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Old 07-02-2018, 09:05 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Thought group might be interested in this:

https://cen.acs.org/articles/96/i6/t...-syndrome.html

Fortunately I do not have this problem as a lot of good stuff is on the
bad list.

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Old 08-02-2018, 02:13 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Frank wrote:
Thought group might be interested in this:

https://cen.acs.org/articles/96/i6/t...-syndrome.html

Fortunately I do not have this problem as a lot of good stuff is on the
bad list.


yeah...

i wonder how much they've studied this in combination
with looking at how much complex fiber a person is
getting.

i know for myself that certain dietary things have
helped a lot over the years, but most of my short-term
issues were coming from commercial meats (chicken and
ground stuff). i solved about 80% of my gut episodes
from that alone. the remaining things seem to have
responded well to increasing fiber (fruits, veggies,
beans and whole grains).

i'm very glad i don't have dairy intolerances and
some other things (i really like whole milk plain
yogurt, cheese and once in a while we have ice-cream).

the tomato sensitivity is the one that has come on
the past four years and that's the worst as we really
love tomatoes and almost all our traditional dishes
have tomatoes in them. once in a while i have some
anyways and pay the price...


songbird
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Old 08-02-2018, 06:22 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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On 2/7/2018 8:13 PM, songbird wrote:
Frank wrote:
Thought group might be interested in this:

https://cen.acs.org/articles/96/i6/t...-syndrome.html

Fortunately I do not have this problem as a lot of good stuff is on the
bad list.


yeah...

i wonder how much they've studied this in combination
with looking at how much complex fiber a person is
getting.

i know for myself that certain dietary things have
helped a lot over the years, but most of my short-term
issues were coming from commercial meats (chicken and
ground stuff). i solved about 80% of my gut episodes
from that alone. the remaining things seem to have
responded well to increasing fiber (fruits, veggies,
beans and whole grains).

i'm very glad i don't have dairy intolerances and
some other things (i really like whole milk plain
yogurt, cheese and once in a while we have ice-cream).

the tomato sensitivity is the one that has come on
the past four years and that's the worst as we really
love tomatoes and almost all our traditional dishes
have tomatoes in them. once in a while i have some
anyways and pay the price...


songbird


I found the chemistry interesting as I worked one summer as a lab tech
in a plant lab where sorbitol and mannitol were made from sucrose and
corn sugar and learned a lot about sugar. Sucrose is a disaccharide of
glucose and fructose. We would invert it, i.e. hydrolyze it, with acid
before hydrogenation. Glucose hydrogenates to sorbitol and fructose
converts to 50 50 sorbitol and mannitol. I thought all disaccharides
would not survive in the stomach and like to tell folks that high
fructose corn syrup is the same as honey without the bee pollen.

I did not realize that a disaccharide could not be digested and ended up
fermenting in the colon causing IBS. My wife thinks she is lactose
intolerant and we use no fat lactose free milk. Otherwise maybe other
disaccharides don't bother her but maybe they do. Funny she does not
complain about ice cream.
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Old 08-02-2018, 07:36 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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songbird wrote:

Frank wrote:
Thought group might be interested in this:

https://cen.acs.org/articles/96/i6/t...hats-treating-

irritable-bowel-syndrome.html

Fortunately I do not have this problem as a lot of good
stuff is on the bad list.


yeah...

i wonder how much they've studied this in combination
with looking at how much complex fiber a person is
getting.

i know for myself that certain dietary things have
helped a lot over the years, but most of my short-term
issues were coming from commercial meats (chicken and
ground stuff). i solved about 80% of my gut episodes
from that alone. the remaining things seem to have
responded well to increasing fiber (fruits, veggies,
beans and whole grains).

i'm very glad i don't have dairy intolerances and
some other things (i really like whole milk plain
yogurt, cheese and once in a while we have ice-cream).

the tomato sensitivity is the one that has come on
the past four years and that's the worst as we really
love tomatoes and almost all our traditional dishes
have tomatoes in them. once in a while i have some
anyways and pay the price...


songbird


Is it the acid in the tomato that causes you problems?

I seem to remember reading several years ago about some
varieties of tomatoes that are bred to be lower acid than
"standard" or heirloom varieties. That was back when they
began recommending home canners add acid in the form of
lemon juice, vinegar, or ascorbic acid granules to their
home-canned tomatoes before processing.

If the acid is causing you problems, perhaps trying to
grow a few of the low-acid varieties might give you some
relief and allow you to enjoy your old recipes.

Just a thought.

Nyssa, who still hasn't found an affordable type of fencing
for her garden beds

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Old 08-02-2018, 10:33 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Nyssa wrote:
....
Is it the acid in the tomato that causes you problems?


i wish it was, but no, it is something else and not
a digestive problem, it ends up being a skin rash. i
can get away with a slice of tomato here or there or
a squirt of ketchup on a burger once in a while, but
that is about it.

i had a sloppy joe today, first one in a few years,
i'll be interested to see how close to the line i came
and if i skirted it or not... last year i had lasagna
for a week and i did pay for that, but it was worth it.



I seem to remember reading several years ago about some
varieties of tomatoes that are bred to be lower acid than
"standard" or heirloom varieties. That was back when they
began recommending home canners add acid in the form of
lemon juice, vinegar, or ascorbic acid granules to their
home-canned tomatoes before processing.


yes. i'm pretty aware of acid/non-acid issues in
food processing because we only do non-pressure cooked
items. pickles, tomatoes and tomato juice are what we
do the most of these days. anything low acid gets
frozen.


