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#16
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Lest we forget
In article ,
Gary Woods wrote: "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote: The US needs a Labor Day rather than a Libery Day or are you all just happy to sit back and continue to be screwed forever? No argument at all there... the minimum wage is government set, and especially in the current labor market employers generally don't pay more than they have to. The fact remains that the customer should be aware of the situation and not take the mean-spirited "They're already getting paid to do this; I'm not giving them any more" approach. In some places a gratuity is added to the bill up front. Not common in the U.S. except for large groups. Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G If you know, going-in, that the wait-staff will expect a tip, and you go in anyway, what are you saying but, "OK, I agree to the terms of service". Saying that, the range of tips that I have left, range from $50 to 1 cent (I didn't want him to think that I forgot). If you receive less than satisfactory service, leave a less than satisfactory tip, and conversely, if you have enjoyed your service, reward accordingly. They could have put you next to the toilets. -- - Billy "For the first time in the history of the world, every human being is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html |
#17
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Lest we forget
Billy wrote in
t.au: We are given a lollypop and the pillage continues. HELLO! Billy, he's had just over 3 *months* and the Republicans in Congress are fighting him tooth & nail. what the hell do you think *anyone* can get done in 3 months, especially considering the plate of manure he was handed (2 useless, unwinnable wars, an economy in the tank, and a really greedy Congress with both parties in bed with whoever pays most- big Ag, big Pharma, etc). give the guy some working room will you. he's not the Wizard of Oz. lee |
#18
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Lest we forget
"Gary Woods" wrote in message
No argument at all there... the minimum wage is government set, and especially in the current labor market employers generally don't pay more than they have to. :-)) Excuses excuses. Employers will use them all the time - just a variation on a theme. When it was boom times the excuse was that if they paid staff more it would eat into their competive advantage (and often that was accompanied by "and cause jobs to be driven offshore". I know the latter doesn't apply to the restaurant trade but I'll bet you've heard it.) In some places a gratuity is added to the bill up front. In reality, that sounds very like the business is eefectively charging the full cost of the service. That to me is a more effective way of paying the staff what they should be paid for the work they do. |
#19
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Lest we forget
Charlie wrote in message
... On Sun, 3 May 2009 16:19:18 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote: Charlie wrote in message On Sun, 3 May 2009 14:06:09 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote: Your response makes me think even more strongly that a Labor Day is more appropriate than a Liberty Day. And here we arguing differing customs in two different countries, eh? Let's be careful. Charlie you never, ever disappoint me :-)) I knew you'd figure it out. :-)) Yeah sure, after I went all amerocentric and temporarily lost my focus... :-)) Thanks for the vote of confidence, but give me enough time and I might! ;-) :-)))))) http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g1...Etiquette.html http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g2...Etiquette.html Is the information in this site correct? That the minimum wage is nearly double in oz what it is in the US? Dunno, but I know I nearly fell of my chair after 9/11 when I read years ago in another ng that the new people employed to do security at US airports were being paid $US3/hour. That is so low that no-one should be expected to work for that, ever. Pay rates depend on the job of course but if there is no Award that covers the job then the minmum you can be paid by law is $14.31/hour which works out to $10.48 in your money. Traditionally we don't have many people who'd be on minimum wages. What is an Award? Ah! Quick and dirty definition: An Award is an agreement that includes conditons of service (annual leave, Leave loadings, sick leave, Long Service Leave, hours of work, dispute resolution mechanisms, rates of pay and such like) and is negotiated between the employer and the union with coverage for that industry (in the case of a big employer) or, in the case of small businesses it will be negotiated between the unions and the employers organisation that covers those types of businesses. Awards are registered with either a State government or the Federal Government and are legally binding. So an employer who doesn't pay the amount of salary that staff are entitled to, the employer will be taken to court by the government, etc, right across the things covered in the Award. Tipping certainly isn't common here other than at good restaurants. The one we went to the other day is not the sort of place where you'd normal tip anytime. What about benefits? How many servers in the US are elible for or receive benefits? Damn few. Ummm not sure what you are asking here. Used to be, less common now with the tits-upedness of the economy, a good job came with company paid health insurance and oftimes a pension plan of sort. Few years back, during the height of unionbusting and such, since the Reagan years in particular, union busting and very active antiunion methods have been employed. Ah! Here people pay their own health coverage or if they don't choose to do so, they are covered by a Federal government scheme called Medicare. Traditionally here the sort of benefits staff could commonly expect to get are a minimum of 3 weeks annual leave (but increasingly commonly, 4 weeks), 9% of salary paid by the employer to superannuation, somewhere between 1-2 weeks sick leave on full pay/year (sometimes also 1-2 weeks half pay sick leave/year) and 1-3 months Long Service Leave on full pay after 10 years service. These things only apply to full time staff - if you are a worker employed casually, you generally get a 10-20% higher hourly rate of pay because you don't get leave of any sort (except in some case such as the job I have, we get Long Service leave after 10 years or in our case and