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  #31   Report Post  
Old 30-03-2004, 02:05 AM
Shawn P. Good
 
Posts: n/a
Default Barley Straw Extract for Green Water Algae ?

Tom : Thanks for the detailed response. I appreciate it. I'm 2 days into
my blackout. I'm going to go the full 4 days and see what the effect is.
If I don't have any luck, I'll start trying other things, as you suggested.
All I know is before I decided to try a planted tank, I had Malawi cichlids
and just rocks and my water was always crystal clear. Now I have a medium
densely planted community tank. The plants are doing very very well, and
spreading and growing - especially since I upped my lighting from the
standard single 4' bulb of 40 watts to 2 bulbs (6500K) totalling 110 watts.
I also added a small do-it-yourself CO2 injection system (2 litre pop
bottle, yeast, sugar etc) with a diffuser. Probably not as much as I SHOULD
be putting into a 55-gal tank, but my plants sure perked up. Somewhere
along the way though, the green water decided IT liked the conditions too
and now I can't stand to look at my tank. It used to be a joy. Now it's
ugly and a chore. I don't think I have too many fish. I have 5 zebra
danios, 8 rasboros, 4 platys, 1 black molly, 6 red minor tetras, 5 black
tetras, and 2 very small plecos.

My water conditions are always checking out and seemed balanced.

I don't know where the h*ll it came from !

Shawn



" wrote in message
om...
"Shawn P. Good" wrote in message

I'm crossing my fingers .....

Shawn (Original Poster on the Barely Straw Extract)


Shawn, you will not beat GW in high light tank with nutrients and
often blackouts will not work as they often a week later come back.

The best method is mechanical filtration and/or UV sterilizers which
make quick work of GW in your case. Mild cases, less light, etc, water
changes, various algae snake oils will often work. But using PC lights
etc over 2.5w, generally the GW will stay for months or more.

You can use a diatom filter, or a cheap 9 3/4" filter cartiage from
Home depot, put a 5 micron pleated filter in there and run it for a
day or two with the filter outflow etc or a powerhead.

That's only about 20$ and makes a good water polisher.

GW is induced clearly by anything that influences the NH4 loading
rate.
Plants that are doing well will remove all of it before algae really
have a chance to get at it. When enough NH4 is present + high light,
the algae bloom.
Once they have bloomed, you cannot get rid of them without physical
removal, their nutrients needs are far beyond your test and even the
best labs in the USA's capability resolution, less than 2-4ppb PO4.
Yes, part's per _billion_.
There are not aquatic plants that can survive with that little PO4.
They also can use dissoloved organic PO4, wereas plants cannot in
many/most cases.

You can also use those hagen quick filters.
I'd do that with a blackout unless you have gloss etc, should be the
cheapest.
Borrowing a UV from a friend also works.

Once you get rid of it, make sure you do not slow the plant's uptake
of NH4 etc.

Adding too many fish will cause an algae for this precise reason, it
has nothing to do with PO4 and everything to do with NH4.

I can add 2ppm of PO4, I never can/could induce GW.
I went to 2ppm of PO4 and 75ppm of NO3 at 4 w/gal at a 16" depth and
lots of traces.

Later a small amount of NH4 was added and within 12 to 30 hours a
green water bloom. UV the tank, and repeated this several times.
Then tried adding progressively more and more fish/shrimp till an
algae bloom occured.

If you think PO4 causes algae, and removing it will help the plants,
you need to do some research on your own and also look up in the
literature. There's plenty of research out there but be careful to
apply the specific reference to your question that you are asking and
want to know about.
Marine algae or a plantless lake in Canada are not like a shallow
eutropic plant filled lake in the tropics. If you even see a plant
fill shallow lake, even if the nutrient levels are high or low, if you
add PO4 etc, the lakes remain gin clear.

Most folks that have issues with algae, often have problems with
dosing in general, often have trouble with CO2 mainly or NO3 or both.

You cannot say PO4 causes algae unless you make it your dependent
variable.
Other wise CO2/NO3 etc limitation is causing the problem and not high
PO4.

Until folks figure that out, that make incorrect assumptions about
algae and plants.

Other methods to deal with GW: Daphnia, copper sulfate,
blackout(generally takes 5 days)
If after the GW is gone and it comes back again, try adding more
plants, but really check the CO2 and perhaps add a little biomedia in
the filter box.

