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Co2 Regulator

Remember that most fish need oxygen
and at night the plants don't give off oxygen
and at night the plants don't need Co2 as
plants only use the Co2 during the day.
so please, be kind and turn off your Co2 at night.

--
Sir Douglas Cook

http://www.greyspace.bravehostNOSPAM.com/
Remove "NOSPAM" for correct address
London Ontario Canada
Aquarium Maintenance Man for Hire


"Robert H" wrote in message
m...
Join the WET Thumb Forums and have a chance at a free C02 regulator

http://aquabotanicwetthumb.infopop.cc/eve

|| Co2 Regulator
||
|| Remember that most fish need oxygen
|| and at night the plants don't give off oxygen
|| and at night the plants don't need Co2 as
|| plants only use the Co2 during the day.
|| so please, be kind and turn off your Co2 at night.
||
|| --
|| Sir Douglas Cook

You can put down the crack pipe anytime.. no need to turn of Co2 at night,
wive's tale... photosynthesis takes care of oxygen release, and many years
now fish have been living thru the night with Co2...

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!! ==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø


is that better??

Oh,,, you called me a name! That was nice was it... eh.

Read on,,,

First!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Co2 pump are so easy to make why would anyone pay for one???????????????
Simply take a pop bottle and drill a hole in the cap to fit a
air line... and glue air line connector to the cap and attach a airline to
the connector. And your done.
Fill with 1/4 sugar, 1 tsp yeast, and Optionally 1 tsp baking soda to slow
the process. Add water up to 2/3 of the bottle and place the FREE Co2 PUMP
in a place where it can't be knocked over and pump liquid waste directly
into your aquarium. Put the other end of the airline hose through and under
your undergravel filter where there is lots of surface area for the gas to
exchange.

Second!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It all depends on how thoughtful you are to your fish.
Please, Please Read Tropical Fishlopaedia
A Complete Guide to Fish Care
Author Mary Bailey and Peter Burgress.
This book states,,, On page98,,, heading
Factors Affecting oxygen content of Water

Quoted from the book:
"C02 injection. In recent years some aquarists have used this process,
whereby carbon dioxide is added (from a gas cylinder) to the aquarium, in
order to promote plant growth. CO2 injection must be used with considerable
care, if at all. Remember that high CO2 levels may reduce the oxygen uptake
of the water and lead to a risk of hypoxia in the fish, especially if the
aquarium is crowded and /or the fish include species with a high oxygen
requirement. Some aquarists try to get round this problem by using
additional aeration, but, while this will certainly increase the oxygen
content and benefit the fish, it will at the same time drive off the carbon
dioxide, making the CO2 injection a rather pointless exercise! CO2 injection
should always be turned off at night - When the plants do not need it."

Third!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you for Requesting me to Explain Fully.
--
Sir Douglas Cook

http://www.greyspace.bravehostN0SPAM.com/
Remove "NOSPAM" for correct address
London Ontario Canada
Aquarium Maintenance Man for Hire


"RedForeman ©®" wrote in message
...
|| Co2 Regulator
||
|| Remember that most fish need oxygen
|| and at night the plants don't give off oxygen
|| and at night the plants don't need Co2 as
|| plants only use the Co2 during the day.
|| so please, be kind and turn off your Co2 at night.
||
|| --
|| Sir Douglas Cook

You can put down the crack pipe anytime.. no need to turn of Co2 at night,
wive's tale... photosynthesis takes care of oxygen release, and many years
now fish have been living thru the night with Co2...

--
RedForeman ©® future fabricator and creator of a ratbike
streetfighter!!! ==========================
2003 TRX450ES
1992 TRX-350 XX (For Sale)
'98 Tacoma Ext Cab 4X4 Lifted....
==========================
ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸¸,ø¤° `°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø


is that better??

Sir Douglas Cook wrote:


Quoted from the book:
"C02 injection. In recent years some aquarists have used this process,
whereby carbon dioxide is added (from a gas cylinder) to the aquarium, in
order to promote plant growth. CO2 injection must be used with considerable
care, if at all. Remember that high CO2 levels may reduce the oxygen uptake
of the water and lead to a risk of hypoxia in the fish, especially if the
aquarium is crowded and /or the fish include species with a high oxygen
requirement. Some aquarists try to get round this problem by using
additional aeration, but, while this will certainly increase the oxygen
content and benefit the fish, it will at the same time drive off the carbon
dioxide, making the CO2 injection a rather pointless exercise! CO2 injection
should always be turned off at night - When the plants do not need it."

While I do not wish to enter into a debate with anyone
I think there is another important factor that has been missed
CO2 injection reduces ph
by turning on and off the injection system you may be causing ph swings
that could greatly harm your fish


Kris

And you can't believe everything you read because it was written in a book.

So Sir, that is my opinion.

--
Bob Alston

bobalston9 AT aol DOT com
"Kris" wrote in message
news:lcyqc.19952$0e6.13211@clgrps13...
Sir Douglas Cook wrote:


Quoted from the book:
"C02 injection. In recent years some aquarists have used this process,
whereby carbon dioxide is added (from a gas cylinder) to the aquarium,
in
order to promote plant growth. CO2 injection must be used with
considerable
care, if at all. Remember that high CO2 levels may reduce the oxygen
uptake
of the water and lead to a risk of hypoxia in the fish, especially if
the
aquarium is crowded and /or the fish include species with a high oxygen
requirement. Some aquarists try to get round this problem by using
additional aeration, but, while this will certainly increase the oxygen
content and benefit the fish, it will at the same time drive off the
carbon
dioxide, making the CO2 injection a rather pointless exercise! CO2
injection
should always be turned off at night - When the plants do not need it."

