mention how difficult it would be to pick
tomatoes from 90 feet in the air. Bad science fiction.

--
elizabeth, Baton Rouge, LA
http://community.webshots.com/user/elott63

In article ,
sherwindu wrote:

If you are stating there is no advantage to do grafting, I can easily
explain
that,
but I'm not sure that is what you are saying.

I can't see the point in grafting tomatoes...
The plants grow so quickly and can be easily and rapidly stem propagated
from simple cuttings at selected nodes.

Just seems to be silly to me. :-) But, I've done extensive tomato
cutting propagation back in college when I worked in the greenhouse for
my botany professor. I was able to create 40 healthy tomato plants off
of 3 medium sized starts.

But, I did cheat a bit as I had access to auto-sprayers on the benches.
;-) I think I could do it on my own now using a hand sprayer but I'm
dying to try hydroponics one of these years!

There is nothing on gods green earth like a vine ripe tomato.

sigh
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

In article .com,
"Mark" wrote:

1.You can generally only successfully graft plants of similar family
groups. IE, pears and apples, or apricots, peaches, plums, nectarines,



What does it mean "generally". Do you mean there are exceptions to this
rule?
Can you, please, give me example of exceptions?

I stated that due to updates in technology. ;-)
Gene splicing.

If you have access and/or ability to do gene splicing, just about
anything is possible. It's kind of a scary area actually!



2. For the original poster: where did you ever get this crazy idea?
I have to admit the crazy idea is mine, even I am almost sure somebody
else had this idea before me.
If you ask why, I can explain. Think about this. To grow 20 tomato
plants you rpbably need an area about 10 square feet. Maybe 15, maybe
5. But the tree has a lot of branches and the trunk probably grows from
2-3 square feet area.
If you can plant couple of tomato plants on every branch, you would be
able to produce a lot of tomates from smal acreage. Correct?

I know it sound crazy, I know that, you do not have to persuade me, but
my question is not about is it crazy or not. My question is about is it
possible or not?

No. You cannot use standard grafting methods to graft tomato vines onto
a eucalyptus. I'd have to look up the family that Eucalyptus is in to
find compatible trees/plants. As a general rule, only plants in related
families can be grafted successfully.

Kinda like crossbreeding in the animal world. If you decide to have sex
with a goat, she will not "take" and produce a half-human, half-goat
offspring. The same works in the plant world. They have to be somewhat
related to be compatible. Hope that helps a bit?

Now if you can do gene splicing, you may be able to combine tomato and
eucalyptus genes, then all bets are off. But, what would you end up with?


Probably, the first guy that wanted to make people fly was asked same
question, Are you crazy? Maybe even have been placed in mental asylum.
Or burned. Still there were enough crazies trying to understanf why
not. And the end result is that airplane came out. And nobody considers
it crazy anymore. And doesn laugh. Is not that right?

Go back to school and get into plant gene research, then go to work for
Monsanto. ;-) Curiosity is not a sin.


So, maybe if the people answering would be the ones specializing in
genetics they may be less sarcastic?

Seriously, take a good botany course and study plant taxonomy.
At this point in time (barring bizarre lab experiments with special
equipment), us mundane folks can only do grafting with plants in related
families using standard grafting methods.

Do go pick up a good book on plant propagation. Rodale's is a good place
to look for a start. :-)

Some of our best and brightest scientists are nuts, so I'm going to cut
you some slack. lol Plus, I've had a LOT of basic science courses in
college including two semesters of botany....
--
Peace!
Om

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a bitch"
-- Jack Nicholson

Thanks for reply.

1. #1 sounds like the OP has seen some air layering
1a. what is "OP"?
1b. what is "air layering"
1c. Do you mean that I am "OP" and have seen some "air layering" that
looks like
procedure I have described in making the mash from the leaves?
Maybe I am an "OP", whatever it means (hope nothing bad). But I
definitely did not see "air layering". The reason I have come out with
this idea is very simple.
If you have a cut, before it heals there is some kind of liquid coming
to surface of the wound. Not only healing process needs it but I am
sure it is faster with it than without it.
If you use analogy more to the plant you would try to do same thing
with the plant.
When the wound on human body heals, even there is some foreign body
(e.g. splinter) in the wound, the juice will cover it and wound will
heal even there is a foreign body inside The wound. I would think that
something similar will happen with the plant and even better since the
plants are more primitive than animals the process of fusion must be
more successfull than with the species from animal kingdom.
So, this is where my idea comes from. Again, I am sure that somebody
who does grafting may see a lot of obstacles in this. This is Ok,
because I am almost sure that answer lies somewhere between gardening
and genetics. I am just trying to get information from people versed in
gardening, so when next time I will try this issue with people versed
in genetics I will be able to use terminology from gardening (e.g.
buds, "cambium", "OP", "air layering")

2. apple leaves do not contain undifferentiated (stem) cells. In
order to clone, these
are necessary. They can be found in buds and in cambium, but not
in leaves.
2a.undifferentiated (stem) cells) Can you, please in couple of
words explain to me what does it mean "undifferentiated (stem) cells)".
As apposed to "differentiated (stem) cells"? Can you give me example
from the plants of "differentiated stems cells"?
From animal world? Both. Differentiated" and "Undifferentiated"?