If the acid is causing you problems, perhaps trying to
grow a few of the low-acid varieties might give you some
relief and allow you to enjoy your old recipes.

Just a thought.

Nyssa, who still hasn't found an affordable type of fencing
for her garden beds


we've managed to get lucky a few times and have other
people give us their fences. it is hodge-podge looking
in places, but ...


songbird


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Old 08-02-2018, 11:01 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Frank wrote:
....
I did not realize that a disaccharide could not be digested and ended up
fermenting in the colon causing IBS. My wife thinks she is lactose
intolerant and we use no fat lactose free milk. Otherwise maybe other
disaccharides don't bother her but maybe they do. Funny she does not
complain about ice cream.


of course not! but i know a few people who
won't eat it because of the lactose.


songbird
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Old 09-02-2018, 04:40 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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songbird wrote:

Nyssa wrote:
...
Is it the acid in the tomato that causes you problems?


i wish it was, but no, it is something else and not
a digestive problem, it ends up being a skin rash. i
can get away with a slice of tomato here or there or
a squirt of ketchup on a burger once in a while, but
that is about it.

i had a sloppy joe today, first one in a few years,
i'll be interested to see how close to the line i came
and if i skirted it or not... last year i had lasagna
for a week and i did pay for that, but it was worth it.



I seem to remember reading several years ago about some
varieties of tomatoes that are bred to be lower acid than
"standard" or heirloom varieties. That was back when they
began recommending home canners add acid in the form of
lemon juice, vinegar, or ascorbic acid granules to their
home-canned tomatoes before processing.


yes. i'm pretty aware of acid/non-acid issues in
food processing because we only do non-pressure cooked
items. pickles, tomatoes and tomato juice are what we
do the most of these days. anything low acid gets
frozen.


If the acid is causing you problems, perhaps trying to
grow a few of the low-acid varieties might give you some
relief and allow you to enjoy your old recipes.

Just a thought.

Nyssa, who still hasn't found an affordable type of
fencing for her garden beds


we've managed to get lucky a few times and have other
people give us their fences. it is hodge-podge looking
in places, but ...


songbird


The rash reminds me of a problem I had when I was very
young...kindergarten age...when I developed a rash on
my elbows. It was thought that I was allergic to tomatoes
or strawberries and the doctor just prescribed some
cream to put on the rash.

I liked both tomatoes and strawberries, so I wasn't too
pleased with either not eating them or the smelly cream.

By the next year, I was happily eating both strawberries
and tomatoes and no rash returned...ever.

Odd that I seemed to have out-grown the problem and that
you have grown *into* the problem.

Maybe if you're lucky you will *out* grow the problem
you grew into. lol

As for the deer and critter problem, I'm now thinking
about planting an herb garden in one bed close to the
deer pathway to discourage them from approaching the
real food in the other beds plus planting some marigolds
around the edges of other beds.

Plus I have a short length of chicken wire I may try
around a vegetable bed when it's getting started to
discourage the deer from nibbling down to nubs.

More ideas are welcome. Anything that's free or
inexpensive, that is.

Nyssa, who figures spending hundreds on fencing to
protect a few vegetables isn't very frugal

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Old 09-02-2018, 05:37 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Nyssa wrote:
....
The rash reminds me of a problem I had when I was very
young...kindergarten age...when I developed a rash on
my elbows. It was thought that I was allergic to tomatoes
or strawberries and the doctor just prescribed some
cream to put on the rash.

I liked both tomatoes and strawberries, so I wasn't too
pleased with either not eating them or the smelly cream.

By the next year, I was happily eating both strawberries
and tomatoes and no rash returned...ever.

Odd that I seemed to have out-grown the problem and that
you have grown *into* the problem.

Maybe if you're lucky you will *out* grow the problem
you grew into. lol


i surely do wish it to be so. after eating tons of
tomatoes over my lifetime to have that come along... Mom
sometimes doesn't remember when she cooks she's so used
to making things her way.

i used to go out and pick them and eat quite a
few and also while processing to put them up, i'd
nibble bits and pieces here and there. the toughest
thing to remember is to not drink the extra juice
at the end of a canning run.

and one of our favorite easy meals is macaroni
and tomatoes or tomato juice.

well, pretty much any italian dish we made had
plenty of tomatoes in there and that was the basic
cuisine of ours (me being half italian). when i
was off living on my own a small can of tomato paste
could be a snack at times.

i really miss the umami flavor that comes from
them in so many ways.

we don't grow as many tomatoes now that i can't
eat them, but Mom will still use them for her cooking
she does for other people. today she'll be making
goulash.


As for the deer and critter problem, I'm now thinking
about planting an herb garden in one bed close to the
deer pathway to discourage them from approaching the
real food in the other beds plus planting some marigolds
around the edges of other beds.


we've found out that it may help, but don't count on
it. when we have years with really deep snow the deer
will come along and eat the cedar trees and the rabbits
will too along with chewing off some of the bark on
other plants (including poison sumac, but i think we
finally got rid of that invasion).

even plants that are touted as "deer proof" may get
sampled by young deer before they learn and given enough
young deer samples it can still do in some plants. so
we've learned that anything we want protected must be
fenced.


