Anyone know of any tricks to keep deer out of our back yard, and from eating
all our hostas? We have a 4' fence, but apparently thet're jumping over it.

http://www.tangledvinegarden.com/blank.html




Bobby Baxter
Happy Moose Gardens
http://happymoosegardens.com

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 21:22:28 GMT, "Happy Moose"
wrote:

http://www.tangledvinegarden.com/blank.html


Any idea what is in that product?

John

does it really work?
anyone?

--




"Happy Moose" wrote in message
news
http://www.tangledvinegarden.com/blank.html




Bobby Baxter
Happy Moose Gardens
http://happymoosegardens.com

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 08:28:51 -0400, John Bachman
wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 21:22:28 GMT, "Happy Moose"
wrote:

http://www.tangledvinegarden.com/blank.html


Any idea what is in that product?

John


Pretty sketchy,,,,

http://www.deerscram.com/what_is_deerscram.asp



Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a pine, one need only own a shovel.
-- Aldo Leopold

"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 08:28:51 -0400, John Bachman
wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 21:22:28 GMT, "Happy Moose"
wrote:

http://www.tangledvinegarden.com/blank.html


Any idea what is in that product?

John


Pretty sketchy,,,,

http://www.deerscram.com/what_is_deerscram.asp

" Watch deer flee from the area or avoid it completely! " Flee????? Does
that mean they smell the stuff, and then run like the devil's chasing them?
I wonder if that's guaranteed. It would be worth it just for the
entertainment.

For years I suffered the loss of tulips, hosta and euonymous to deer.
Last year I followed a friends advise and put bamboo stakes in the
garden near thier favourite snacks, tied pieces of rags to them and
every other night I sprayed the rags with Downy fabric softener.
I also tied a few rags here and there along the perimeter of our
property and did the same thing. I had tulips and hostas galore this
year. Good Luck

In article , John Bachman
wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 21:22:28 GMT, "Happy Moose"
wrote:

http://www.tangledvinegarden.com/blank.html


Any idea what is in that product?

John

Dear SCAM illegally refuses to disclose the product content claiming it
has proprietary "secret" ingredients. They claim "animal by-products"
which probably means rendering plant sludge the blood content of which
would have repellant value though it wouldn't be as good as purer
bloodmeal, but it COULD mean something as useless as feathermeal
(literally made from feathers). The only reason not to reveal the "secret"
is either (a) it would be too obvious that you could buy that product more
cheaply without a trademark label or with a different trademark label, or
(b) it's an inferior ingredient like rendering plant sludge (tankage) or
feathermeal that cannot legally be labeled "bloodmeal" but only "animal
byproduct," instantly recognizable as either less effective or worthless.

If a product does not state clearly that it has either bloodmeal (as does
Plantskydd) or egg solids (as does Deer Away) as active ingredient, it
will not have a maximumly useful effect. There is no "secret" ingredient
that works better than the only ingredients that have been independly
tested & proven effective, so Deer Scram is definitely pulling a Scam
since it doesn't want the user to know if the most effective ingredients
are in it.

The Conference Proceedings for Advances & Challenges in Forest
Regeneration issued an overview that stated the only commercial
preparations that significantly cut down on deer foraging contained rotten
eggs or bloodmeal. A Rutgers study found capsican pepper effective as
well, but the Conference stated that products with ingredients that can
cause pain or illness to animals (including capsiacan pepper powder) did
not work as well as well as products with egg solids or bloodmeal, while
products reliant on ingredients with bitter taste had no effect at all.
Predator urine especially from wolfs has some effect but not the equal of
egg or bloodmeal, & predator urine can actually attract foxes or coyotes.

The INFERIOR but slightly effective ingredients in commercial concoctions
include meat meal or animal byproducts (instead of bloodmeal), predator
urines, or capsican hot pepper. The completely or nearly completely
ineffective ingredient ingredients found in deer repellants include
garlic, ammonium fatty acids (such as the useless product "Hinder & Repel"
but also in bars or soap or in Bounce fabric softener towlets which urban
folklore but no test study has claims to be effective), garlic, fishmeal
or fish emulsion, the bittering agents like thiram or denatonium benzoate,
paradichlorobenzens or naphthalene (mothballs).

