B.Server wrote in message
...
On 18 May 2003 11:41:24 -0700, (Ken
Saunders) wrote:

"Gyve Turquoise" wrote in message
...
The OPs problem can either be a lack of iron in the soil or a soil pH
that renders the iron unavailable. (and they are not mutually
exclusive)

I've heard that too. I'll test my pH!

If you have the first instance, iron can be added in pretty much any
form.

So I can just bury some rusty nails in the soil? A web search I did
suggested that the iron needs to be in a form which is digestible by the
plant.

If the second, either the pH needs to be lowered to the point
that the existing iron becomes available or you can use chelated iron.

Thanks for the advice.

You have not said where in Japan you are. If you are in or around a
large city, you might try one of the outlets of Tokyu Hands. I have
found them to have a number of English or other European language
speaking staff and a fairly large number of products that are "dual"
packaged, for export so that there is at least some Romanji that would
help you find an iron-containing product, (iron sulfate, for example)

Thanks for your ideas. To be honest with you I can probably manage without
"romanji" or English speaking assistants. I've been searching high and low
for any kind of garden product with any form of iron in it in places
including "Joyful Honda", D2 and Homac, but not in Tokyu Hands.

"Repeating Decimal" wrote in message
...

I normally try to be nice to posters even if they ask inane questions.

That is very considerate of you.

On
the other hand, when it seems that someone asks for help without making
the
slightest effort to learn but expect others to do their leg work for them,
I
do tend not to suffer them gladly.

I quite understand.

I do realize, however, that sometimes
their effort is not well expressed by their words. I apologize for those
lapses in my decorum.

That's very magnanimous of you.

Problems like that tend to show up in scientific newsgroups. Students
sometimes ask for solutions to their homework without any effort on their
own behalf.

I must confess this was my homework actually. My teacher gave me assignments
like "What's hydroponic supply store in Japanese?" "How can I get or make
chelated iron for a lemon tree when the shops don't seem to sell it?" etc.
etc. and without making any effort to answer these questions myself I just
posted here. I'm so lazy!

Such posts greatly irritate me, and my replies cannot hid my
frustration with them.

Yes, it must be very frustrating for you. It's not surprising you don't want
to waste time actually reading the posts you're responding to before
expressing your frustration.

I also get irritated when someone expects specific
answer they can look up as well as the people they are asking.

Yes, life is very irritating, isn't it?

You make some good points. My point is when a person asks even a simple
question and somebody answers it, everybody learns from it. The thought
of making square watermelon or veggies with faces on never crossed my
mind, but having somebody ask about them and the sharing of knowledge I
learned about it even though the info is on the net.
I have been reading this group for over 3 years, I hardly ever post, but
I learned a lot from just reading it. I never would have known about
different kinds of tomatoes, peppers, ect.. without somebody asking
about them. Yes if I wanted to know what kind of tomato tasted the best
I could do a google search...but it never crossed my mind, nor did I
think I needed to know this. But reading the group when somebody would
ask a question like this I learned what people think is the best.
Another note when people ask "dumb" or "lazy" questions it usually
starts a nice thread when the subject actually changes into something
different, thus more to learn.

If your neighbor stops by and says he wants to know what the best
tasting tomato is and you know he has a T1 line and is on the net 20 hrs
out of the day, would you flame him or would you have an intelligent
conversation with him and brag about the luck you had with a certain
kind ? Just treat people like you would in real life.

Another note say maybe only a few people responded to a question a few
years ago and their information is outdated or even wrong, should they
go by that and maybe harm themselves just because they aren't allowed to
ask a question that was answered before.

Repeating Decimal wrote:

in article , Gyve Turquoise at
wrote on 5/22/03 11:57 PM:



I'm not sure Bill was flaming, I think he was making a joke! I said I didn't
know what "hydroponic supply store" was in Japanese, and he said not to ask
about elementary stuff. Obviously this question is very difficult for
everyone to answer, so I think Bill was being ironic. I think he really
meant "don't ask this kind of difficult question to me".



I normally try to be nice to posters even if they ask inane questions. On
the other hand, when it seems that someone asks for help without making the
slightest effort to learn but expect others to do their leg work for them, I
do tend not to suffer them gladly. I do realize, however, that sometimes
their effort is not well expressed by their words. I apologize for those
lapses in my decorum.

Problems like that tend to show up in scientific newsgroups. Students
sometimes ask for solutions to their homework without any effort on their
own behalf. Such posts greatly irritate me, and my replies cannot hid my
frustration with them. I also get irritated when someone expects specific
answer they can look up as well as the people they are asking. For this
group such a question may be: how much nitrogen is there in ammonium
sulfate? Even if you do not have enough chemical knowledge to do that for
yourself, it is something easily looked up in a gardening book that covers
fertilizers.

Bill

On Fri, 23 May 2003 22:38:44 GMT, Repeating Decimal
wrote:

in article , Gyve Turquoise at
wrote on 5/22/03 11:57 PM:

I'm not sure Bill was flaming, I think he was making a joke! I said I didn't
know what "hydroponic supply store" was in Japanese, and he said not to ask
about elementary stuff. Obviously this question is very difficult for
everyone to answer, so I think Bill was being ironic. I think he really
meant "don't ask this kind of difficult question to me".