While I do not wish to enter into a debate with anyone
I think there is another important factor that has been missed
CO2 injection reduces ph
by turning on and off the injection system you may be causing ph swings
that could greatly harm your fish


Kris


---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.688 / Virus Database: 449 - Release Date: 5/18/2004

On Tue, 18 May 2004 18:38:02 -0700, "Sir Douglas Cook"
wrote:

Co2 pump are so easy to make why would anyone pay for one???????????????

Yeast CO2 systems do provide as stable a source of CO2. Additionally,
they require much more time and effort. With a compressed gas CO2
system, you can set it, and not touch it for a year or more. The
price of yeast and sugar isn't free. I pay $10.00 for over a year
worth of CO2 for my 75g tank. To do that with a yeast system would
require several 2L bottles, and constant work mixing and changing
them.

your undergravel filter where there is lots of surface area for the gas to
exchange.

The buildup of CO2 in the UGF would probably negatively effect the
bacteria that are critical for proper UGF operation.

care, if at all. Remember that high CO2 levels may reduce the oxygen uptake
of the water and lead to a risk of hypoxia in the fish, especially if the

Completely false at levels encountered in our aquariums. CO2 levels
elevated to the levels used for planted aquaria (40ppm max) will not
prevent any absorption of O2.

Additionally, when used correctly in a planted aquarium, with high
lighting, lots of plants, and CO2 injection, the plants photosynthesis
rate will be high enough to drive the O2 level over 100% during the
day. This is a cause of the "pearling" often seen in a healthy
planted tank. O2 bubbles are released into the water, because the
water cannot absorb any more.

In regular non-planted aquarium, using airstones or powerheads for
water movement/aeration, typical O2 levels are around 75%. In a
health CO2 injected planted tank, the O2 levels are over 100% during
the day, and during the night, only fall to 80% or so.

dioxide, making the CO2 injection a rather pointless exercise! CO2 injection
should always be turned off at night - When the plants do not need it."

Tom Barr recently published some university studies that showed that
algae is better able to handle fluxuating CO2 levels better than
higher plants. So by constantly having the CO2 level rise and fall,
you are giving the algae a slight advantage over the plants.

The only possible reason I see to turn off CO2 at night is to save the
cost of the CO2. But when I pay just $10.00 for more than a year, I
can't see adding the cost of a solenoid and timer to switch the CO2 on
and off. It would take decades to make up the cost.


Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

I really enjoyed visiting your website http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua
although I would like to chatt about the difference between beautiful
planted aquariums and beautiful planted aquariums with a CO2 pump
and Fishkeeping.

"Chuck Gadd" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 18 May 2004 18:38:02 -0700, "Sir Douglas Cook"
wrote:

Co2 pump are so easy to make why would anyone pay for one???????????????

Yeast CO2 systems do provide as stable a source of CO2. Additionally,
they require much more time and effort. With a compressed gas CO2
system, you can set it, and not touch it for a year or more. The
price of yeast and sugar isn't free. I pay $10.00 for over a year
worth of CO2 for my 75g tank. To do that with a yeast system would
require several 2L bottles, and constant work mixing and changing
them.

I am just suggesting that just one person out there might just want
to try this "FREE" CO2 PUMP before they fork out the cash.

Since I add baking soda one 2L bottle will last over a month,
and after all my homemade CO2 filter is simple to make and
did I say "FREE", "FREE", "FREE".
The nice part about it is most of my friends that have CO2 pumps
said to me that "If only they tried my method first they wouldn't have
bought a C02 pump" because they care about their fish primarily.

But, since they own it they have setup another tank with the CO2
which is ONLY used for plants. Now that make sense.

You won't read anywhere that MORE CO2 is needed BY THE FISH
in an aquarium!!!!!!


your undergravel filter where there is lots of surface area for the gas
to
exchange.

The buildup of CO2 in the UGF would probably negatively effect the
bacteria that are critical for proper UGF operation.

That's what they tell you, although it does work well with UGF.
Keep in mind that if you mix CO2 in the upper part of the tank
you are in fact drawing the waste and the CO2 through the
UGF (Under Gravel Filter), Right.
And since I mix the CO2 after the UGF as the water flow in downward
(most/more) of the CO2 is used by the plants before it gets to the UGF.

It is funny to me, that the reason that I put the CO2 after the
UGF is the same reason that you dispute it!

Please read on.


care, if at all. Remember that high CO2 levels may reduce the oxygen
uptake
of the water and lead to a risk of hypoxia in the fish, especially if the

Completely false at levels encountered in our aquariums. CO2 levels
elevated to the levels used for planted aquaria (40ppm max) will not
prevent any absorption of O2.

Wrong, it make sense that 40ppm could be oxygen which is replaced
with CO2. As stated above.


Additionally, when used correctly in a planted aquarium, with high
lighting, lots of plants, and CO2 injection, the plants photosynthesis
rate will be high enough to drive the O2 level over 100% during the
day. This is a cause of the "pearling" often seen in a healthy
planted tank. O2 bubbles are released into the water, because the
water cannot absorb any more.

Cannot absorb any more oxygen,,, Thank you for pointing that out.
Your right again, 40ppm is the CO2 that has attached itself to the
water making it impossible for the Water to accept the 40ppm of the
new oxygen.


In regular non-planted aquarium, using airstones or powerheads for
water movement/aeration, typical O2 levels are around 75%. In a
health CO2 injected planted tank, the O2 levels are over 100% during
the day, and during the night, only fall to 80% or so.