Plus I have a short length of chicken wire I may try
around a vegetable bed when it's getting started to
discourage the deer from nibbling down to nubs.

More ideas are welcome. Anything that's free or
inexpensive, that is.

Nyssa, who figures spending hundreds on fencing to
protect a few vegetables isn't very frugal


exactly my thinking for fencing the rest of the yard
i don't want to spend a lot of money for what is pretty
much extra and non-essential gardens, but when the deer
and rabbits eat a lot of the strawberries out there i
do grumble a bit. i'm expanding my strawberry patches
outside the fences because i also like them as a ground-
cover plant beside the berries. some years i've gotten
plenty of extra berries and then there are years like
last season where i barely had any (between the late
frost and deer/rabbits grazing).

the good news is that it is a one-time expense and
if the fence is strong (chicken wire is too thin to last
very long IMO) it should last long enough to pay for
itself.

we've already invested in fencing the main veggie gardens
and that was only a few hundred $ at the time, but the
mistake there was the wrong kind of fence along the bottom
which does not really exclude rabbits or groundhogs.
and i was surprised to see the groundhogs climbing to get
through.

for discouraging chipmunks you need even finer mesh
(1/2 inch or less). nothing plastic has ever been
worth it. it crumbles or tears too easy, rabbits will
chew right through it, etc.

anyways, there is still quite a bit of room inside the
main fenced gardens that i could use. i expanded my
strawberry patch a few years ago and there is still
hundreds of square feet i can reclaim from pathways and
the carpeting/limestone mulched areas which are just
there. also some other gardens in there which are all
lavender which neither of us can really touch without
issues (reactions similar to poison ivy).

for making some extra $ when we walk we pick up cans
along the road as Michigan has a $0.10 deposit. it may
not be much but over the course of a year it adds up.
doing odd-jobs and lawn work for others is also a way
to make some extra $.

if i were living in the city, this time of the year i'd
be shoveling snow for a few extra as i could use more
exercise and it would be a good reason to get outside
more.

snowing out nicely now, big fluffy flakes drifting down,
more often it is blowing sideways...


songbird
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Old 09-02-2018, 06:11 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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On 2/9/2018 11:37 AM, songbird wrote:
Nyssa wrote:
...
The rash reminds me of a problem I had when I was very
young...kindergarten age...when I developed a rash on
my elbows. It was thought that I was allergic to tomatoes
or strawberries and the doctor just prescribed some
cream to put on the rash.

I liked both tomatoes and strawberries, so I wasn't too
pleased with either not eating them or the smelly cream.

By the next year, I was happily eating both strawberries
and tomatoes and no rash returned...ever.

Odd that I seemed to have out-grown the problem and that
you have grown *into* the problem.

Maybe if you're lucky you will *out* grow the problem
you grew into. lol


i surely do wish it to be so. after eating tons of
tomatoes over my lifetime to have that come along... Mom
sometimes doesn't remember when she cooks she's so used
to making things her way.

i used to go out and pick them and eat quite a
few and also while processing to put them up, i'd
nibble bits and pieces here and there. the toughest
thing to remember is to not drink the extra juice
at the end of a canning run.

and one of our favorite easy meals is macaroni
and tomatoes or tomato juice.

well, pretty much any italian dish we made had
plenty of tomatoes in there and that was the basic
cuisine of ours (me being half italian). when i
was off living on my own a small can of tomato paste
could be a snack at times.

i really miss the umami flavor that comes from
them in so many ways.

we don't grow as many tomatoes now that i can't
eat them, but Mom will still use them for her cooking
she does for other people. today she'll be making
goulash.


As for the deer and critter problem, I'm now thinking
about planting an herb garden in one bed close to the
deer pathway to discourage them from approaching the
real food in the other beds plus planting some marigolds
around the edges of other beds.


we've found out that it may help, but don't count on
it. when we have years with really deep snow the deer
will come along and eat the cedar trees and the rabbits
will too along with chewing off some of the bark on
other plants (including poison sumac, but i think we
finally got rid of that invasion).

even plants that are touted as "deer proof" may get
sampled by young deer before they learn and given enough
young deer samples it can still do in some plants. so
we've learned that anything we want protected must be
fenced.


Plus I have a short length of chicken wire I may try
around a vegetable bed when it's getting started to
discourage the deer from nibbling down to nubs.

More ideas are welcome. Anything that's free or
inexpensive, that is.

Nyssa, who figures spending hundreds on fencing to
protect a few vegetables isn't very frugal


exactly my thinking for fencing the rest of the yard
i don't want to spend a lot of money for what is pretty
much extra and non-essential gardens, but when the deer
and rabbits eat a lot of the strawberries out there i
do grumble a bit. i'm expanding my strawberry patches
outside the fences because i also like them as a ground-
cover plant beside the berries. some years i've gotten
plenty of extra berries and then there are years like
last season where i barely had any (between the late
frost and deer/rabbits grazing).

the good news is that it is a one-time expense and
if the fence is strong (chicken wire is too thin to last
very long IMO) it should last long enough to pay for
itself.

we've already invested in fencing the main veggie gardens
and that was only a few hundred $ at the time, but the
mistake there was the wrong kind of fence along the bottom
which does not really exclude rabbits or groundhogs.
and i was surprised to see the groundhogs climbing to get
through.