So you MUST know the ingredients to know if you're getting a product with
even a chance of working. When Deer Scram claims their active ingredient
is "secret" but that it is entirely "animal by-product" sounds like they
actually did reveal that they buy the cheapest possible ingredient that by
law can only be labeled as "animal byproducts" because it is rendering
plant sludge, not a purer bloodmeal product (such as Plantskyd which is
mostly pig blood).

Products & home remedies that claim to work if hung from branches in small
bags or punctured cartons are either completely fake or work for five
minutes on the "one deer momentarily puzzled" factor. It is not true that
perfumes repell deer that are already used to foraging in the vicinity of
human habitation, though human smells such as provided by the "hang a bar
of soap" folkore remedy probably would repell deer who mistake the odor
for the presence of Man in wilderness areas. Useless in gardens.

Repellant choice should be sprayable because most effective when sprayed
directly on plants. For ground applications the egg-based repellants like
Deer Away are possibly better than bloodmeal-based, while for foliar
application a bloodmeal product like Plantskydd is probably best. A
two-product approach such as egg-based for ground-application & sprayable
bloodbased Plantskydd for foliar application would provide the maximum
protection ever achievable. Both function as plant fertilizers & are
harmless to plants & actually good for the environment. I've not used the
egg-based yet but supposedly it isn't foul to humans.

This is the first year I've personally had to deal with elk & deer. I'm
using Plantskydd because it was recommended by local wholesale ornamental
plant growers with unfenced properties, & the growers swear by it (though
this week I visited one of the growers whose field of serviceberries was
heavily browsed making all the plants ugly -- nothing else was touched --
mock orange, currants, twinberries, all sorts of shrubs -- the deer went
straight for the serviceberries). We're still visited by these critters at
SinLur (I see their fresh footprints everytime I'm at SinLur Gardens) but
for the last two months they have not foraged in the main gardens, & even
the roses which they have liked best in the past have not been touched. I
don't know if that's entirely Plantskydd's doing since seasonal browsing
patterns naturally change, & some construction on a nearby property
probably disrupts their activity.

In my own home garden I don't use any gardening products that include
animal byproducts (I would always select kelp over fish fertilizer for
instance) but at SinLur because of the deer we will be using bonemeal &
bloodmeal in the fertilizing regimens, even though these can attract
racoons & other beasties which love meat smells, but may have a slight
added benefit in making the deer think animals keep getting killed in
those otherwise tasty gardens.
--
Get your Paghat the Ratgirl T-Shirt he
http://www.paghat.com/giftshop.html
"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to
liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot." -Thomas Jefferson

In article , "Doug Kanter"
wrote:

"Tom Jaszewski" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 08:28:51 -0400, John Bachman
wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 21:22:28 GMT, "Happy Moose"
wrote:

http://www.tangledvinegarden.com/blank.html


Any idea what is in that product?

John


Pretty sketchy,,,,

http://www.deerscram.com/what_is_deerscram.asp

" Watch deer flee from the area or avoid it completely! " Flee????? Does
that mean they smell the stuff, and then run like the devil's chasing them?
I wonder if that's guaranteed. It would be worth it just for the
entertainment.

The ad-text version that they will guarantee is this one: "douse yourself
in deer urine after you build a blind & hide in it day & night & when you
catch a family of deer foraging on the shrubs you foolishly thought were
protected by Deer Scam, leap up & scream 'god damn it!' and watch the deer
flee from the area!"

-paghat the ratgirl
--
Get your Paghat the Ratgirl T-Shirt he
http://www.paghat.com/giftshop.html
"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to
liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot." -Thomas Jefferson

I just reached the point this past week where I'm prepared to bribe the
town's building permit guy to give me permission to put up an 8 foot chain
link fence. It may be ugly, but not as ugly as my mood when I see ALL my
bean plants hacked down. Some of the repellents sound interesting, but they
need to be applied either to the plants, or to the perimeter. What happens
when you come into contact with this stuff? Do you carry the smell into the
house on shoes & clothing? No thanks.

