I have been procrastinating about starting from seeds. But there
is no time like the present. Especially inspired by the recent
thread about it.

Anyway, I have seen some people talk about heating pads. But,
would it work OK to just put the the seed tray on top of the
refrigerator?

It is getting towards winter here, in another month. And I only
heat the room where I am personally located. It can get rather
cold in the kitchen at night.

Note that, my local climate is OK for spinach, broccoli, etc, to
go outside during winter. They just grow slow.

Thanks...


--
Get Credit Where Credit Is Due
http://www.cardreport.com/
Credit Tools, Reference, and Forum

wrote:
I have been procrastinating about starting from seeds. But there
is no time like the present. Especially inspired by the recent
thread about it.

Anyway, I have seen some people talk about heating pads. But,
would it work OK to just put the the seed tray on top of the
refrigerator?

It is getting towards winter here, in another month. And I only
heat the room where I am personally located. It can get rather
cold in the kitchen at night.

Note that, my local climate is OK for spinach, broccoli, etc, to
go outside during winter. They just grow slow.

Thanks...




The best results I've ever had was this year when I took some
unusually-hard-to-sprout pepper seeds to work, planted in a Tupperware
container and put them on the back of my computer monitor during the
days. I took them off at night and removed the lids and let them cool
off and breathe. I got almost 100% germination in about a week and the
seedlings are now strong and healthy. Last year the same seeds took
almost a month to get maybe 10% germination and the seedlings were weak
not a single one survived. The bottom heat was the only difference.

On top of the fridge is probably pretty good; it depends where the
condenser coils are.

Bob

In article ,
zxcvbob wrote:

wrote:
I have been procrastinating about starting from seeds. But there
is no time like the present. Especially inspired by the recent
thread about it.

Anyway, I have seen some people talk about heating pads. But,
would it work OK to just put the the seed tray on top of the
refrigerator?

It is getting towards winter here, in another month. And I only
heat the room where I am personally located. It can get rather
cold in the kitchen at night.

Note that, my local climate is OK for spinach, broccoli, etc, to
go outside during winter. They just grow slow.

Thanks...




The best results I've ever had was this year when I took some
unusually-hard-to-sprout pepper seeds to work, planted in a Tupperware
container and put them on the back of my computer monitor during the
days. I took them off at night and removed the lids and let them cool
off and breathe. I got almost 100% germination in about a week and the
seedlings are now strong and healthy. Last year the same seeds took
almost a month to get maybe 10% germination and the seedlings were weak
not a single one survived. The bottom heat was the only difference.

On top of the fridge is probably pretty good; it depends where the
condenser coils are.

Bob

Last year I got about a 50% germination rate on all seeds when I put
them in a drawer under our water bed. This year with a hot pad and grow
lights I'm getting about a 90% germination rate. Different plants have
different needs.
- Bill
Cloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

zxcvbob wrote in news:59lbftF2j2tvaU1
@mid.individual.net:

The best results I've ever had was this year when I took some
unusually-hard-to-sprout pepper seeds to work, planted in a Tupperware
container and put them on the back of my computer monitor during the
days. I took them off at night and removed the lids and let them cool
off and breathe. I got almost 100% germination in about a week and the
seedlings are now strong and healthy. Last year the same seeds took
almost a month to get maybe 10% germination and the seedlings were weak
not a single one survived. The bottom heat was the only difference.

Funny you should mention that. When I make no-knead bread I put it on my
computer monitor to rise -- works like a charm.

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:37:21 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
wrote:

zxcvbob wrote in news:59lbftF2j2tvaU1
:

The best results I've ever had was this year when I took some
unusually-hard-to-sprout pepper seeds to work, planted in a Tupperware
container and put them on the back of my computer monitor during the
days. I took them off at night and removed the lids and let them cool
off and breathe. I got almost 100% germination in about a week and the
seedlings are now strong and healthy. Last year the same seeds took
almost a month to get maybe 10% germination and the seedlings were weak
not a single one survived. The bottom heat was the only difference.

Funny you should mention that. When I make no-knead bread I put it on my
computer monitor to rise -- works like a charm.

Dang, cain't do thet nohow on flat screen...

Mebbe heating pad on low setting?

Persephone

Persephone wrote in :

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:37:21 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
wrote:

zxcvbob wrote in news:59lbftF2j2tvaU1
:

The best results I've ever had was this year when I took some
unusually-hard-to-sprout pepper seeds to work, planted in a
Tupperware container and put them on the back of my computer monitor
during the days. I took them off at night and removed the lids and
let them cool off and breathe. I got almost 100% germination in
about a week and the seedlings are now strong and healthy. Last
year the same seeds took almost a month to get maybe 10% germination
and the seedlings were weak not a single one survived. The bottom
heat was the only difference.