Are you telling me that the plant give off so much oxygen that your water
is 100%, that's like pure H2O, Wow, that's sounds impressive!

I better tell my science teacher, that a planted aquarium with a
CO2 pump using the same hardware and equipment has more Oxygen at night!
He would be so proud of me. ;-)

It is not only my opinion but it is the opinion of
Mary Bailey and Peter Burgess as I QUOTED their book
Tropical Fishlopaedia
Mary Bailey has kept tropical fish for more than 25 years, and is known
INTERNATIONALLY AS AN EXPERT on the cichlid family. She has
written several fishkeeping books, and the English editor of
AQUA GEOGRAPHIA MAGAZINE. She also contributor to
and CO-EDITOR of, the cichlids yearbook series.

And

you my friend are disputing with

A

Dr. Peter Burgess BSc MSc Mphil PhD,

Is a "FISH HEALTH SCIENTIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!",
with more than 25 years' experience as an aquarist. An
author of numerous articles and scientific papers on fishkeeping,
he is editor of the
INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL AQUARIUM SCIENCES AND CONSERVATION!
A visiting lecturer in aquarium sciences, he is also an INTERNATIONAL
consultant to the aquarium fish industry.

Can you tell me about your background?
I can tell your information didn't come directly off of the CO2 Pumps box.
But, for the listeners,,, Let them know strong your knowledge is.


dioxide, making the CO2 injection a rather pointless exercise! CO2
injection
should always be turned off at night - When the plants do not need it."

Tom Barr recently published some university studies that showed that
algae is better able to handle fluxuating CO2 levels better than
higher plants. So by constantly having the CO2 level rise and fall,
you are giving the algae a slight advantage over the plants.

Ok, great Tom has confirmed that even plants have a hard time with
fluxuating CO2.

And you want to put that into your FISH tank!


The only possible reason I see to turn off CO2 at night is to save the
cost of the CO2. But when I pay just $10.00 for more than a year, I
can't see adding the cost of a solenoid and timer to switch the CO2 on
and off. It would take decades to make up the cost.

Or simply keep your CO2 pump with your "Plants Only tank"

I must say I have visited http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua and
I was very, very impressed by your web site, you are a person that
I do respect. Your planted tanks and catfish information was overwhelming.
I will visit your page again.

I would like to add your link to my page for those in search of
the perfect aquarium.



Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

Everywhere I go I find another reason not to add
an CO2 pump to my aquarium tank.
http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plant.../msg00212.html

--
Sir Douglas Cook

http://www.greyspace.bravehostNOSPAM.com/
Remove "NOSPAM" for correct address
London Ontario Canada
Aquarium Maintenance Man for Hire


"Sir Douglas Cook" wrote in message
. ..
I really enjoyed visiting your website http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua
although I would like to chatt about the difference between beautiful
planted aquariums and beautiful planted aquariums with a CO2 pump
and Fishkeeping.

"Chuck Gadd" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 18 May 2004 18:38:02 -0700, "Sir Douglas Cook"
wrote:

Co2 pump are so easy to make why would anyone pay for
one???????????????

Yeast CO2 systems do provide as stable a source of CO2. Additionally,
they require much more time and effort. With a compressed gas CO2
system, you can set it, and not touch it for a year or more. The
price of yeast and sugar isn't free. I pay $10.00 for over a year
worth of CO2 for my 75g tank. To do that with a yeast system would
require several 2L bottles, and constant work mixing and changing
them.

I am just suggesting that just one person out there might just want
to try this "FREE" CO2 PUMP before they fork out the cash.

Since I add baking soda one 2L bottle will last over a month,
and after all my homemade CO2 filter is simple to make and
did I say "FREE", "FREE", "FREE".
The nice part about it is most of my friends that have CO2 pumps
said to me that "If only they tried my method first they wouldn't have
bought a C02 pump" because they care about their fish primarily.

But, since they own it they have setup another tank with the CO2
which is ONLY used for plants. Now that make sense.

You won't read anywhere that MORE CO2 is needed BY THE FISH
in an aquarium!!!!!!


your undergravel filter where there is lots of surface area for the gas
to
exchange.

The buildup of CO2 in the UGF would probably negatively effect the
bacteria that are critical for proper UGF operation.

That's what they tell you, although it does work well with UGF.
Keep in mind that if you mix CO2 in the upper part of the tank
you are in fact drawing the waste and the CO2 through the
UGF (Under Gravel Filter), Right.
And since I mix the CO2 after the UGF as the water flow in downward
(most/more) of the CO2 is used by the plants before it gets to the UGF.

It is funny to me, that the reason that I put the CO2 after the
UGF is the same reason that you dispute it!

Please read on.


care, if at all. Remember that high CO2 levels may reduce the oxygen
uptake
of the water and lead to a risk of hypoxia in the fish, especially if
the

Completely false at levels encountered in our aquariums. CO2 levels
elevated to the levels used for planted aquaria (40ppm max) will not
prevent any absorption of O2.

Wrong, it make sense that 40ppm could be oxygen which is replaced
with CO2. As stated above.


Additionally, when used correctly in a planted aquarium, with high
lighting, lots of plants, and CO2 injection, the plants photosynthesis
rate will be high enough to drive the O2 level over 100% during the
day. This is a cause of the "pearling" often seen in a healthy
planted tank. O2 bubbles are released into the water, because the
water cannot absorb any more.

Cannot absorb any more oxygen,,, Thank you for pointing that out.
Your right again, 40ppm is the CO2 that has attached itself to the
water making it impossible for the Water to accept the 40ppm of the
new oxygen.


