I honestly do not know of any ISP anymore that charges by the minute, but I
can see the part about the phoneline stuff.

OTOH, if you feel like that's a legitimate issue, then cutting out content
is the way to go. But then you'll be accused of doing that too. Seems like
a no-win circumstance.

If people feel like they don't care to respond to a poster, then it's their
prerogative. But by also crying about netiquette may cause others to not
bother posting at all because they'll be concerned about breaking some
"rule".


"The Cook" wrote in message
...
Of course you can post any way you want to. On the other hand, the
readers are free to read or not read, answer or not answer. If you get
the reputation of "I can post any way I want and to hell the rest of
you", you may find the people who know the answer to your question may
decide not to bother.

Not all ISP get all messages in order. So your idea that everyone
already knows what the thread is about is wrong.

In some places (and the Internet and newsgroups are international)
people have to pay telephone charges and ISP charges, usually by the
minute. So putting your "Me too" or other drivel at either the top
or the bottom of a 200 line message is costing some people money for
downlload time. They soon get the idea the you do not care and simply
kill file you. Too bad if they happen to be the only one who knows
the answer to your question.

And if you want people to take your messages seriously, grammar and
spelling count. I can almost always tell when the poster is not a
person for whom English is a first language. For them, I will spend
time to decipher a question that I may have some information about.
But if it is an obvious English speaker who cannot take the time to
write a message in understandable English, I am not going to take the
time to figure out what they are saying and then find and post an
answer.

Remember, you are not writing for yourself, you are writing to ask for
help or give information to other people. Or if you are writing for
yourself, that is exactly who is reading.

--
Susan N.

There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary
and those who do not.

Sorry for making a big deal about this, I got tired of this, so I
wanted to see what people prefer.
With that said, if somebody doesn't snip a message it may take longer to
download ( I can't imagine you could tell when we are taking bits of data)
A top post contains the same amount of data as a bottom post. So there
is no difference in size that way.
It could take longer to read if you have to look for the reply. That is
where I am lost. Do other mail programs always go to the bottom of the
thread ?
My program opens right to the top where if the person top posted I could
read it and move on. I just can't see bottom being faster.
If being charged for the net by minutes, may I suggest logging on,
downloading your messages and reading them off-line.

As far as announcing that you *plonk* somebody, I feel that this is a
mature discussion, and that by doing that you are not willing to come
with some understanding with the people you disagree with.

I will abide by with what the poll says, the majority rules.

Henriette Kress wrote:

"FDR" wrote:



I honestly do not know of any ISP anymore that charges by the minute,



In Europe? There's LOTS.

Oh, and *plonk*.

Henriette

Wow, there's more rudeness here than on a hockey discussion group.

"Henriette Kress" wrote in message
...
"FDR" wrote:

I honestly do not know of any ISP anymore that charges by the minute,

In Europe? There's LOTS.

Oh, and *plonk*.

Henriette

--
Henriette Kress Helsinki, Finland
Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed

Aaron Baugher wrote:

Brian writes:



A top post contains the same amount of data as a bottom post. So
there is no difference in size that way.



Wrong. Top-posters never trim.

The debate is over top vrs bottom, not trimming posts. The person I
responded to was upset with top posters causing too much bandwidth and
time. A properly trimmed top post takes no long to download then a
properly trimmed bottom post...correct ?

See how my reply to you is much
shorter than if I'd just stuck my response at the top and left your
message (and its parents in the thread) below it?

It is nice to leave it there for a little so you have a reference. After
I read a message it doesn't show up unless I click on show all messages,
find the thread I was reading, and then find the person who replied
before the message I am reading


Also, see how it's clear what part of your message each of my points
is in reply to?

I agree with this fact




It could take longer to read if you have to look for the reply. That
is where I am lost. Do other mail programs always go to the bottom of
the thread ?



No, but that's not necessary. "Bottom-post" is a misnomer. There's
no need to scroll anywhere to read my posts, because my text starts
close to the top, interspersed with the relevant quoted text. You
don't have to scroll to read the new stuff, and you don't have to
scroll to see what I'm replying to. Handy, huh?

I agree posting like this is nice in some cases. One question I have is
why does netscape and others default to top posting when you install it.




If being charged for the net by minutes, may I suggest logging on,
downloading your messages and reading them off-line.



That doesn't change the amount of stuff to be downloaded, which was
the concern.

Sorry another bad snip, If she is sitting there reading each message
online I can see it taking more time to find the response if people
didn't all top post or all bottom post. Your debate comes down to
trimming posts, mine is saying that a top post is the same as a bottom
post, they don't take longer to download.
We are talking text files not jpeg's vrs gif's.




I will abide by with what the poll says, the majority rules.



Mob rule can be an ugly thing.

I don't consider it mob rule, I consider it a Democracy. If more people
want it, then they should get it. We are not talking about pro-choice,
legalizing drugs ect... we are talking about what most people think is
faster and more convenient to them.
Most important is the fact that top posters didn't complain, even though
there are more of them in this group. We just didn't think it was
anything to cry about.....but since they brought it up

Minteeleaf wrote:

B




Mail programs go to whatever part of the post you set them to.
They can be set to either top or bottom.

Why is the default top post ?



*If people would snip appropriately,* it would make reading
posts much easier & it wouldn't matter how they posted.

So really the whole gripe is most top posters don't snip, a lot of
bottom don't either, but since they are on the same side they don't
complain.









I will abide by with what the poll says, the majority rules.



This is usenet. No one rules it.

Thats my point on this. Top posters never complained about people
changing to their way, even though it is easier for us to have everybody
top post (its my opinion)

This "poll" is just that,
hardly a mandate, though I'm sure the OP would like to play netcop.
Lots & lots of netcop wannabees & little tin gods on
self-chosen power trips in usenet land.

I just got tired of the little comments that we are less then human,
stupid, ignorant, or scum because we don't post the same way they do.

Remember we didn't ask anybody to change or insult them because of how
they post.


Minteeleaf

In article , says...
*If people would snip appropriately,* it would make reading
posts much easier & it wouldn't matter how they posted.

In most cases that's right. In the case where the reply is lengthy (i.e.
more than a screen) bottom posting allows the short quote from the prior
post to be seen without scrolling. And enough of the reply to let you
determine whether it's worth it to scroll through the rest :-).

The only time top posting is preferable is when the replier doesn't have
the sense, or the courtesy, to "snip appropriately." That's the main
reason the top posters always give, although they don't phrase it that
way.

So in the main, this IS a discussion about proper quoting ("snipping") of
the posts we reply to.

--
To announce that there must be no criticism of the president or that we
are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic
and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.
Teddy Roosevelt

"Minteeleaf" wrote in message
...

Top posting is your right, but don't expect others to follow
unless they so choose.

Similarly for Bottom posting.

Bob

"Frogleg" wrote in message
...


'bottom-posting' [reply after quoted material) is considered good
netiquette form now, although it sometimes results in that 200-line
quote with "ditto" at the bottom.

In which case, I'd prefer top posting any time.

Bob

I don't care. Wherever the wind blows. Now back to gardening.

/z