Funny you should mention that. When I make no-knead bread I put it on
my computer monitor to rise -- works like a charm.

Dang, cain't do thet nohow on flat screen...

Mebbe heating pad on low setting?

Persephone


For the seeds or the bread?

I've heard of people using that for seeds.

wrote:
I have been procrastinating about starting from seeds. But there
is no time like the present. Especially inspired by the recent
thread about it.

Anyway, I have seen some people talk about heating pads. But,
would it work OK to just put the the seed tray on top of the
refrigerator?

Works for me every year (except the year I let the peppers and celery
dry out)

Kate

wrote in message
...
I have been procrastinating about starting from seeds. But there
is no time like the present. Especially inspired by the recent
thread about it.

Anyway, I have seen some people talk about heating pads. But,
would it work OK to just put the the seed tray on top of the
refrigerator?




I use the top of the fridge, but lighting might be a problem. Give it a try
and see what develops.



--
Get Credit Where Credit Is Due
http://www.cardreport.com/
Credit Tools, Reference, and Forum

Dwayne wrote:
wrote in message
...
I have been procrastinating about starting from seeds. But there
is no time like the present. Especially inspired by the recent
thread about it.

Anyway, I have seen some people talk about heating pads. But,
would it work OK to just put the the seed tray on top of the
refrigerator?




I use the top of the fridge, but lighting might be a problem. Give it a try
and see what develops.



As soon as you see the first sprout, you can move them to good lighting;
they don't need the bottom heat anymore.

Bob

I start my tomato and pepper seeds placed in a piece of damp paper
towel placed in a small Baggie and put on my cable box. After about
three days or four days, they've begun sprouting and then I plant them
in starting mix. They've always been successful this way. Even if
the little sprout has grown into the paper I just leave that little
piece and plant it with the sprout in it.

Ceil Wallace

On Apr 29, 11:55 pm, Usenet2...@THE-
DOMAIN-IN.SIG wrote:
I have been procrastinating about starting from seeds. But there
is no time like the present. Especially inspired by the recent
thread about it.

Anyway, I have seen some people talk about heating pads. But,
would it work OK to just put the the seed tray on top of the
refrigerator?

It is getting towards winter here, in another month. And I only
heat the room where I am personally located. It can get rather
cold in the kitchen at night.

Note that, my local climate is OK for spinach, broccoli, etc, to
go outside during winter. They just grow slow.

Thanks...

--
Get Credit Where Credit Is Duehttp://www.cardreport.com/
Credit Tools, Reference, and Forum

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:36:31 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
wrote:

Persephone wrote in :

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:37:21 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
wrote:

zxcvbob wrote in news:59lbftF2j2tvaU1
:

The best results I've ever had was this year when I took some
unusually-hard-to-sprout pepper seeds to work, planted in a
Tupperware container and put them on the back of my computer monitor
during the days. I took them off at night and removed the lids and
let them cool off and breathe. I got almost 100% germination in
about a week and the seedlings are now strong and healthy. Last
year the same seeds took almost a month to get maybe 10% germination
and the seedlings were weak not a single one survived. The bottom
heat was the only difference.

Funny you should mention that. When I make no-knead bread I put it on
my computer monitor to rise -- works like a charm.

Dang, cain't do thet nohow on flat screen...

Mebbe heating pad on low setting?

Persephone


For the seeds or the bread?

I've heard of people using that for seeds.

Hmmm...seeds, I guess. Never made no-knead bread.
A friend of mine used a bread machine, but I don't know if that
qualifies for "no-knead".

BTW - the Chinese, who were way ahead of us on much* --
the peasants channeled the heat from their household fires into pipes
that ran under the ground and provided nice heat for germinating
seeds.

* of course they're STILL ahead of us on environmental pollution,
summary executions, imprisonment for free speech/writing,
and now contaminated pet food. There were recently articles in the
media about how that plastic waste melamine had been used to bulk up
"protein" for years to unwitting users in China itself. One can see
how they could get away with it in a totalitarian state, but it's
hard to excuse exporting this stuff to the U.S.

Hard? Not at all! The ******* Administration has CUT the FDA
inspection resources, while we are importing four times as much
food as in the past. (Foreign food exporters laugh behind their hands,
knowing how easy it is to dump bad food in the U.S. because of the
dearth of inspection resources.)

