Hello,

I recently planted a vegtable garden in our new house and while planting discovered that our soil is clay. At the time I didn't think much of it and continued to plant the tomatos, peppers, basil, peas, squash but after looking online I found that it seems my plants are doomed. That once their roots grow past the hole that was dug for them and filled in w/ good soil and compost that the roots will not be able to penetrate the clay. What do I do know that my plants are already in the ground? Do I dig them up and make bigger holes? Do I let them go and hope for the best? We are planning on making raised beds for our garden later this summer, we just didn't have time right now since we just moved in last weekend. Is there anything to save my veggies?

Thank you for your help!

coykiesaol wrote:
Curiously the Persian cucumbers have started developing mostly females
flowers and only a few males. This morning I had 5 female flowers
opening but only 2 males. So I am wondering, is it possible to hand
pollinate more than 1 female flower with 1 male?

Sure there is lots of pollen to go around, it only takes one grain to do the
job, just dab the stamen on to the stigma of each female. Don't you have
enough bees?

David

Is your soil clay in the sense of being a brick pit the London Brick Company hasn't exploited yet, or just, like most people's clayey soil, rather clayey? In the latter case, if you dig in plenty of organic matter, you'll probably find it is wonderful stuff for growing many kinds of veg.

Plants like peppers and basil often do better in pots than in the ground, because they would prefer a higher soil temperature than British ground often obtains. So don't be downhearted if your attempt to grow them in the ground is disappointing. I grew some peppers in the ground and some in pots last year as an experiment, got almost nothing from the ground-grown ones and lots off the pot-grown ones. Black plastic pots are the best for these purposes, to my wife's aesthetic disappointment.

Pots have always proved to be the most effective for me too. I had a fantastic harvest of chiilies and green perppers last year and it looks like this year should be good too going by the flowers. However theyve always been in pots and not in the ground. :-)

echinosum wrote:
coykiesaol;925894 Wrote:
I recently planted a vegtable garden in our new house and while planting
discovered that our soil is clay. At the time I didn't think much of it
and continued to plant the tomatos, peppers, basil, peas, squash but
after looking online I found that it seems my plants are doomed. That
once their roots grow past the hole that was dug for them and filled in
w/ good soil and compost that the roots will not be able to penetrate
the clay. What do I do know that my plants are already in the ground? Do
I dig them up and make bigger holes? Do I let them go and hope for the
best? We are planning on making raised beds for our garden later this
summer, we just didn't have time right now since we just moved in last
weekend. Is there anything to save my veggies?
Is your soil clay in the sense of being a brick pit the London Brick
Company hasn't exploited yet, or just, like most people's clayey soil,
rather clayey? In the latter case, if you dig in plenty of organic
matter, you'll probably find it is wonderful stuff for growing many
kinds of veg.

Plants like peppers and basil often do better in pots than in the
ground, because they would prefer a higher soil temperature than British
ground often obtains. So don't be downhearted if your attempt to grow
them in the ground is disappointing. I grew some peppers in the ground
and some in pots last year as an experiment, got almost nothing from the
ground-grown ones and lots off the pot-grown ones. Black plastic pots
are the best for these purposes, to my wife's aesthetic disappointment.

When you dig your holes take a good look at the soil. Are there any roots
of the grass or weeds that go deeper than three inches? If not your plants
may do very well. By digging a bigger hole may help and may not. It depends
on the plant. Corn will not grow well. If it rains allot the roots may get
too much water and grow poorly. If it rains occasionally they may survive.
Clay holds water. Could dig a small hole and fill the hole with water. If
the water is still in the hole several hours later it will not be good for
the plants.

Raised beds is the way to go for clay soil.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

In article ,
Nad R wrote:

echinosum wrote:
coykiesaol;925894 Wrote:
I recently planted a vegtable garden in our new house and while planting
discovered that our soil is clay. At the time I didn't think much of it
and continued to plant the tomatos, peppers, basil, peas, squash but
after looking online I found that it seems my plants are doomed. That
once their roots grow past the hole that was dug for them and filled in
w/ good soil and compost that the roots will not be able to penetrate
the clay. What do I do know that my plants are already in the ground? Do
I dig them up and make bigger holes? Do I let them go and hope for the
best? We are planning on making raised beds for our garden later this
summer, we just didn't have time right now since we just moved in last
weekend. Is there anything to save my veggies?
Is your soil clay in the sense of being a brick pit the London Brick
Company hasn't exploited yet, or just, like most people's clayey soil,
rather clayey? In the latter case, if you dig in plenty of organic
matter, you'll probably find it is wonderful stuff for growing many
kinds of veg.

Plants like peppers and basil often do better in pots than in the
ground, because they would prefer a higher soil temperature than British
ground often obtains. So don't be downhearted if your attempt to grow
them in the ground is disappointing. I grew some peppers in the ground
and some in pots last year as an experiment, got almost nothing from the
ground-grown ones and lots off the pot-grown ones. Black plastic pots
are the best for these purposes, to my wife's aesthetic disappointment.

