I am looking for a few species of trees with deep roots -- the deeper, the
better. I want to ease some water issues we're having on our property,
mostly from water that is deeper in the ground than it is at the surface.
I'm considering Poplar & Alder -- already have a Willow & a Sycamore, and
I'm not entirely certain a Birch would work well.

Any other suggestions?

James
Zone 6, SW Ohio

I think you might want to look for maples and oaks for deep roots

"JNJ" wrote in message ...
I am looking for a few species of trees with deep roots -- the deeper, the
better. I want to ease some water issues we're having on our property,
mostly from water that is deeper in the ground than it is at the surface.
I'm considering Poplar & Alder -- already have a Willow & a Sycamore, and
I'm not entirely certain a Birch would work well.

Any other suggestions?

James
Zone 6, SW Ohio

JNJ wrote:

I am looking for a few species of trees with deep roots -- the deeper, the
better. I want to ease some water issues we're having on our property,
mostly from water that is deeper in the ground than it is at the surface.
I'm considering Poplar & Alder -- already have a Willow & a Sycamore, and
I'm not entirely certain a Birch would work well.

What exactly is it you are trying to accomplish? Are you hoping the trees will
suck up excess water? They will take up only what they need - no more, no
less. How deep the roots penetrate is not really material. If you have soggy
ground, then yes, it does make sense to plant trees which are moisture lovers,
but don't expect them to achieve good drainage for you. They are simply not
programmed in that fashion.

pam - gardengal

You might consider bald cypress, which should be hardy in your area. Also
Nyssa (tupelo), and alders.
"JNJ" wrote in message ...
I am looking for a few species of trees with deep roots -- the deeper, the
better. I want to ease some water issues we're having on our property,
mostly from water that is deeper in the ground than it is at the surface.
I'm considering Poplar & Alder -- already have a Willow & a Sycamore, and
I'm not entirely certain a Birch would work well.

Any other suggestions?

James
Zone 6, SW Ohio

"JNJ" wrote in message ...
I am looking for a few species of trees with deep roots -- the deeper, the
better. I want to ease some water issues we're having on our property,
mostly from water that is deeper in the ground than it is at the surface.
I'm considering Poplar & Alder -- already have a Willow & a Sycamore, and
I'm not entirely certain a Birch would work well.

Any other suggestions?

James
Zone 6, SW Ohio

Trees with taproots reach farther down than any other tree. Any tree
growing on the sunny side of hills in your region will probably be a
good choice. Oaks, some hickories and especially chestnut trees are
known to be immune to drought, though I have to say that my (40-50
years old) hickories did show signs of stress last summer (my 6-years
old chestnuts, and both red oaks, one 60+ years old, the other 15years
old, did not). Keep in mind that these trees can not, typically, be
transplanted. You put them in their final place. They will also want
good drainage, so don't put them next to the willow. Chestnut are
magnificent trees, and oaks are not too shabby. Hickories are so-so.

You might consider bald cypress, which should be hardy in your area. Also
Nyssa (tupelo), and alders.

Alders are definitely up on the list. How quickly do Cypress and Tupelo
grow?

What exactly is it you are trying to accomplish? Are you hoping the trees
will
suck up excess water? They will take up only what they need - no more, no
less. How deep the roots penetrate is not really material. If you have
soggy
ground, then yes, it does make sense to plant trees which are moisture
lovers,
but don't expect them to achieve good drainage for you. They are simply
not
programmed in that fashion.

I wouldn't really call it drainage per se -- that's part of the goal here,
but there's much more to it than that.

The area gets heavy runoff during the spring courtesy of the church that
sits on the hill behind us -- the whole property is a hill behind a hill
behind a hill. The topmost hill is every bit of a few hundred feet up from
where our house sits, and about a mile away as the crow flies. Trees that
are moisture lovers will enjoy sucking that water out of the hill -- if they
have an agressive root system, they'll do even better. I've researched the
use of trees for these purposes and it's actually quite common in industrial
applications.