for discouraging chipmunks you need even finer mesh
(1/2 inch or less). nothing plastic has ever been
worth it. it crumbles or tears too easy, rabbits will
chew right through it, etc.

anyways, there is still quite a bit of room inside the
main fenced gardens that i could use. i expanded my
strawberry patch a few years ago and there is still
hundreds of square feet i can reclaim from pathways and
the carpeting/limestone mulched areas which are just
there. also some other gardens in there which are all
lavender which neither of us can really touch without
issues (reactions similar to poison ivy).

for making some extra $ when we walk we pick up cans
along the road as Michigan has a $0.10 deposit. it may
not be much but over the course of a year it adds up.
doing odd-jobs and lawn work for others is also a way
to make some extra $.

if i were living in the city, this time of the year i'd
be shoveling snow for a few extra as i could use more
exercise and it would be a good reason to get outside
more.

snowing out nicely now, big fluffy flakes drifting down,
more often it is blowing sideways...


songbird

Deer and shade pushed any gardening I do close to the house and deck.

The only sure fire way to keep deer away, short of dogs running loose in
the yard is fencing. They can leap an 6 foot fence but one that high is
not needed. Simple netting stretched between posts deters them. Deer
are browsers and the world is their salad bowl. They will eat your
garden plants before there is any fruiting. Only thing they did not eat
in my garden was onions. I have mature chestnut trees now and nuts
really attract them as do apples and acorns. I've had to throw stuff at
them to chase them, even might take more than a firecracker.
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Old 09-02-2018, 08:21 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Posts: 669
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On 2/9/2018 11:11 AM, Frank wrote:
On 2/9/2018 11:37 AM, songbird wrote:
Nyssa wrote:
...
The rash reminds me of a problem I had when I was very
young...kindergarten age...when I developed a rash on
my elbows. It was thought that I was allergic to tomatoes
or strawberries and the doctor just prescribed some
cream to put on the rash.

I liked both tomatoes and strawberries, so I wasn't too
pleased with either not eating them or the smelly cream.

By the next year, I was happily eating both strawberries
and tomatoes and no rash returned...ever.

Odd that I seemed to have out-grown the problem and that
you have grown *into* the problem.

Maybe if you're lucky you will *out* grow the problem
you grew into. lol


¬*¬* i surely do wish it to be so.¬* after eating tons of
tomatoes over my lifetime to have that come along...¬* Mom
sometimes doesn't remember when she cooks she's so used
to making things her way.

¬*¬* i used to go out and pick them and eat quite a
few and also while processing to put them up, i'd
nibble bits and pieces here and there.¬* the toughest
thing to remember is to not drink the extra juice
at the end of a canning run.

¬*¬* and one of our favorite easy meals is macaroni
and tomatoes or tomato juice.

¬*¬* well, pretty much any italian dish we made had
plenty of tomatoes in there and that was the basic
cuisine of ours (me being half italian).¬* when i
was off living on my own a small can of tomato paste
could be a snack at times.

¬*¬* i really miss the umami flavor that comes from
them in so many ways.

¬*¬* we don't grow as many tomatoes now that i can't
eat them, but Mom will still use them for her cooking
she does for other people.¬* today she'll be making
goulash.


As for the deer and critter problem, I'm now thinking
about planting an herb garden in one bed close to the
deer pathway to discourage them from approaching the
real food in the other beds plus planting some marigolds
around the edges of other beds.


¬*¬* we've found out that it may help, but don't count on
it.¬* when we have years with really deep snow the deer
will come along and eat the cedar trees and the rabbits
will too along with chewing off some of the bark on
other plants (including poison sumac, but i think we
finally got rid of that invasion).

¬*¬* even plants that are touted as "deer proof" may get
sampled by young deer before they learn and given enough
young deer samples it can still do in some plants.¬* so
we've learned that anything we want protected must be
fenced.


Plus I have a short length of chicken wire I may try
around a vegetable bed when it's getting started to
discourage the deer from nibbling down to nubs.

More ideas are welcome. Anything that's free or
inexpensive, that is.

Nyssa, who figures spending hundreds on fencing to
protect a few vegetables isn't very frugal


¬*¬* exactly my thinking for fencing the rest of the yard
i don't want to spend a lot of money for what is pretty
much extra and non-essential gardens, but when the deer
and rabbits eat a lot of the strawberries out there i
do grumble a bit.¬* i'm expanding my strawberry patches
outside the fences because i also like them as a ground-
cover plant beside the berries.¬* some years i've gotten
plenty of extra berries and then there are years like
last season where i barely had any (between the late
frost and deer/rabbits grazing).

¬*¬* the good news is that it is a one-time expense and
if the fence is strong (chicken wire is too thin to last
very long IMO) it should last long enough to pay for
itself.

we've already invested in fencing the main veggie gardens
and that was only a few hundred $ at the time, but the
mistake there was the wrong kind of fence along the bottom
which does not really exclude rabbits or groundhogs.
and i was surprised to see the groundhogs climbing to get
through.

¬*¬* for discouraging chipmunks you need even finer mesh
(1/2 inch or less).¬* nothing plastic has ever been
worth it.¬* it crumbles or tears too easy, rabbits will
chew right through it, etc.

¬*¬* anyways, there is still quite a bit of room inside the
main fenced gardens that i could use.¬* i expanded my
strawberry patch a few years ago and there is still
hundreds of square feet i can reclaim from pathways and
the carpeting/limestone mulched areas which are just
there.¬* also some other gardens in there which are all
lavender which neither of us can really touch without
issues (reactions similar to poison ivy).