2b.are you saying that if I try buds or "cambium" I have better chance
than leaves?
2c. What is "cambium"?

Thanks again.
Please, do not use my ignorance in the issues, that seems obvious to
you. against me.
I am just interested and want to try things without going to school. I
do not have time for that and also think that simple things that you
do in garden do not need an university degree.
If it would, than how all our ancestors were able at the time when
there was not even "public school" concept domesticate animals and
breed plants that we use today.
And most of it has happened 10,000 to 20,000 years ago, when there was
not yet a written language around. Would not you agree that people that
did it did not have formal education in genetics or biology?
So, if they could why we can not? You would not think that "education
hurts" and we are less intelligent than they have been?

3tomatoes from 90 feet in the air
3.aFirst, why 90? why not 10-15? something that is easy to reach.
3.bSecond, who has said that you would have to climb to pick it up?
Maybe it is cheaper to shake the tree and catch it in soft net? An then
just carefully unfold the net and it all roll in in some kind of
bunker? Also only the tomatoes that are ripe enough to fall down from
shaking? Maybe depending on how strong is the shaking you can insure
only certain degree of ripeness? Would not you want to eat ripe
tomatoes instead of green being picked up? Maybe the tomato that grows
this way will be not only sweet but also hard enough? This way you do
not have to pick up individual tomatoes? Also this way they do not fall
on the soil and get spoiled before you pick them up.?
3c.Who has said that the only right way to pick up tomatoes is to walk
between the rows and use your hands? I have been driving and have seen
some kind of combain that goes , cuts complete plant, chews it up and
spits out the leaves and branches on one side and tomato on the other.
Probably very expensive machine, but it does work, and can do in one
day what probably 200-300 people in a day do.

3d.Would not you think that instead of watering an acre, if you water
it from the top of the tree you would have to water just 100-200 square
feet?

4.90 feet in the air
4.aAt 90 feet I would plant something that when living and doing some
excretion, would benefit the tomatoes living at 10-15 feet. Maybe
something that excreets some additional food the tomatoes need. Or
water. Or fertilizer? I do not know.
First I want to grow the tomato at 10 feet. Then we can make next step
and think how to utilize space at 20 feet.

Elizabeth wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...

"Mark" wrote in message
ups.com...
Somebody knowledgeable in grafting probably will laugh at this,
but,
please, dont.
Anyway, here is what I want I know and what I want to do:
What I know can be doneeven I have never done that) make
pears grow
on apple tree by attaching a branch from pear tree to the
trunk or
spot on apple tree wher the aple tree branch is coming from.


You could with the right technique graft apples and pears with
some degree
of success.

Now questions.

#1. Will this scenarioo work?
I cut out 10-15 cm of the skin from the branch of apple tree;
just the
skin not going deep in the wood. Then I take apple leaves;
water, blend
it in the blender a little bit until I have a paste. Put this
paste in
the pouch made from cooton towel.
Put in the pouch a seedling of apple tree with some soild
soil. Make
sure the seedlings go thru the hole in the pouch as if it would
look
when you buy it from the store; just instead of the pot it is
in the
pouch.
Place the pouch on the top of tree "wound". Tie it up to the
branch
with wet piece of the same towel. Tie it up. Keep it moist. Can
I
expect the new apple tree penetrate the branch, fuse with it,
and
starting to grow?

Sounds crazy to me. Where on earth did you get this from?


#2. You probably ask why all this so complicated, when it can
be done
much easier with regular grafting. Reason for that is that, if
the
answer to question # 1 is "yes"; what I really want is to try
instead
of planting apple tree; what I want is to try something like
plant a
tomato plant on the branch of equaliptyus tree. Now it is
probably from
the realm of scince fiction or is it possible?


You will not have any joy trying to graft widely different
species together,
the only reason apples and pears might work is that they are
closely
related.

BTW what is an "equaliptyus tree" ? If you mean "eucalyptus" no
chance with
a tomato.

David


#1 sounds like the OP has seen some air layering. Some significant
issues to overcome would include the fact that apple leaves do not
contain undifferentiated (stem) cells. In order to clone, these
are necessary. They can be found in buds and in cambium, but not
in leaves. Therefore the apple leaves can not develop roots, bark
or any other type of cell. Science fiction.