I normally try to be nice to posters even if they ask inane questions. On
the other hand, when it seems that someone asks for help without making the
slightest effort to learn but expect others to do their leg work for them, I
do tend not to suffer them gladly. I do realize, however, that sometimes
their effort is not well expressed by their words. I apologize for those
lapses in my decorum.

I tend just not to answer questions that will require a
basic book on the subject.

If it's apparent from the question that the questioner
hasn't read even one book on gardening, for instance, I'm
not going to endeavor to write a book for him on the
newsgroup.

It's just beyond the scope of Usenet to do this, plus I
haven't the time, PLUS if I did have the time and ability,
I'd write a book for publication and expect to be paid for
it.

Problems like that tend to show up in scientific newsgroups. Students
sometimes ask for solutions to their homework without any effort on their
own behalf. Such posts greatly irritate me, and my replies cannot hid my
frustration with them. I also get irritated when someone expects specific
answer they can look up as well as the people they are asking. For this
group such a question may be: how much nitrogen is there in ammonium
sulfate? Even if you do not have enough chemical knowledge to do that for
yourself, it is something easily looked up in a gardening book that covers
fertilizers.


I'll sometimes (if feeling charitable) instruct someone how
to search for an answer on the Web. I think a lot of folks
STILL don't know how to do this.

Pat

On Sat, 24 May 2003 09:19:34 +0900, "Gyve Turquoise"
wrote:


B.Server wrote in message
.. .
On 18 May 2003 11:41:24 -0700, (Ken
Saunders) wrote:

"Gyve Turquoise" wrote in message
...
The OPs problem can either be a lack of iron in the soil or a soil pH
that renders the iron unavailable. (and they are not mutually
exclusive)

I've heard that too. I'll test my pH!

If you have the first instance, iron can be added in pretty much any
form.

So I can just bury some rusty nails in the soil? A web search I did
suggested that the iron needs to be in a form which is digestible by the
plant.


I would use a sulfate, particularly if the soil tends toward the high
end of the pH scale. Nails would only provide a biologically
available form if the pH is neutral to acid.

If you are going organic, manures, rice hulls, and most compost tend
to be acidic. Blood meal would then provide a useful souce of iron.


[...]
Thanks for your ideas. To be honest with you I can probably manage without
"romanji" or English speaking assistants. I've been searching high and low
for any kind of garden product with any form of iron in it in places
including "Joyful Honda", D2 and Homac, but not in Tokyu Hands.


I was not intending to impune your Japanese fluency. A lot of
relatively compentent non-native speakers have little or no reading
skills in my experience. I have not looked at Japanese packaging for
gardening supplies, so I have no idea whether there are adopted kanji
for specific chemicals and compounds or whether they are rendered in
kana. My guess would be that "organic gardening" products, being
native materials, would have kanji names, but chemical compounds would
be rendered in a combination of kana and IEC symbols.

B.Server wrote in message
...
On Sat, 24 May 2003 09:19:34 +0900, "Gyve Turquoise"
wrote:
I would use a sulfate, particularly if the soil tends toward the high
end of the pH scale. Nails would only provide a biologically
available form if the pH is neutral to acid.

The pH of the soil I scraped from the top of the pot is 5.5 according to my
testing kit. It should be about the same lower down I suppose. The potting
mixture I used was one part of sand to three parts of leaf mould to six
parts of something called "aka dama" earth ("aka dama" means "red ball" in
English, and it is literally little red clay balls, but I don't know what it
should be called correctly in English). This year I've been feeding the tree
with something called "Hyponex".

If you are going organic, manures, rice hulls, and most compost tend
to be acidic. Blood meal would then provide a useful souce of iron.

Blood meal is another thing I've never seen on sale here. I'm going to try
to find the tablet iron for humans mentioned by another poster first, and
failing that I'll stick some rusty nails in the soil.

writes:

I'll sometimes (if feeling charitable) instruct someone how
to search for an answer on the Web. I think a lot of folks
STILL don't know how to do this.

Perhaps a simple fact has been overlooked for this response.

That is: Not everyone who has newsgroup access has web access.

Another bit of information that gets overlooked quite commonly by people
in the United States is that there are many parts of the world that pay by
the minute for their connect time which makes doing web searches very
expensive.

Newsgroup postings can be downloaded and read off line by many readers.
Web searches cannot be downloaded to read off line; they (web pages) must
be accessed individually.

It is unfortunate that someone is scolded for asking a basic question.
After all, any question asked here, regardless of how involved it might
be, is basic to someone. I know I've asked what might be considered basic
questions by "knowledgeable" gardeners but have seen many asked here that
I've known the answer to since childhood.

The main reason I read here and occasionally ask a question is that I want
to know real-life (and real-time) experiences, not just the opinion of
someone who puts up a web page. Conversations here are "customized" and
answers can be clarified which is, after all, the purpose of a
newsgroup/discussion group, isn't it?

Quite frankly, I'm one of those who appreciates the kindness and
generosity of most of those who post here. Sharing knowledge is a
wonderful thing.

As for which the best tasting tomato is; that is, after all, individual.
(I vote for Sun Gold if I can vote for only one; however, again, I have
many, many tomato plants, several new ones . . . again!)

Glenna