Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#31
|
|||
|
|||
Return On Investment
In article ,
Steve Daniels wrote: On Mon, 28 Jun 2010 18:26:01 -0700, against all advice, something compelled Billy , to say: There are an increasing number of studies showing enhanced levels of vitamins in organic produce. Cite three. Thank you. http://www.rawfoodexplained.com/the-...e-against-comm ercially-grown-foods.html http://www.plantmanagementnetwork.org/pub/cm/symposium/organics/delate/ http://www.rawfoodlife.com/Articles_...commercial_foo d/organic_vs_commercial_food.htm http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/107555301750164244 http://www.twnside.org.sg/title2/susagri/susagri018.htm http://www.ota.com/organic/benefits/nutrition.html http://www.organixentral.co.uk/rutgers.html -- - Billy "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/2...al_crime_scene |
#32
|
|||
|
|||
Return On Investment
In article ,
"songbird" wrote: Billy wrote: ... The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals by Michael Pollan p.45 - 46 http://www.amazon.com/Omnivores-Dile...ls/dp/01430385 83/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815576&sr=1-1 The reason Greene County is no longer green for half the year is because the farmer who can buy synthetic fertility no longer needs cover crops to capture a whole year's worth of sunlight he has plugged himself into a new source of energy. When you add together the natural gas in the fertilizer to the fossil fuels it takes to make the pesticides, drive the tractors, and harvest, dry, and transport the corn, you find that every bushel of industrial corn requires the equivalent of between a quarter and a third of a gallon of oil to grow it gallons of oil per acre of corn. (Some estimates are much higher.) Put another way, it takes more than a calorie of fossil fuel energy to produce a calorie of food; before the advent of chemical fertilizer the Naylor farm produced more than two calories of food energy for every calorie of energy invested. ... ok, i see where the 1 calorie amount comes from, but i see hand waving for the 2 calorie amount. is that detailed some other place? songbird I don't want to seem patronizing, so I'll just give you his bibliography. CHAPTER 1: THE PLANT: CORN'S CONQUEST In addition to the printed sources below, I learned a great deal about the natural and social history of Zea mays from my conversations with Ricardo Salvador at Iowa State (www.public.iastate.edu/~rjsalvad/home.html) and Ignacio Chapela at the University of California at Berkeley. Ignacio introduced me to his colleague Todd Dawson, who not only helped me understand what a C-4 plant is, but generously tested various foods and hair samples for corn content using his department's mass spectrometer. The two indispensable books on the history of corn a Fussell, Betty The Story of Corn (New York: Knopf, 1994). Columbus's quote on corn is on page 17. The statistics on wheat versus corn consumption are on page 215. Warman, Arturo. Corn & Capitalism: How a Botanical ******* Grew to Global Dominance. Trans. Nancy L. Westrate (Chapel Hill: University of North Carolina Press, 2003). Other helpful works touching on the history of corn include: Anderson, Edgar. Plants, Man and Life (Berkeley: University of California Press, 1952). Crosby, Alfred W Germs, Seeds & Animals: Studies in Ecological History (Armonk, NY: . M. E. Sharpe, 1994). ‹‹‹‹. Ecological Imperialism: The Biological Expansion of Europe, 900-1900 (Cam- bridge, U.K.: Cambridge University Press, 1986). Diamond, Jared. Guns, Germs, and Steel (New York: W W Norton, 1997). Eisenberg, Evan. The Ecology of Eden (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1998). Very good on the coevolutionary relationship of grasses and humankind. Iltis, Hugh H. "FromTeosinte to Maize: The Catastrophic Sexual Mutation," Science 222, no. 4626 (November 25, 1983). Mann, Charles C. 1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 2005). Excellent on the evolutionary origins of the plant and pre-Columbian maize agriculture. Nabhan, G. P. Enduring Seeds: Native American Agriculture and Wild Plant Conservation (San Francisco: North Point Press, 1989). Rifkin, Jeremy. Beyond Beef: The Rise and Fall of the Cattle Culture (New York: Plume, 19 93). The quote from General Sheridan is on page 78. Sargent, Frederick. Corn Plants: Their Uses and Ways of Life (Boston: Houghton Mifnin,1901). ' Wallace, H. A., and E. N. Bressman. Corn and Corn Growing (New York: JohnWiley &Sons, 1949). Weatherford, Jack. Indian Givers: How the Indians of the Americas Transformed the World (New York: Crown, 1988). Will, George F., and George E. Hyde. Corn Among the Indians of the Upper Missouri (Lincoln: University of Nebraska Press, 1917). ----- I await your report. -- - Billy "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/2...al_crime_scene |