¬*¬* for making some extra $ when we walk we pick up cans
along the road as Michigan has a $0.10 deposit.¬* it may
not be much but over the course of a year it adds up.
doing odd-jobs and lawn work for others is also a way
to make some extra $.

¬*¬* if i were living in the city, this time of the year i'd
be shoveling snow for a few extra as i could use more
exercise and it would be a good reason to get outside
more.

¬*¬* snowing out nicely now, big fluffy flakes drifting down,
more often it is blowing sideways...¬*


¬*¬* songbird

Deer and shade pushed any gardening I do close to the house and deck.

The only sure fire way to keep deer away, short of dogs running loose
in the yard is fencing.¬* They can leap an 6 foot fence but one that
high is not needed.¬* Simple netting stretched between posts deters
them.¬* Deer are browsers and the world is their salad bowl.¬* They will
eat your garden plants before there is any fruiting.¬* Only thing they
did not eat in my garden was onions.¬* I have mature chestnut trees now
and nuts really attract them as do apples and acorns.¬* I've had to
throw stuff at them to chase them, even might take more than a
firecracker.


¬* A .490" round ball at about 1800 FPS should take care of that problem
nicely ... I'm moving my apiary over by the garden , Mama thinks the
hives were too close to the new deck - and she's right . The current
plan is to reconfigure the electric fence I have around the garden and
swap fence chargers and add some chicken wire along to bottom to keep
the rabbits and 'dillos out . The 'lectric fence has worked OK to keep
the deer out of the garden¬* and the bear that tore up a beehive last
spring out of the bee yard .

--
Snag
Ain't no dollar sign on
peace of mind - Zac Brown



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Old 09-02-2018, 08:37 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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On 2/9/2018 2:21 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
On 2/9/2018 11:11 AM, Frank wrote:
On 2/9/2018 11:37 AM, songbird wrote:
Nyssa wrote:
...
The rash reminds me of a problem I had when I was very
young...kindergarten age...when I developed a rash on
my elbows. It was thought that I was allergic to tomatoes
or strawberries and the doctor just prescribed some
cream to put on the rash.

I liked both tomatoes and strawberries, so I wasn't too
pleased with either not eating them or the smelly cream.

By the next year, I was happily eating both strawberries
and tomatoes and no rash returned...ever.

Odd that I seemed to have out-grown the problem and that
you have grown *into* the problem.

Maybe if you're lucky you will *out* grow the problem
you grew into. lol

¬*¬* i surely do wish it to be so.¬* after eating tons of
tomatoes over my lifetime to have that come along...¬* Mom
sometimes doesn't remember when she cooks she's so used
to making things her way.

¬*¬* i used to go out and pick them and eat quite a
few and also while processing to put them up, i'd
nibble bits and pieces here and there.¬* the toughest
thing to remember is to not drink the extra juice
at the end of a canning run.

¬*¬* and one of our favorite easy meals is macaroni
and tomatoes or tomato juice.

¬*¬* well, pretty much any italian dish we made had
plenty of tomatoes in there and that was the basic
cuisine of ours (me being half italian).¬* when i
was off living on my own a small can of tomato paste
could be a snack at times.

¬*¬* i really miss the umami flavor that comes from
them in so many ways.

¬*¬* we don't grow as many tomatoes now that i can't
eat them, but Mom will still use them for her cooking
she does for other people.¬* today she'll be making
goulash.


As for the deer and critter problem, I'm now thinking
about planting an herb garden in one bed close to the
deer pathway to discourage them from approaching the
real food in the other beds plus planting some marigolds
around the edges of other beds.

¬*¬* we've found out that it may help, but don't count on
it.¬* when we have years with really deep snow the deer
will come along and eat the cedar trees and the rabbits
will too along with chewing off some of the bark on
other plants (including poison sumac, but i think we
finally got rid of that invasion).

¬*¬* even plants that are touted as "deer proof" may get
sampled by young deer before they learn and given enough
young deer samples it can still do in some plants.¬* so
we've learned that anything we want protected must be
fenced.


Plus I have a short length of chicken wire I may try
around a vegetable bed when it's getting started to
discourage the deer from nibbling down to nubs.

More ideas are welcome. Anything that's free or
inexpensive, that is.

Nyssa, who figures spending hundreds on fencing to
protect a few vegetables isn't very frugal

¬*¬* exactly my thinking for fencing the rest of the yard
i don't want to spend a lot of money for what is pretty
much extra and non-essential gardens, but when the deer
and rabbits eat a lot of the strawberries out there i
do grumble a bit.¬* i'm expanding my strawberry patches
outside the fences because i also like them as a ground-
cover plant beside the berries.¬* some years i've gotten
plenty of extra berries and then there are years like
last season where i barely had any (between the late
frost and deer/rabbits grazing).

¬*¬* the good news is that it is a one-time expense and
if the fence is strong (chicken wire is too thin to last
very long IMO) it should last long enough to pay for
itself.

we've already invested in fencing the main veggie gardens
and that was only a few hundred $ at the time, but the
mistake there was the wrong kind of fence along the bottom
which does not really exclude rabbits or groundhogs.
and i was surprised to see the groundhogs climbing to get
through.