Regards,
Tom Barr




  #32   Report Post  
Old 01-04-2004, 08:25 PM
Johng
 
Posts: n/a
Default Barley Straw Extract for Green Water Algae ?

The best way to get rid of green water is put a UV unit on your system. This
will clear it up and keep it clear. This only works for green water for
other algaes use fish that eat it, Swords, Mollies, Oto's, Bristle nose,
American flagfish.

--

Cheers John
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/john.gamesby/snakes2.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------
1.1 Python regius 1.2 Elaphe bimaculata (1 Fem. stripped form)
0.1 Eryx miliaris WANTED A MALE
1.1 Eryx jaculus 1.1 Candoia carinata paulsoni
1.1 Pituophus catenifer sayi
0.1 Lampropeltis pyromelana woodini
0.1 Boiga cyanea 0.1 Uromastyx acanthinurus (Yellow phase)
1.2 Rankins Dragons (Pogona henrylawsonii)
0.0.1 Golden Paradise flying snakes(Chrysopelea ornata).
1.0 Golden Tegu Tupinambis teguixin ssp.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------
"Shawn P. Good" wrote in message
...
Tom : Thanks for the detailed response. I appreciate it. I'm 2 days into
my blackout. I'm going to go the full 4 days and see what the effect is.
If I don't have any luck, I'll start trying other things, as you

suggested.
All I know is before I decided to try a planted tank, I had Malawi

cichlids
and just rocks and my water was always crystal clear. Now I have a medium
densely planted community tank. The plants are doing very very well, and
spreading and growing - especially since I upped my lighting from the
standard single 4' bulb of 40 watts to 2 bulbs (6500K) totalling 110

watts.
I also added a small do-it-yourself CO2 injection system (2 litre pop
bottle, yeast, sugar etc) with a diffuser. Probably not as much as I

SHOULD
be putting into a 55-gal tank, but my plants sure perked up. Somewhere
along the way though, the green water decided IT liked the conditions too
and now I can't stand to look at my tank. It used to be a joy. Now it's
ugly and a chore. I don't think I have too many fish. I have 5 zebra
danios, 8 rasboros, 4 platys, 1 black molly, 6 red minor tetras, 5 black
tetras, and 2 very small plecos.

My water conditions are always checking out and seemed balanced.

I don't know where the h*ll it came from !

Shawn



" wrote in message
om...
"Shawn P. Good" wrote in message

I'm crossing my fingers .....

Shawn (Original Poster on the Barely Straw Extract)


Shawn, you will not beat GW in high light tank with nutrients and
often blackouts will not work as they often a week later come back.

The best method is mechanical filtration and/or UV sterilizers which
make quick work of GW in your case. Mild cases, less light, etc, water
changes, various algae snake oils will often work. But using PC lights
etc over 2.5w, generally the GW will stay for months or more.

You can use a diatom filter, or a cheap 9 3/4" filter cartiage from
Home depot, put a 5 micron pleated filter in there and run it for a
day or two with the filter outflow etc or a powerhead.

That's only about 20$ and makes a good water polisher.

GW is induced clearly by anything that influences the NH4 loading
rate.
Plants that are doing well will remove all of it before algae really
have a chance to get at it. When enough NH4 is present + high light,
the algae bloom.
Once they have bloomed, you cannot get rid of them without physical
removal, their nutrients needs are far beyond your test and even the
best labs in the USA's capability resolution, less than 2-4ppb PO4.
Yes, part's per _billion_.
There are not aquatic plants that can survive with that little PO4.
They also can use dissoloved organic PO4, wereas plants cannot in
many/most cases.

You can also use those hagen quick filters.
I'd do that with a blackout unless you have gloss etc, should be the
cheapest.
Borrowing a UV from a friend also works.

Once you get rid of it, make sure you do not slow the plant's uptake
of NH4 etc.

Adding too many fish will cause an algae for this precise reason, it
has nothing to do with PO4 and everything to do with NH4.

I can add 2ppm of PO4, I never can/could induce GW.
I went to 2ppm of PO4 and 75ppm of NO3 at 4 w/gal at a 16" depth and
lots of traces.

Later a small amount of NH4 was added and within 12 to 30 hours a
green water bloom. UV the tank, and repeated this several times.
Then tried adding progressively more and more fish/shrimp till an
algae bloom occured.