#33
|
|||
|
|||
Return On Investment
In article ,
"songbird" wrote: Billy wrote: ... Shooting the shit is fine, but without authority, it is just babbling, today's authority is sometimes wrong. i worked for 7 people who were authorities and they were a lost cause. and so i don't trust authorities blindly and find most popular works too light on rigor... Great, so to counter balance lack of rigor, you offer none? What do you use to justify your beliefs on up and down, good and bad, right or wrong? because of that i have been trying to get a hold of more studious works lately. i was reading a college level plant physiology textbook a few weeks ago and it ignored so many topics and instead focused on the pet topics of the various contributors. You were reading an anthology by various authors writing about subjects that they supposedly would know the most? don't get me wrong, it was a good book for me to read but it was very incomplete and i was afraid that many students who had this as their only plant physiology book would be missing so much. You expected all of plant physiology in one book? Kinda makes you wonder what the other 40 units were all about. now i am looking for other good reads, so recommend away and i will line some of them up and see what they have to offer. and logic is only as good as its premise. if it's valid. You quoted links? Citation please. only those you included, but many i did not follow because i was offline (as i am now). You argue, but give no supporting authority: divine revelation, inspired intuition, bull shit? Who knows? You offer no argument for your denigration of organic food. tossing citations back and forth with no personal interpretation on your part isn't a conversation. Since we haven't done the original work, it's my authorities against your authorities. tell me when you cite a link what it means to you and how it is lived by you. otherwise you are a shadow boxer. lame do you garden? how do you garden? what do you garden? I thought we were talking about the irrelevance of organic food. Why are you wandering off, or are you jut trying to change the subject? or i am here to babble then. Looks like it. songbird -- - Billy "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/2...al_crime_scene |
#34
|
|||
|
|||
Return On Investment
In article ,
"songbird" wrote: Billy wrote: songbird wrote: ... we have wandered far afield, but i'm going to return and ask about the two calorie output vs one Billy pulled out of ? This is called "Modeling Behavior". on the catwalk... shake it Billy. Well, that lowered the level. The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals by Michael Pollan p.45 - 46 http://www.amazon.com/Omnivores-Dile...ls/dp/01430385 83/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815576&sr=1-1 The reason Greene County is no longer green for half the year is because the farmer who can buy synthetic fertility no longer needs cover crops to capture a whole year's worth of sunlight he has plugged himself into a new source of energy. When you add together the natural gas in the fertilizer to the fossil fuels it takes to make the pesticides, drive the tractors, and harvest, dry, and transport the corn, you find that every bushel of industrial corn requires the equivalent of between a quarter and a third of a gallon of oil to grow it gallons of oil per acre of corn. (Some estimates are much higher.) Put another way, it takes more than a calorie of fossil fuel energy to produce a calorie of food; before the advent of chemical fertilizer the Naylor farm produced more than two calories of food energy for every calorie of energy invested. you need to mark the citations quotes differently from your own words. i cannot tell if the following remark is yours or the "authority" you are citing... It's one paragraph, what do you think? From the standpoint of industrial efficiency, it's too bad we can't simply drink the petroleum directly. not an EPA approved use of that material! i am shocked at you Billywonkanobi. ( ) and the other question for Billy is how does organic gardening sequester carbon dioxide? improving soil is good, mixing organic stuff in and making all the various critters happy is great, but that is nutrient cycling not carbon sequestration... we need carbon sequestration at this point. can we get that via organic gardening methods at present? Only in terms of bio-mass, unless you include "terra preta", and its charcoal. *ding ding!