I guess I've been lucky during 35 years of gardening - this is the first
time I've had to deal with Japanese beetles. They're decimating my grape
vine leaves. I doused them last night with disgusting, fermented
garlic/onion spray that I made last year, which chased them away. Are they a
short-visit pest, or do they tend to move in with their furniture and
extended families once they've found a snack they like?

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

I guess I've been lucky during 35 years of gardening - this is the first
time I've had to deal with Japanese beetles. They're decimating my grape
vine leaves. I doused them last night with disgusting, fermented
garlic/onion spray that I made last year, which chased them away. Are they a
short-visit pest, or do they tend to move in with their furniture and
extended families once they've found a snack they like?

Look into milky spore disease. If neighbors don't bother at least
the grubs in your yard will be less. Slow acting but lasts years. We
have used those yellow traps. Just be sure to place them far away from
your plants.

We don't have them about this year. Knock on wood ). No gyspy moths
either. Seems cyclical.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_beetle

Bill

--
S Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade
This article is posted under fair use rules in accordance with
Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, and is strictly for the educational
and informative purposes. This material is distributed without profit.

Joe,

I've endured the beetles for over 3 decades. My approach
is peaceful co-existence. The grape leaves look ugly with all
of the holes in them, but my crops have always been excellent
in spite of the damage to the leaves. In my warped opinion, every
hole in a leaf just creates an opportunity for the leaf below to
get more sunlight.

Very seriously, I don't see any real harm to the plants. Currently,
the pesky little bugs are eating my grape leaves for energy,
humping one another, and then dining on grape leaves again.
Sort of like the insect variety of college students.

I still get a great crop and my bigger concern is the bees,
wasps, other insects and birds who will be dining on my crop
when it matures. That is much more serious. Nets help with
the birds, but it is very difficult to keep the insect away.

After the vigorous breeding on my grapes vines, the beetles
will move on to deposit their eggs on my lawn and the lawns of
my neighbors. The subsequent grubs are a non-trivial problem,
but I've even learned to live with that. Of course, that means
that there will be a fresh crop of beetles down the road to
repeat the cycle.

You are extremely lucky if you've grown grapes for 35 years
and you are just encountering Japanese beetles. Others may
disagree with me, but I seriously suggest that you just see
how you crop turns out in spite of the holes in the grape
leaves.

FYI: every year my grape leaves look as if somebody blasted
them repeatedly with a 12 gauge shotgun. Ugly, but still
very productive.

Treating your lawn for grubs may mitigate future problems,
but not very much unless all of your neighbors do the same.
Grubs in any nearby lawns will probably produce beetles who
will feast on your grape leaves next year.

Good luck,
Gideon

PS: Don't forget to harvest some of those tender young grape
leaves early next season before they turn tough and before
they get eaten by bugs. There are many great uses for tender
young grape leaves. I share mine with several neighbors,
most of whom reciprocate by sharing the delicacies that they
make from the leaves.

==============

JoeSpareBedroom wrote in message ...
I guess I've been lucky during 35 years of gardening - this is the first
time I've had to deal with Japanese beetles. They're decimating my grape
vine leaves. I doused them last night with disgusting, fermented
garlic/onion spray that I made last year, which chased them away. Are they a
short-visit pest, or do they tend to move in with their furniture and
extended families once they've found a snack they like?

I have no intention, by the way, of using any treatment other than my
current garlic spray, or perhaps the appropriate milky spore concoction.
I'll probably crank up the garlic/onion thing with some cayenne, once the
peppers get a bit riper (I'll probably have 8 billion peppers ready in two
weeks). I'm just concerned because these grapes were just planted this
season, and I don't think they can afford to lose MUCH leaf volume. Later,
when they're monsters, I agree that some leaf loss won't be a big deal.

Is insecticidal soap effective at all against these bugs, or do they just
laugh at that stuff?


