Rena micro bubblers. I suggested that Rick try these as I am getting
better results with them than I did running CO2 through the filter intake, and
I'm getting close to 35 ppm CO2 into my tank; a drop from 8.1 to 7.2 in water
with a KH of 16. They work great for me. Rick, you might try mixing some
cheap bakers yeast with the wine yeast. I found the wine yeast takes longer to
get going and never gets as high a ppm but does last longer. I'm mixing a
highly recommended wine yeast with my Fleishman's. BUT, to get that 35 ppm or
so, I'm heating my yeast bottles to about 85 degrees. Even with the added
heat, the individual bottle will last 2 weeks and I just change one of the pair
a week.

"Dave M. Picklyk" wrote in message
...
I wouldn't buffer the water with baking soda (unless you have acidic water
already---but 7.6 should drop to about 6.8 or so which is fine for most
fish)--if you do that, you cannot accurately measure C02 with KH and PH
readings without strictly letting your water be carbonate buffered
(natural
buffering capacity of the water). Also, some natural water supplies have
high phosphate content, which invalidates any calculations for C02
readings
including C02 test kits.

Just a thought,
Dave.


Actually, you can buffer your water with baking soda all you want and still
be able to accurately gauge CO2 with pH and KH measurements. Sodium
Bicarbonate would not violate the condition of the water being
carbonate-buffered.
__
Alex

"Rick" wrote in message
a...

like some pearling. I also have a 1 gallon jug hooked up into my 77G tank.
I
hooked it up two days ago and have yet to see a bubble. I have added
another
1/4 teaspoon of yeast yesterday, nada, added another 1/4 today from a
fresh
package. I hooked up another one gallon jug and added fresh yeast to it,
both jugs are hooked up via a t connection. On the first jug if I removed
the line from the anti siphon valve and held it under water while I
vigorously shook the jug I would get a few bubbles and then nothing so it

It sounds like there might be a leak in the system somewhere. I think you
should see at least some bubbles being produced. Use a spray bottle to spray
soapy water on all the connections, and if there is CO2 leaking somewhere,
you would see the bubbles being produced by the soapy water.

Remember, don't diffuse DIY CO2. It will just let the bubbles escape to the
surface without the CO2 having much chance to dissolve. Inject it into your
filter, or use one of those spiral reactors that comes with the Hagen CO2
system.
__
Alex

"Alex R" wrote in message
news:BKz1a.47589$iG3.6416@sccrnsc02...
"Jamie D" wrote in message
news:VX91a.30988$2H6.684@sccrnsc04...

The amount the pH will change depends on the kH of the water in the
tank.
The more dissolved carbonates, the less the pH will change. What is your
kH?

Jamie


That's absolutely NOT true. The amount the pH will drop is independent of
the KH. The KH only determines the starting and ending values of the pH.
But
the difference will be the same, regardless of the KH. If you're starting
with a pH of 7.6, then you should aim for a pH of 6.8-6.9.
__
Alex
pcalex (at) hotpop.com


Oops .. sorry, you're absolutely right. I stand corrected. Brain freeze
perhaps.

Jamie
~

"SLEngst" wrote in message
...
Rena micro bubblers. I suggested that Rick try these as I am getting
better results with them than I did running CO2 through the filter intake,
and
I'm getting close to 35 ppm CO2 into my tank; a drop from 8.1 to 7.2 in
water
with a KH of 16. They work great for me. Rick, you might try mixing some
cheap bakers yeast with the wine yeast. I found the wine yeast takes
longer to
get going and never gets as high a ppm but does last longer. I'm mixing a
highly recommended wine yeast with my Fleishman's. BUT, to get that 35
ppm or
so, I'm heating my yeast bottles to about 85 degrees. Even with the added
heat, the individual bottle will last 2 weeks and I just change one of the
pair
a week.


the bubbler is working fine, steady stream of fine bubbles coming out, just
nothing doing on the PH scale. I'll give the bakers yeast a try on my double
bottle glass set up on my large tank where I have yet to see a bubble in 2
days.

Rick

"Alex R" wrote in message
news:vAz1a.48790$tq4.3287@sccrnsc01...
"Rick" wrote in message
...
I set up 2 liter bottle of DIY CO2 about 10 days ago, mixed up 2 cups
of
sugar, 1/4 tsp of yeast and a pinch of baking soda and filled the bottle
about 3/4 full. I initially had this hooked into a powerhead. It was
dispensing as I could see the puffs of gas coming out of the output. I
recently bought some Rena Micro bubblers to use rather than the power
head
and now have the bottle with a fresh mix (last night) hooked into a 4"
bubbler in a 20g planted tank. My Ph in the tank remains at about 7.6. I
can
see bubbles coming out of the bubbler but should the PH not change ?. Is
the
tank not getting enough CO2, one would think in a 20g that one two liter
bottle would be enough, yes, no??