#2 Tomatoes and eucalytpus are about as closely related as
giraffes and goldfish. Different genes, chromosomes and
physiology, not to mention how difficult it would be to pick
tomatoes from 90 feet in the air. Bad science fiction.

--
elizabeth, Baton Rouge, LA
http://community.webshots.com/user/elott63

David Hare-Scott wrote:


You could with the right technique graft apples and pears with some degree
of success.

No way, Jose!



Now questions.

#1. Will this scenarioo work?
I cut out 10-15 cm of the skin from the branch of apple tree; just the
skin not going deep in the wood. Then I take apple leaves; water, blend
it in the blender a little bit until I have a paste. Put this paste in
the pouch made from cooton towel.
Put in the pouch a seedling of apple tree with some soild soil. Make
sure the seedlings go thru the hole in the pouch as if it would look
when you buy it from the store; just instead of the pot it is in the
pouch.
Place the pouch on the top of tree "wound". Tie it up to the branch
with wet piece of the same towel. Tie it up. Keep it moist. Can I
expect the new apple tree penetrate the branch, fuse with it, and
starting to grow?

Sounds crazy to me. Where on earth did you get this from?


#2. You probably ask why all this so complicated, when it can be done
much easier with regular grafting. Reason for that is that, if the
answer to question # 1 is "yes"; what I really want is to try instead
of planting apple tree; what I want is to try something like plant a
tomato plant on the branch of equaliptyus tree. Now it is probably from
the realm of scince fiction or is it possible?


You will not have any joy trying to graft widely different species together,
the only reason apples and pears might work is that they are closely
related.

Yes, they are both fruits. Closely related, I don't think so. I think you
should
sign up for the same class as the OP.



BTW what is an "equaliptyus tree" ? If you mean "eucalyptus" no chance with
a tomato.

David

Mark wrote:

Thanks for reply.

1. #1 sounds like the OP has seen some air layering
1a. what is "OP"?

Original Poster.


1b. what is "air layering"

Creating a root system above the soil.


1c. Do you mean that I am "OP" and have seen some "air layering" that
looks like
procedure I have described in making the mash from the leaves?
Maybe I am an "OP", whatever it means (hope nothing bad). But I
definitely did not see "air layering". The reason I have come out with
this idea is very simple.
If you have a cut, before it heals there is some kind of liquid coming
to surface of the wound. Not only healing process needs it but I am
sure it is faster with it than without it.
If you use analogy more to the plant you would try to do same thing
with the plant.
When the wound on human body heals, even there is some foreign body
(e.g. splinter) in the wound, the juice will cover it and wound will
heal even there is a foreign body inside The wound. I would think that
something similar will happen with the plant and even better since the
plants are more primitive than animals the process of fusion must be
more successfull than with the species from animal kingdom.
So, this is where my idea comes from. Again, I am sure that somebody
who does grafting may see a lot of obstacles in this. This is Ok,
because I am almost sure that answer lies somewhere between gardening
and genetics. I am just trying to get information from people versed in
gardening, so when next time I will try this issue with people versed
in genetics I will be able to use terminology from gardening (e.g.
buds, "cambium", "OP", "air layering")

2. apple leaves do not contain undifferentiated (stem) cells. In
order to clone, these
are necessary. They can be found in buds and in cambium, but not
in leaves.
2a.undifferentiated (stem) cells) Can you, please in couple of
words explain to me what does it mean "undifferentiated (stem) cells)".
As apposed to "differentiated (stem) cells"? Can you give me example
from the plants of "differentiated stems cells"?
From animal world? Both. Differentiated" and "Undifferentiated"?

2b.are you saying that if I try buds or "cambium" I have better chance
than leaves?
2c. What is "cambium"?

Cambium is the layer just under the bark that transmits all the nutrients
for a plant. When you graft, there must be contact between the two
pieces of their cambium layers for the bond to take effect.



Thanks again.
Please, do not use my ignorance in the issues, that seems obvious to
you. against me.
I am just interested and want to try things without going to school.

OK, take some books out of the library. Surf the web for info.

I
do not have time for that and also think that simple things that you
do in garden do not need an university degree.

You don't need a university degree to read some basic books.
You can only graft plants of the same genetic species. Just accept
that for now, and stop trying to change scientific fact. This is not
the middle ages, so you can rely on this information. Look elsewhere
if you want to make scientific breakthroughs.


If it would, than how all our ancestors were able at the time when
there was not even "public school" concept domesticate animals and
breed plants that we use today.
And most of it has happened 10,000 to 20,000 years ago, when there was
not yet a written language around. Would not you agree that people that
did it did not have formal education in genetics or biology?
So, if they could why we can not? You would not think that "education
hurts" and we are less intelligent than they have been?

