Koi-lo wrote:

"Gill Passman" wrote in message
.. .

Koi-lo wrote:

OK, I just looked close. There may be two kinds. The stuff on the
glass and what's spreading on the plants looks sooty black - not
brownish or reddish. What's spreading on the bottom stones looks a
brownish red color. I'm afraid this crap is going to smother and kill
my swordplants and water-wisteria. :-(

========

Think I have the same stuff in my Malawi tank - it's the only one that
suffers from this. Reddish/brown/purple stuff on the glass - comes off
easily and is powdery.


Yes, exactly, except this stuff is sooty black - no purple, but then
everyone's lighting and eyesight isn't the same. It's only in one of my
tanks as well, a 55g with goldfish. The other tanks are not affected
(or is that effected?).

Then darker stuff on the rocks and the plants - I

suppose sooty could describe it.


That stuff isn't as sooty as what's on the back. It's more like a
"coating."

I've always put it down to the lack of

plants and the hardness of the water from the Ocean Rock leeching
limestone into it.


That's ANOTHER thing I noticed. None of my hornwart is really thriving
like it's done for so many years. Instead of growing like mad it's
staggering along or actually starting to disintegrate. :-(((( What
the heck is going on? The GF don't bother it and even in the platy tank
it's not doing well.

Plants are nigh on impossible to grow in this tank as

their leaves get covered in the stuff although I have noticed that the
Plec is starting to clean them up a bit.


While the GF are nibbling some of it off the back glass, they're not
doing that on the plants.

I also sometimes move them into

another tank and the otos lap the algae up...seen them clean an
anubias to as good as new in a couple of hours that I had despaired of
before.
Have you got any algae eaters in the tank? Might be worth trying....


I can't keep otos alive. Once the algae is gone they are too! :*(
Also, I would wreck the tank trying to catch them to move them to
another tank. You can't easily catch these AEs in heavily planted
tanks. I've given up on them. As for plecos. I like them, but after a
few weeks they *ALL* would wait for the fish pellets and did little
algae eating. Probably because my tanks don't have much algae. What
they do have is usually a light coating of green algae on the glass and
rocks that I remove myself. I haven't had much luck with algae eaters.
Another AE I tried liked fish-slime-coat a lot more than it liked
algae..........

Any chance you can send me a pic...address is quite easy to
decipher...at least then we can tell if we are dealing with the same
stuff which I still think we are...BTW I'm hopeless at pics as well so
don't get too concerned about the quality

I know what you mean about otos...I had some in the main tank but some
in a betta tank...it took 2 deaths for me to suss the problem...the 3rd
is still alive and kicking in the main tank that has algae...ime they do
not take any processed food...

BTW you should have let us know that you had updated the pics...looking
good :-) Can't see anything wrong with you photography on those.... :-)
Hoping to get my site up and running soon especially before the tank
upgrade...maybe if I nag hubby for help it might be next week....

Gill

"Gill Passman" wrote in message
.. .
Any chance you can send me a pic...address is quite easy to decipher...at
least then we can tell if we are dealing with the same stuff which I still
think we are...BTW I'm hopeless at pics as well so don't get too concerned
about the quality

I just took 3 pics of this black crud and will post them to my website so
everyone can see them. I'll post the link here.

I know what you mean about otos...I had some in the main tank but some in
a betta tank...it took 2 deaths for me to suss the problem...the 3rd is
still alive and kicking in the main tank that has algae...ime they do not
take any processed food...

Yes, that's the problem woth otos. They don't tell you that when you buy
them.

BTW you should have let us know that you had updated the pics...looking
good :-) Can't see anything wrong with you photography on those.... :-)

Those are the ones without overexposure and little flashback from the tank's
glass. I only have a problem with close-ups and trying to get pics of my
fish in their tanks.

Hoping to get my site up and running soon especially before the tank
upgrade...maybe if I nag hubby for help it might be next week....

I know how husbands are. You would think I'd of married another fish
nut,.... but nooOooOoOoOooo....
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
Aquariums: http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastada...ium-Page4.html
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Here they are but with such close-ups there's blur and the colors aren't
quite right. Example - the wallpaper which shows up as gray is really deep
ivy or beige with pale forest green and pastel rust flowers. The algae on
the glass showing up in #3 is black to the human eye but the camera picked
it up as rusty red. The first 2 pics show it as sooty-black. You can see
where the GF have nibbled it away in the past week since I did a water
change. It grows rapidly.