If the pH is not changing, that means there's no extra CO2 being dissolved
from your generator. And it's obvious why. You're using an airstone to
diffuse your CO2 gas. DIY CO2 cannot be diffused successfully because the
pressure needed to run an adequate diffuser must be much higher than the
yeast generator can produce. A powerhead would work much better in your
case
because it would act as a reactor. Or you can inject it directly into your
power or canister filter. That's what most people do, I believe. Your CO2
level should increase overnight as much as it will ever increase.
__
Alex

I had a power head hooked up to the CO2 line for a week and the results
were exactly the same, no ph change even though I could clearly see the
puffs of gas coming out of the powerhead. I'm using the Rena micro bubble
that has a ceramic insert and is specifically recommended for dispensing
CO2.

Rick

DIY CO2 cannot be diffused successfully because the
pressure needed to run an adequate diffuser must be much higher than the
yeast generator can produce.
Alex

First thing to say is that I'm new to the whole Aquarium thing (2 months) so
please be gentle when replying as I could be talking through my Arse (Irish
for Bum).

Alex, are you saying that a DIY CO2 setup cannot produce enought pressure to
blow through an airstone? From my home brewing experience I know that not
only can CO2 do this easily, but it can also shatter glass bottles or blow
corks out of well sealed bottles (hence the wire around Champangue corks).
If the CO2 was not able to force its way through the airstone then Rick
would not see any bubbles.

I must admit Rick, that I am in a similar position to yourself. I have a DIY
CO2 which is connected to an airstone positioned in my (in tank) filter,
just at the up take for my powerhead (Juewl Rekord 120 tank). My tank looks
like the inside of a shaken pop bottle, with lots of tiny CO2 bubbles
diffused around it. The smaller the bubbles are, the longer it takes them to
rise to the surface, hence the longer I presume it gives the CO2 to disolve.

check out my tank at http://www.mcconnellhousehold.com/Main.htm Please bear
in mind that this is my first website & my first tank.

I too have seen no real change in my PH. I hade taken this to be, that the
acid generated by the desolving CO2 was being neutralised by the KH buffer
in the water. I expected to see my KH drop and then my PH drop. My KH is
dropping slowly, but this is probably not helped by me doing 25% water
changes 1/week. My tap water is PH 7.2 KH 6

I think the advise regarding starting with a small amount of yeast is that
you get a slow build up of CO2, rather than one big bang as it were. The
yeast is multiplying so eventually you will probably end up with the same
saturation of yeast in the mixture.

I don't know if any of this makes sence

All the best

Dave Mc

"Dave Mc" wrote in message
...
DIY CO2 cannot be diffused successfully because the
pressure needed to run an adequate diffuser must be much higher than the
yeast generator can produce.
Alex

First thing to say is that I'm new to the whole Aquarium thing (2 months)
so
please be gentle when replying as I could be talking through my Arse
(Irish
for Bum).

Alex, are you saying that a DIY CO2 setup cannot produce enought pressure
to
blow through an airstone? From my home brewing experience I know that not
only can CO2 do this easily, but it can also shatter glass bottles or blow
corks out of well sealed bottles (hence the wire around Champangue corks).
If the CO2 was not able to force its way through the airstone then Rick
would not see any bubbles.

I must admit Rick, that I am in a similar position to yourself. I have a
DIY
CO2 which is connected to an airstone positioned in my (in tank) filter,
just at the up take for my powerhead (Juewl Rekord 120 tank). My tank
looks
like the inside of a shaken pop bottle, with lots of tiny CO2 bubbles
diffused around it. The smaller the bubbles are, the longer it takes them
to
rise to the surface, hence the longer I presume it gives the CO2 to
disolve.

check out my tank at http://www.mcconnellhousehold.com/Main.htm Please
bear
in mind that this is my first website & my first tank.

I too have seen no real change in my PH. I hade taken this to be, that the
acid generated by the desolving CO2 was being neutralised by the KH buffer
in the water. I expected to see my KH drop and then my PH drop. My KH is
dropping slowly, but this is probably not helped by me doing 25% water
changes 1/week. My tap water is PH 7.2 KH 6

I think the advise regarding starting with a small amount of yeast is that
you get a slow build up of CO2, rather than one big bang as it were. The
yeast is multiplying so eventually you will probably end up with the same
saturation of yeast in the mixture.

