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#16
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Black Alge?
"Richard Sexton" wrote in message ... In article , Koi-Lo My impersonator is Roy TJ Hauer aka Roy. wrote: "Richard Sexton" wrote in message ... I don't use any chemicals in my tanks. I rely on the fish. I feed the fish and the fish feed the plants. The problem is they don't. Fertilize properly and use Co2 OR Flourish Excel and it'll go away by itself. In your tanks maybe. I bought all those Seachem fertilizers plus Flourish and still have black-red algae. Let people know before spending a lot of cash that what works for YOU may not work for THEM. I had this crap for 7 years till Tom Barr convinced me if I put fertilizer in the tank the algae will go away. He uses CO2 I use Excel. Both work. But not for everyone since not everyone has the exact same conditions you do and these products are not cheap. Any fool that can use google can see it's worked for everybody except you and one other guy. This comes as no surprise as I suepct the laws of physics don't actually apply at your house. And any fool knows all tanks are different with different loads, different water conditions, different gallonage, differing numbers and types of plants. And I suspect my conditions are not like your conditions. And you are WRONG,... there was another woman here who had it fail for her as well. If she sees this thread she may reply. Excel is $8. A full load of chemicals for a year is $12 from a hydroponics store. $12.00? When? 30 years ago? Or are you talking about for one 10g tank? The shipping and handling *alone* was $18 at the last recommended website I checked out for these chemicals - that didn't include the price of any of the chemicals (micronutrients, iron supplements etc). As for the Seachem products, the typical 250ml size doesn't go very far when one has several 55g tanks or even several smaller tanks. -- KL.... Frugal ponding since 1995. Aquariums since 1952. My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58 ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({* |
#17
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Black Alge?
"Dick" wrote in message ... On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 17:56:55 +0000 (UTC), (Richard Sexton) wrote: I don't use any chemicals in my tanks. I rely on the fish. I feed the fish and the fish feed the plants. The problem is they don't. Fertilize properly and use Co2 OR Flourish Excel and it'll go away by itself. I had this crap for 7 years till Tom Barr convinced me if I put fertilizer in the tank the algae will go away. He uses CO2 I use Excel. Both work. "The problem is they don't?" Well, excuse me, I have been misled. I wish my plants would read your response. Maybe I could spend less time thinning the ignorant plants in my tanks. My tanks have been relying on their fish for over 3 years. I have an aversion to any special additives, I am a bad, careless chemist. I can't have as wide a variety of plants, but I am pleased with the ones I have. I wonder if the fertilizer may not be a contributing factor to the problem. dick ======================= I'm wondering if all the additives I used contributed to the mysterious deaths of my delicate fancy goldfish. Not one outside fish died during that time. Nothing was added to their (outdoor) tanks. All these chemicals did was give my plants an initial boost and slowed the black sooty algae to a near stop. The plants reacted with a burst of new growth, but then I also added stronger light at the same time to discourage those "toilet tank diatoms". But then the effects wore off, the new plants started to fade away and the old standbys we've had for years are still with us. The Excel didn't turn any of the algae white and cause it to "fall off" the plants or glass as I was told it would. And it's darned expensive to use all these supplements when you have two 55s and four 10s. I'm going to stick with my old plants that thrive under our conditions for now. The plecos and otos cleaned most of the slowed-down algae off the plants and glass. -- KL.... Frugal ponding since 1995. Aquariums since 1952. My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58 ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({* |
#18
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Black Alge?