If you think PO4 causes algae, and removing it will help the plants,
you need to do some research on your own and also look up in the
literature. There's plenty of research out there but be careful to
apply the specific reference to your question that you are asking and
want to know about.
Marine algae or a plantless lake in Canada are not like a shallow
eutropic plant filled lake in the tropics. If you even see a plant
fill shallow lake, even if the nutrient levels are high or low, if you
add PO4 etc, the lakes remain gin clear.

Most folks that have issues with algae, often have problems with
dosing in general, often have trouble with CO2 mainly or NO3 or both.

You cannot say PO4 causes algae unless you make it your dependent
variable.
Other wise CO2/NO3 etc limitation is causing the problem and not high
PO4.

Until folks figure that out, that make incorrect assumptions about
algae and plants.

Other methods to deal with GW: Daphnia, copper sulfate,
blackout(generally takes 5 days)
If after the GW is gone and it comes back again, try adding more
plants, but really check the CO2 and perhaps add a little biomedia in
the filter box.

Regards,
Tom Barr





  #33   Report Post  
Old 01-04-2004, 08:25 PM
Johng
 
Posts: n/a
Default Barley Straw Extract for Green Water Algae ?

The best way to get rid of green water is put a UV unit on your system. This
will clear it up and keep it clear. This only works for green water for
other algaes use fish that eat it, Swords, Mollies, Oto's, Bristle nose,
American flagfish.

--

Cheers John
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/john.gamesby/snakes2.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------
1.1 Python regius 1.2 Elaphe bimaculata (1 Fem. stripped form)
0.1 Eryx miliaris WANTED A MALE
1.1 Eryx jaculus 1.1 Candoia carinata paulsoni
1.1 Pituophus catenifer sayi
0.1 Lampropeltis pyromelana woodini
0.1 Boiga cyanea 0.1 Uromastyx acanthinurus (Yellow phase)
1.2 Rankins Dragons (Pogona henrylawsonii)
0.0.1 Golden Paradise flying snakes(Chrysopelea ornata).
1.0 Golden Tegu Tupinambis teguixin ssp.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------
"Shawn P. Good" wrote in message
...
Tom : Thanks for the detailed response. I appreciate it. I'm 2 days into
my blackout. I'm going to go the full 4 days and see what the effect is.
If I don't have any luck, I'll start trying other things, as you

suggested.
All I know is before I decided to try a planted tank, I had Malawi

cichlids
and just rocks and my water was always crystal clear. Now I have a medium
densely planted community tank. The plants are doing very very well, and
spreading and growing - especially since I upped my lighting from the
standard single 4' bulb of 40 watts to 2 bulbs (6500K) totalling 110

watts.
I also added a small do-it-yourself CO2 injection system (2 litre pop
bottle, yeast, sugar etc) with a diffuser. Probably not as much as I

SHOULD
be putting into a 55-gal tank, but my plants sure perked up. Somewhere
along the way though, the green water decided IT liked the conditions too
and now I can't stand to look at my tank. It used to be a joy. Now it's
ugly and a chore. I don't think I have too many fish. I have 5 zebra
danios, 8 rasboros, 4 platys, 1 black molly, 6 red minor tetras, 5 black
tetras, and 2 very small plecos.

My water conditions are always checking out and seemed balanced.

I don't know where the h*ll it came from !

Shawn



" wrote in message
om...
"Shawn P. Good" wrote in message

I'm crossing my fingers .....

Shawn (Original Poster on the Barely Straw Extract)


Shawn, you will not beat GW in high light tank with nutrients and
often blackouts will not work as they often a week later come back.

The best method is mechanical filtration and/or UV sterilizers which
make quick work of GW in your case. Mild cases, less light, etc, water
changes, various algae snake oils will often work. But using PC lights
etc over 2.5w, generally the GW will stay for months or more.

You can use a diatom filter, or a cheap 9 3/4" filter cartiage from
Home depot, put a 5 micron pleated filter in there and run it for a
day or two with the filter outflow etc or a powerhead.

That's only about 20$ and makes a good water polisher.

GW is induced clearly by anything that influences the NH4 loading
rate.
Plants that are doing well will remove all of it before algae really
have a chance to get at it. When enough NH4 is present + high light,
the algae bloom.
Once they have bloomed, you cannot get rid of them without physical
removal, their nutrients needs are far beyond your test and even the
best labs in the USA's capability resolution, less than 2-4ppb PO4.
Yes, part's per _billion_.
There are not aquatic plants that can survive with that little PO4.
They also can use dissoloved organic PO4, wereas plants cannot in
many/most cases.