In regular non-planted aquarium, using airstones or powerheads for
water movement/aeration, typical O2 levels are around 75%. In a
health CO2 injected planted tank, the O2 levels are over 100% during
the day, and during the night, only fall to 80% or so.


Are you telling me that the plant give off so much oxygen that your water
is 100%, that's like pure H2O, Wow, that's sounds impressive!

I better tell my science teacher, that a planted aquarium with a
CO2 pump using the same hardware and equipment has more Oxygen at night!
He would be so proud of me. ;-)

It is not only my opinion but it is the opinion of
Mary Bailey and Peter Burgess as I QUOTED their book
Tropical Fishlopaedia
Mary Bailey has kept tropical fish for more than 25 years, and is known
INTERNATIONALLY AS AN EXPERT on the cichlid family. She has
written several fishkeeping books, and the English editor of
AQUA GEOGRAPHIA MAGAZINE. She also contributor to
and CO-EDITOR of, the cichlids yearbook series.

And

you my friend are disputing with

A

Dr. Peter Burgess BSc MSc Mphil PhD,

Is a "FISH HEALTH SCIENTIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!",
with more than 25 years' experience as an aquarist. An
author of numerous articles and scientific papers on fishkeeping,
he is editor of the
INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL AQUARIUM SCIENCES AND CONSERVATION!
A visiting lecturer in aquarium sciences, he is also an INTERNATIONAL
consultant to the aquarium fish industry.

Can you tell me about your background?
I can tell your information didn't come directly off of the CO2 Pumps box.
But, for the listeners,,, Let them know strong your knowledge is.


dioxide, making the CO2 injection a rather pointless exercise! CO2
injection
should always be turned off at night - When the plants do not need it."

Tom Barr recently published some university studies that showed that
algae is better able to handle fluxuating CO2 levels better than
higher plants. So by constantly having the CO2 level rise and fall,
you are giving the algae a slight advantage over the plants.

Ok, great Tom has confirmed that even plants have a hard time with
fluxuating CO2.

And you want to put that into your FISH tank!


The only possible reason I see to turn off CO2 at night is to save the
cost of the CO2. But when I pay just $10.00 for more than a year, I
can't see adding the cost of a solenoid and timer to switch the CO2 on
and off. It would take decades to make up the cost.

Or simply keep your CO2 pump with your "Plants Only tank"

I must say I have visited http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua and
I was very, very impressed by your web site, you are a person that
I do respect. Your planted tanks and catfish information was overwhelming.
I will visit your page again.

I would like to add your link to my page for those in search of
the perfect aquarium.



Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

On Wed, 19 May, Sir Douglas Cook wrote:

"Chuck Gadd" wrote in message
news

Completely false at levels encountered in our aquariums. CO2 levels
elevated to the levels used for planted aquaria (40ppm max) will not
prevent any absorption of O2.

Wrong, it make sense that 40ppm could be oxygen which is replaced
with CO2. As stated above.

But that's irrelevant to the point.

It matters not one jot whether or not "40ppm could be oxygen" if the
oxygen level is able to reach higher levels than the fish require
whether or not there's 40ppm CO2.

That is, suppose your fish want 100 units of oxygen.
Suppose that without CO2, your water can hold 900 units oxygen.
Suppose with CO2 the water can 'only' hold 897 units oxygen.

Now, will the fish be unhappy because there are 3 units that "could be
oxygen"?

Besides which, you should test some tanks. When I've done so, the
densely planted tanks with CO2 injection have had significantly higher
oxygen than the largely unplanted tanks. I think you're assuming that
all water is always fully saturated with gas, and that simply isn't
true.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

In my experience, unless you are keeping a low KH there is really no
need to turn CO2 off at night. In most tanks, the biggest loss of CO2
is not presented by the plants, it's from gas exchange, and this
doesn't stop at night. Therefore the impact the plants have on CO2
levels during the day is really not as big as some may think it is.
Obviously if you have no surface agitation you may see a totally
different picture, but then you would likely have oxygen problems
during the night regardless of CO2 injection. Fish load will also have
an impact on oxygen levels during the night and if gas exchange is
insufficient you may run into problems if overstocked. Personally I
never have, I used to turn off CO2 at night when I kept a very low KH,
and a PH controller would be wonderful in those situations, but with a
KH of around 3-4 or higher you shouldn't have any problems with PH
swings during the night from CO2.

If there's one thing I've learnied that is to not trust everything you
read in books or hear from others, try it out for yourself and you
will have a better idea, and even then, your conclusions won't work
for every tank.

Now having said that, what does this have to do with a CO2 regulator?
;-)

Regards
Giancarlo Podio

"Sir Douglas Cook" wrote in message ...
....

I am just suggesting that just one person out there might just want
to try this "FREE" CO2 PUMP before they fork out the cash.

Since I add baking soda one 2L bottle will last over a month,
and after all my homemade CO2 filter is simple to make and
did I say "FREE", "FREE", "FREE".
The nice part about it is most of my friends that have CO2 pumps
said to me that "If only they tried my method first they wouldn't have
bought a C02 pump" because they care about their fish primarily.