Deep roots will ensure a couple of things:

1) The area is already surrounded by trees however these species do not have
very deep root systems. Competition for resources during drier periods
could prove difficult for the new trees, so if they have deep roots they'll
have access to far more nutrients.

2) When there is a heavy rain and/or heavy runoff, the area back there
becomes saturated and water of course seeps further into the ground. A tree
bank with deep roots will aid in absorbing some of that water up. It will
also help in anchoring soil.

3) Sometimes we some pretty gusty winds back there -- I'm surprised that a
few trees have managed to survive (I've seen them bend pretty far over).
Deeper roots typically means better anchored.

4) Things on the surface with shallow root systems can survive under things
with deep root systems. That means I can get a decent groundcover to grow
or possibly even some grass.

So it's a multi-problem solution.

JNJ wrote:
....
: So it's a multi-problem solution.

Clearly! However, as someone else already pointed out, you're not going
to solve a drainage problem with trees. The key issue here isn't deep
roots, though, so in a way you are actually trying to solve the wrong
problem. What you can hope to do is find trees the will tolerate and
possibly even thrive in a periodically very wet conditions. Most trees
that tolerate wet conditions are known to be 'greedy' and have very dense
surface roots, generally not taproots.

The old picture of the tree's root system as a mirror image of what's
above ground isn't accurate. Most of a tree's feeder roots are within the
top foot or two soil where they can get the oxygen they need to be able to
aborb water. Without oxygen, as in soil saturated with water, many trees
(and plants in general) will literally die of thirst in the midst of
plenty.

An excellent list with the promising title "Qualifiers for Quagmires:
Landscape Plants for Wet Sites" is available from the North Carolina State
University: http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/hil/hil-646.html
Since NC is a zone south of you, so you'll need to check the plants on
their list for hardiness in your area.

An excellent general search engine for factsheets on all things
horticultural is OSU's Plants facts: http://plantfacts.osu.edu/web/

Be sure to have your utilities come out and mark the location of existing
utility or sewer(!!) lines before you plant. Many of the trees on this
list will begin to interfere with old clay tile-based storm sewers in
pretty short order, so unless you are good pals with the Roto-Rooter guy,
you'll need to keep this in mind, as well.

Good luck!

-- Karen

The Garden Gate http://garden-gate.prairienet.org
================================================== =================
"If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need."
^and cats -- Cicero
================================================== =================
On the Web since 1994 Forbes Best of Web 2002

Clearly! However, as someone else already pointed out, you're not going
to solve a drainage problem with trees.

Like I said though -- I'm not looking to solve it, just ease it a bit.
We're working on a few other things that will further ease the pain as well
as an actual solution (got an estimate on waterproofing the foundation --
hurts, but it's the only true solution available). We also want to add to
the wildlife refuge value -- lots of squirrels, rabbits, racoons, and birds
around here.

An excellent list with the promising title "Qualifiers for Quagmires:
Landscape Plants for Wet Sites" is available from the North Carolina State
University: http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/hil/hil-646.html
Since NC is a zone south of you, so you'll need to check the plants on
their list for hardiness in your area.

An excellent general search engine for factsheets on all things
horticultural is OSU's Plants facts: http://plantfacts.osu.edu/web/

Thanks for the links.

Be sure to have your utilities come out and mark the location of existing
utility or sewer(!!) lines before you plant. Many of the trees on this
list will begin to interfere with old clay tile-based storm sewers in
pretty short order, so unless you are good pals with the Roto-Rooter guy,
you'll need to keep this in mind, as well.

Non-issue -- we're at least 100 feet away from any structures and in the
opposite direction of sewage equipment or other utilities. Now I *AM*
looking for a specimen tree to put out by the driveway. Gotta be sun
tolerant, drought tolerant, be not too agressive with its root system, grow
only up to about 20-30 feet, and not have a problem being next to a street
that sees 80,000 cars a day. Any suggestions on that 'un?!