The tall part of the wisteria is covered in this crud as are some of the
leaves of the val.

I also posted these to alt.binaries.aquaria.

http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy/alg1.jpg
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy/alg2/jpg
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy/alg3.jpg


Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
Aquariums: http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastada...ium-Page4.html
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

"Koi-lo" wrote in message
...
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy/alg2/jpg WRONG:

This is the correct URL:

http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy/alg2.jpg
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
Aquariums:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastada...ium-Page4.html
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

In article , Koi-lo Do Not Reply wrote:

http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy/alg1.jpg
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy/alg2/jpg
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy/alg3.jpg

It's diatoms. Change more water.


--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

"Richard Sexton" wrote in message
...
In article , Koi-lo Do Not Reply wrote:

http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy/alg1.jpg
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy/alg2/jpg
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy/alg3.jpg

It's diatoms. Change more water.
=================================
I figured it probably was. I don't know if more water changes are
physically possible. I do 50% water changes twice a month on all my tanks,
and have a lot of tanks to take care of. I guess I'll just have to live
with it.
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
Aquariums: http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastada...ium-Page4.html
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

In article , Koi-lo Do Not Reply wrote:

"Richard Sexton" wrote in message
...
In article , Koi-lo Do Not Reply wrote:

http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy/alg1.jpg
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy/alg2/jpg
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy/alg3.jpg

It's diatoms. Change more water.
=================================
I figured it probably was. I don't know if more water changes are
physically possible. I do 50% water changes twice a month on all my tanks,
and have a lot of tanks to take care of. I guess I'll just have to live
with it.

Ever see what happens when you change that much water every day?

Try 50% once a week. For noew change 80% of the water every day for 2
days and it should jsut go away. Adding cloating plants should
help too.

If you had more light it would be green. Diatoms only grow where
green algae won't grow.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

"Richard Sexton" wrote in message
...
In article , Koi-lo Do Not Reply wrote:

"Richard Sexton" wrote in message
...
In article , Koi-lo Do Not Reply wrote:

http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy/alg1.jpg
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy/alg2/jpg
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy/alg3.jpg

It's diatoms. Change more water.
=================================
I figured it probably was. I don't know if more water changes are
physically possible. I do 50% water changes twice a month on all my
tanks,
and have a lot of tanks to take care of. I guess I'll just have to live
with it.

Ever see what happens when you change that much water every day?

Yep, as I've done that in the past when I was younger and had less tanks.
Usually if there was some problem and I was treating the fish with something
demanding daily changes.

Try 50% once a week. For noew change 80% of the water every day for 2
days and it should jsut go away. Adding cloating plants should
help too.

But what will stop it from coming right back when I go back to twice a
month? I'm not sure what "cloating" plants are but this tank has a lot of
live plants that are fertilized weekly with Flourish or another aquarium
plant fertilizer.

If you had more light it would be green. Diatoms only grow where
green algae won't grow.

I suspected this may be a problem as these 55g tanks only have shop lights
with two 40w fluorescent bulbs over them. I may add another strip to this
one tank and see if that helps. There's just no way I can handle more
water changes indefinitely. The other 55 has the same amount of plants and
fish and yet it doesn't infest that tank.

Thanks for the advice. :-)
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
Aquariums: http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastada...ium-Page4.html
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

But what will stop it from coming right back when I go back to twice a
month? I'm not sure what "cloating" plants are but this tank has a lot of
live plants that are fertilized weekly with Flourish or another aquarium
plant fertilizer.

It aint workin for ya. Diatoms (under low light) and algae (in the
presence of sufficient light) always form is there is consistanly
more ammonia than plant food. Your fertilizers aren't working for you
and if you add more light you'll have green instead of brown algae.

If it were me I'd do exactly as Tom Barr would suggest: change 80% of the
water for two days then use his "Estimative index" method to fertilize;
part of this is a weekly 50% water change. Some fish shit a lot, period,
and they either need a way biger tank or more water changed. That is what
works for a dozen pencilfish will not work for a 3" puffer. Remove all the
fish and add say a dozen shrimp and you'll never have this problem again
due tot he reduced bioload.