I think you will find that many more than one person have used DIY CO2
methods in the past and many more are still using them today. I for
one used it for the best part of 7 years and while it's relatively
cheap, it unfortunately does not give a steady CO2 output like a
pressurized CO2 setup provides. Seeing that fluctuations seem to be
your biggest concern, you will find that a pressurized setup will give
you more stable levels in the best interest of your fish. And of
course, it's very nice to simply forget about it for a year until it
needs to be filled again. As with the rest of your arguments, I think
someone may be leading you the wrong way personally, regardless of
their education or scientific status. While I'm sure it's not
intentional, it is close minded of them. There are limits in all
things and I believe they are looking at it from one extreme only, CO2
in planted tanks with fish is just fine if kept in reasonable
concentrations (15-30ppm in general). I think if you mention this to
these people they will agree. If not, well.... I'm sorry but they are
mistaken.

If you are interested, here's an article on DIY CO2 that I posted a
little while ago, it's nothing new and there are many ways of doing
it.

http://www.gpodio.com/diy_co2.asp

And if you want to dig even further or perhaps print something out for
your friends to look over:

http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html

Now I'm not sure if you were just stating a point or if your friends
really do wish they were doing the DIY CO2 thing rather than
pressurized, if so, I will buy their CO2 equipment off them and even
throw in a couple empty soda bottles to get them started ;-)

Trust me, we are not all crazy here! :-)

Regards
Giancarlo Podio
www.gpodio.com

Not sure what the term "pump" is intended to mean? Is it intended to mean
the biological process of yeast converting sugar into alcohol and co2? This
does create quite a bit of co2 for a while which can lead to pressure in a
closed container. So a 2 liter plastic bottle tends to spew out the co2 -
thru an airline hose and into planted tanks. I used two bottles for my 55
gallon but had to replace the mixture about every 2-3 weeks.

I, like many others, have used DIY co2 setups, using yeast, and subsequently
graduated to a pressurized co2 system - tank, regulator, needle valve and
reactor - but no "Pump"!. It is much less trouble to maintain. And much
less chance of running out of co2, forgetting to refill the bottle at the
right time, especially if you travel.

Both provide good results on my plants; no adverse impact to my fish unless
the co2 is too much. At night I run an airstone in one tank which is
heavily stocked with fish. I leave the co2 running all the time cause I did
not spend the extra for a solenoid to control it - an extra $30 or so. My
$11 fill of co2 lasts about 8 months.

And I have over 35 years of fish keeping and breeding experience!

--
Bob Alston

bobalston9 AT aol DOT com
"Sir Douglas Cook" wrote in message
. ..
Everywhere I go I find another reason not to add
an CO2 pump to my aquarium tank.
http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plant.../msg00212.html

--
Sir Douglas Cook

http://www.greyspace.bravehostNOSPAM.com/
Remove "NOSPAM" for correct address
London Ontario Canada
Aquarium Maintenance Man for Hire


"Sir Douglas Cook" wrote in message
. ..
I really enjoyed visiting your website http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua
although I would like to chatt about the difference between beautiful
planted aquariums and beautiful planted aquariums with a CO2 pump
and Fishkeeping.

"Chuck Gadd" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 18 May 2004 18:38:02 -0700, "Sir Douglas Cook"
wrote:

Co2 pump are so easy to make why would anyone pay for
one???????????????

Yeast CO2 systems do provide as stable a source of CO2. Additionally,
they require much more time and effort. With a compressed gas CO2
system, you can set it, and not touch it for a year or more. The
price of yeast and sugar isn't free. I pay $10.00 for over a year
worth of CO2 for my 75g tank. To do that with a yeast system would
require several 2L bottles, and constant work mixing and changing
them.

I am just suggesting that just one person out there might just want
to try this "FREE" CO2 PUMP before they fork out the cash.

Since I add baking soda one 2L bottle will last over a month,
and after all my homemade CO2 filter is simple to make and
did I say "FREE", "FREE", "FREE".
The nice part about it is most of my friends that have CO2 pumps
said to me that "If only they tried my method first they wouldn't have
bought a C02 pump" because they care about their fish primarily.

But, since they own it they have setup another tank with the CO2
which is ONLY used for plants. Now that make sense.

You won't read anywhere that MORE CO2 is needed BY THE FISH
in an aquarium!!!!!!


your undergravel filter where there is lots of surface area for the
gas
to
exchange.

The buildup of CO2 in the UGF would probably negatively effect the
bacteria that are critical for proper UGF operation.

That's what they tell you, although it does work well with UGF.
Keep in mind that if you mix CO2 in the upper part of the tank
you are in fact drawing the waste and the CO2 through the
UGF (Under Gravel Filter), Right.
And since I mix the CO2 after the UGF as the water flow in downward
(most/more) of the CO2 is used by the plants before it gets to the UGF.

It is funny to me, that the reason that I put the CO2 after the
UGF is the same reason that you dispute it!

Please read on.


care, if at all. Remember that high CO2 levels may reduce the oxygen
uptake
of the water and lead to a risk of hypoxia in the fish, especially if
the

Completely false at levels encountered in our aquariums. CO2 levels
elevated to the levels used for planted aquaria (40ppm max) will not
prevent any absorption of O2.

Wrong, it make sense that 40ppm could be oxygen which is replaced
with CO2. As stated above.


Additionally, when used correctly in a planted aquarium, with high
lighting, lots of plants, and CO2 injection, the plants photosynthesis
rate will be high enough to drive the O2 level over 100% during the
day. This is a cause of the "pearling" often seen in a healthy
planted tank. O2 bubbles are released into the water, because the
water cannot absorb any more.

Cannot absorb any more oxygen,,, Thank you for pointing that out.
Your right again, 40ppm is the CO2 that has attached itself to the
water making it impossible for the Water to accept the 40ppm of the
new oxygen.


In regular non-planted aquarium, using airstones or powerheads for
water movement/aeration, typical O2 levels are around 75%. In a
health CO2 injected planted tank, the O2 levels are over 100% during
the day, and during the night, only fall to 80% or so.