"Gideon" wrote in message
. ..
Joe,

I've endured the beetles for over 3 decades. My approach
is peaceful co-existence. The grape leaves look ugly with all
of the holes in them, but my crops have always been excellent
in spite of the damage to the leaves. In my warped opinion, every
hole in a leaf just creates an opportunity for the leaf below to
get more sunlight.

Very seriously, I don't see any real harm to the plants. Currently,
the pesky little bugs are eating my grape leaves for energy,
humping one another, and then dining on grape leaves again.
Sort of like the insect variety of college students.

I still get a great crop and my bigger concern is the bees,
wasps, other insects and birds who will be dining on my crop
when it matures. That is much more serious. Nets help with
the birds, but it is very difficult to keep the insect away.

After the vigorous breeding on my grapes vines, the beetles
will move on to deposit their eggs on my lawn and the lawns of
my neighbors. The subsequent grubs are a non-trivial problem,
but I've even learned to live with that. Of course, that means
that there will be a fresh crop of beetles down the road to
repeat the cycle.

You are extremely lucky if you've grown grapes for 35 years
and you are just encountering Japanese beetles. Others may
disagree with me, but I seriously suggest that you just see
how you crop turns out in spite of the holes in the grape
leaves.

FYI: every year my grape leaves look as if somebody blasted
them repeatedly with a 12 gauge shotgun. Ugly, but still
very productive.

Treating your lawn for grubs may mitigate future problems,
but not very much unless all of your neighbors do the same.
Grubs in any nearby lawns will probably produce beetles who
will feast on your grape leaves next year.

Good luck,
Gideon

PS: Don't forget to harvest some of those tender young grape
leaves early next season before they turn tough and before
they get eaten by bugs. There are many great uses for tender
young grape leaves. I share mine with several neighbors,
most of whom reciprocate by sharing the delicacies that they
make from the leaves.

==============

JoeSpareBedroom wrote in message ...
I guess I've been lucky during 35 years of gardening - this is the first
time I've had to deal with Japanese beetles. They're decimating my grape
vine leaves. I doused them last night with disgusting, fermented
garlic/onion spray that I made last year, which chased them away. Are they
a
short-visit pest, or do they tend to move in with their furniture and
extended families once they've found a snack they like?

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
I guess I've been lucky during 35 years of gardening - this is the first
time I've had to deal with Japanese beetles. They're decimating my grape
vine leaves. I doused them last night with disgusting, fermented
garlic/onion spray that I made last year, which chased them away. Are they
a short-visit pest, or do they tend to move in with their furniture and
extended families once they've found a snack they like?

In my experience they become homesteaders.

"Mindful" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
I guess I've been lucky during 35 years of gardening - this is the first
time I've had to deal with Japanese beetles. They're decimating my grape
vine leaves. I doused them last night with disgusting, fermented
garlic/onion spray that I made last year, which chased them away. Are they
a short-visit pest, or do they tend to move in with their furniture and
extended families once they've found a snack they like?

In my experience they become homesteaders.

Time for the propane torch....

For young grape plants I would be a bit more concerned,
but they will still survive rather well.

FYI: I examined my grapes this morning. Some leaves
look like green lace. About 98% of the green on some of
the leaves is gone. Other leaves look robust and untouched.

My college-aged son enjoyed cutting mating pairs of beetles
in half with the pruners, more for fun than for protection of
the grapes. PETA will probably be filing a complaint.

If you already have the materials for spraying, then I'd suggest
proceeding. Just remember that plants are very resilient and
the grapes will survive quite well and the success of next years
grapes will be unaffected.

Once again, this is just my opinion: I try to avoid creating
more gardening work then necessary. There are pests, diseases
and so many other problems that I just force myself to ignore
the minor ones. For me, beetles having a lunch on my grape
leaves is one of the more minor problems. I'm not trivializing
your concern; just presenting my perspective.

Good luck,
Gideon

============

JoeSpareBedroom wrote in message ...
I have no intention, by the way, of using any treatment other than my
current garlic spray, or perhaps the appropriate milky spore concoction.
I'll probably crank up the garlic/onion thing with some cayenne, once the
peppers get a bit riper (I'll probably have 8 billion peppers ready in two
weeks). I'm just concerned because these grapes were just planted this
season, and I don't think they can afford to lose MUCH leaf volume. Later,
when they're monsters, I agree that some leaf loss won't be a big deal.