James

JNJ wrote:
: opposite direction of sewage equipment or other utilities. Now I *AM*
: looking for a specimen tree to put out by the driveway. Gotta be sun
: tolerant, drought tolerant, be not too agressive with its root system, grow
: only up to about 20-30 feet, and not have a problem being next to a street
: that sees 80,000 cars a day. Any suggestions on that 'un?!

Seek and ye shall find ;-) Try searching Google for: street trees Ohio
or: urban trees Ohio

Or call your electric utility for a free brochure.

Cheers!

-- Karen

The Garden Gate http://garden-gate.prairienet.org
================================================== ===================
"No occupation is so delightful to me as the culture of the earth, no
culture comparable to that of the garden ... But though an old man,
I am but a young gardener." -- Thomas Jefferson, Garden Book, 1811
================================================== ===================
On the Web since 1994 Forbes Best of Web 2002

"JNJ" wrote in message ...
Trees with taproots reach farther down than any other tree. Any tree
growing on the sunny side of hills in your region will probably be a
good choice. Oaks, some hickories and especially chestnut trees are
known to be immune to drought, though I have to say that my (40-50
years old) hickories did show signs of stress last summer (my 6-years
old chestnuts, and both red oaks, one 60+ years old, the other 15years
old, did not). Keep in mind that these trees can not, typically, be
transplanted. You put them in their final place. They will also want
good drainage, so don't put them next to the willow. Chestnut are
magnificent trees, and oaks are not too shabby. Hickories are so-so.

Hmmmmm...we have a pretty heavily clay based soil back there so drainage
over much of the area is not too hot. During the spring we get a decent
amount of rain and runoff. I might keep these in mind for another spot
where I need a nice specimen tree though -- how agressive are their root
systems?

James

I would guess that the surface roots of taproot trees are no worse
than any other tree. If you have heavy clay, I would consider a
taproot tree only at locations that are slightly uphill. They would
not work in a place where water collects. You will never find a
taproot tree that works there.

I would guess that the surface roots of taproot trees are no worse
than any other tree. If you have heavy clay, I would consider a
taproot tree only at locations that are slightly uphill. They would
not work in a place where water collects. You will never find a
taproot tree that works there.

Heh -- everything is uphill here, unless you're standing lower than an
uphill location.

James

Id like to make a point really quick about all the conversation on "taproot
trees". Unless you are planting a tree from seed, directly into the ground
where the tree is going to grow without being transplanted, you arent going to
get a tree with a taproot. Many trees naturally form taproots, but they are
either broken or purposley removed during the production process. Many nut
trees are known for having taproots, but the walnuts, etc. that you buy in the
nursery have been transplanted usually at least a few times during thier life.
Many growers will purposley use bottomless pots that allow the taproot to grow
out of the soil, dry up, and die. Anyway, dont count on these trees to have a
taproot because most often they will not.

Toad

Whenever you decide on what you want to plant, consider this
possibility. Get a fence post auger with a 3 foot 4 inch auger drill bit
and drill about 8 holes in a circle and fill with soft rock, organic
fertilizer and compost. This will break up your soil and create root
wells where the tree roots will grow into seeking the nutrients and
anchoring the tree very well. In 3-5 year, the area around the tree will
be entirely friable and you will have one heck of a healthly, tall tree.

J. Kolenovsky
http://www.celestialhabitats.com

JNJ wrote:
=

I am looking for a few species of trees with deep roots -- the deeper, =
the
better. I want to ease some water issues we're having on our property,=

mostly from water that is deeper in the ground than it is at the surfac=
e.
I'm considering Poplar & Alder -- already have a Willow & a Sycamore, a=
nd
I'm not entirely certain a Birch would work well.
=

Any other suggestions?
=

James
Zone 6, SW Ohio

-- =

J. Kolenovsky, A+, Network +, MCP
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - commercial
=F4=BF=F4 - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html