Are you telling me that the plant give off so much oxygen that your
water
is 100%, that's like pure H2O, Wow, that's sounds impressive!

I better tell my science teacher, that a planted aquarium with a
CO2 pump using the same hardware and equipment has more Oxygen at night!
He would be so proud of me. ;-)

It is not only my opinion but it is the opinion of
Mary Bailey and Peter Burgess as I QUOTED their book
Tropical Fishlopaedia
Mary Bailey has kept tropical fish for more than 25 years, and is known
INTERNATIONALLY AS AN EXPERT on the cichlid family. She has
written several fishkeeping books, and the English editor of
AQUA GEOGRAPHIA MAGAZINE. She also contributor to
and CO-EDITOR of, the cichlids yearbook series.

And

you my friend are disputing with

A

Dr. Peter Burgess BSc MSc Mphil PhD,

Is a "FISH HEALTH SCIENTIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!",
with more than 25 years' experience as an aquarist. An
author of numerous articles and scientific papers on fishkeeping,
he is editor of the
INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL AQUARIUM SCIENCES AND CONSERVATION!
A visiting lecturer in aquarium sciences, he is also an INTERNATIONAL
consultant to the aquarium fish industry.

Can you tell me about your background?
I can tell your information didn't come directly off of the CO2 Pumps
box.
But, for the listeners,,, Let them know strong your knowledge is.


dioxide, making the CO2 injection a rather pointless exercise! CO2
injection
should always be turned off at night - When the plants do not need
it."

Tom Barr recently published some university studies that showed that
algae is better able to handle fluxuating CO2 levels better than
higher plants. So by constantly having the CO2 level rise and fall,
you are giving the algae a slight advantage over the plants.

Ok, great Tom has confirmed that even plants have a hard time with
fluxuating CO2.

And you want to put that into your FISH tank!


The only possible reason I see to turn off CO2 at night is to save the
cost of the CO2. But when I pay just $10.00 for more than a year, I
can't see adding the cost of a solenoid and timer to switch the CO2 on
and off. It would take decades to make up the cost.

Or simply keep your CO2 pump with your "Plants Only tank"

I must say I have visited http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua and
I was very, very impressed by your web site, you are a person that
I do respect. Your planted tanks and catfish information was
overwhelming.
I will visit your page again.

I would like to add your link to my page for those in search of
the perfect aquarium.



Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua






---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.688 / Virus Database: 449 - Release Date: 5/18/2004

Sir Douglas Cook wrote:

I really enjoyed visiting your website http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua
although I would like to chatt about the difference between beautiful
planted aquariums and beautiful planted aquariums with a CO2 pump
and Fishkeeping.

"Chuck Gadd" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 18 May 2004 18:38:02 -0700, "Sir Douglas Cook"
wrote:


Co2 pump are so easy to make why would anyone pay for one???????????????

Yeast CO2 systems do provide as stable a source of CO2. Additionally,
they require much more time and effort. With a compressed gas CO2
system, you can set it, and not touch it for a year or more. The
price of yeast and sugar isn't free. I pay $10.00 for over a year
worth of CO2 for my 75g tank. To do that with a yeast system would
require several 2L bottles, and constant work mixing and changing
them.


I am just suggesting that just one person out there might just want
to try this "FREE" CO2 PUMP before they fork out the cash.

Since I add baking soda one 2L bottle will last over a month,
and after all my homemade CO2 filter is simple to make and
did I say "FREE", "FREE", "FREE".
The nice part about it is most of my friends that have CO2 pumps
said to me that "If only they tried my method first they wouldn't have
bought a C02 pump" because they care about their fish primarily.

But, since they own it they have setup another tank with the CO2
which is ONLY used for plants. Now that make sense.

You won't read anywhere that MORE CO2 is needed BY THE FISH
in an aquarium!!!!!!


your undergravel filter where there is lots of surface area for the gas

to

exchange.

The buildup of CO2 in the UGF would probably negatively effect the
bacteria that are critical for proper UGF operation.


That's what they tell you, although it does work well with UGF.
Keep in mind that if you mix CO2 in the upper part of the tank
you are in fact drawing the waste and the CO2 through the
UGF (Under Gravel Filter), Right.
And since I mix the CO2 after the UGF as the water flow in downward
(most/more) of the CO2 is used by the plants before it gets to the UGF.

It is funny to me, that the reason that I put the CO2 after the
UGF is the same reason that you dispute it!

Please read on.


care, if at all. Remember that high CO2 levels may reduce the oxygen

uptake

of the water and lead to a risk of hypoxia in the fish, especially if the

Completely false at levels encountered in our aquariums. CO2 levels
elevated to the levels used for planted aquaria (40ppm max) will not
prevent any absorption of O2.


Wrong, it make sense that 40ppm could be oxygen which is replaced
with CO2. As stated above.


Additionally, when used correctly in a planted aquarium, with high
lighting, lots of plants, and CO2 injection, the plants photosynthesis
rate will be high enough to drive the O2 level over 100% during the
day. This is a cause of the "pearling" often seen in a healthy
planted tank. O2 bubbles are released into the water, because the
water cannot absorb any more.


Cannot absorb any more oxygen,,, Thank you for pointing that out.
Your right again, 40ppm is the CO2 that has attached itself to the
water making it impossible for the Water to accept the 40ppm of the
new oxygen.


In regular non-planted aquarium, using airstones or powerheads for
water movement/aeration, typical O2 levels are around 75%. In a
health CO2 injected planted tank, the O2 levels are over 100% during
the day, and during the night, only fall to 80% or so.