You could add WAY more plants, too. Well fed they'll consume ammonia.

Consider rigging an authmatic water draininge or changing system. You hit
an NTS wall without one at some smal number of tanks.

Step one: rent, buy, beg, borrow or steal a glass drill.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

"Richard Sexton" wrote in message
...
But what will stop it from coming right back when I go back to twice a
month? I'm not sure what "cloating" plants are but this tank has a lot of
live plants that are fertilized weekly with Flourish or another aquarium
plant fertilizer.

It aint workin for ya. Diatoms (under low light) and algae (in the
presence of sufficient light) always form is there is consistanly
more ammonia than plant food. Your fertilizers aren't working for you
and if you add more light you'll have green instead of brown algae.

If it were me I'd do exactly as Tom Barr would suggest: change 80% of the
water for two days then use his "Estimative index" method to fertilize;
part of this is a weekly 50% water change. Some fish shit a lot, period,
and they either need a way biger tank or more water changed. That is what
works for a dozen pencilfish will not work for a 3" puffer. Remove all the
fish and add say a dozen shrimp and you'll never have this problem again
due tot he reduced bioload.

I understand what you're saying and will try to make a few major water
changes this week.

You could add WAY more plants, too. Well fed they'll consume ammonia.

That's part of the problem as well. Elodea and hornwart always thrived for
me but for the last few months these plants aren't doing well in any of my
tanks. The hornwart, usually taking over as it grew so fast, is barely
alive. It used to grow 6' long and be nice and bushy. Elodea would grow
into thick tangles. Nothing's changed so I don't know what's causing them
to fail. Even vals, a noxious weed in most tanks isn't thriving in this one
tank with the diatoms/black algae. The Java moss is hanging on but not
growing. Only the Amazon swords seem to do OK but I can't afford to buy a
load of them because they're so expensive.

Consider rigging an authmatic water draininge or changing system. You hit
an NTS wall without one at some smal number of tanks.

That's not possible as these tanks are in the sun-fishroom and not in a
basement. It's also cost prohibitive. What is an NST wall?

Step one: rent, buy, beg, borrow or steal a glass drill.

Step one is to win the lottery ........ :-))
--

Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

In article , Koi-lo Do Not Reply wrote:
That's part of the problem as well. Elodea and hornwart always thrived for
me but for the last few months these plants aren't doing well in any of my

They're starving to death. Feed them. Nitrates and phospahtes and K, oh my!



--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

"Richard Sexton" wrote in message
...
In article , Koi-lo Do Not Reply wrote:
That's part of the problem as well. Elodea and hornwart always thrived
for
me but for the last few months these plants aren't doing well in any of my

They're starving to death. Feed them. Nitrates and phospahtes and K, oh
my!
================================================
I am feeding them. I'm using Flourish and Flourish with Iron plus two other
products. It's not making much difference. Nitrates? I have a reading in
that tank of 20 ppm nitrate all the time. I stays pretty stable. The
fertilizers supposed to contain P&K. I'm not doing anything different than
I've done in the past. I can't see why these plants are no longer thriving.

The other tests showed:

Hardness: 300ppm
Alkalinity: 300ppm
PH: 7.8
--
Koi-Lo.... frugal ponding since 1995...
Aquariums since 1952
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/s/h/shastadaisy
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

In article , Koi-lo Do Not Reply wrote:
They're starving to death. Feed them. Nitrates and phospahtes and K, oh
my!
=============================================== =
I am feeding them. I'm using Flourish and Flourish with Iron plus two other
products. It's not making much difference. Nitrates? I have a reading in
that tank of 20 ppm nitrate all the time. I stays pretty stable. The
fertilizers supposed to contain P&K. I'm not doing anything different than
I've done in the past. I can't see why these plants are no longer thriving.

The other tests showed:

Hardness: 300ppm
Alkalinity: 300ppm
PH: 7.8


Well, you could measure a dozen or two levels of various
things or you could just change enough water so you don't have to.

Either not enough of a certain nutrient or too much of some waste is almost
certainly your problem.

--
Need Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net