Is insecticidal soap effective at all against these bugs, or do they just
laugh at that stuff?


"Gideon" wrote in message
. ..
Joe,

I've endured the beetles for over 3 decades. My approach
is peaceful co-existence. The grape leaves look ugly with all
of the holes in them, but my crops have always been excellent
in spite of the damage to the leaves. In my warped opinion, every
hole in a leaf just creates an opportunity for the leaf below to
get more sunlight.

Very seriously, I don't see any real harm to the plants. Currently,
the pesky little bugs are eating my grape leaves for energy,
humping one another, and then dining on grape leaves again.
Sort of like the insect variety of college students.

I still get a great crop and my bigger concern is the bees,
wasps, other insects and birds who will be dining on my crop
when it matures. That is much more serious. Nets help with
the birds, but it is very difficult to keep the insect away.

After the vigorous breeding on my grapes vines, the beetles
will move on to deposit their eggs on my lawn and the lawns of
my neighbors. The subsequent grubs are a non-trivial problem,
but I've even learned to live with that. Of course, that means
that there will be a fresh crop of beetles down the road to
repeat the cycle.

You are extremely lucky if you've grown grapes for 35 years
and you are just encountering Japanese beetles. Others may
disagree with me, but I seriously suggest that you just see
how you crop turns out in spite of the holes in the grape
leaves.

FYI: every year my grape leaves look as if somebody blasted
them repeatedly with a 12 gauge shotgun. Ugly, but still
very productive.

Treating your lawn for grubs may mitigate future problems,
but not very much unless all of your neighbors do the same.
Grubs in any nearby lawns will probably produce beetles who
will feast on your grape leaves next year.

Good luck,
Gideon

PS: Don't forget to harvest some of those tender young grape
leaves early next season before they turn tough and before
they get eaten by bugs. There are many great uses for tender
young grape leaves. I share mine with several neighbors,
most of whom reciprocate by sharing the delicacies that they
make from the leaves.

==============

JoeSpareBedroom wrote in message ...
I guess I've been lucky during 35 years of gardening - this is the first
time I've had to deal with Japanese beetles. They're decimating my grape
vine leaves. I doused them last night with disgusting, fermented
garlic/onion spray that I made last year, which chased them away. Are they
a
short-visit pest, or do they tend to move in with their furniture and
extended families once they've found a snack they like?

I agree about the extra work. And, the beetles are the least of my concerns.
The deer are another story. In NY, it's legal to kill any animal which
destroys food crops. Unfortunately, where I live, there's no safe (or legal)
way to do that with a firearm. All other ideas have been exhausted. I may be
out there with a baseball bat and an axe in the next few nights.

"Gideon" wrote in message
. ..
For young grape plants I would be a bit more concerned,
but they will still survive rather well.

FYI: I examined my grapes this morning. Some leaves
look like green lace. About 98% of the green on some of
the leaves is gone. Other leaves look robust and untouched.

My college-aged son enjoyed cutting mating pairs of beetles
in half with the pruners, more for fun than for protection of
the grapes. PETA will probably be filing a complaint.

If you already have the materials for spraying, then I'd suggest
proceeding. Just remember that plants are very resilient and
the grapes will survive quite well and the success of next years
grapes will be unaffected.

Once again, this is just my opinion: I try to avoid creating
more gardening work then necessary. There are pests, diseases
and so many other problems that I just force myself to ignore
the minor ones. For me, beetles having a lunch on my grape
leaves is one of the more minor problems. I'm not trivializing
your concern; just presenting my perspective.