other older workers, we get pro rata Long Service leave if we resign after 2 years) - you still get supperannuation paid by the employer as a casual. Charlie I'd never bust your balls. I might give them a little poke like I have in this series of posts though. Hmmm...that must have been what caused me to be.....testy. :-)) Yes I suspected as much, even though I didn't set out to poke your goolies at all. or someone who stands for fairp(l)ay you better consider the wage differences, if I read them correctly. Yes. That is why you workers in the US need a Labor day along with all that implies. You are being screwed and that appalls me. Hell yeah we are, and when the unemployment rate is at least fifteen percent (ignore the official gummint fudged figures, actual is double the reporting) there are plent of hungry who don't care about unionization. Indeed. Our unemployment rate is being reported as being 7% but then they shove some workers off into other categories of what you'd call welfare so the rate is hidden. What server is going to give more than minimal service to someone who is not going to tip or comes across with the attitude you describe, in the US? I wouldn't and I'd hazard a guess that you wouldn't either. Nope. I'd be out there joining a union and fighting for the rights of workers in your situation. I've been engaged in a lot of union stouches on both sides of the fence, as a negotiator on behalf of management and as a negotiator on behalf of workers. Union organization is a rough go. Been there, and been involved in the organization, at one job I had. We pulled it off, but it was a hell of a fight and then a continual fight. :-)) Yep. I've got the Tee shirt too. My place of work has been undergoing a process of negotiating for a new agreement and although I wasn't on the team this time round, I threw a total wobbly at a recent managment staff meeting. The dopy *******s who were representing staff had let a clause through to the final draft because they didn't understand what it meant. I asked management for an explanation and hit the roof when they confirmed what I'd thought. Management was trying to introduce a clause into our new agreement that was immoral and unconscionable. And believe me, me chucking a wobbly is NOT a pretty sight. I told them they were trying to perpetrate a fraud, that they'd only try to use that clause once and after that they'd be out there doing our jobs themselves because they'd suddenly find that all casual staff were "unavailable" on a particular working day - being casual we can choose not to come in because thay have no means of compelling us to do so. They've now changed the clause. You rightly observe that many americans are rude towards aussies Nope, I didn't observe that. My mistake. and I observe that when in another's country you observe local and national customs in order that you don't appear a ****ing dick. Tell your husband to consult a travel guide. Waste of time Charlie. He may have ben highly competent at his job before he retired but you wouldn't let him out alone if you had any sense. In Chicago he asked a black woman how to get somewhere and he and another white middle class white Australian Honkie (is that the term?) went the way she'd go. They ended up on a train where they were the only white faces and then got off the train in what was a black slum where they were the only white faces in sight. Even I had trouble believing he'd be so silly but you should hear what an American friend who lives in New York says about it. I don't give a fat baby's ass how you do or don't tip in your local, but don't have the arrogance to assume that your attitude and custom towards this issue is the ****all end of the matter. Huh? Now you've dropped into a vernacular that I don't understand at all. Just as well, as I was being a bit angry and....testy, after getting me nuts poked and missing the point a bit. I understood that there was testiness there but I just couldn't translate it into a form of English that I can understand. Just as well perhaps? ;-) |
#20
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Lest we forget
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
Ah! Quick and dirty definition: An Award is an agreement that includes conditons of service (annual leave, Leave loadings, sick leave, Long Service Leave, hours of work, dispute resolution mechanisms, rates of pay and such like) We'd just call that a Union Contract. And yes, companies here too try to slip in apparently harmless clauses that can be used to their advantage. The labor climate here in the U.S. the past some years is such that many such contracts are pretty toothless. Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G |
#21
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Lest we forget
"Gary Woods" wrote in message
Charlie wrote: Pete Seeger: The Power of Song I watched this last night on our local PBS station; Pete lives just down the Hudson river a ways, (snip) Yeah, old Pete is getting on; he only entertained for 45 minutes that day. Nice to hear that he's still alive and can manage that amount of time. he must be very old by now. |
#22
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Lest we forget
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
Nice to hear that he's still alive and can manage that amount of time. he must be very old by now. Should have mentioned- Yesterday, 5/4, was Pete Seeger's 90th birthday. He was at a celebration at Madison Square Garden in New York City for it; I'm sure video will follow. Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G |
#23
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Lest we forget
"Gary Woods" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote: Nice to hear that he's still alive and can manage that amount of time. he must be very old by now. Should have mentioned- Yesterday, 5/4, was Pete Seeger's 90th birthday. Wow. And still performing. What a legend. He was at a celebration at Madison Square Garden in New York City for it; I'm sure video will follow. :-)) Wouldn't that be a DVD these days? Or should that be a 'blue ray' something or other (says she not knowing what the hell 'blue ray' means anyway) |
#24
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Lest we forget
people in the rest of the world where labor and management have something of mutual