I don't know if any of this makes sence

All the best

Dave Mc




Nice looking tank Dave, and great family pictures. In regards to the CO2
stuff we are both beginners in that area but I did do research and talked to
a lot of people. Lots run their co2 through an airstone with the main
negative that I found was that the pressure of the co2 tends to eventually
break apart the normal airstones, thus the reason I bought the ceramic Rena
bubblers which are expensive in relation to a normal stone. I might hook up
another bottle to my 20 g tank and see if doubling the co2 makes a
difference. Right now I'm tearing my hair out trying to figure out why I get
nothing out of my two glass jugs joined with a T fitting. I have checked and
rechecked all the fittings, used some duct tape around all the joints at the
T and the anti siphon value, silconed around where the tubes enter via the
rubber stopper and little if anything. If I remove the line and put it in a
pail of water and then vigorously shake the bottle I get a few bubbles but
they quickly fade out so obviously there is very little pressure being built
up in that mixture. Oh well, back to the drawing board.

Rick

the only sure way to find a leak is to put the whole apparatus (bottles,
tubing, etc.) underwater with the output at the same depth or greater as it
would be in the tank. you'll see your leak(s) right away.

i went crazy trying to find mine and it turned out to be a crack in the body
of a check valve. i would have never found it otherwise.

it will only take the length of time to fill the bathtub to do it and you'll
be a happy guy!

jtm

--
Remove NOSPAM for email replies
"Rick" wrote in message
a...

"Dave Mc" wrote in message
...
DIY CO2 cannot be diffused successfully because the
pressure needed to run an adequate diffuser must be much higher than the
yeast generator can produce.
Alex

First thing to say is that I'm new to the whole Aquarium thing (2 months)
so
please be gentle when replying as I could be talking through my Arse
(Irish
for Bum).

Alex, are you saying that a DIY CO2 setup cannot produce enought pressure
to
blow through an airstone? From my home brewing experience I know that not
only can CO2 do this easily, but it can also shatter glass bottles or blow
corks out of well sealed bottles (hence the wire around Champangue corks).
If the CO2 was not able to force its way through the airstone then Rick
would not see any bubbles.

I must admit Rick, that I am in a similar position to yourself. I have a
DIY
CO2 which is connected to an airstone positioned in my (in tank) filter,
just at the up take for my powerhead (Juewl Rekord 120 tank). My tank
looks
like the inside of a shaken pop bottle, with lots of tiny CO2 bubbles
diffused around it. The smaller the bubbles are, the longer it takes them
to
rise to the surface, hence the longer I presume it gives the CO2 to
disolve.

check out my tank at http://www.mcconnellhousehold.com/Main.htm Please
bear
in mind that this is my first website & my first tank.

I too have seen no real change in my PH. I hade taken this to be, that the
acid generated by the desolving CO2 was being neutralised by the KH buffer
in the water. I expected to see my KH drop and then my PH drop. My KH is
dropping slowly, but this is probably not helped by me doing 25% water
changes 1/week. My tap water is PH 7.2 KH 6

I think the advise regarding starting with a small amount of yeast is that
you get a slow build up of CO2, rather than one big bang as it were. The
yeast is multiplying so eventually you will probably end up with the same
saturation of yeast in the mixture.

I don't know if any of this makes sence

All the best

Dave Mc




Nice looking tank Dave, and great family pictures. In regards to the CO2
stuff we are both beginners in that area but I did do research and talked to
a lot of people. Lots run their co2 through an airstone with the main
negative that I found was that the pressure of the co2 tends to eventually
break apart the normal airstones, thus the reason I bought the ceramic Rena
bubblers which are expensive in relation to a normal stone. I might hook up
another bottle to my 20 g tank and see if doubling the co2 makes a
difference. Right now I'm tearing my hair out trying to figure out why I get
nothing out of my two glass jugs joined with a T fitting. I have checked and
rechecked all the fittings, used some duct tape around all the joints at the
T and the anti siphon value, silconed around where the tubes enter via the
rubber stopper and little if anything. If I remove the line and put it in a
pail of water and then vigorously shake the bottle I get a few bubbles but
they quickly fade out so obviously there is very little pressure being built
up in that mixture. Oh well, back to the drawing board.

Rick

"Jim Miller" wrote in message
...
the only sure way to find a leak is to put the whole apparatus (bottles,
tubing, etc.) underwater with the output at the same depth or greater as
it
would be in the tank. you'll see your leak(s) right away.

i went crazy trying to find mine and it turned out to be a crack in the
body
of a check valve. i would have never found it otherwise.

it will only take the length of time to fill the bathtub to do it and
you'll
be a happy guy!