3tomatoes from 90 feet in the air
3.aFirst, why 90? why not 10-15? something that is easy to reach.
3.bSecond, who has said that you would have to climb to pick it up?
Maybe it is cheaper to shake the tree and catch it in soft net? An then
just carefully unfold the net and it all roll in in some kind of
bunker? Also only the tomatoes that are ripe enough to fall down from
shaking? Maybe depending on how strong is the shaking you can insure
only certain degree of ripeness? Would not you want to eat ripe
tomatoes instead of green being picked up? Maybe the tomato that grows
this way will be not only sweet but also hard enough? This way you do
not have to pick up individual tomatoes? Also this way they do not fall
on the soil and get spoiled before you pick them up.?

Certain edible crops are harvested by machines that shake them. Don't
think you are going to make any breakthroughs there.


3c.Who has said that the only right way to pick up tomatoes is to walk
between the rows and use your hands? I have been driving and have seen
some kind of combain that goes , cuts complete plant, chews it up and
spits out the leaves and branches on one side and tomato on the other.
Probably very expensive machine, but it does work, and can do in one
day what probably 200-300 people in a day do.

3d.Would not you think that instead of watering an acre, if you water
it from the top of the tree you would have to water just 100-200 square
feet?

4.90 feet in the air
4.aAt 90 feet I would plant something that when living and doing some
excretion, would benefit the tomatoes living at 10-15 feet. Maybe
something that excreets some additional food the tomatoes need. Or
water. Or fertilizer? I do not know.
First I want to grow the tomato at 10 feet. Then we can make next step
and think how to utilize space at 20 feet.

I think you need some practical experience, so go ahead and start gardening
and learn like most of us through experience what works and what doesn't.
Also, find some good reference material on gardening. You don't have to
go to college for that.

Sherwin

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...


David Hare-Scott wrote:


You could with the right technique graft apples and pears with some
degree
of success.

No way, Jose!



Please check your facts. If you had bothered to do so you would have come
up with quite a few examples of grafting apples on to pear stock or vice
versa, here are just a couple, you could find many more.

http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/N.../msg04650.html
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/suttonelms/apple33.html

....snip...

You will not have any joy trying to graft widely different species
together,
the only reason apples and pears might work is that they are closely
related.

Yes, they are both fruits. Closely related, I don't think so.

Well I do think so. They are both pome fruits along with quinces, medlars
and others. They are of the family rosaceae which contains (amongst others)
the genera malus (apples) and pyrus (pears).

I have pears in my garden that are grafted on to quince rootstock. My
apples are grafted on to apple rootstock. These combinations are common as
it produces the best results NOT because apples and pears cannot be grafted
together.

I think you should sign up for the same class as the OP.

I think you should do some basic research before making rude comments in
public about the ignorance of others.


David

Ok-- please forgive the top post.....

OP means "original poster" which is helpful when several people
respond to a thread with multiple thoughts.

Air layering, like grafting, is a form of asexual reproduction.
Asexual propagation results in a clone or genetically identical
specimen to the original. Sexual reproduction results in a new
specimen with genes of both parents. Air layering is a technique
which may look similar to the process you described in your
original post.

Very simply, undifferentiated cells are those which have not been
predestined to become a certain type of cell and therefore have
the ability to develop into whatever needs to be regenerated.
Differentiated cells are those that can not change. For example,
apple leaves contain mature leaf cells. In order for those cells
to turn into an apple tree, one or more of those cells would have
to convert to meristematic condition to develop a new growing
point. 'Stem cells' is short for meristems, which are those that
come from embryonic cells and have never developed into specific
cells with specific functions.

I suggested that harvesting tomatoes from 90 feet in the air might
be difficult as a response to your suggestion that it would be
interesting to graft a tomato to a Eucalyptus. Very few Eucalyptus
attain a mature height of only 10-15 feet. By the way, ever try to
catch a tossed vine ripe tomato from a distance of 10'?
I still say science fiction to the tomato/eucalyptus graft. While
there are countless theoretical, hypothetical, yet to be realized,
and insightful ideas out there, I believe science has proven that
you can't graft a giraffe to a goldfish successfully.

--
elizabeth, Baton Rouge, LA
http://community.webshots.com/user/elott63

----- Original Message -----
From: Mark
Newsgroups: rec.gardens.edible
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 3:53 PM
Subject: grafting, can it be done or is it a science
fiction?


Thanks for reply.

