"DigitalVinyl" wrote in message
...
Pat Meadows wrote:


In the month of May so far, we have had
six sunny days and 22 rainy, wet, overcast, or
thunderstorm-y days. Four of the six sunny days were at the
very beginning of the month. This is a bit much!

Grow water chestnuts, and more lettuce!

On Wed, 28 May 2003 16:57:15 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"DigitalVinyl" wrote in message
.. .
Pat Meadows wrote:


In the month of May so far, we have had
six sunny days and 22 rainy, wet, overcast, or
thunderstorm-y days. Four of the six sunny days were at the
very beginning of the month. This is a bit much!

Grow water chestnuts, and more lettuce!

The lettuce is doing wonderfully - no surprise there. Also
Swiss chard and various Chinese greens.

Pat

"Doug Kanter" wrote:

"DigitalVinyl" wrote in message
.. .
Pat Meadows wrote:

Well I'm a renter in this house, so I don't know if I want to start
converting their ground into raised beds. :-) I've just seen stuff
about adding compost every year and tilling under everything and now
mulching. It jus tmakes me wonder how fast decomposition can outpace
what I'm piling on. :-) But I do understand its all good for the soil


Let's put it this way: If you do nothing make sure to walk or kneel only in
BETWEEN the rows,
Not an issue. It is a corner plot with slate walkways and the base of
the house surrounding it. You would have to go out of your way to step
into it.
DiGiTAL_ViNYL (no email)

This discussion is very pertinent to me right now. I have a brand new bed
(my 80 year old neighbor didn't recognize the difference between roundup and
something specific for dandelions and killed off most of my parking
strip.....LOL). So in the dead sod I planted giant grasses last fall, and
bulbs, and early this spring planted (by seed) rows of tall and short
wildflowers (tall in the center, short at the edges) Things like nemophila,
linaria, poppies, california poppies, flax, bachelor buttons, dame's rocket,
annual phlox, lupines, larkspur, foam flower, sweet alyssum, etc.
Unfortunately, the only ones I recognize for sure, having grown them before,
are poppies, california poppies, alyssum, and linaria.For a long time, I
thought I would let everything grow and sort it all out later, but of course
there's lots of grass coming up, as well as dandelions, and some other
familar weeds of this area. (Most of the wildflower seeds also sprouted). My
worst mistake was thinking that a certain spade-shaped leaf was something
precious, but this past week, it has started to resemble something I
recognized very well - BINDWEED!. Fortunately, all in the seedling stage, so
easy to remove. I will report on it as an experiment, in the middle and at
the end of the summer. It occured to me that most of these things will be
bloomed out at the end of July, so I have planted some four-oclocks, cosmos,
and lavatera to take over at the end of the summer.
I'm sure my neighbors think I'm nuts as I stand on the street or
sidewalk looking into this bed of what looks like a derelict waste garden
intently, then reach down and pluck out a single plant here or there. I'm
hoping that in 2 or 3 weeks, they will understand better what I was up to.

DigitalVinyl said:

I will add some mulch as soon as the last seedlings show where they
want to grow from. Haven't decided if I want to do something cheap
(like newspaper, grass--i've read cautions about each) or something
more attractive like the reddish wood mulch that I could buy at home
depot.

OH NO! I wouldn't put that dyed-red mulch in a vegetable garden! (I wouldn't
even put it around my shrubs.)

I wouldn't put unrotted wood chips of *any* sort in a vegetable garden. (Well aged
or composted, is another story...)

Shredded leaves, dried grass clippings (lay them in the sun on a hard surface),
shredded straw -- maybe on top of a layer of newspaper -- stuff that will rot
by next spring -- that's veggie garden mulch.
--
Pat in Plymouth MI

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)

Doug Kanter said:

"DigitalVinyl" wrote in message
.. .
"Doug Kanter" wrote:

I reworked the top 18"
of soil...

After this season, do not rework anything but the top 3". You only need to
go deeper for new garden areas, unless someone is walking on, and
compressing your rows, in which case, they should be pantsed and staked to
the ground near an ant hill.

I make an exception:
If your garden is withing reach of tree roots, you should yank a broad fork up
through the beds each year. (The aim isn't to churn over everything, just rip
up the invading roots while they are still small.)

http://davesgarden.com/terms/go/121/

(I'm not sure where you can get a broad fork. I bought mine from Gardener's
Supply many years ago; I've seen other versions off and on in other catalogs.)