Are you telling me that the plant give off so much oxygen that your water
is 100%, that's like pure H2O, Wow, that's sounds impressive!

I better tell my science teacher, that a planted aquarium with a
CO2 pump using the same hardware and equipment has more Oxygen at night!
He would be so proud of me. ;-)

It is not only my opinion but it is the opinion of
Mary Bailey and Peter Burgess as I QUOTED their book
Tropical Fishlopaedia
Mary Bailey has kept tropical fish for more than 25 years, and is known
INTERNATIONALLY AS AN EXPERT on the cichlid family. She has
written several fishkeeping books, and the English editor of
AQUA GEOGRAPHIA MAGAZINE. She also contributor to
and CO-EDITOR of, the cichlids yearbook series.

And

you my friend are disputing with

A

Dr. Peter Burgess BSc MSc Mphil PhD,

Is a "FISH HEALTH SCIENTIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!",
with more than 25 years' experience as an aquarist. An
author of numerous articles and scientific papers on fishkeeping,
he is editor of the
INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL AQUARIUM SCIENCES AND CONSERVATION!
A visiting lecturer in aquarium sciences, he is also an INTERNATIONAL
consultant to the aquarium fish industry.

Can you tell me about your background?
I can tell your information didn't come directly off of the CO2 Pumps box.
But, for the listeners,,, Let them know strong your knowledge is.



dioxide, making the CO2 injection a rather pointless exercise! CO2

injection

should always be turned off at night - When the plants do not need it."

Tom Barr recently published some university studies that showed that
algae is better able to handle fluxuating CO2 levels better than
higher plants. So by constantly having the CO2 level rise and fall,
you are giving the algae a slight advantage over the plants.


Ok, great Tom has confirmed that even plants have a hard time with
fluxuating CO2.

And you want to put that into your FISH tank!


The only possible reason I see to turn off CO2 at night is to save the
cost of the CO2. But when I pay just $10.00 for more than a year, I
can't see adding the cost of a solenoid and timer to switch the CO2 on
and off. It would take decades to make up the cost.


Or simply keep your CO2 pump with your "Plants Only tank"

I must say I have visited http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua and
I was very, very impressed by your web site, you are a person that
I do respect. Your planted tanks and catfish information was overwhelming.
I will visit your page again.

I would like to add your link to my page for those in search of
the perfect aquarium.



Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua




I have CO2 on my tank, and the plants love it. It's a hand-injected
system, so the CO2 goes in as and when I remember to do it.

I've carefully monitored my tank for problems overnight before the
plants kick back into photosynth in the day, and not seen any signs of
O2 depletion at all.

That's whether or not I give it another squirt of CO2 last thing at
night, or not.

Sometimes I get pearling, sometimes I don't. Currently, the plants are
suffering due to a faulty heaterstat (now replaced) which drove the temp
higher than they could tolerate, and I need to replace the tubes in the
lights.

Fish all doing wonderfully well - breeding pair of angels in a 28? us
gal tank, along with umpteen community fish (inc a betta and two pearl
gourami). I think much depends on *how much* CO2 is being injected into
the tank. Anyone with half a brain would have monitored both plant
growth and fish health and adjusted the CO2 to suit. It takes very
little CO2 to increase the plant health/growth.

Personally, yes, I would move to a 24/7 system at some point, if I could
justify it. Home-made yeast brews are too time consuming and run the
risk of dumping into the tank if it goes wrong (or exploding). Don't
see any reason why careful tailoring of the CO2 levels would be any
different to what I currently have.

--


Velvet

Summary

I have learned that those of you that have over 10 years experience
in this area find that CO2 is wonderful.
That's great, although a free CO2 pump made from a pop bottle is
to much work, it still works for those that are unsure of the advantages
of CO2 mixed in their aquarium.
I have also said for the beginner that it might be safer
for them to learn how to use CO2 on a Plant only tank
for reason stated above.

I do have a question for you.
If fish and there waste produce CO2,
Why don't you just add more fish?

I assume the reason is fish produce CO2 and ammonia and a
CO2 pump or supply only produces CO2.

I know this sounds like a dumb question,
But, its seems the more I learn the more questions
I have.

Thank you all for your time, and efforts.
Sir Douglas Cook

http://www.greyspace.bravehostNOSPAM.com/
Remove "NOSPAM" for correct address
London Ontario Canada
Aquarium Maintenance Man for Hire


"Velvet" wrote in message
...
Sir Douglas Cook wrote:

I really enjoyed visiting your website http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua
although I would like to chatt about the difference between beautiful
planted aquariums and beautiful planted aquariums with a CO2 pump
and Fishkeeping.

"Chuck Gadd" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 18 May 2004 18:38:02 -0700, "Sir Douglas Cook"
wrote:


Co2 pump are so easy to make why would anyone pay for
one???????????????

Yeast CO2 systems do provide as stable a source of CO2. Additionally,
they require much more time and effort. With a compressed gas CO2
system, you can set it, and not touch it for a year or more. The
price of yeast and sugar isn't free. I pay $10.00 for over a year
worth of CO2 for my 75g tank. To do that with a yeast system would
require several 2L bottles, and constant work mixing and changing
them.


I am just suggesting that just one person out there might just want
to try this "FREE" CO2 PUMP before they fork out the cash.

Since I add baking soda one 2L bottle will last over a month,
and after all my homemade CO2 filter is simple to make and
did I say "FREE", "FREE", "FREE".
The nice part about it is most of my friends that have CO2 pumps
said to me that "If only they tried my method first they wouldn't have
bought a C02 pump" because they care about their fish primarily.