* Teaming with Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis Ch.1, second paragraph. http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb.../dp/0881927775 /ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815176&sr= 1-1 In addition to all the living organisms you can see in garden soils (for example, there are up to 50 earthworms in a square foot [0.09 square meters] of good soil), there is a whole world of soil organisms that you cannot see unless you use sophisticated and expensive optics. Only then do the tiny, microscopic organisms nematodes A mere teaspoon of good garden soil, as measured by microbial geneticists, contains a billion invisible bacteria, several yards of equally invisible fungal hyphae, several thousand protozoa, and a few dozen nematodes. do you know that there are places where earth worms are not native and they are considered alien invasive species? have you studied any forest floor ecologies? Are you trying to say something? It's really not that hard. Gaia's Garden, Second Edition: A Guide To Home-Scale Permaculture (Paperback) by Toby Hemenway p.78 http://www.amazon.com/Gaias-Garden-S...ulture/dp/1603 580298/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271266976&sr=1-1 Like most living things, leaves are made primarily of carbon-containing compounds: sugars, proteins, starches, and many other organic molecules. ... 1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus : Charles C. Mann http://www.amazon.com/1491-Revelatio...mbus/dp/140003 2059/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269536235&sr=1-1 ... Trees store vast amounts of carbon in their trunks, branches, and leaves. When they die or people cut them down, the carbon is usually released into the atmosphere, driving global warming. Experiments by Makoto Ogawa of the Kansai Environmental Engineering Center, near Kyoto, Japan, demonstrated that charcoal retains its carbon in the soil for up to fifty thousand years. ah yes, that's a helpful idea and i suspect people will be amending away. since it is a lighter material i may include some in my tulip bed topping soil mix. i really need to study charcoal production methods... perhaps a solar oven could do it... gotta go look now. still gotta do it. *sigh* i'm sensitive to smoke though that it would have to be a pretty well engineered device. *mad scientist chuckle* songbird -- - Billy "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/2...al_crime_scene |
#35
|
|||
|
|||
Return On Investment
In article ,
"songbird" wrote: now i am looking for other good reads, so recommend away and i will line some of them up and see what they have to offer. "Vegetable Gardener' Bible" by Edward C. Smith. http://www.amazon.com/Vegetable-Gard...Gardening/dp/1 580172121/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815454&sr=1-1 "How to Grow More Vegetables" by John Jeavons http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b/...=search-alias% 3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=How+to+Grow+More+Vegetables&x=0&y=0 Teaming with Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb.../dp/0881927775 /ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815176&sr= 1-1 Gaia's Garden, Second Edition: A Guide To Home-Scale Permaculture (Paperback) by Toby Hemenway http://www.amazon.com/Gaias-Garden-S...ulture/dp/1603 580298/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271266976&sr=1-1 Creative Propagation [Illustrated] (Paperback) by Peter Thompson (Author), Owen Josie (Illustrator) http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Propa...dp/0881926817/ ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1273249143&sr=1-1 Let it Rot!: The Gardener's Guide to Composting (Third Edition) (Storey's Down-to-Earth Guides) (Paperback) by Stu Campbell http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/158..._p14_i1?pf_rd_ m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1HT31JNNBYN5BXFZS2EA&pf_rd_t=101 &pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846 The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals by Michael Pollan http://www.amazon.com/Omnivores-Dile...ls/dp/01430385 83/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815576&sr=1-1 In Defense of Food: An Eater's Manifesto by Michael Pollan http://www.amazon.com/Defense-Food-E...114964/ref=sr_ 1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238974366&sr=1-1 Stolen Harvest: The Hijacking of the Global Food Supply by Vandana Shiva http://www.amazon.com/Stolen-Harvest...y/dp/089608607 0/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238974474&sr=1-10 What to Eat by Marion Nestle http://www.amazon.com/What-Eat-Mario...ref=sr_1_1?ie= UTF8&s=books&qid=1238974909&sr=1-1 Seeds of Deception: Exposing Industry and Government Lies About the Safety of the Genetically Engineered Foods You're Eating (Paperback) by Jeffrey M. Smith http://www.amazon.com/Seeds-Deceptio...y-Engineered/d p/0972966587/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247180992&sr=1-1 € ISBN-10: 0972966587 € ISBN-13: 978-0972966580 Food Politics: How the Food Industry Influences Nutrition, and Health, Revised and Expanded Edition (California Studies in Food and Culture) by Marion Nestle http://www.amazon.com/Food-Politics-...lifornia/dp/05 20254031/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1244222934&sr=1-2 € ISBN-10: 0520254031 € ISBN-13: 978-0520254039 American Pests: The Losing War on Insects from Colonial Times to DDT by James E. McWilliams http://www.amazon.com/American-Pests...l/dp/023113942 X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238975011&sr=1-1 General Viticulture by A. J. Winkler, James A. Cook, W. M. Kliewer, Lloyd A. Lider http://www.amazon.com/General-Viticu...025911/ref=sr_ 1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238975081&sr=1-1 The Fatal Harvest Reader by Andrew Kimbrell http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b_...stripbooks&fie ld-keywords=fatal+harvest+reader&sprefix=Fatal+Ha Seed to Seed: Seed Saving and Growing Techniques for Vegetable Gardeners, by Suzanne Ashworth and Kent Whealy http://www.amazon.com/Seed-Growing-T...deners/dp/1882 424581/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1238951517&sr=1-1 1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus : Charles C. Mann http://www.amazon.com/1491-Revelatio...mbus/dp/140003 2059/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269536235&sr=1-1 Good Calories, Bad Calories: Fats, Carbs, and the Controversial Science of Diet and Health ~ Gary Taubes http://www.amazon.com/Good-Calories-...ce/dp/14000334 62/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1267036694&sr=1-1 The World Without Us (Paperback) by Alan Weisman http://www.amazon.com/World-Without-...2427905/ref=sr _1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1274206221&sr=1-1 Related The Revolution will not be Microwaved by Sandor Ellix Katz http://www.amazon.com/Revolution-Wil...round/dp/19333 92118/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1218128128&sr= 1-1 -- - Billy "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/2...al_crime_scene |
#36
|
|||
|
|||
Return On Investment
Billy wrote:
songbird wrote: Billy wrote: songbird wrote: ... we have wandered far afield, but i'm going to return and ask about the two calorie output vs one Billy pulled out of ? This is called "Modeling Behavior". on the catwalk... shake it Billy. Well, that lowered the level. oh c'mon, lighten up a little Billy, i laughed when you got out the clover tiara and really enjoyed the grass skirt shimmy. The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals by Michael Pollan p.45 - 46 http://www.amazon.com/Omnivores-Dile...ls/dp/01430385 83/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815576&sr=1-1 The reason Greene County is no longer green for half the year is because the farmer who can buy synthetic fertility no longer needs cover crops to capture a whole year's worth of sunlight he has plugged himself into a new source of energy. When you add together the natural gas in the fertilizer to the fossil fuels it takes to make the pesticides, drive the tractors, and harvest, dry, and transport the corn, you find that every bushel of industrial corn requires the equivalent of between a quarter and a third of a gallon of oil to grow it gallons of oil per acre of corn. (Some estimates are much higher.) Put another way, it takes more than a calorie of fossil fuel energy to produce a calorie of food; before the advent of chemical fertilizer the Naylor farm produced more than two calories of food energy for every calorie of energy invested. you need to mark the citations quotes differently from your own words. i cannot tell if the following remark is yours or the "authority" you are citing... It's one paragraph, what do you think? i said i could not tell... i think " is a good symbol to use around texts from others... .... Teaming with Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis Ch.1, second paragraph. http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb.../dp/0881927775 /ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815176&sr= 1-1 In addition to all the living organisms you can see in garden soils (for example, there are up to 50 earthworms in a square foot [0.09 square meters] of good soil), there is a whole world of soil organisms that you cannot see unless you use sophisticated and expensive optics. Only then do the tiny, microscopic organisms nematodes A mere teaspoon of good garden soil, as measured by microbial geneticists, contains a billion invisible bacteria, several yards of equally invisible fungal hyphae, several thousand protozoa, and a few dozen nematodes. do you know that there are places where earth worms are not native and they are considered alien invasive species? have you studied any forest floor ecologies? Are you trying to say something? It's really not that hard. the words "good soil" were used in reference to "50 worms per sq ft". not all good soil contains worms. in some places they are invasive and destructive. songbird |