1. #1 sounds like the OP has seen some air layering
1a. what is "OP"?
1b. what is "air layering"
1c. Do you mean that I am "OP" and have seen some "air layering"
that
looks like
procedure I have described in making the mash from the leaves?
Maybe I am an "OP", whatever it means (hope nothing bad). But I
definitely did not see "air layering". The reason I have come
out with
this idea is very simple.
If you have a cut, before it heals there is some kind of liquid
coming
to surface of the wound. Not only healing process needs it but I
am
sure it is faster with it than without it.
If you use analogy more to the plant you would try to do same
thing
with the plant.
When the wound on human body heals, even there is some foreign
body
(e.g. splinter) in the wound, the juice will cover it and wound
will
heal even there is a foreign body inside The wound. I would
think that
something similar will happen with the plant and even better
since the
plants are more primitive than animals the process of fusion
must be
more successfull than with the species from animal kingdom.
So, this is where my idea comes from. Again, I am sure that
somebody
who does grafting may see a lot of obstacles in this. This is
Ok,
because I am almost sure that answer lies somewhere between
gardening
and genetics. I am just trying to get information from people
versed in
gardening, so when next time I will try this issue with people
versed
in genetics I will be able to use terminology from gardening
(e.g.
buds, "cambium", "OP", "air layering")

2. apple leaves do not contain undifferentiated (stem) cells.
In
order to clone, these
are necessary. They can be found in buds and in cambium, but not
in leaves.
2a.undifferentiated (stem) cells) Can you, please in couple
of
words explain to me what does it mean "undifferentiated (stem)
cells)".
As apposed to "differentiated (stem) cells"? Can you give me
example
from the plants of "differentiated stems cells"?
From animal world? Both. Differentiated" and
"Undifferentiated"?

2b.are you saying that if I try buds or "cambium" I have better
chance
than leaves?
2c. What is "cambium"?

Thanks again.
Please, do not use my ignorance in the issues, that seems
obvious to
you. against me.
I am just interested and want to try things without going to
school. I
do not have time for that and also think that simple things
that you
do in garden do not need an university degree.
If it would, than how all our ancestors were able at the time
when
there was not even "public school" concept domesticate animals
and
breed plants that we use today.
And most of it has happened 10,000 to 20,000 years ago, when
there was
not yet a written language around. Would not you agree that
people that
did it did not have formal education in genetics or biology?
So, if they could why we can not? You would not think that
"education
hurts" and we are less intelligent than they have been?

3tomatoes from 90 feet in the air
3.aFirst, why 90? why not 10-15? something that is easy to
reach.
3.bSecond, who has said that you would have to climb to pick it
up?
Maybe it is cheaper to shake the tree and catch it in soft net?
An then
just carefully unfold the net and it all roll in in some kind of
bunker? Also only the tomatoes that are ripe enough to fall down
from
shaking? Maybe depending on how strong is the shaking you can
insure
only certain degree of ripeness? Would not you want to eat ripe
tomatoes instead of green being picked up? Maybe the tomato that
grows
this way will be not only sweet but also hard enough? This way
you do
not have to pick up individual tomatoes? Also this way they do
not fall
on the soil and get spoiled before you pick them up.?
3c.Who has said that the only right way to pick up tomatoes is
to walk
between the rows and use your hands? I have been driving and
have seen
some kind of combain that goes , cuts complete plant, chews it
up and
spits out the leaves and branches on one side and tomato on the
other.
Probably very expensive machine, but it does work, and can do
in one
day what probably 200-300 people in a day do.

3d.Would not you think that instead of watering an acre, if you
water
it from the top of the tree you would have to water just 100-200
square
feet?

4.90 feet in the air
4.aAt 90 feet I would plant something that when living and doing
some
excretion, would benefit the tomatoes living at 10-15 feet.
Maybe
something that excreets some additional food the tomatoes need.
Or
water. Or fertilizer? I do not know.
First I want to grow the tomato at 10 feet. Then we can make
next step
and think how to utilize space at 20 feet.

"Mark" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thanks for reply.

1. #1 sounds like the OP has seen some air layering
1a. what is "OP"?
1b. what is "air layering"
1c. Do you mean that I am "OP" and have seen some "air layering"
that
looks like
procedure I have described in making the mash from the leaves?
Maybe I am an "OP", whatever it means (hope nothing bad). But I
definitely did not see "air layering". The reason I have come
out with
this idea is very simple.
If you have a cut, before it heals there is some kind of liquid
coming
to surface of the wound. Not only healing process needs it but I
am
sure it is faster with it than without it.
If you use analogy more to the plant you would try to do same
thing
with the plant.
When the wound on human body heals, even there is some foreign
body
(e.g. splinter) in the wound, the juice will cover it and wound
will
heal even there is a foreign body inside The wound. I would
think that
something similar will happen with the plant and even better
since the
plants are more primitive than animals the process of fusion
must be
more successfull than with the species from animal kingdom.
So, this is where my idea comes from. Again, I am sure that
somebody
who does grafting may see a lot of obstacles in this. This is
Ok,
because I am almost sure that answer lies somewhere between
gardening
and genetics. I am just trying to get information from people
versed in
gardening, so when next time I will try this issue with people
versed
in genetics I will be able to use terminology from gardening
(e.g.
buds, "cambium", "OP", "air layering")

2. apple leaves do not contain undifferentiated (stem) cells.
In
order to clone, these
are necessary. They can be found in buds and in cambium, but not
in leaves.
2a.undifferentiated (stem) cells) Can you, please in couple
of
words explain to me what does it mean "undifferentiated (stem)
cells)".
As apposed to "differentiated (stem) cells"? Can you give me
example
from the plants of "differentiated stems cells"?
From animal world? Both. Differentiated" and "Undifferentiated"?