When you dig your holes take a good look at the soil. Are there any roots
of the grass or weeds that go deeper than three inches? If not your plants
may do very well. By digging a bigger hole may help and may not. It depends
on the plant. Corn will not grow well. If it rains allot the roots may get
too much water and grow poorly. If it rains occasionally they may survive.
Clay holds water. Could dig a small hole and fill the hole with water. If
the water is still in the hole several hours later it will not be good for
the plants.

Raised beds is the way to go for clay soil.

Sheez, are you so rich now that you can buy soil, rather than grow it?

Garden Soil

You're garden soil shouldn't be more than 10%, or less than 5% organic
material.

Garden soil should be 30% - 40% sand, 30% - 40% silt, and 20% - 30%
clay. You can check your soil by scraping away the organic material on
top of the ground and then take a vertical sample of your soil to 12 in.
(30 cm) deep (rectangular or circular hole). Mix this with water in an
appropriately large glass (transparent) jar. The sand will settle out
quickly, the silt in a couple of hours, and the clay within a day. The
depth of the layer in relationship to the total (layer/total = % of
composition) is the percent that fraction has in the soil.

Garden soil needs a constant input of nutrients, i.e. carbon, e.g. brown
leaves, and nitrogen, e.g. manure in a ratio of C/N of 25. This is the
same ratio you will what in a compost pile.
-----

Let it Rot!: The Gardener's Guide to Composting (Third Edition)
(Storey's Down-to-Earth Guides)
by Stu Campbell
http://www.amazon.com/Let-Rot-Compos...580170234/ref=
sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1294901182&sr=1-1
(Available a a library near you, until they close)

p.39

Compostable Material Average C/N

Alder or ash leaves ............................ 25

Grass clippings ................................ 25

Leguminous plants (peas,
beans,soybeans) ............................. 15

Manure with bedding ........................... 23

Manure ....................................... 15

Oak leaves .................................... 50

Pine needles .............................. 60-100

Sawdust................................. 150-500

Straw, cornstalks and cobs .................. 50-100

Vegetable trimmings ........................... 25
Aged Chicken ManureÂ*Â*........................Â* 7
Alfalfa ................................................ 12
Newspaper........................................ 175
-----

http://www.composting101.com/c-n-ratio.html

A Balancing Act (Carbon-to-Nitrogen Ratios)


All organic matter is made up of substantial amounts of carbon (C)
combined with lesser amounts of nitrogen (N). The balance of these two
elements in an organism is called the carbon-to-nitrogen ratio (C:N
ratio). For best performance, the compost pile, or more to the point the
composting microorganisms, require the correct proportion of carbon for
energy and nitrogen for protein production. Scientists (yes, there are
compost scientists) have determined that the fastest way to produce
fertile, sweet-smelling compost is to maintain a C:N ratio somewhere
around 25 to 30 parts carbon to 1 part nitrogen, or 25-30:1. If the C:N
ratio is too high (excess carbon), decomposition slows down. If the C:N
ratio is too low (excess nitrogen) you will end up with a stinky pile.
(cont.)
------

No reason to till after the first preparation of the garden (no reason
to till the first/last time but it does speed up soil development).
Spread out your soil amendments:
• N:
• 18.37 lb. chicken manure/ 100 sq.ft. (2.88 oz/sq.ft.)
•
• P:
• 3 lb. / 100/sq.ft. (.48 oz/sq.ft.)
•
• K:
• How much wood ash should you use in your garden? The late Bernard
G. Wesenberg, a former Washington State University Extension
horticulturist, recommended using one gallon of ashes per square
yard on loam to clay-loam soil, and half as much on sandier soils.

http://www.plantea.com/manure.htm
• Manure Chicken Diary cow Horse Steer Rabbit
• N 1.1 .257 .70 .70 2.4
• P .80 .15 .30 .30 1.4
• K .50 .25 .60 .40 .60

•
Sheep Alfalfa Fish Emulsion
• N .70 3 5
• P .30 1 1
• K .90 2 1

• Sources: Rodale's All-New Encyclopedia of Organic Gardening, An
Illustrated Guide to Organic Gardening, by Sunset Publishing, and the
Rodale Guide to Composting.

http://www.plantea.com/manure.htm
• Manure Chicken Diary cow Horse Steer Rabbit
• N 1.1 .257 .70 .70 2.4
• P .80 .15 .30 .30 1.4
• K .50 .25 .60 .40 .60

•
Sheep Alfalfa Fish Emulsion
• N .70 3 5
• P .30 1 1
• K .90 2 1

• Sources: Rodale's All-New Encyclopedia of Organic Gardening, An
Illustrated Guide to Organic Gardening, by Sunset Publishing, and the
Rodale Guide to Composting.
----

Cover this with newspaper (to block light from weeds and provide a
barrier to sprouting weeds). Cover the newspaper with mulch (up to 6" in
depth). Spray the garden bed with water, and wait 6 weeks before
planting (if you can).