Good luck,
Gideon

============

JoeSpareBedroom wrote in message ...
I have no intention, by the way, of using any treatment other than my
current garlic spray, or perhaps the appropriate milky spore concoction.
I'll probably crank up the garlic/onion thing with some cayenne, once the
peppers get a bit riper (I'll probably have 8 billion peppers ready in two
weeks). I'm just concerned because these grapes were just planted this
season, and I don't think they can afford to lose MUCH leaf volume. Later,
when they're monsters, I agree that some leaf loss won't be a big deal.

Is insecticidal soap effective at all against these bugs, or do they just
laugh at that stuff?


"Gideon" wrote in message
. ..
Joe,

I've endured the beetles for over 3 decades. My approach
is peaceful co-existence. The grape leaves look ugly with all
of the holes in them, but my crops have always been excellent
in spite of the damage to the leaves. In my warped opinion, every
hole in a leaf just creates an opportunity for the leaf below to
get more sunlight.

Very seriously, I don't see any real harm to the plants. Currently,
the pesky little bugs are eating my grape leaves for energy,
humping one another, and then dining on grape leaves again.
Sort of like the insect variety of college students.

I still get a great crop and my bigger concern is the bees,
wasps, other insects and birds who will be dining on my crop
when it matures. That is much more serious. Nets help with
the birds, but it is very difficult to keep the insect away.

After the vigorous breeding on my grapes vines, the beetles
will move on to deposit their eggs on my lawn and the lawns of
my neighbors. The subsequent grubs are a non-trivial problem,
but I've even learned to live with that. Of course, that means
that there will be a fresh crop of beetles down the road to
repeat the cycle.

You are extremely lucky if you've grown grapes for 35 years
and you are just encountering Japanese beetles. Others may
disagree with me, but I seriously suggest that you just see
how you crop turns out in spite of the holes in the grape
leaves.

FYI: every year my grape leaves look as if somebody blasted
them repeatedly with a 12 gauge shotgun. Ugly, but still
very productive.

Treating your lawn for grubs may mitigate future problems,
but not very much unless all of your neighbors do the same.
Grubs in any nearby lawns will probably produce beetles who
will feast on your grape leaves next year.

Good luck,
Gideon

PS: Don't forget to harvest some of those tender young grape
leaves early next season before they turn tough and before
they get eaten by bugs. There are many great uses for tender
young grape leaves. I share mine with several neighbors,
most of whom reciprocate by sharing the delicacies that they
make from the leaves.

==============

JoeSpareBedroom wrote in message ...
I guess I've been lucky during 35 years of gardening - this is the first
time I've had to deal with Japanese beetles. They're decimating my grape
vine leaves. I doused them last night with disgusting, fermented
garlic/onion spray that I made last year, which chased them away. Are
they
a
short-visit pest, or do they tend to move in with their furniture and
extended families once they've found a snack they like?

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
I guess I've been lucky during 35 years of gardening - this is the first
time I've had to deal with Japanese beetles. They're decimating my grape
vine leaves. I doused them last night with disgusting, fermented
garlic/onion spray that I made last year, which chased them away. Are they a
short-visit pest, or do they tend to move in with their furniture and
extended families once they've found a snack they like?

I you are adverse to using Sevin, there are traps.
But, don't do the stupid thing I did and hang traps near the grapes.
Place away from crops you want to protect, otherwise they snack before
going to sleep in the trap.

Frank

Frank wrote:
But, don't do the stupid thing I did and hang traps near the grapes.
Place away from crops you want to protect, otherwise they snack before
going to sleep in the trap.

================

Good advice. The traps attract beetles and that's the last
thing that you need when the bugs are already attacking
your crops. Find a neighbor you hate. Conceal the traps
on his property.

Gideon

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:16:04 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Mindful" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
I guess I've been lucky during 35 years of gardening - this is the first
time I've had to deal with Japanese beetles. They're decimating my grape
vine leaves. I doused them last night with disgusting, fermented
garlic/onion spray that I made last year, which chased them away. Are they
a short-visit pest, or do they tend to move in with their furniture and
extended families once they've found a snack they like?

In my experience they become homesteaders.

Time for the propane torch....