(paghat) wrote in
news
In article , John Bachman
wrote:

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 21:22:28 GMT, "Happy Moose"
wrote:

http://www.tangledvinegarden.com/blank.html


Any idea what is in that product?

John

Dear SCAM illegally refuses to disclose the product content claiming
it has proprietary "secret" ingredients. They claim "animal
by-products" which probably means rendering plant sludge the blood

In truth I can tell you, as I have been formerly been employed as an
agent in the art of industrial espionage, that yes in fact some of these
operations do use ingredients worthy of being secreted. In many secluded
places all across America, there are factory workers, some legal, some
illegal, sweating over treadmills to produce these secret ingredients. I
won't reveal the exact process, except for a price, but I will tell you
that it involves attaching one end of the worker to a taco bell and the
other end to a hose that is shoved up ... whoa would you look at the
time. Sorry got to go ...

Buck Turgidson wrote:
Anyone know of any tricks to keep deer out of our back yard, and from eating
all our hostas? We have a 4' fence, but apparently thet're jumping over it.

I have been using "Deer Solution" made by Natural Pest Solutions for
the past year and it has made a HUGE difference in my yard. Last year
(my first year with a garden!), they ate all of my tulips, liles,
hostas and other tasty/expensive plants constantly. Now, they will
nibble when I don't keep up with it, but mostly leave my yard alone
now. It is systemic and should last 100 days, unless there is new
growth. They instructions say to re-spray for every 2" of new growth
and that seems about right. I did that throughout the Springtime on
the plants that needed it. Right now, everything is pretty mature and
I haven't sprayed in over a month. They nibbled one plant last week
and that has been it. I don't know if they were just tasing it and
found it to still taste bad or it is time for a touch-up of a few
plants. The deer do pass through my yard daily (ok, nightly) and leave
it pretty much alone right now.

It seemed expensive when I got it from my local garden center
($30/gallon), but is a lot cheaper than having to replace all of my
plants and goes a long way. Recently, I found a concentrate at an
online store (countrygardentsinc.com) that is more economical and will
last me for several years at the current rate I use it. One gallon of
concentrate makes 10 ready-to-use gallons.

Somewhere online, I have seen the list of ingredients, but I can't seem
to find it now. I think the primary active ingredients are clove and
cinnamon oil (and my yard smells yummy when it is freshly sprayed!) and
the base is vinegar. If you'd like, I can check the ingredients when I
get home and post/E-mail that. It is considered to be a category 25B
food product by the EPA and can be used on vegetable gardens safely. I
haven't tried that though. I'm still working on decorative
flowers/plants. Maybe somebody more ambitious than me can try to make
a home version?

Good luck!

Lisa
(who is a relatively new gardener who is lurking to learn more about
gardening and has NO affiliation with the product or any
nursery/supplier)

Some folks I know swear by "Liquid Fence" for deer. The active ingredient
listed is garlic, but I see it also contains whole egg. My hunch is that is
isn't so much a repellant but a smell inhibitor, that is, it keeps the deer
from finding the plants by smell. Here's a link to the label:
http://www.hirts.com/cgi-local/catal...t=9,&item=3247

Another product some folks tell me works for deer and rabbits is our
locally-produced fertilizer, Milorganite -- short for Milwakee organic
nitrogen. It's produced as a byproduct of sewerage sludge, but is
purportedly nontoxic, even in the veggie garden. BTW -- please spare me the
poo jokes, I've heard them all! Anyway, the method of application is to
surround plants or plantings with the product.
http://www.adamsfarms.com/pest_disease_control_6.htm I 'm not sure, tho, how
available the product is outside the metro area.

Suzy O
"Buck Turgidson" wrote in message
news:XhRGe.54009$rb6.30347@lakeread07...
Anyone know of any tricks to keep deer out of our back yard, and from
eating
all our hostas? We have a 4' fence, but apparently thet're jumping over
it.

Deer Scram has all ingredients listed on the container, It is made up
of Dried Blood,Cloves,Garlic,White Pepper. An old Farmers trick was
to spread dead deer parts around crops to deter deer from entering.
Through good science and not foul odors... Deer Scram has
accomplished this.