2b.are you saying that if I try buds or "cambium" I have better
chance
than leaves?
2c. What is "cambium"?

Thanks again.
Please, do not use my ignorance in the issues, that seems
obvious to
you. against me.
I am just interested and want to try things without going to
school. I
do not have time for that and also think that simple things
that you
do in garden do not need an university degree.
If it would, than how all our ancestors were able at the time
when
there was not even "public school" concept domesticate animals
and
breed plants that we use today.
And most of it has happened 10,000 to 20,000 years ago, when
there was
not yet a written language around. Would not you agree that
people that
did it did not have formal education in genetics or biology?
So, if they could why we can not? You would not think that
"education
hurts" and we are less intelligent than they have been?

3tomatoes from 90 feet in the air
3.aFirst, why 90? why not 10-15? something that is easy to
reach.
3.bSecond, who has said that you would have to climb to pick it
up?
Maybe it is cheaper to shake the tree and catch it in soft net?
An then
just carefully unfold the net and it all roll in in some kind of
bunker? Also only the tomatoes that are ripe enough to fall down
from
shaking? Maybe depending on how strong is the shaking you can
insure
only certain degree of ripeness? Would not you want to eat ripe
tomatoes instead of green being picked up? Maybe the tomato that
grows
this way will be not only sweet but also hard enough? This way
you do
not have to pick up individual tomatoes? Also this way they do
not fall
on the soil and get spoiled before you pick them up.?
3c.Who has said that the only right way to pick up tomatoes is
to walk
between the rows and use your hands? I have been driving and
have seen
some kind of combain that goes , cuts complete plant, chews it
up and
spits out the leaves and branches on one side and tomato on the
other.
Probably very expensive machine, but it does work, and can do
in one
day what probably 200-300 people in a day do.

3d.Would not you think that instead of watering an acre, if you
water
it from the top of the tree you would have to water just 100-200
square
feet?

4.90 feet in the air
4.aAt 90 feet I would plant something that when living and doing
some
excretion, would benefit the tomatoes living at 10-15 feet.
Maybe
something that excreets some additional food the tomatoes need.
Or
water. Or fertilizer? I do not know.
First I want to grow the tomato at 10 feet. Then we can make
next step
and think how to utilize space at 20 feet.

Elizabeth wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...

"Mark" wrote in message
ups.com...
Somebody knowledgeable in grafting probably will laugh at
this,
but,
please, dont.
Anyway, here is what I want I know and what I want to do:
What I know can be doneeven I have never done that) make
pears grow
on apple tree by attaching a branch from pear tree to the
trunk or
spot on apple tree wher the aple tree branch is coming from.


You could with the right technique graft apples and pears
with
some degree
of success.

Now questions.

#1. Will this scenarioo work?
I cut out 10-15 cm of the skin from the branch of apple
tree;
just the
skin not going deep in the wood. Then I take apple leaves;
water, blend
it in the blender a little bit until I have a paste. Put
this
paste in
the pouch made from cooton towel.
Put in the pouch a seedling of apple tree with some soild
soil. Make
sure the seedlings go thru the hole in the pouch as if it
would
look
when you buy it from the store; just instead of the pot it
is
in the
pouch.
Place the pouch on the top of tree "wound". Tie it up to the
branch
with wet piece of the same towel. Tie it up. Keep it moist.
Can
I
expect the new apple tree penetrate the branch, fuse with
it,
and
starting to grow?

Sounds crazy to me. Where on earth did you get this from?


#2. You probably ask why all this so complicated, when it
can
be done
much easier with regular grafting. Reason for that is that,
if
the
answer to question # 1 is "yes"; what I really want is to
try
instead
of planting apple tree; what I want is to try something like
plant a
tomato plant on the branch of equaliptyus tree. Now it is
probably from
the realm of scince fiction or is it possible?


You will not have any joy trying to graft widely different
species together,
the only reason apples and pears might work is that they are
closely
related.

BTW what is an "equaliptyus tree" ? If you mean "eucalyptus"
no
chance with
a tomato.

David


#1 sounds like the OP has seen some air layering. Some
significant
issues to overcome would include the fact that apple leaves do
not
contain undifferentiated (stem) cells. In order to clone, these
are necessary. They can be found in buds and in cambium, but
not
in leaves. Therefore the apple leaves can not develop roots,
bark
or any other type of cell. Science fiction.