Somehow that equation doesn't work out. But wait! It is more
important -- rather than adequately fund the FDA -- to use our money
to kill our soldiers in Iraq, kill innocent Iraqui civilians, AND
enrich the Halliburton-type contractors as well as our
private mercenary armies** doing business Over There.

**Which number almost as many as the "official" army figures
quoted by the Pentagon.

Persephone

OOps- excuse top posting; I didn't realize this was posted
to more than one NG. However...if anyone finds it informative...

Persephone

On Wed, 02 May 2007 09:13:58 -0700, Persephone wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:36:31 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
wrote:

Persephone wrote in :

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:37:21 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
wrote:

zxcvbob wrote in news:59lbftF2j2tvaU1
:

The best results I've ever had was this year when I took some
unusually-hard-to-sprout pepper seeds to work, planted in a
Tupperware container and put them on the back of my computer monitor
during the days. I took them off at night and removed the lids and
let them cool off and breathe. I got almost 100% germination in
about a week and the seedlings are now strong and healthy. Last
year the same seeds took almost a month to get maybe 10% germination
and the seedlings were weak not a single one survived. The bottom
heat was the only difference.

Funny you should mention that. When I make no-knead bread I put it on
my computer monitor to rise -- works like a charm.

Dang, cain't do thet nohow on flat screen...

Mebbe heating pad on low setting?

Persephone


For the seeds or the bread?

I've heard of people using that for seeds.

Hmmm...seeds, I guess. Never made no-knead bread.
A friend of mine used a bread machine, but I don't know if that
qualifies for "no-knead".

BTW - the Chinese, who were way ahead of us on much* --
the peasants channeled the heat from their household fires into pipes
that ran under the ground and provided nice heat for germinating
seeds.

* of course they're STILL ahead of us on environmental pollution,
summary executions, imprisonment for free speech/writing,
and now contaminated pet food. There were recently articles in the
media about how that plastic waste melamine had been used to bulk up
"protein" for years to unwitting users in China itself. One can see
how they could get away with it in a totalitarian state, but it's
hard to excuse exporting this stuff to the U.S.

Hard? Not at all! The ******* Administration has CUT the FDA
inspection resources, while we are importing four times as much
food as in the past. (Foreign food exporters laugh behind their hands,
knowing how easy it is to dump bad food in the U.S. because of the
dearth of inspection resources.)

Somehow that equation doesn't work out. But wait! It is more
important -- rather than adequately fund the FDA -- to use our money
to kill our soldiers in Iraq, kill innocent Iraqui civilians, AND
enrich the Halliburton-type contractors as well as our
private mercenary armies** doing business Over There.

**Which number almost as many as the "official" army figures
quoted by the Pentagon.

Persephone

Persephone wrote in :

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:36:31 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
wrote:

Persephone wrote in :

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:37:21 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
wrote:

zxcvbob wrote in news:59lbftF2j2tvaU1
:

The best results I've ever had was this year when I took some
unusually-hard-to-sprout pepper seeds to work, planted in a
Tupperware container and put them on the back of my computer
monitor
during the days. I took them off at night and removed the lids and
let them cool off and breathe. I got almost 100% germination in
about a week and the seedlings are now strong and healthy. Last
year the same seeds took almost a month to get maybe 10%
germination
and the seedlings were weak not a single one survived. The bottom
heat was the only difference.

Funny you should mention that. When I make no-knead bread I put it
on
my computer monitor to rise -- works like a charm.

Dang, cain't do thet nohow on flat screen...

Mebbe heating pad on low setting?

Persephone


For the seeds or the bread?

I've heard of people using that for seeds.

Hmmm...seeds, I guess. Never made no-knead bread.
A friend of mine used a bread machine, but I don't know if that
qualifies for "no-knead".


Nope. No bread machine or long bouts of kneading needed for this bread.
It makes fantastic bread, too. Here you go:

Best-selling cookbook author Mark BIttman is the creator and author of
the popular New York Times weekly column, "The Minimalist," and one of
the country's best-known and widely admired food writers. His flagship
book, How to Cook Everything, is currently in its fourteenth printing and
has, in its various formats, sold over a million copies.

Mark is also a regular guest on the “Today” show and NPR's “All Things
Considered” and has also appeared on countless national and local radio
and television shows. He has been profiled in this country's leading
newspapers, including the Boston Globe, Washington Post, and Los Angeles
Times.