But, since they own it they have setup another tank with the CO2
which is ONLY used for plants. Now that make sense.

You won't read anywhere that MORE CO2 is needed BY THE FISH
in an aquarium!!!!!!


your undergravel filter where there is lots of surface area for the gas

to

exchange.

The buildup of CO2 in the UGF would probably negatively effect the
bacteria that are critical for proper UGF operation.


That's what they tell you, although it does work well with UGF.
Keep in mind that if you mix CO2 in the upper part of the tank
you are in fact drawing the waste and the CO2 through the
UGF (Under Gravel Filter), Right.
And since I mix the CO2 after the UGF as the water flow in downward
(most/more) of the CO2 is used by the plants before it gets to the UGF.

It is funny to me, that the reason that I put the CO2 after the
UGF is the same reason that you dispute it!

Please read on.


care, if at all. Remember that high CO2 levels may reduce the oxygen

uptake

of the water and lead to a risk of hypoxia in the fish, especially if
the

Completely false at levels encountered in our aquariums. CO2 levels
elevated to the levels used for planted aquaria (40ppm max) will not
prevent any absorption of O2.


Wrong, it make sense that 40ppm could be oxygen which is replaced
with CO2. As stated above.


Additionally, when used correctly in a planted aquarium, with high
lighting, lots of plants, and CO2 injection, the plants photosynthesis
rate will be high enough to drive the O2 level over 100% during the
day. This is a cause of the "pearling" often seen in a healthy
planted tank. O2 bubbles are released into the water, because the
water cannot absorb any more.


Cannot absorb any more oxygen,,, Thank you for pointing that out.
Your right again, 40ppm is the CO2 that has attached itself to the
water making it impossible for the Water to accept the 40ppm of the
new oxygen.


In regular non-planted aquarium, using airstones or powerheads for
water movement/aeration, typical O2 levels are around 75%. In a
health CO2 injected planted tank, the O2 levels are over 100% during
the day, and during the night, only fall to 80% or so.



Are you telling me that the plant give off so much oxygen that your
water
is 100%, that's like pure H2O, Wow, that's sounds impressive!

I better tell my science teacher, that a planted aquarium with a
CO2 pump using the same hardware and equipment has more Oxygen at night!
He would be so proud of me. ;-)

It is not only my opinion but it is the opinion of
Mary Bailey and Peter Burgess as I QUOTED their book
Tropical Fishlopaedia
Mary Bailey has kept tropical fish for more than 25 years, and is known
INTERNATIONALLY AS AN EXPERT on the cichlid family. She has
written several fishkeeping books, and the English editor of
AQUA GEOGRAPHIA MAGAZINE. She also contributor to
and CO-EDITOR of, the cichlids yearbook series.

And

you my friend are disputing with

A

Dr. Peter Burgess BSc MSc Mphil PhD,

Is a "FISH HEALTH SCIENTIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!",
with more than 25 years' experience as an aquarist. An
author of numerous articles and scientific papers on fishkeeping,
he is editor of the
INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL AQUARIUM SCIENCES AND CONSERVATION!
A visiting lecturer in aquarium sciences, he is also an INTERNATIONAL
consultant to the aquarium fish industry.

Can you tell me about your background?
I can tell your information didn't come directly off of the CO2 Pumps
box.
But, for the listeners,,, Let them know strong your knowledge is.



dioxide, making the CO2 injection a rather pointless exercise! CO2

injection

should always be turned off at night - When the plants do not need it."

Tom Barr recently published some university studies that showed that
algae is better able to handle fluxuating CO2 levels better than
higher plants. So by constantly having the CO2 level rise and fall,
you are giving the algae a slight advantage over the plants.


Ok, great Tom has confirmed that even plants have a hard time with
fluxuating CO2.

And you want to put that into your FISH tank!


The only possible reason I see to turn off CO2 at night is to save the
cost of the CO2. But when I pay just $10.00 for more than a year, I
can't see adding the cost of a solenoid and timer to switch the CO2 on
and off. It would take decades to make up the cost.


Or simply keep your CO2 pump with your "Plants Only tank"

I must say I have visited http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua and
I was very, very impressed by your web site, you are a person that
I do respect. Your planted tanks and catfish information was
overwhelming.
I will visit your page again.

I would like to add your link to my page for those in search of
the perfect aquarium.



Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua




I have CO2 on my tank, and the plants love it. It's a hand-injected
system, so the CO2 goes in as and when I remember to do it.

I've carefully monitored my tank for problems overnight before the
plants kick back into photosynth in the day, and not seen any signs of
O2 depletion at all.

That's whether or not I give it another squirt of CO2 last thing at
night, or not.

Sometimes I get pearling, sometimes I don't. Currently, the plants are
suffering due to a faulty heaterstat (now replaced) which drove the temp
higher than they could tolerate, and I need to replace the tubes in the
lights.

Fish all doing wonderfully well - breeding pair of angels in a 28? us
gal tank, along with umpteen community fish (inc a betta and two pearl
gourami). I think much depends on *how much* CO2 is being injected into
the tank. Anyone with half a brain would have monitored both plant
growth and fish health and adjusted the CO2 to suit. It takes very
little CO2 to increase the plant health/growth.

Personally, yes, I would move to a 24/7 system at some point, if I could
justify it. Home-made yeast brews are too time consuming and run the
risk of dumping into the tank if it goes wrong (or exploding). Don't
see any reason why careful tailoring of the CO2 levels would be any
different to what I currently have.

--


Velvet