#37
|
|||
|
|||
Return On Investment
Billy wrote:
songbird wrote: Billy wrote: ... Shooting the shit is fine, but without authority, it is just babbling, today's authority is sometimes wrong. i worked for 7 people who were authorities and they were a lost cause. and so i don't trust authorities blindly and find most popular works too light on rigor... Great, so to counter balance lack of rigor, you offer none? What do you use to justify your beliefs on up and down, good and bad, right or wrong? any study of the history of science is rigor enough for the basic arguement i've made here. because of that i have been trying to get a hold of more studious works lately. i was reading a college level plant physiology textbook a few weeks ago and it ignored so many topics and instead focused on the pet topics of the various contributors. You were reading an anthology by various authors writing about subjects that they supposedly would know the most? it was a textbook called _Plant Physiology_ so i expected a broad overview of plant physiology, but they missed a lot of stuff that should be in a basic PP book. i'm glad it was detailed as it was in some parts, but it completely ignored many basic plant phenomena. so i need to find some other text that gets those covered. i've quoted it below so you know which text i'm speaking of. don't get me wrong, it was a good book for me to read but it was very incomplete and i was afraid that many students who had this as their only plant physiology book would be missing so much. You expected all of plant physiology in one book? Kinda makes you wonder what the other 40 units were all about. a college level text should have a broad overview of all aspects of plant physiology even if there is not depth of coverage of some areas it should at least be mentioned and the basics outlined. here i will give you a link and see if you agree. http://4e.plantphys.net/categories.php?t=t i think the following is a more balanced work: http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyT...HEP000221.html but i haven't read it yet. i'm putting it on my request list at the library today. still that looks to be also set up for talking about only certain kinds of plants and my interests are in other forms which don't seem to be covered by either of these books. i'm going to have to keep looking... ah, much better: http://www.amazon.com/Physiology-Flo.../dp/0444874984 that's on my list now. i think i'll bump this ahead of the last since i've already been through most of that already. now i am looking for other good reads, so recommend away and i will line some of them up and see what they have to offer. and logic is only as good as its premise. if it's valid. You quoted links? Citation please. only those you included, but many i did not follow because i was offline (as i am now). You argue, but give no supporting authority: divine revelation, inspired intuition, bull shit? Who knows? You offer no argument for your denigration of organic food. denigration? no, no way, healthy skepticism towards the new priesthood yes. tossing citations back and forth with no personal interpretation on your part isn't a conversation. Since we haven't done the original work, it's my authorities against your authorities. hold it, original work would mean what here? nutritional studies which include liver function tests? long term liver cancer rates vs life span increases? (which is probably available but not really accurate enough because it's not pre-agrichem). tell me when you cite a link what it means to you and how it is lived by you. otherwise you are a shadow boxer. lame no, i just want to see if you live what you quote. do you garden? how do you garden? what do you garden? I thought we were talking about the irrelevance of organic food. Why are you wandering off, or are you jut trying to change the subject? irrelevance? i don't think i've ever said that organic gardening is irrelevant, what i have said is that it's wise to keep some healthy skepticism. songbird |
#38
|
|||
|
|||
Return On Investment
In article ,
phorbin wrote: In article , says... the words "good soil" were used in reference to "50 worms per sq ft". not all good soil contains worms. in some places they are invasive and destructive. Better give a citation for this one. http://www.wormdigest.org/content/view/89/2/ -- Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden What use one more wake up call? |
#39
|
|||
|
|||
Return On Investment
|
#40
|
|||
|
|||