#2 Tomatoes and eucalytpus are about as closely related as
giraffes and goldfish. Different genes, chromosomes and
physiology, not to mention how difficult it would be to pick
tomatoes from 90 feet in the air. Bad science fiction.

--
elizabeth, Baton Rouge, LA
http://community.webshots.com/user/elott63

David Hare-Scott wrote:


Please check your facts. If you had bothered to do so you would have come
up with quite a few examples of grafting apples on to pear stock or vice
versa, here are just a couple, you could find many more.

http://www.ibiblio.org/ecolandtech/N.../msg04650.html

If you read carefully, these so called 'successful' grafts were less than
that. I quote:

" I have had several pears grafted onto seedling apple rootstocks(they were
purchased as pear seedlings - but some were NOT!) All languished for as along
as 8-9 years, but most have finally died off."


http://web.ukonline.co.uk/suttonelms/apple33.html

You may find references to people who have possibly had some success in
initially
getting a graft to take between apples and pears, but I doubt if any of
these really
turned out to productive trees.


...snip...

You will not have any joy trying to graft widely different species
together,
the only reason apples and pears might work is that they are closely
related.

Yes, they are both fruits. Closely related, I don't think so.

Well I do think so. They are both pome fruits along with quinces, medlars
and others. They are of the family rosaceae which contains (amongst others)
the genera malus (apples) and pyrus (pears).

I think the issue here is viable grafting. You might be able to stretch the
genetics
a bit with certain species to get an apple on a pear or visa versa, but that
tree
will never flourish and probably die off early.



I have pears in my garden that are grafted on to quince rootstock. My
apples are grafted on to apple rootstock. These combinations are common as
it produces the best results NOT because apples and pears cannot be grafted
together.

What you call best, I call viable.

You picked an exceptional example. Quince is an unusual genus which has some

compatibility with pears. It cannot graft well with certain varieties of
pear, so an
interstem of a pear that is compatible with the top scion and the quince
rootstock
must be placed between them to adjust for this. This adds no weight to the
degree
of compatibility between apples and pears.



I think you should sign up for the same class as the OP.

I think you should do some basic research before making rude comments in
public about the ignorance of others.

You may call them rude, but I think this fellow needs a reality check, and
perhaps
you, as well. You portray these few exceptions as the rule, giving the
impression
that anything goes. People tinker with mixing fruit types, but the
people that sell
rootstocks do not mix their apple and pear offerings, for a good reason.
They mostly
don't work and are not practical. Quince is another story, and people
use it because
it is able to dwarf a pear more than the standard pear rootstocks.

Sherwin



David

Hi All,
To air layer take a branch that will bend down to the soil. Cut a slit in
the stem [ branch ] at an angle, but not all the way through. Insert
something in the slit to keep it open. Peg the stem down to the soil to keep
it in place, use a hoop of wire like an inverted U. cover with soil, roots
will grow from the slit in about 6 to 12 months. You can then serarate it
from the mother plant, and you will have a new plant. Hope this helps you.

Richard M. Watkin.

"Mark" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thanks for reply.

1. #1 sounds like the OP has seen some air layering
1a. what is "OP"?
1b. what is "air layering"
1c. Do you mean that I am "OP" and have seen some "air layering" that
looks like
procedure I have described in making the mash from the leaves?
Maybe I am an "OP", whatever it means (hope nothing bad). But I
definitely did not see "air layering". The reason I have come out with
this idea is very simple.
If you have a cut, before it heals there is some kind of liquid coming
to surface of the wound. Not only healing process needs it but I am
sure it is faster with it than without it.
If you use analogy more to the plant you would try to do same thing
with the plant.
When the wound on human body heals, even there is some foreign body
(e.g. splinter) in the wound, the juice will cover it and wound will
heal even there is a foreign body inside The wound. I would think that
something similar will happen with the plant and even better since the
plants are more primitive than animals the process of fusion must be
more successfull than with the species from animal kingdom.
So, this is where my idea comes from. Again, I am sure that somebody
who does grafting may see a lot of obstacles in this. This is Ok,
because I am almost sure that answer lies somewhere between gardening
and genetics. I am just trying to get information from people versed in
gardening, so when next time I will try this issue with people versed
in genetics I will be able to use terminology from gardening (e.g.
buds, "cambium", "OP", "air layering")

2. apple leaves do not contain undifferentiated (stem) cells. In
order to clone, these
are necessary. They can be found in buds and in cambium, but not
in leaves.
2a.undifferentiated (stem) cells) Can you, please in couple of
words explain to me what does it mean "undifferentiated (stem) cells)".
As apposed to "differentiated (stem) cells"? Can you give me example
from the plants of "differentiated stems cells"?
From animal world? Both. Differentiated" and "Undifferentiated"?