respect have absolutely no idea of the hatred American business has for unions. My father organized unions and I live in the area where union organizers were gunned down. businesses will hire companies that specialize in preventing or breaking unions and spend themselves into bankruptcy before they will deal with a union. they will shut their business down before dealing with a union. I had a temp job one summer and watched this process first hand. There were only 8 women (they would never hire a man) who did sterility testing (some wanted to join a union). Because I was hired to write the procedural manuals he felt free to spew his anti-union venom around me. It was an education! What is particularly vicious is the banks are using taxpayer bailout money to lobby congress against the latest attempt to level the playing field for unions, the "card check" bill. I have a young friend raised by those of the corporate mentality and so terrified of "others" that they would not think of leaving their pure white suburban/rural village to come into our multi-racialethnic city for any reason what-so-ever. She lives in a mental straight jacket and is only gradually emerging in tiny steps. It is truly pathetic to see how limited her life is especially since she is otherwise a highly intelligent and engaging person. Thankfully, this new young next generation raised on the internet has been exposed to a view of the world other than their parents terror and hatred of anybody and anything different than themselves, and seems to be embracing a social philosophy of inclusiveness. Ingrid |
#25
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Lest we forget
In article ,
enigma wrote: Billy wrote in t.au: We are given a lollypop and the pillage continues. HELLO! Billy, he's had just over 3 *months* and the Republicans in Congress are fighting him tooth & nail. what the hell do you think *anyone* can get done in 3 months, especially considering the plate of manure he was handed (2 useless, unwinnable wars, an economy in the tank, and a really greedy Congress with both parties in bed with whoever pays most- big Ag, big Pharma, etc). give the guy some working room will you. he's not the Wizard of Oz. lee He could decline Presidential Privilege. He made torture illegal for the Army. He could have done the same thing to the C.I.A. He could allow, not encourage, allow a legal review of the previous administration actions. We have stopped paying the Sunni militias to stand down (just in time for the elections) and violence is on the rise again in Iraq. Afghanistan is a nightmare that is just starting to unfold. Every innocent person that our troops, or "drones", kill gives rise to more people who want vengeance against the western powers. Obama said that he would bring the wars to an end and now we are positioned to have 50,000 combat troops in Iraq indefinitely (no mention of the 150,000 mercenaries that we have there) and he is ramping up the war in Afghanistan. If we wanted peace, we could have it on the cheap (comparatively) by not involving ourselves in Iraqi politics (but then, they are our own, aren't they?) and just build water treatment plants, and power generation stations (infrastructure). Then we would be seen as a liberators and not occupiers. We had a chance to say that the errors of the past, died with the last administration. If we continue the errors, suppression of oil producing countries (and countries where we want to place oil pipelines) will be seen as a "set" element of American foreign policy. We have a chance for a new beginning, people want to think that Obama is a good man. We are "offered" intelligent, thoughtful changes in energy production to improved relations with Cuba, just about everything except for the pillaging of the national wealth and reputation. Instead of a government of, by and for the people, the government seems poised to suppress dissent. -- - Billy "For the first time in the history of the world, every human being is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html |
#26
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Lest we forget
wrote in message
people in the rest of the world where labor and management have something of mutual respect have absolutely no idea of the hatred American business has for unions. That is a parochial statment. But then of course no-one outside the US would have ever heard of Jimmy Hoffa would they? Thankfully, this new young next generation raised on the internet has been exposed to a view of the world other than their parents terror and hatred of anybody and anything different than themselves, and seems to be embracing a social philosophy of inclusiveness. I suspect you are being overly optimistic. |
#27
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Lest we forget
Charlie wrote in message
On Mon, 4 May 2009 23:54:11 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given "Truth springs from argument amongst friends." I count myself fortunate to have misunderstandings and arguments with you. Thanks for the continuing education, Fran. Gosh. That's stopped me in my tracks as it's far more of a compliment than I deserve. Thank you Charlie, I feel quite humbled. |
#28
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Lest we forget
Charlie wrote in message
On Wed, 6 May 2009 17:25:01 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote: Thank you Charlie, I feel quite humbled. Well now, old china, I guess we're even. :-) LOL. I didn't know I was supposed to be keeping a score....... |
#29
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Lest we forget
Charlie wrote in message
Lovey yelled out to my manhole and had me turn on the telly where they were showing a fruit called Chocolate Pudding Fruit...looking it up on-the-line it was called Black Sapote. You had it or have it? It sounds delightful. Never eaten it but read about it lots of times. It needs far more warmth than where I live. I have trouble keeping a lemon tree alive outside so Sapote is out for me. |
#30
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Lest we forget
"FarmI" wrote: Charlie wrote: Lovey yelled out to my manhole and had me turn on the telly where they were showing a fruit called Chocolate Pudding Fruit...looking it up on-the-line it was called Black Sapote. You had it or have it? It sounds delightful. Never eaten it but read about it lots of times. It needs far more warmth than where I live. I have trouble keeping a lemon tree alive outside so Sapote is out for me. When I lived in Belize the various types of sapote were very popular ice cream flavors. Sapote trees should grow wherever citrus grows. Many tropical fruits do not ship well but Hispanic markets often sell a variety frozen and as beverages. http://www.thefruitpages.com/chocolatefruit.shtml |
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