Dick wrote: I wonder if the fertilizer may not be a contributing factor to the problem. dick No, not to BGA. 99% of the algae issues in fully/mostly planted tanks is related to a lack of something, not an excess. Your plants are not growing, that's why you have algae.........they might look okay, but compared to their potential growth, they are just sitting there, idling till there is enough nutrients to grow. You can easily induce BGA, Oscillitoria (species: splendens mostly), by reducing/stopping NO3 dosing and maintaining the Traces, PO4, K+ dosing etc. This will drive the NO3 to near zero. You'll see it along the gravel edge and glass, typically closest to ambient light/windows etc. So knowing this, you can kill off the BGA, but.......much much much more importantly, now you know what is the root cause for it's appearance, thus do preventitive maintenance. Say you want nice looking teeth(Planted tank), do you brush them often or do you wait till you have cavities(algae all over) and need a root canal? Stop neglecting the tank. Add more KNO3 and BGA will not appear again if you keep up on things(NO3 dosing). Now while many tanks have different fish, loading etc, BGA grows for very definable reasons................as well as most algae, they are more specific than plants in terms of the environmental parameters they enjoy and what induces the spores to germinate into adults. I do not need to know what your tank is like, the ppms etc, I know right away that there is either a clogged filter, too few water changes, flithy conditions due to a very long peroid of neglect, or much more commonly: low/absent NO3. Many of the algae can be used to know what is wrong with an aquarist's tank rapidly, BBA= low or too much variation in the CO2 levels throughout the day, GW= anything that causes a slight build up on NH4. Staghorn: urea build up from excess fish/critter loading= similar the GW reasons. And the list goes on and on......... Know your enemy and what makes them grow. Too few planted aquarist know much about algae other than they hate it and want to get rid of it. So rather than inducing it to learn more about it, they instead focus all their time and efforts trying to get rid of it and they end up guessing for many years, they assume many incorrect things and then lots of myths get circulated. If you know what induces the spores to germinate and produce a bloom, then you know what is going on......... I do not see why this concept is so strange to folks............Stop guessing and figure it out. I did and can show folks how to prove the same obvservations to themselves and inducement methods. Then you'll know and stop the years of guessing. Once the BGA starts to grow, like most adult algae, the adults are much tougher than the spores, think about it...........does a little seedling have a better chance than a large adult tree? Of course not. Nor the reserves and nutrient storage capacity. So while adding KNO3 will address the long range issue and prevent it from coming back, the 3 blackout/50% water change + good cleaning and 1/4 teaspoon KNO3 per 80 luiters of tank thereafter, 3 days of blackout(Turn CO2 off) followed by the same 50% water change and dosing again(turn lights on/CO2 etc) will kill all the BGA you have. Trash bags 2 layers thick are ideal and you should make sure no light gets in through the trash bags. Yes, you can feed your fishj, yes, you can peak, no your plants are not so weak that this treatment will harm them, they do send in the mail and it's not the dark mailbox that causes shipping issues, it's freezing or excess heat melting them. So there is a simple, FREE, non herbical, non antibiotic method anyone can do, that addresses every type of tank(KNO3 dose is less for non CO2 tanks, marine tanks, oh yes, it works very well for marine tanks......), it's extremely effective. Often times with mild cases, no blackout is even needed. A good cleaning, with some large water changes and redose with KNO3. Some folks spot treat after with some H2O2. Some use the pills/antibiotics in conjunction with the KNO3 dosing. I don't care how you kill the BGA, but make sure you address why it showed up in the first place. Pills, H2O2 etc never would show you what induiced the BGA..............the black will quickly be reinfected if you did not do the KNO3 dosing.......... That is the real critical part. Antiobiotics will take longer for reinfection, too long to make the observation that the low NO3 induces the BGA.......... A healthy group of growing plants is a much better look than weak plants limited by NO3, you might be okay with that.........but it's a poor method over the long run when you could be gardening and growing anything you want with a very few, small changes. In general, for CO2 enriched tanks: at least 1/4 teaspoon per 80 liters weekly in a min, for non CO2, maybe 1/16th-1/8th 2-4x a month depending on fish load/feeding etc. Adding cory cats will help also against BGA on the gravel. After 12 months or more, deep vac the gravel also, this gets rid of the sour organic material and helps improve the O2 levels/circulation in the gravel. Hope this helps, Regards, Tom Barr |
#19
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Black Alge?
Richard Sexton wrote: You're not dosing with Potassium nitrate. That's your major problem. And fits __precisely__ with what I've said for several years about BGA. Low NO3 causes BGA spores to germinate. He's adding PO4 from the well water, plenty of traces, some fish waste etc, everything except extra K and NO3. Folks that try and water change the BGA are often very frustrated because once it's there, it's very tough to get rid of and can live on very low nutrients, like Green water...........green dust algae zoospores etc You need to provide a nice range of nutrients for plants in order for them to grow well, not too low= algae, not too high= dead fish from very high NO3(100ppm or more using KNO3) EI is a simple method to do that so you spend more time feeding fish, gardening and less time fiddling with test kits, calibration solutions etc....but some folk enjoy that.... I think there is a water testing forum somewhere, that's "their" hobby. haha Regards, Tom Barr |
#20
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Black Alge?
wrote in message ups.com... You need to provide a nice range of nutrients for plants in order for them to grow well, not too low= algae, not too high= dead fish from very high NO3(100ppm or more using KNO3) ==================== Not everyone knows what you're talking about. Not being a chemist, I have no idea what the above are. And not everyone can afford a large number of tests kits. So we tend to stick to the plants that thrive for us with a minimum of supplements. -- KL Aquariums since 1952. My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58 ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({* |
#21
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Black Alge?