jtm

--

the only thing that I have not completely immersed in water is the top
portion of the jug and with that I sprayed soapy water around it and saw
nothing. Here is what has happened since. I removed both one gallon jugs. I
poured the contents of one jug in two liter pop bottle and hooked that up to
a micro bubbler and installed it in my 20 g tank and it was happily bubbling
away so it was not the yeast mixture. I then took the 2nd jug and hooked it
directly to another bubbler in my 77g tank bypassing the t connector and it
is bubbling way so it would appear that something in that connector is amiss
however as I mentioned I had that thing completely under water and nothing
was seen. The only other thing that comes to mind is could there be a
considerable loss of pressure if you lines are too long. I simply hooked
this up on a trial basis with an existing piece of line which was likely 6'
too long. The jugs were on the floor so the line went up several feet to the
tank and then down 2 feet to the bottom and in addition I had several feet
of extra line. Since I removed that extra line and the T connector things
seem to be working, and I was out checking on the cost of a pressurized
system. About $250.00 for gauge and regulator and another $100 to rent a
tank and $35.00 for a fill. The tank rental of course is a one time charge.

Rick

"Dave Mc" wrote in message
...
DIY CO2 cannot be diffused successfully because the
pressure needed to run an adequate diffuser must be much higher than the
yeast generator can produce.
Alex

Alex, are you saying that a DIY CO2 setup cannot produce enought pressure
to
blow through an airstone? From my home brewing experience I know that not
only can CO2 do this easily, but it can also shatter glass bottles or blow
corks out of well sealed bottles (hence the wire around Champangue corks).
If the CO2 was not able to force its way through the airstone then Rick
would not see any bubbles.

Actually, what I meant by an adequate diffuser was something like the Eheim
diffuser used under high pressure in pressurized systems. And yes, the
pressure from the yeast will eventually build up to that level, but you'll
probably get leaks in the connections or the cork blowing out before you can
force CO2 through that diffuser. So my reasoning was that the Rena bubbler
wasn't producing small-enough bubbles if it was able to run under a low
pressure. But I did look up this product in the Drs. Foster & Smith catalog,
and they actually say that it can be used to diffuse CO2. So, I don't know,
it might actually work with yeast systems. BTW, a DIY system can easily push
CO2 through a regular airstone, but it wouldn't work well by itself as a
diffuser.
__
Alex R

seem to be working, and I was out checking on the cost of a pressurized
system. About $250.00 for gauge and regulator and another $100 to rent a
tank and $35.00 for a fill. The tank rental of course is a one time
charge.

http://www.dlink.org/aqua/CO2.html

--
Thank You

Dominic
http://www.dlink.org/aqua

"Aqua" wrote in message
...
seem to be working, and I was out checking on the cost of a pressurized
system. About $250.00 for gauge and regulator and another $100 to rent a
tank and $35.00 for a fill. The tank rental of course is a one time
charge.

http://www.dlink.org/aqua/CO2.html

--
Thank You

Dominic
http://www.dlink.org/aqua




that was great info., thx. After reading the dangers of using CO2 I'm having
2nd thoughts about it.

Rick

Alex, are you saying that a DIY CO2 setup cannot produce enought
pressure
to
blow through an airstone?

Actually, what I meant by an adequate diffuser was something like the
Eheim
diffuser used under high pressure in pressurized systems.

Thanks for the heads up Alex. As I say I'm new to this lark. I've gone and
read some articles on thekrib about CO2, KH & PH. From these I would have to
assume that my CO2 may not be desolving well, even though I'm getting a lot
of bubbles in my tank (see my close up photos at
http://www.mcconnellhousehold.com/Main.htm) I might try building a reactor
like thoes detailed at the krib, but if my readings are accurate my CO2
should be between 10 and 18 ppm, (KH 6ish PH 7-7.2) and this is probably
sufficient for my needs. After all I am keeping this primarily as a fish
tank.

Dave Mc

"Dave Mc" wrote in message
...

Alex, are you saying that a DIY CO2 setup cannot produce enought
pressure
to
blow through an airstone?

Actually, what I meant by an adequate diffuser was something like the
Eheim
diffuser used under high pressure in pressurized systems.

Thanks for the heads up Alex. As I say I'm new to this lark. I've gone and
read some articles on thekrib about CO2, KH & PH. From these I would have
to
assume that my CO2 may not be desolving well, even though I'm getting a
lot
of bubbles in my tank (see my close up photos at
http://www.mcconnellhousehold.com/Main.htm) I might try building a
reactor
like thoes detailed at the krib, but if my readings are accurate my CO2
should be between 10 and 18 ppm, (KH 6ish PH 7-7.2) and this is probably
sufficient for my needs. After all I am keeping this primarily as a fish
tank.

Dave Mc




after adding another pop bottle to my 20 g tank my ph dropped overnight from
the 7.5 or so that is was to about 6.5 this morning. Obviously one bottle is
not enough in a 20g tank. Fish all seem fine and as most are Tetras they
prefer soft water anyway.

Rick