You can also use those hagen quick filters.
I'd do that with a blackout unless you have gloss etc, should be the
cheapest.
Borrowing a UV from a friend also works.

Once you get rid of it, make sure you do not slow the plant's uptake
of NH4 etc.

Adding too many fish will cause an algae for this precise reason, it
has nothing to do with PO4 and everything to do with NH4.

I can add 2ppm of PO4, I never can/could induce GW.
I went to 2ppm of PO4 and 75ppm of NO3 at 4 w/gal at a 16" depth and
lots of traces.

Later a small amount of NH4 was added and within 12 to 30 hours a
green water bloom. UV the tank, and repeated this several times.
Then tried adding progressively more and more fish/shrimp till an
algae bloom occured.

If you think PO4 causes algae, and removing it will help the plants,
you need to do some research on your own and also look up in the
literature. There's plenty of research out there but be careful to
apply the specific reference to your question that you are asking and
want to know about.
Marine algae or a plantless lake in Canada are not like a shallow
eutropic plant filled lake in the tropics. If you even see a plant
fill shallow lake, even if the nutrient levels are high or low, if you
add PO4 etc, the lakes remain gin clear.

Most folks that have issues with algae, often have problems with
dosing in general, often have trouble with CO2 mainly or NO3 or both.

You cannot say PO4 causes algae unless you make it your dependent
variable.
Other wise CO2/NO3 etc limitation is causing the problem and not high
PO4.

Until folks figure that out, that make incorrect assumptions about
algae and plants.

Other methods to deal with GW: Daphnia, copper sulfate,
blackout(generally takes 5 days)
If after the GW is gone and it comes back again, try adding more
plants, but really check the CO2 and perhaps add a little biomedia in
the filter box.

Regards,
Tom Barr





  #34   Report Post  
Old 06-04-2004, 09:32 PM
Aardvark G. Bandersnatch, CPE, RCA, IBM, LSMFT
 
Posts: n/a
Default Barley Straw Extract for Green Water Algae ?


"Shawn P. Good" wrote in message
...

I upped my lighting from the
standard single 4' bulb of 40 watts to 2 bulbs (6500K) totalling 110

watts.
I also added a small do-it-yourself CO2 injection system



Hmmmmmm. Do we have a couple of clues jumping up and down screaming, "Look
Here! Look Here! Look Here!" or what?



  #35   Report Post  
Old 06-04-2004, 09:32 PM
Aardvark G. Bandersnatch, CPE, RCA, IBM, LSMFT
 
Posts: n/a
Default Barley Straw Extract for Green Water Algae ?


"Shawn P. Good" wrote in message
...

I upped my lighting from the
standard single 4' bulb of 40 watts to 2 bulbs (6500K) totalling 110

watts.
I also added a small do-it-yourself CO2 injection system



Hmmmmmm. Do we have a couple of clues jumping up and down screaming, "Look
Here! Look Here! Look Here!" or what?





  #36   Report Post  
Old 06-04-2004, 09:33 PM
Shawn
 
Posts: n/a
Default Barley Straw Extract for Green Water Algae ?

So what are you saying. That everyone who has high lighting and CO2 for
plants also has green water ?


"Aardvark G. Bandersnatch, CPE, RCA, IBM, LSMFT"
wrote in message news:[email protected]_s02...

"Shawn P. Good" wrote in message
...

I upped my lighting from the
standard single 4' bulb of 40 watts to 2 bulbs (6500K) totalling 110

watts.
I also added a small do-it-yourself CO2 injection system



Hmmmmmm. Do we have a couple of clues jumping up and down screaming, "Look
Here! Look Here! Look Here!" or what?





  #37   Report Post  
Old 06-04-2004, 09:33 PM
Shawn
 
Posts: n/a
Default Barley Straw Extract for Green Water Algae ?

So what are you saying. That everyone who has high lighting and CO2 for
plants also has green water ?


"Aardvark G. Bandersnatch, CPE, RCA, IBM, LSMFT"
wrote in message news:[email protected]_s02...

"Shawn P. Good" wrote in message
...