Well your just a ****ing dumbass Carol.........no one expected "YOU" to understand a freaking thing anyhow. On Tue, 27 Jun 2006 09:45:32 -0500, "Koi-Lo" ¤?¤@ö½.Õ..Õ¢ wrote: wrote in message oups.com... You need to provide a nice range of nutrients for plants in order for them to grow well, not too low= algae, not too high= dead fish from very high NO3(100ppm or more using KNO3) ==================== Not everyone knows what you're talking about. Not being a chemist, I have no idea what the above are. And not everyone can afford a large number of tests kits. So we tend to stick to the plants that thrive for us with a minimum of supplements. You can reach -Ed Alston at -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#22
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Black Alge?
Hi..
The phosphate is from the well water I get. I've tried every product out there to get rid of it. Nothing works so I've learned to live with it. I'll try the 'big cleaning' route and crank up the CO2 and light and see where we go from there. Cyanobacteria are mostly no good at tolerating changes in lightening and water conditions. I've seen it several times: filter mud inputs were able to stop them. My favourite way to stop and remove them are daily tap water changes of 85% netto over a period of 7 days minimum. Another ("harder") method were a dimout (lights of, tank enveloped and running with an extra air stone) for a week. Your plants might suffer but would survive. HTH. -- cu Marco |
#23
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Black Alge?
Carol I'm sure you're doing your best. But you seem to live in a parallel
universe where nothing is the same. Your single data point does not invalidate the experiences of a large number of poeple. -- Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net |
#25
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Black Alge?
time. Nothing was added to their (outdoor) tanks. All these chemicals did
was give my plants an initial boost and slowed the black sooty algae to a near stop. The plants reacted with a burst of new growth, but then I also Therefore you concluded you were on the wrong path? Ooooooooook... -- Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net |
#26
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Black Alge?
In article ,
Marco Schwarz wrote: Hi.. The phosphate is from the well water I get. I've tried every product out there to get rid of it. Nothing works so I've learned to live with it. I'll try the 'big cleaning' route and crank up the CO2 and light and see where we go from there. Cyanobacteria are mostly no good at tolerating changes in lightening and water conditions. I've seen it several times: filter mud inputs were able to stop them. My favourite way to stop and remove them are daily tap water changes of 85% netto over a period of 7 days minimum. Yup. But as Tom says, this just cures the sympton not the cause. But yes it does work. For a neglected tank I change 80% per day for two days then 50% a day for 5 days and it looks like new. If I actually get off my lazy butt and fertilize, the alage neevr comes back. -- Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net |
#27
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Black Alge?
In article . com,
wrote: You need to provide a nice range of nutrients for plants in order for them to grow well, not too low= algae, not too high= dead fish from very high NO3(100ppm or more using KNO3) Crytps will curl the leaf ends with 3 weeks of 200 ppm but I never say a fish, shrimp or snail be even uncomfortable let alone dead. -- Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net |
#28
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Black Alge?
Not everyone knows what you're talking about.
True. And not everyone can afford a large number of tests kits. Tom is saying you don't need test kits. He's right about that. So we tend to stick to the plants that thrive for us with a minimum of supplements. They're not "supplements" they're "food". -- Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net |
#29
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Black Alge?
"Richard Sexton" wrote in message ... Carol I'm sure you're doing your best. But you seem to live in a parallel universe where nothing is the same. Your single data point does not invalidate the experiences of a large number of poeple. ================================= I did what was suggested I do. That was the major water changes and thorough gravel vacuuming. I ordered all the supplements from Foster & Smith. I followed the directions on the containers. The algae never turned white and never fell off. You seem to be living in a Universe where everything is identical....... odd that! I sent Gill pictures of some tanks/fish which clearly show the black-red algae was still there, weeks after adding all these expensive supplements. When I saw they weren't working I went ahead and bought the otos and plecs. It's not fair to have people believe of they add these supplements they *WILL* work regardless of gallonage, filters, lighting or fish load. That is unless there's a money-back guarantee, which there isn't. -- KL....... Frugal ponding since 1995. Aquariums since 1952. My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58 ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({* |
#30
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Black Alge?
"Richard Sexton" wrote in message ... time. Nothing was added to their (outdoor) tanks. All these chemicals did was give my plants an initial boost and slowed the black sooty algae to a near stop. The plants reacted with a burst of new growth, but then I also Therefore you concluded you were on the wrong path? Ooooooooook... =================== And yet I continued on using the supplements since I already had them - bought and paid for. Did you think I threw then away? I'm still using them. The old plants are doing fine as they always have. Most of the new ones are dead and gone. Some black sooty and black hairy algae remains. -- KL.... Aquariums since 1952. My Pond & Aquarium Pages: http://tinyurl.com/9do58 ~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({* |
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