No Knead Bread – Original Recipe
Yield: One 1 1/2-pound loaf

Time: About 1 1/2 hours plus 14 to 20 hours’ rising

3 cups all-purpose or bread flour, more for dusting
1/4 teaspoon instant yeast
1 1/4 teaspoons salt
Cornmeal or wheat bran as needed.

In a large bowl combine flour, yeast and salt. Add 1 5/8 cups water, and
stir until blended; dough will be shaggy and sticky. Cover bowl with
plastic wrap. Let dough rest at least 12 hours, preferably about 18, at
warm room temperature, about 70 degrees. (This is where the computer
monitor comes in handy.)

Dough is ready when its surface is dotted with bubbles. Lightly flour a
work surface and place dough on it; sprinkle it with a little more flour
and fold it over on itself once or twice. Cover loosely with plastic wrap
and let rest about 15 minutes.

Using just enough flour to keep dough from sticking to work surface or to
your fingers, gently and quickly shape dough into a ball. Generously coat
a cotton towel (not terry cloth) with flour, wheat bran or cornmeal; put
dough seam side down on towel and dust with more flour, bran or cornmeal.
Cover with another cotton towel and let rise for about 2 hours. When it
is ready, dough will be more than double in size and will not readily
spring back when poked with a finger.

At least a half-hour before dough is ready, heat oven to 450 degrees. Put
a 6- to 8-quart heavy covered pot (cast iron, enamel, Pyrex or ceramic)
in oven as it heats. When dough is ready, carefully remove pot from oven.
Slide your hand under towel and turn dough over into pot, seam side up;
it may look like a mess, but that is O.K. Shake pan once or twice if
dough is unevenly distributed; it will straighten out as it bakes. Cover
with lid and bake 30 minutes, then remove lid and bake another 15 to 30
minutes, until loaf is beautifully browned. Cool on a rack.

No Knead Bread – Optional Recipes

WEIGHT VS. VOLUME - The original recipe contained volume measures, but
for those who prefer to use weight, here are the measurements: 430 grams
of flour, 345 grams of water, 1 gram of yeast and 8 grams of salt. With
experience, many people will stop measuring altogether and add just
enough water to make the dough almost too wet to handle.

SALT - Many people, me included, felt Mr. Lahey’s bread was not salty
enough. Yes, you can use more salt and it won’t significantly affect the
rising time. I’ve settled at just under a tablespoon.


YEAST - Instant yeast, called for in the recipe, is also called rapid-
rise yeast. But you can use whatever yeast you like. Active dry yeast can
be used without proofing (soaking it to make sure it’s active).


TIMING - About 18 hours is the preferred initial rising time. Some
readers have cut this to as little as eight hours and reported little
difference. I have not had much luck with shorter times, but I have gone
nearly 24 hours without a problem. Room temperature will affect the
rising time, and so will the temperature of the water you add (I start
with tepid). Like many other people, I’m eager to see what effect warmer
weather will have. But to those who have moved the rising dough around
the room trying to find the 70-degree sweet spot: please stop. Any normal
room temperature is fine. Just wait until you see bubbles and well-
developed gluten — the long strands that cling to the sides of the bowl
when you tilt it — before proceeding.


THE SECOND RISE - Mr. Lahey originally suggested one to two hours, but
two to three is more like it, in my experience. (Ambient temperatures in
the summer will probably knock this time down some.) Some readers almost
entirely skipped this rise, shaping the dough after the first rise and
letting it rest while the pot and oven preheat; this is worth trying, of
course.


OTHER FLOURS - Up to 30 percent whole-grain flour works consistently and
well, and 50 percent whole-wheat is also excellent. At least one reader
used 100 percent whole-wheat and reported “great crust but somewhat
inferior crumb,” which sounds promising. I’ve kept rye, which is
delicious but notoriously impossible to get to rise, to about 20 percent.
There is room to experiment.


FLAVORINGS -The best time to add caraway seeds, chopped olives, onions,
cheese, walnuts, raisins or whatever other traditional bread flavorings
you like is after you’ve mixed the dough. But it’s not the only time; you
can fold in ingredients before the second rising.


OTHER SHAPES - Baguettes in fish steamers, rolls in muffin tins or
classic loaves in loaf pans: if you can imagine it, and stay roughly
within the pattern, it will work.


COVERING BETWEEN RISES - A Silpat mat under the dough is a clever idea
(not mine). Plastic wrap can be used as a top layer in place of a second
towel.