A dibble can help with planting. The dinky little ones from the nursery
may be of some help, but I prefer a sharpened, old, shovel handle for
making a hole through the mulch and paper for planting seedlings.

Adding drip lines takes a little time, but saves a lot of time during
the season.

That's all I know.

Good luck.

P.S.

NPK

NPK, as you probably know, describes the content of the major
nutrients necessary for plant life and growth: nitrogen, phos-
phorus, and potassium (K). The numbers on a package of com-
mercial fertilizer tell you the NPK content of the fertilizer. For
example, 10-6-4 means that the fertilizer contains 10 percent
nitrogen, 6 percent phosphorus, and 4 percent potassium.
Fertilizers with NPK numbers of 10-6-4 or 20-10-5 are called
"complete" because they contain a percentage of all three
major nutrients. Superphosphate (0-20-0), on the other hand, is
"incomplete" because it only contains a percentage of phos-
phorus and no significant percentage of either nitrogen or
potassium.

Nitrogen

It may seem that we have belabored the various ways of
getting nitrogen into your compost pile. But never underesti-
mate the importance of nitrogen. It is perhaps the most impor-
tant nutrient of all, mainly because plants themselves contain
so much of it. It gives them their healthy dark green color and
is essential for leaf and stem growth. You will easily recognize a
plant with nitrogen deficiency by its sickly yellow coloring. The
problem with nitrogen is that it is so mobile. That means that it
escapes from compost or soil very easily, either in the form of
gas or by being washed away. One of the most important rea-
sons for composting at all is to restore nitrogen to the soil, so
obviously you should be making as much effort as possible to
store up nitrogen in your compost pile.

Phosphorus

Phosphorus stimulates growth, flowering, and root
development. Cell division is vital to plant growth, and it would
be impossible without the presence of phosphorus. Plants without
phosphorus grow slowly (if at all), look droopy, and have weak
root systems. But phosphorus, unlike nitrogen, is immobile. It
tends to stay for a long time wherever it is applied. It does not
leach and is not given off as a gas.

The best sources of phosphorus are rock phosphate and
bone meal. (Bone meal also contains nitrogen.) Superphosphate
is rock phosphate that has been treated with sulfuric acid to
make it more soluble. Unfortunately, in the treatment process
many of the valuable minor elements of phosphate rock, such
as boron, zinc, nickel, and iodine, have been lost. Phosphate
rock is often added to the compost pile in a light sprinkling
every several layers.

Potassium

Potassium (potash) is necessary for the development of
chlorophyll, that almost magical substance in green plants that
makes the miracle of photosynthesis possible. Potassium also
strengthens plant tissue and makes plants more disease resistant.
Plants that receive too little potassium look stunted. Potassium
washes out of compost quite easily, but it can never escape as a
gas. You can restore it to the heap or the garden by adding
wood ashes, greensand, or muriate of potash.

Many composter-gardeners worry too much about producing
compost with a very high and well-balanced NPK. Would it
be terribly disillusioning to be told that compost is not a miracle
fertilizer? In most good compost, the content of NPK is
actually very low. In fact, it usually does not have a high
enough percentage of NPK to be considered a fertilizer at all.
But you can boost the NPK by adding natural sources of
nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium to your compost pile. Or
worry about nutrients later on and add fertilizer when you mix
compost into your soil.

A cover crop of buckwheat or rye will texture your clay soil nicely, and
red clover or some legume would inject some nitrogen into your soil, if
you got the time. In any event, keep your garden beds covered with mulch
to encourage diverse microorganisms in the soil. The more diverse, the
healthier your garden will be.
--
- Billy

Mad dog Republicans to the right. Democratic spider webs to the left. True conservatives, and liberals not to be found anywhere in the phantasmagoria
of the American political landscape.

America is not broke. The country is awash in wealth and cash.
It's just that it's not in your hands. It has been transferred, in the
greatest heist in history, from the workers and consumers to the banks
and the portfolios of the uber-rich.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/.../michael-moore
/michael-moore-says-400-americans-have-more-wealth-/

Billy wrote:

Raised beds is the way to go for clay soil.

Sheez, are you so rich now that you can buy soil, rather than grow it?


Let it Rot!: The Gardener's Guide to Composting (Third Edition)
(Storey's Down-to-Earth Guides)
by Stu Campbell
http://www.amazon.com/Let-Rot-Compos...580170234/ref=
sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1294901182&sr=1-1
(Available a a library near you, until they close)

Libraries, that word sounds familiar. Do they exist anymore? With all those
government cutbacks these days. Still a good book.

I am financially dirt poor. However, I guess I can count myself lucky that
I can get a pickup load of compost for free every Saturday from the local
recycler. He has good stuff I had it tested from the state, cost $20. I
have my compost piles as well for improving the soil.

However, gardening is not like rocket science. Anyone with half a brain and
a strong back can compost.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)