I upped my lighting from the
standard single 4' bulb of 40 watts to 2 bulbs (6500K) totalling 110

watts.
I also added a small do-it-yourself CO2 injection system



Hmmmmmm. Do we have a couple of clues jumping up and down screaming, "Look
Here! Look Here! Look Here!" or what?





  #38   Report Post  
Old 06-04-2004, 09:34 PM
Aardvark G. Bandersnatch, CPE, RCA, IBM, LSMFT
 
Posts: n/a
Default Barley Straw Extract for Green Water Algae ?


"Shawn P. Good" wrote in message
...

I upped my lighting from the
standard single 4' bulb of 40 watts to 2 bulbs (6500K) totalling 110

watts.
I also added a small do-it-yourself CO2 injection system



Hmmmmmm. Do we have a couple of clues jumping up and down screaming, "Look
Here! Look Here! Look Here!" or what?



  #39   Report Post  
Old 06-04-2004, 09:34 PM
Shawn
 
Posts: n/a
Default Barley Straw Extract for Green Water Algae ?

So what are you saying. That everyone who has high lighting and CO2 for
plants also has green water ?


"Aardvark G. Bandersnatch, CPE, RCA, IBM, LSMFT"
wrote in message news:[email protected]_s02...

"Shawn P. Good" wrote in message
...

I upped my lighting from the
standard single 4' bulb of 40 watts to 2 bulbs (6500K) totalling 110

watts.
I also added a small do-it-yourself CO2 injection system



Hmmmmmm. Do we have a couple of clues jumping up and down screaming, "Look
Here! Look Here! Look Here!" or what?





  #40   Report Post  
Old 06-04-2004, 09:34 PM
Velvet
 
Posts: n/a
Default Barley Straw Extract for Green Water Algae ?

Aardvark G. Bandersnatch, CPE, RCA, IBM, LSMFT wrote:
"Shawn P. Good" wrote in message
...


I upped my lighting from the
standard single 4' bulb of 40 watts to 2 bulbs (6500K) totalling 110


watts.

I also added a small do-it-yourself CO2 injection system




Hmmmmmm. Do we have a couple of clues jumping up and down screaming, "Look
Here! Look Here! Look Here!" or what?




I went from battling with the BGA and other assorted algaes to an algae
free tank. I added real plants (lots of), a little semi-diy kit (tiny
compressed cannister), and upped the lighting (now 3x3' flourescents -
can't recall the wattage on a 36" tank).

No green water. So, it could be the cause, but it also shouldn't be the
cause, iyswim.

Velvet


  #41   Report Post  
Old 06-04-2004, 09:34 PM
Velvet
 
Posts: n/a
Default Barley Straw Extract for Green Water Algae ?

Aardvark G. Bandersnatch, CPE, RCA, IBM, LSMFT wrote:
"Shawn P. Good" wrote in message
...


I upped my lighting from the
standard single 4' bulb of 40 watts to 2 bulbs (6500K) totalling 110


watts.

I also added a small do-it-yourself CO2 injection system




Hmmmmmm. Do we have a couple of clues jumping up and down screaming, "Look
Here! Look Here! Look Here!" or what?




I went from battling with the BGA and other assorted algaes to an algae
free tank. I added real plants (lots of), a little semi-diy kit (tiny
compressed cannister), and upped the lighting (now 3x3' flourescents -
can't recall the wattage on a 36" tank).

No green water. So, it could be the cause, but it also shouldn't be the
cause, iyswim.

Velvet
  #42   Report Post  
Old 06-04-2004, 09:35 PM
Velvet
 
Posts: n/a
Default Barley Straw Extract for Green Water Algae ?

Aardvark G. Bandersnatch, CPE, RCA, IBM, LSMFT wrote:
"Shawn P. Good" wrote in message
...


I upped my lighting from the
standard single 4' bulb of 40 watts to 2 bulbs (6500K) totalling 110


watts.

I also added a small do-it-yourself CO2 injection system




Hmmmmmm. Do we have a couple of clues jumping up and down screaming, "Look
Here! Look Here! Look Here!" or what?




I went from battling with the BGA and other assorted algaes to an algae
free tank. I added real plants (lots of), a little semi-diy kit (tiny
compressed cannister), and upped the lighting (now 3x3' flourescents -
can't recall the wattage on a 36" tank).

No green water. So, it could be the cause, but it also shouldn't be the
cause, iyswim.

Velvet


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