¬*¬* for discouraging chipmunks you need even finer mesh
(1/2 inch or less).¬* nothing plastic has ever been
worth it.¬* it crumbles or tears too easy, rabbits will
chew right through it, etc.

¬*¬* anyways, there is still quite a bit of room inside the
main fenced gardens that i could use.¬* i expanded my
strawberry patch a few years ago and there is still
hundreds of square feet i can reclaim from pathways and
the carpeting/limestone mulched areas which are just
there.¬* also some other gardens in there which are all
lavender which neither of us can really touch without
issues (reactions similar to poison ivy).

¬*¬* for making some extra $ when we walk we pick up cans
along the road as Michigan has a $0.10 deposit.¬* it may
not be much but over the course of a year it adds up.
doing odd-jobs and lawn work for others is also a way
to make some extra $.

¬*¬* if i were living in the city, this time of the year i'd
be shoveling snow for a few extra as i could use more
exercise and it would be a good reason to get outside
more.

¬*¬* snowing out nicely now, big fluffy flakes drifting down,
more often it is blowing sideways...¬*


¬*¬* songbird

Deer and shade pushed any gardening I do close to the house and deck.

The only sure fire way to keep deer away, short of dogs running loose
in the yard is fencing.¬* They can leap an 6 foot fence but one that
high is not needed.¬* Simple netting stretched between posts deters
them.¬* Deer are browsers and the world is their salad bowl.¬* They will
eat your garden plants before there is any fruiting.¬* Only thing they
did not eat in my garden was onions.¬* I have mature chestnut trees now
and nuts really attract them as do apples and acorns.¬* I've had to
throw stuff at them to chase them, even might take more than a
firecracker.


¬* A .490" round ball at about 1800 FPS should take care of that problem
nicely ... I'm moving my apiary over by the garden , Mama thinks the
hives were too close to the new deck - and she's right . The current
plan is to reconfigure the electric fence I have around the garden and
swap fence chargers and add some chicken wire along to bottom to keep
the rabbits and 'dillos out . The 'lectric fence has worked OK to keep
the deer out of the garden¬* and the bear that tore up a beehive last
spring out of the bee yard .

I wish. I loved deer hunting but gave it up as I only had public land
access. It would be illegal to shoot these so close to houses. My
crossbow could easily do the job. Two years ago, during chestnut
season, I popped 6 in the butt with my pellet gun. They have been
scarcer since. County rule is no discharge of a deadly weapon within
200 yards of an occupied residence. I know a guy arrested for target
practice in his yard with a compound bow.
  #12   Report Post  
Old 09-02-2018, 09:26 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Sep 2012
Posts: 669
Default FODMAP

On 2/9/2018 1:37 PM, Frank wrote:
On 2/9/2018 2:21 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
On 2/9/2018 11:11 AM, Frank wrote:
On 2/9/2018 11:37 AM, songbird wrote:
Nyssa wrote:
...
The rash reminds me of a problem I had when I was very
young...kindergarten age...when I developed a rash on
my elbows. It was thought that I was allergic to tomatoes
or strawberries and the doctor just prescribed some
cream to put on the rash.

I liked both tomatoes and strawberries, so I wasn't too
pleased with either not eating them or the smelly cream.

By the next year, I was happily eating both strawberries
and tomatoes and no rash returned...ever.

Odd that I seemed to have out-grown the problem and that
you have grown *into* the problem.

Maybe if you're lucky you will *out* grow the problem
you grew into. lol

¬*¬* i surely do wish it to be so.¬* after eating tons of
tomatoes over my lifetime to have that come along...¬* Mom
sometimes doesn't remember when she cooks she's so used
to making things her way.

¬*¬* i used to go out and pick them and eat quite a
few and also while processing to put them up, i'd
nibble bits and pieces here and there.¬* the toughest
thing to remember is to not drink the extra juice
at the end of a canning run.

¬*¬* and one of our favorite easy meals is macaroni
and tomatoes or tomato juice.

¬*¬* well, pretty much any italian dish we made had
plenty of tomatoes in there and that was the basic
cuisine of ours (me being half italian).¬* when i
was off living on my own a small can of tomato paste
could be a snack at times.

¬*¬* i really miss the umami flavor that comes from
them in so many ways.

¬*¬* we don't grow as many tomatoes now that i can't
eat them, but Mom will still use them for her cooking
she does for other people.¬* today she'll be making
goulash.


As for the deer and critter problem, I'm now thinking
about planting an herb garden in one bed close to the
deer pathway to discourage them from approaching the
real food in the other beds plus planting some marigolds
around the edges of other beds.

¬*¬* we've found out that it may help, but don't count on
it.¬* when we have years with really deep snow the deer
will come along and eat the cedar trees and the rabbits
will too along with chewing off some of the bark on
other plants (including poison sumac, but i think we
finally got rid of that invasion).

¬*¬* even plants that are touted as "deer proof" may get
sampled by young deer before they learn and given enough
young deer samples it can still do in some plants.¬* so
we've learned that anything we want protected must be
fenced.


Plus I have a short length of chicken wire I may try
around a vegetable bed when it's getting started to
discourage the deer from nibbling down to nubs.

More ideas are welcome. Anything that's free or
inexpensive, that is.