I also hold strongly that any time you disturb the soil in a big way (more than
a little raking of the surface) you MUST add some oganic material to compensate.
(Compost and alfalfa pellets are two of my favorite additives.)
--
Pat in Plymouth MI

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)

"DigitalVinyl" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote:

"DigitalVinyl" wrote in message
.. .
Pat Meadows wrote:

Well I'm a renter in this house, so I don't know if I want to start
converting their ground into raised beds. :-) I've just seen stuff
about adding compost every year and tilling under everything and now
mulching. It jus tmakes me wonder how fast decomposition can outpace
what I'm piling on. :-) But I do understand its all good for the soil


Let's put it this way: If you do nothing make sure to walk or kneel only
in
BETWEEN the rows,
Not an issue. It is a corner plot with slate walkways and the base of
the house surrounding it. You would have to go out of your way to step
into it.

Excellent! You're well on your way to garden nirvana! :-)

(Pat Kiewicz) wrote in message ...


I make an exception:
If your garden is withing reach of tree roots, you should yank a broad fork up
through the beds each year. (The aim isn't to churn over everything, just rip
up the invading roots while they are still small.)


After a post of yours a couple years ago on tree roots, I have
experimented with root removing methods because the woods are only 20
ft from my garden. Here is what I found: in my sandy soil you can push
a spade in, and if you hit a root, the soil is loose enough that you
can push a cutter or even a handsaw and cut the root (yes, you can saw
through moist sandy soil). This year I have done it around the
perimeter, not just where I would run into a root in a bed, and I have
cut several 2 inch roots and maybe two dozen one inch ones. I can
already see that the beds, this year, are not drying as fast as in the
past.

This reminds me of a neighbor just up the block: He got a notice
from the town basically stating that if he didn't keep his grass less
than 12 inches, he was going to be fined. Let me note that he has an
immacculate lawn. no weeds, mows once a week to keep it perfect,
etc... Needless to say he was abit upset. he called the town, and
asked what was the deal, and where did they see grass to be cut? they
looked up his address, and said the cops say tall grass on the north
side of his garage.

" Tell then they are F***'n Idiots!!! those are my day lillys!!!"
click



This discussion is very pertinent to me right now. I have a brand new bed
(my 80 year old neighbor didn't recognize the difference between roundup and
something specific for dandelions and killed off most of my parking
strip.....LOL). So in the dead sod I planted giant grasses last fall, and
bulbs, and early this spring planted (by seed) rows of tall and short
wildflowers (tall in the center, short at the edges) Things like nemophila,
linaria, poppies, california poppies, flax, bachelor buttons, dame's rocket,
annual phlox, lupines, larkspur, foam flower, sweet alyssum, etc.
Unfortunately, the only ones I recognize for sure, having grown them before,
are poppies, california poppies, alyssum, and linaria.For a long time, I
thought I would let everything grow and sort it all out later, but of course
there's lots of grass coming up, as well as dandelions, and some other
familar weeds of this area. (Most of the wildflower seeds also sprouted). My
worst mistake was thinking that a certain spade-shaped leaf was something
precious, but this past week, it has started to resemble something I
recognized very well - BINDWEED!. Fortunately, all in the seedling stage, so
easy to remove. I will report on it as an experiment, in the middle and at
the end of the summer. It occured to me that most of these things will be
bloomed out at the end of July, so I have planted some four-oclocks, cosmos,
and lavatera to take over at the end of the summer.
I'm sure my neighbors think I'm nuts as I stand on the street or
sidewalk looking into this bed of what looks like a derelict waste garden
intently, then reach down and pluck out a single plant here or there. I'm
hoping that in 2 or 3 weeks, they will understand better what I was up to.





email: daveallyn at bwsys dot net
please respond in this NG so others
can share your wisdom as well!

simy1 said:

(Pat Kiewicz) wrote in message

m...


I make an exception:
If your garden is withing reach of tree roots, you should yank a broad fork up
through the beds each year. (The aim isn't to churn over everything, just rip
up the invading roots while they are still small.)


After a post of yours a couple years ago on tree roots, I have
experimented with root removing methods because the woods are only 20
ft from my garden. Here is what I found: in my sandy soil you can push
a spade in, and if you hit a root, the soil is loose enough that you
can push a cutter or even a handsaw and cut the root (yes, you can saw
through moist sandy soil). This year I have done it around the
perimeter, not just where I would run into a root in a bed, and I have
cut several 2 inch roots and maybe two dozen one inch ones. I can
already see that the beds, this year, are not drying as fast as in the
past.

Sounds good -- I assume you don't have many rocks? I sometimes can't
get a spade down or a stake in where I want them. (One whole side of my
house has a strip of rocks laid in that were pulled from the vegetable garden.
When we filled it up, I threw them in the road. Now they've paved the road,
so I'll put them in the trash.)