I think you're spinning your wheels Read this following
bit of history from the early 1900's on the attempts to
quarantine the new pest:

http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~insects/jb.htm

They did some mighty nasty things to the environment and yet
the beetle is still expanding its range...

From what I have observed in my area (beetles have been here
for ~8 years) they seem to really like grape vines. At least
the wild variety.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

"Leon Fisk" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:16:04 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

"Mindful" wrote in message
...

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
I guess I've been lucky during 35 years of gardening - this is the first
time I've had to deal with Japanese beetles. They're decimating my grape
vine leaves. I doused them last night with disgusting, fermented
garlic/onion spray that I made last year, which chased them away. Are
they
a short-visit pest, or do they tend to move in with their furniture and
extended families once they've found a snack they like?

In my experience they become homesteaders.

Time for the propane torch....

I think you're spinning your wheels Read this following
bit of history from the early 1900's on the attempts to
quarantine the new pest:

http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~insects/jb.htm

They did some mighty nasty things to the environment and yet
the beetle is still expanding its range...

From what I have observed in my area (beetles have been here
for ~8 years) they seem to really like grape vines. At least
the wild variety.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Oh great. I wonder who likes to eat them. Probably no animal anywhere in MY
neighborhood.

On 2006-07-20 09:52:25 -0400, William Wagner
said:

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

I guess I've been lucky during 35 years of gardening - this is the
first time I've had to deal with Japanese beetles. They're decimating
my grape vine leaves. I doused them last night with disgusting,
fermented garlic/onion spray that I made last year, which chased them
away. Are they a short-visit pest, or do they tend to move in with
their furniture and extended families once they've found a snack they
like?
Look into milky spore disease. If neighbors don't bother at least
the grubs in your yard will be less. Slow acting but lasts years. We
have used those yellow traps. Just be sure to place them far away
from your plants.
We don't have them about this year. Knock on wood ). No gyspy moths
either. Seems cyclical.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_beetle

Bill


They are really bad this year, I have caught THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS
so far this year in my Teece brand trap.. think of 4 quart sized mayo
jars FULL.

Bill R wrote:
I gave up on the traps. I caught thousands of beetles in them but I
found a bad side effect: at mid day my lawn would have hundreds of
beetles buzzing over it, with clusters of 30 or more in some kind of
orgy actaully on the lawn.

I have never seen this behaviour prior to employing the traps and it
went away when I took them down. I also observed the beetles eating my
azaleas and dwarf spruce new growth. Again, never seen this in prior
years and it stopped when the traps were taken down.

The problem now is I feel like I *have* to use a chemical on the lawn
for the first time, thanks to the traps. Yes the traps do catch
beetles, but they bring way more to area.

============

I agree with everything that you have said. If you really
hate a neighbor, then purchase the lure from the Japanese
Beetle traps and covertly toss it into his garden.

Seriously, the traps attract so many beetles that it outways the
much smaller number of beetles which are killed.

Gideon

Since I hosed down the grape vines last week with disgusting year-old
fermented onion/garlic/cayenne solution, there have been no beetles, even
after 4 hours of heavy rain which should washed the stuff off. I doubt my
luck will last, but I'm just saying...ya know...maybe.


"Gideon" wrote in message
. ..

Bill R wrote:
I gave up on the traps. I caught thousands of beetles in them but I
found a bad side effect: at mid day my lawn would have hundreds of
beetles buzzing over it, with clusters of 30 or more in some kind of
orgy actaully on the lawn.

I have never seen this behaviour prior to employing the traps and it
went away when I took them down. I also observed the beetles eating my
azaleas and dwarf spruce new growth. Again, never seen this in prior
years and it stopped when the traps were taken down.

The problem now is I feel like I *have* to use a chemical on the lawn
for the first time, thanks to the traps. Yes the traps do catch
beetles, but they bring way more to area.

============

I agree with everything that you have said. If you really
hate a neighbor, then purchase the lure from the Japanese
Beetle traps and covertly toss it into his garden.

Seriously, the traps attract so many beetles that it outways the
much smaller number of beetles which are killed.

Gideon