Nyssa, who figures spending hundreds on fencing to
protect a few vegetables isn't very frugal

¬*¬* exactly my thinking for fencing the rest of the yard
i don't want to spend a lot of money for what is pretty
much extra and non-essential gardens, but when the deer
and rabbits eat a lot of the strawberries out there i
do grumble a bit.¬* i'm expanding my strawberry patches
outside the fences because i also like them as a ground-
cover plant beside the berries.¬* some years i've gotten
plenty of extra berries and then there are years like
last season where i barely had any (between the late
frost and deer/rabbits grazing).

¬*¬* the good news is that it is a one-time expense and
if the fence is strong (chicken wire is too thin to last
very long IMO) it should last long enough to pay for
itself.

we've already invested in fencing the main veggie gardens
and that was only a few hundred $ at the time, but the
mistake there was the wrong kind of fence along the bottom
which does not really exclude rabbits or groundhogs.
and i was surprised to see the groundhogs climbing to get
through.

¬*¬* for discouraging chipmunks you need even finer mesh
(1/2 inch or less).¬* nothing plastic has ever been
worth it.¬* it crumbles or tears too easy, rabbits will
chew right through it, etc.

¬*¬* anyways, there is still quite a bit of room inside the
main fenced gardens that i could use.¬* i expanded my
strawberry patch a few years ago and there is still
hundreds of square feet i can reclaim from pathways and
the carpeting/limestone mulched areas which are just
there.¬* also some other gardens in there which are all
lavender which neither of us can really touch without
issues (reactions similar to poison ivy).

¬*¬* for making some extra $ when we walk we pick up cans
along the road as Michigan has a $0.10 deposit.¬* it may
not be much but over the course of a year it adds up.
doing odd-jobs and lawn work for others is also a way
to make some extra $.

¬*¬* if i were living in the city, this time of the year i'd
be shoveling snow for a few extra as i could use more
exercise and it would be a good reason to get outside
more.

¬*¬* snowing out nicely now, big fluffy flakes drifting down,
more often it is blowing sideways...¬*


¬*¬* songbird

Deer and shade pushed any gardening I do close to the house and deck.

The only sure fire way to keep deer away, short of dogs running
loose in the yard is fencing.¬* They can leap an 6 foot fence but one
that high is not needed.¬* Simple netting stretched between posts
deters them.¬* Deer are browsers and the world is their salad bowl.¬*
They will eat your garden plants before there is any fruiting.¬* Only
thing they did not eat in my garden was onions.¬* I have mature
chestnut trees now and nuts really attract them as do apples and
acorns.¬* I've had to throw stuff at them to chase them, even might
take more than a firecracker.


¬*¬* A .490" round ball at about 1800 FPS should take care of that
problem nicely ... I'm moving my apiary over by the garden , Mama
thinks the hives were too close to the new deck - and she's right .
The current plan is to reconfigure the electric fence I have around
the garden and swap fence chargers and add some chicken wire along to
bottom to keep the rabbits and 'dillos out . The 'lectric fence has
worked OK to keep the deer out of the garden¬* and the bear that tore
up a beehive last spring out of the bee yard .

I wish.¬* I loved deer hunting but gave it up as I only had public land
access.¬* It would be illegal to shoot these so close to houses. My
crossbow could easily do the job.¬* Two years ago, during chestnut
season, I popped 6 in the butt with my pellet gun.¬* They have been
scarcer since.¬* County rule is no discharge of a deadly weapon within
200 yards of an occupied residence.¬* I know a guy arrested for target
practice in his yard with a compound bow.


¬* That sucks - out here where I live it's not uncommon to hunt deer
from the dining room window - but then we're 12 miles from the nearest
town , living in a clearing out in the woods . Game regs are a bit vague
on that , but it is legal to shoot from your porch if you own/lease/rent
the land . Once I get things a bit more organized here I plan on
building a 100 yard rifle range ...

--
Snag
Ain't no dollar sign on
peace of mind - Zac Brown

  #13   Report Post  
Old 10-02-2018, 12:55 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Sep 2015
Posts: 235
Default FODMAP

On 2/9/2018 3:26 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
On 2/9/2018 1:37 PM, Frank wrote:
On 2/9/2018 2:21 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
On 2/9/2018 11:11 AM, Frank wrote:
On 2/9/2018 11:37 AM, songbird wrote:
Nyssa wrote:
...
The rash reminds me of a problem I had when I was very
young...kindergarten age...when I developed a rash on
my elbows. It was thought that I was allergic to tomatoes
or strawberries and the doctor just prescribed some
cream to put on the rash.

I liked both tomatoes and strawberries, so I wasn't too
pleased with either not eating them or the smelly cream.

By the next year, I was happily eating both strawberries
and tomatoes and no rash returned...ever.

Odd that I seemed to have out-grown the problem and that
you have grown *into* the problem.

Maybe if you're lucky you will *out* grow the problem
you grew into. lol

¬*¬* i surely do wish it to be so.¬* after eating tons of
tomatoes over my lifetime to have that come along...¬* Mom
sometimes doesn't remember when she cooks she's so used
to making things her way.

¬*¬* i used to go out and pick them and eat quite a
few and also while processing to put them up, i'd
nibble bits and pieces here and there.¬* the toughest
thing to remember is to not drink the extra juice
at the end of a canning run.

¬*¬* and one of our favorite easy meals is macaroni
and tomatoes or tomato juice.