It'll help that we cleared a lot of weed trees off an overgrown section of the
neighbor's yard last year. They were shading and stealing water and
nutrients from the garden. We've got a few more to go -- ailanthus, Siberian
elm, Norway maple -- but we will leave the wild cherry trees that are in
the back corner. (And we left a multiflora rose because it's just too thorny
and a catbird usually nests in it.)

--
Pat in Plymouth MI

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)

(Pat Kiewicz) wrote in message ...
simy1 said:


Sounds good -- I assume you don't have many rocks? I sometimes can't
get a spade down or a stake in where I want them. (One whole side of my
house has a strip of rocks laid in that were pulled from the vegetable garden.
When we filled it up, I threw them in the road. Now they've paved the road,
so I'll put them in the trash.)


Yes, I have very few rocks - none in fact, except the gravel and lava
stuff that I brought in when I first filled the beds with some dirt
from around the house. I covered the beds with manure, and I expect a
bumper crop of everything this year
(you can probably tell I am pleased with the root massacre. Fast bed
drying,
and loads of manure going nowhere, all explained. Manure should
fertilize at least
2 years, more typically 3, even including the sandy soil effect)

"Dave Allyn (Dave Allyn)" wrote in message
...
This reminds me of a neighbor just up the block: He got a notice
from the town basically stating that if he didn't keep his grass less
than 12 inches, he was going to be fined. Let me note that he has an
immacculate lawn. no weeds, mows once a week to keep it perfect,
etc... Needless to say he was abit upset. he called the town, and
asked what was the deal, and where did they see grass to be cut? they
looked up his address, and said the cops say tall grass on the north
side of his garage.

" Tell then they are F***'n Idiots!!! those are my day lillys!!!"
click


I'll bet it wasn't the cops. He was probably turned in by someone much like
my neighbors, senior citizens who spend their days peeking through their
curtains and looking for violations. Last summer, I sold my car. When the
woman came to exchange paperwork, we went to the department of motor
vehicles and found that her insurance papers were out of order. I had
already taken the license plates off my car, and it was otherwise parked
legally on the street. The next morning, I looked outside and saw a cop
writing down the VIN from the windshield. I went out and was told that
someone had reported an abandoned car. He was very apologetic, but said that
some neighbors have nothing better to do with their time than whine about
nonsense like this, and that he was required to respond.

Hi All,
reply at the end.
Pat Meadows wrote in message
...
On Tue, 27 May 2003 15:18:00 -0400, DigitalVinyl
wrote:


As a beginner I've been trying to stick to instructions for lack of
better ideas. Although I've screwed that up too..seeded viola's
outside and they never showed up. I guess as long as I know the ground
is ready I could start them inside next year. But I'd put them out
quickly when they were tiny. I mentioned in another thread that my
2week old corn seeds were 2 inches topgrowth and had 6-8" roots going
straight down. I'd be worried about hurting first growth like that
starting everything inside small cels.

Unfortunately, we haven't room for corn - I've never grown
corn, so I don't know how I would grow it.

However, I just finished reading a library book entitled
'The New Victory Garden' by Bob Thomson (one of the former
'hosts' on the PBS TV show), and he recommended starting
corn inside.

I also know some people on a mailing list who start corn
indoors - so it can certainly be done. I don't know the
details.

Pat

I start corn off in large boxes of compost, about mid april, space the seeds
about 2" apart. you can transplant the corn when the frost has gone. I
planted mine out 2 days ago. when you plant out give them plenty of water.
when you plant out leave a small hollow round each plant and fill this with
water, do not mess with a rose as you will not get enough water. hope this
helps you.

Richard M. Watkin.

Pat Meadows wrote:

This book is available online, used, for about $8.00. It's
well worth the money, IMHO, as she also gives you preferred
seed-starting methods for each of hundreds of plants - most
vegetables and many hundreds of flowers - and actual
photographs of the seed leaves of each plant.

http://www.addall.com.used/ - then you can find it by
putting in the title, and author's name.

Currently on Amazon.com for $10 & up. I just paid $23 for a new copy a few
minutes ago. Hope Pat's recommendation was a good one!
:-)

Bill

--
Zone 5b (Detroit, MI)
I do not post my address to news groups.

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:12:18 -0400, Noydb
wrote:

Pat Meadows wrote:

This book is available online, used, for about $8.00. It's
well worth the money, IMHO, as she also gives you preferred
seed-starting methods for each of hundreds of plants - most
vegetables and many hundreds of flowers - and actual
photographs of the seed leaves of each plant.

http://www.addall.com.used/ - then you can find it by
putting in the title, and author's name.

Currently on Amazon.com for $10 & up. I just paid $23 for a new copy a few
minutes ago. Hope Pat's recommendation was a good one!
:-)


It is, presuming you're talking about _Parks' Success with
Seeds_.

It's a VERY useful book.

Pat