2b.are you saying that if I try buds or "cambium" I have better chance
than leaves?
2c. What is "cambium"?

Thanks again.
Please, do not use my ignorance in the issues, that seems obvious to
you. against me.
I am just interested and want to try things without going to school. I
do not have time for that and also think that simple things that you
do in garden do not need an university degree.
If it would, than how all our ancestors were able at the time when
there was not even "public school" concept domesticate animals and
breed plants that we use today.
And most of it has happened 10,000 to 20,000 years ago, when there was
not yet a written language around. Would not you agree that people that
did it did not have formal education in genetics or biology?
So, if they could why we can not? You would not think that "education
hurts" and we are less intelligent than they have been?

3tomatoes from 90 feet in the air
3.aFirst, why 90? why not 10-15? something that is easy to reach.
3.bSecond, who has said that you would have to climb to pick it up?
Maybe it is cheaper to shake the tree and catch it in soft net? An then
just carefully unfold the net and it all roll in in some kind of
bunker? Also only the tomatoes that are ripe enough to fall down from
shaking? Maybe depending on how strong is the shaking you can insure
only certain degree of ripeness? Would not you want to eat ripe
tomatoes instead of green being picked up? Maybe the tomato that grows
this way will be not only sweet but also hard enough? This way you do
not have to pick up individual tomatoes? Also this way they do not fall
on the soil and get spoiled before you pick them up.?
3c.Who has said that the only right way to pick up tomatoes is to walk
between the rows and use your hands? I have been driving and have seen
some kind of combain that goes , cuts complete plant, chews it up and
spits out the leaves and branches on one side and tomato on the other.
Probably very expensive machine, but it does work, and can do in one
day what probably 200-300 people in a day do.

3d.Would not you think that instead of watering an acre, if you water
it from the top of the tree you would have to water just 100-200 square
feet?

4.90 feet in the air
4.aAt 90 feet I would plant something that when living and doing some
excretion, would benefit the tomatoes living at 10-15 feet. Maybe
something that excreets some additional food the tomatoes need. Or
water. Or fertilizer? I do not know.
First I want to grow the tomato at 10 feet. Then we can make next step
and think how to utilize space at 20 feet.

Elizabeth wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...

"Mark" wrote in message
ups.com...
Somebody knowledgeable in grafting probably will laugh at this,
but,
please, dont.
Anyway, here is what I want I know and what I want to do:
What I know can be doneeven I have never done that) make
pears grow
on apple tree by attaching a branch from pear tree to the
trunk or
spot on apple tree wher the aple tree branch is coming from.


You could with the right technique graft apples and pears with
some degree
of success.

Now questions.

#1. Will this scenarioo work?
I cut out 10-15 cm of the skin from the branch of apple tree;
just the
skin not going deep in the wood. Then I take apple leaves;
water, blend
it in the blender a little bit until I have a paste. Put this
paste in
the pouch made from cooton towel.
Put in the pouch a seedling of apple tree with some soild
soil. Make
sure the seedlings go thru the hole in the pouch as if it would
look
when you buy it from the store; just instead of the pot it is
in the
pouch.
Place the pouch on the top of tree "wound". Tie it up to the
branch
with wet piece of the same towel. Tie it up. Keep it moist. Can
I
expect the new apple tree penetrate the branch, fuse with it,
and
starting to grow?

Sounds crazy to me. Where on earth did you get this from?


#2. You probably ask why all this so complicated, when it can
be done
much easier with regular grafting. Reason for that is that, if
the
answer to question # 1 is "yes"; what I really want is to try
instead
of planting apple tree; what I want is to try something like
plant a
tomato plant on the branch of equaliptyus tree. Now it is
probably from
the realm of scince fiction or is it possible?


You will not have any joy trying to graft widely different
species together,
the only reason apples and pears might work is that they are
closely
related.

BTW what is an "equaliptyus tree" ? If you mean "eucalyptus" no
chance with
a tomato.

David


#1 sounds like the OP has seen some air layering. Some significant
issues to overcome would include the fact that apple leaves do not
contain undifferentiated (stem) cells. In order to clone, these
are necessary. They can be found in buds and in cambium, but not
in leaves. Therefore the apple leaves can not develop roots, bark
or any other type of cell. Science fiction.

#2 Tomatoes and eucalytpus are about as closely related as
giraffes and goldfish. Different genes, chromosomes and
physiology, not to mention how difficult it would be to pick
tomatoes from 90 feet in the air. Bad science fiction.

--
elizabeth, Baton Rouge, LA
http://community.webshots.com/user/elott63

Perhaps you should have used such moderate tones and researched arguments
before instead of shooting from the hip with such bald (and wrong)
statements as "no way" and "Yes, they are both fruits. Closely related, I
don't think so" Then it would have been apparent that we are both saying
the same thing to the OP in different ways.

David