¬*¬* well, pretty much any italian dish we made had
plenty of tomatoes in there and that was the basic
cuisine of ours (me being half italian).¬* when i
was off living on my own a small can of tomato paste
could be a snack at times.

¬*¬* i really miss the umami flavor that comes from
them in so many ways.

¬*¬* we don't grow as many tomatoes now that i can't
eat them, but Mom will still use them for her cooking
she does for other people.¬* today she'll be making
goulash.


As for the deer and critter problem, I'm now thinking
about planting an herb garden in one bed close to the
deer pathway to discourage them from approaching the
real food in the other beds plus planting some marigolds
around the edges of other beds.

¬*¬* we've found out that it may help, but don't count on
it.¬* when we have years with really deep snow the deer
will come along and eat the cedar trees and the rabbits
will too along with chewing off some of the bark on
other plants (including poison sumac, but i think we
finally got rid of that invasion).

¬*¬* even plants that are touted as "deer proof" may get
sampled by young deer before they learn and given enough
young deer samples it can still do in some plants.¬* so
we've learned that anything we want protected must be
fenced.


Plus I have a short length of chicken wire I may try
around a vegetable bed when it's getting started to
discourage the deer from nibbling down to nubs.

More ideas are welcome. Anything that's free or
inexpensive, that is.

Nyssa, who figures spending hundreds on fencing to
protect a few vegetables isn't very frugal

¬*¬* exactly my thinking for fencing the rest of the yard
i don't want to spend a lot of money for what is pretty
much extra and non-essential gardens, but when the deer
and rabbits eat a lot of the strawberries out there i
do grumble a bit.¬* i'm expanding my strawberry patches
outside the fences because i also like them as a ground-
cover plant beside the berries.¬* some years i've gotten
plenty of extra berries and then there are years like
last season where i barely had any (between the late
frost and deer/rabbits grazing).

¬*¬* the good news is that it is a one-time expense and
if the fence is strong (chicken wire is too thin to last
very long IMO) it should last long enough to pay for
itself.

we've already invested in fencing the main veggie gardens
and that was only a few hundred $ at the time, but the
mistake there was the wrong kind of fence along the bottom
which does not really exclude rabbits or groundhogs.
and i was surprised to see the groundhogs climbing to get
through.

¬*¬* for discouraging chipmunks you need even finer mesh
(1/2 inch or less).¬* nothing plastic has ever been
worth it.¬* it crumbles or tears too easy, rabbits will
chew right through it, etc.

¬*¬* anyways, there is still quite a bit of room inside the
main fenced gardens that i could use.¬* i expanded my
strawberry patch a few years ago and there is still
hundreds of square feet i can reclaim from pathways and
the carpeting/limestone mulched areas which are just
there.¬* also some other gardens in there which are all
lavender which neither of us can really touch without
issues (reactions similar to poison ivy).

¬*¬* for making some extra $ when we walk we pick up cans
along the road as Michigan has a $0.10 deposit.¬* it may
not be much but over the course of a year it adds up.
doing odd-jobs and lawn work for others is also a way
to make some extra $.

¬*¬* if i were living in the city, this time of the year i'd
be shoveling snow for a few extra as i could use more
exercise and it would be a good reason to get outside
more.

¬*¬* snowing out nicely now, big fluffy flakes drifting down,
more often it is blowing sideways...¬*


¬*¬* songbird

Deer and shade pushed any gardening I do close to the house and deck.

The only sure fire way to keep deer away, short of dogs running
loose in the yard is fencing.¬* They can leap an 6 foot fence but one
that high is not needed.¬* Simple netting stretched between posts
deters them.¬* Deer are browsers and the world is their salad bowl.
They will eat your garden plants before there is any fruiting.¬* Only
thing they did not eat in my garden was onions.¬* I have mature
chestnut trees now and nuts really attract them as do apples and
acorns.¬* I've had to throw stuff at them to chase them, even might
take more than a firecracker.

¬*¬* A .490" round ball at about 1800 FPS should take care of that
problem nicely ... I'm moving my apiary over by the garden , Mama
thinks the hives were too close to the new deck - and she's right .
The current plan is to reconfigure the electric fence I have around
the garden and swap fence chargers and add some chicken wire along to
bottom to keep the rabbits and 'dillos out . The 'lectric fence has
worked OK to keep the deer out of the garden¬* and the bear that tore
up a beehive last spring out of the bee yard .

I wish.¬* I loved deer hunting but gave it up as I only had public land
access.¬* It would be illegal to shoot these so close to houses. My
crossbow could easily do the job.¬* Two years ago, during chestnut
season, I popped 6 in the butt with my pellet gun.¬* They have been
scarcer since.¬* County rule is no discharge of a deadly weapon within
200 yards of an occupied residence.¬* I know a guy arrested for target
practice in his yard with a compound bow.


¬* That sucks - out here where I live it's not uncommon to hunt deer
from the dining room window - but then we're 12 miles from the nearest
town , living in a clearing out in the woods . Game regs are a bit vague
on that , but it is legal to shoot from your porch if you own/lease/rent
the land . Once I get things a bit more organized here I plan on
building a 100 yard rifle range ...

I'm in an unincorporated area but it is a crowded county. There are
people close to me that have the land and could do it. The county law
is 200 yards but the rest of the state is 50. I could hunt a state park
less than 10 mi away either in DE where I live or PA side. Rules varied
considerably but they were heavily hunted and deer were sparse.


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