THE POT - The size matters, but not much. I have settled on a smaller pot
than Mr. Lahey has, about three or four quarts. This produces a higher
loaf, which many people prefer — again, me included. I’m using cast iron.
Readers have reported success with just about every available material.
Note that the lid handles on Le Creuset pots can only withstand
temperatures up to 400 degrees. So avoid using them, or remove the handle
first.


BAKING - You can increase the initial temperature to 500 degrees for more
rapid browning, but be careful; I scorched a loaf containing whole-wheat
flour by doing this. Yes, you can reduce the length of time the pot is
covered to 20 minutes from 30, and then increase the time the loaf bakes
uncovered. Most people have had a good experience baking for an
additional 30 minutes once the pot is uncovered.

As these answers demonstrate, almost everything about Mr. Lahey’s bread
is flexible, within limits. As we experiment, we will have failures.
(Like the time I stopped adding flour because the phone rang, and didn’t
realize it until 18 hours later. Even this, however, was reparable). This
method is going to have people experimenting, and largely succeeding,
until something better comes along. It may be quite a while.

In article , Persephone
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:36:31 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
wrote:

Persephone wrote in :

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:37:21 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
wrote:

zxcvbob wrote in news:59lbftF2j2tvaU1
:

The best results I've ever had was this year when I took some
unusually-hard-to-sprout pepper seeds to work, planted in a
Tupperware container and put them on the back of my computer monitor
during the days. I took them off at night and removed the lids and
let them cool off and breathe. I got almost 100% germination in
about a week and the seedlings are now strong and healthy. Last
year the same seeds took almost a month to get maybe 10% germination
and the seedlings were weak not a single one survived. The bottom
heat was the only difference.

Funny you should mention that. When I make no-knead bread I put it on
my computer monitor to rise -- works like a charm.

Dang, cain't do thet nohow on flat screen...

Mebbe heating pad on low setting?

Persephone


For the seeds or the bread?

I've heard of people using that for seeds.

Hmmm...seeds, I guess. Never made no-knead bread.
A friend of mine used a bread machine, but I don't know if that
qualifies for "no-knead".

BTW - the Chinese, who were way ahead of us on much* --
the peasants channeled the heat from their household fires into pipes
that ran under the ground and provided nice heat for germinating
seeds.

* of course they're STILL ahead of us on environmental pollution,
summary executions, imprisonment for free speech/writing,
and now contaminated pet food. There were recently articles in the
media about how that plastic waste melamine had been used to bulk up
"protein" for years to unwitting users in China itself. One can see
how they could get away with it in a totalitarian state, but it's
hard to excuse exporting this stuff to the U.S.

Hard? Not at all! The ******* Administration has CUT the FDA
inspection resources, while we are importing four times as much
food as in the past. (Foreign food exporters laugh behind their hands,
knowing how easy it is to dump bad food in the U.S. because of the
dearth of inspection resources.)

Somehow that equation doesn't work out. But wait! It is more
important -- rather than adequately fund the FDA -- to use our money
to kill our soldiers in Iraq, kill innocent Iraqui civilians, AND
enrich the Halliburton-type contractors as well as our
private mercenary armies** doing business Over There.

**Which number almost as many as the "official" army figures
quoted by the Pentagon.

Persephone

That's not really fair Persephone. Our ******* Administration is trying
to catch up on environmental pollution ( Clean Air Act, Clean Water
Act, burn more coal and, build "nucular" acts), summary executions (if
you are categorized an enemy combatant, you can bend over and kiss it
good-bye), imprisonment for free speech/writing (if your not embedded,
you are a target {Palestine Hotel, Al Jazeera, Giuliana Sgrena, ect.}),
and now contaminated pet food (an acceptable fib in China where it is
added to all animal feeds to improve scores on protein assays). What
food products do we import from China? Does your butt fall off
immediately or do you wait 10 years and get Type II diabetes or, twenty
years and get cancer?

If we could just stop those "little Eichmans", maybe the world would
stop being so mad at us. Well at least we won't have Halliburton to kick
around anymore. They took our tax dollars and ran to Dubai to avoid
taxes. I hope they grab Cheney before he skips out of the country. Can
it belong before Blackwater and, Custer Battle come to a town near you?
But I digress . . .

Using Susan's (The Cook) method (God knows where she stole it from but,
she stole a good one.) of florescence lights on top and a heating pad
(low) underneath, I am getting germination of pepper seeds in 5 days.

I think you can see Ruby Ridge from here.