Return On Investment
In article ,
phorbin wrote: In article , says... the words "good soil" were used in reference to "50 worms per sq ft". not all good soil contains worms. in some places they are invasive and destructive. Better give a citation for this one. http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/invasives...rthworms/index. html -- - Billy "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/2...al_crime_scene |
#41
|
|||
|
|||
Return On Investment
In article
, Billy wrote: In article , phorbin wrote: In article , says... the words "good soil" were used in reference to "50 worms per sq ft". not all good soil contains worms. in some places they are invasive and destructive. Better give a citation for this one. Teaming with Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb.../dp/0881927775 /ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815176&sr= 1-1 Ch.1, paragraph 2 "In addition to all the living organisms you can see in garden (HELLO) soils (for example, there are up to 50 earthworms in a square foot [0.09 square meters] of good soil), . . ." ---- We were talking garden soils so she segues into forestry. She is either dense or a troll. http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/invasives...rthworms/index ..html -- - Billy "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/2...al_crime_scene |
#42
|
|||
|
|||
Return On Investment
On Jun 26, 10:50*pm, "songbird" wrote:
* all these chemicals that plants make to defend themselves from predators (including herbivores/ omnivores i.e. us) at some level will be doing some damage and perhaps organic gardening which increases certain chemicals may be increasing Interesting point, obviously the plants have no idea what chemicals they produce contributes to human wellness nor do they care and one has to reconcile the fact that we are living longer then ever on mainly a corn syrup diet |
#44
|
|||
|
|||
Return On Investment
In article
, fsadfa wrote: On Jun 26, 10:50*pm, "songbird" wrote: * all these chemicals that plants make to defend themselves from predators (including herbivores/ omnivores i.e. us) at some level will be doing some damage and perhaps organic gardening which increases certain chemicals may be increasing Consider your source. The chemicals that organic farming increases (more accurately: that factory farming depresses) are flavonoids http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavonoids Plant toxins are usually alkaloids that taste bitter, and are normally avoided because they are repugnant. Interesting point, obviously the plants have no idea what chemicals they produce contributes to human wellness nor do they care Tomato leaves are poisonous, as are rhubarb, however most poisonous plants aren't found in the vegetable garden (surprise, surprise), they are found among the ornamentals that are not likely to be eaten. and one has to reconcile the fact that we are living longer then ever on mainly a corn syrup diet Make that in spite of corn syrup. Obese, type 2, diabetic children aren't going to increase the life expectancy average. -- - Billy "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/2...al_crime_scene |
#45
|
|||
|
|||
Return On Investment
In article ,
phorbin wrote: In article , says... In article , phorbin wrote: In article , says... the words "good soil" were used in reference to "50 worms per sq ft". not all good soil contains worms. in some places they are invasive and destructive. Better give a citation for this one. http://www.wormdigest.org/content/view/89/2/ ...but I wanted songbird to do the work. That said, I knew about the Euroworms in North America but hadn't thought about their takeover affecting native species. It's not a matter of native species. Apparently, northern forests have adapted to piles of un-decomposed leaves. The invasive earthworms do just what all gardeners want them to do, they decompose the leaf litter, thereby changing the forest environment. It is my understanding that this changed environment "may" threaten some species of trees, and plants, but has not done so, so far. Probably need a forester to answer this question. It stands to reason that they would, and that that they would be a problem. -- - Billy "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arn3lF5XSUg http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/2...al_crime_scene |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
AMC: Super Couple of the past return and speculation about their return *spoilers!* | Ponds | |||
Perennials reward your landscape investment | Gardening | |||
Will pine investment be a bad risk now? (Was: New problems with GM corn?) | sci.agriculture | |||
Will pine investment be a bad risk now? | sci.agriculture | |||
alternative investment | alt.forestry |