- Bill
Cloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

On Wed, 02 May 2007 11:43:26 -0700, William Rose
wrote:

In article , Persephone
wrote:

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:36:31 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
wrote:

Persephone wrote in :

On Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:37:21 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
wrote:

zxcvbob wrote in news:59lbftF2j2tvaU1
:

The best results I've ever had was this year when I took some
unusually-hard-to-sprout pepper seeds to work, planted in a
Tupperware container and put them on the back of my computer monitor
during the days. I took them off at night and removed the lids and
let them cool off and breathe. I got almost 100% germination in
about a week and the seedlings are now strong and healthy. Last
year the same seeds took almost a month to get maybe 10% germination
and the seedlings were weak not a single one survived. The bottom
heat was the only difference.

Funny you should mention that. When I make no-knead bread I put it on
my computer monitor to rise -- works like a charm.

Dang, cain't do thet nohow on flat screen...

Mebbe heating pad on low setting?

Persephone


For the seeds or the bread?

I've heard of people using that for seeds.

Hmmm...seeds, I guess. Never made no-knead bread.
A friend of mine used a bread machine, but I don't know if that
qualifies for "no-knead".

BTW - the Chinese, who were way ahead of us on much* --
the peasants channeled the heat from their household fires into pipes
that ran under the ground and provided nice heat for germinating
seeds.

* of course they're STILL ahead of us on environmental pollution,
summary executions, imprisonment for free speech/writing,
and now contaminated pet food. There were recently articles in the
media about how that plastic waste melamine had been used to bulk up
"protein" for years to unwitting users in China itself. One can see
how they could get away with it in a totalitarian state, but it's
hard to excuse exporting this stuff to the U.S.

Hard? Not at all! The ******* Administration has CUT the FDA
inspection resources, while we are importing four times as much
food as in the past. (Foreign food exporters laugh behind their hands,
knowing how easy it is to dump bad food in the U.S. because of the
dearth of inspection resources.)

Somehow that equation doesn't work out. But wait! It is more
important -- rather than adequately fund the FDA -- to use our money
to kill our soldiers in Iraq, kill innocent Iraqui civilians, AND
enrich the Halliburton-type contractors as well as our
private mercenary armies** doing business Over There.

**Which number almost as many as the "official" army figures
quoted by the Pentagon.

Persephone

That's not really fair Persephone. Our ******* Administration is trying
to catch up on environmental pollution ( Clean Air Act, Clean Water
Act, burn more coal and, build "nucular" acts), summary executions (if
you are categorized an enemy combatant, you can bend over and kiss it
good-bye), imprisonment for free speech/writing (if your not embedded,
you are a target {Palestine Hotel, Al Jazeera, Giuliana Sgrena, ect.}),
and now contaminated pet food (an acceptable fib in China where it is
added to all animal feeds to improve scores on protein assays). What
food products do we import from China? Does your butt fall off
immediately or do you wait 10 years and get Type II diabetes or, twenty
years and get cancer?

If we could just stop those "little Eichmans", maybe the world would
stop being so mad at us. Well at least we won't have Halliburton to kick
around anymore. They took our tax dollars and ran to Dubai to avoid
taxes. I hope they grab Cheney before he skips out of the country. Can
it belong before Blackwater and, Custer Battle come to a town near you?

Believe me, I wasn't trying to go easy on our proto-totalitarian
regime! I just hesitated to get too OT on this amiable NG.
Unleashed, I could froth on for infinite bytes.

Small byte: At least SOMEBODYelse knows that our military deliberately
targeted and murdered journalists from Al Jazeera and Spain. BTW, I
understand a Spanish magistrate has now demanded that the US extradite
the ?? responsible for the deliberate targeting of the Palestine Hotel
(after Al Jazeera carefully gave them the exact coordinates, required
by our military). This is the tip of the iceberg: "Non-approved"
journalists were routinely turned back from entering Iraq; how many
others were killed, one wonders.

The military, and their political bosses, sure learned their lesson!
Allowing unrestricted reporting from Vietnam so outraged the public
that it eventually ended the war, notwithstanding Nixon's sabotage of
the Paris peace talks -- only cost another few thousand American
soldier lives...chickenfeed...

Too bad they didn't learn that OTHER little "lesson" -- Never get
involved in a land war in Asia!

Persephone


But I digress . . .

Using Susan's (The Cook) method (God knows where she stole it from but,
she stole a good one.) of florescence lights on top and a heating pad
(low) underneath, I am getting germination of pepper seeds in 5 days.

I think you can see Ruby Ridge from here.

Not to mention Waco!

- Bill
Cloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)