hi we live in norhtern california about 1 hour south of san francisco
(zone 9b i think).
we would like to plant asian pears, apricots, parismons and avacado
trees, all dwarf types.

is it possible to care for asian pears, apricots, and grapes without
using chemicals?
if so, are there any websites you can point me to for more information?

our nursery seems to think that we may have proble with asian pears and
apricots if we don't treat them with pesticides.

we are also thinking of growing dwarf fig and tagerines in 15 gallon
pots. will the pots be big enough?



thank you in advance.

wrote in message
oups.com...

is it possible to care for asian pears, apricots, and grapes without
using chemicals? if so, are there any websites you can point me to for
more information?

our nursery seems to think that we may have proble with asian pears and
apricots if we don't treat them with pesticides.


Can't be done, until the advent of synthetic fertilizers and pesticides, it
was not possible to produce harvestable yields of fruits and vegetables....

The sarcasm should be noted. Obviously with out synthetic pesticides, you'll
have to accept a higher level of insect damage as being a fair trade. Plenty
of natural insect repellents and pesticides exist, such as caffeine,
nicotine, beneficial insects, etc. Google is your best friend.

http://www.google.com/search?q=organic+gardening

There is a plethora of sound information online.

-S

wrote:
hi we live in norhtern california about 1 hour south of san francisco
(zone 9b i think).
we would like to plant asian pears, apricots, parismons and avacado
trees, all dwarf types.

is it possible to care for asian pears, apricots, and grapes without
using chemicals?

I live in an entirely different part of the country, but my experience
has been that even with chemicals, it is hard to raise things like
apples on individual trees. Orchards will blast several acres with
pesticides but if you are only spraying an individual tree, pests are
lurking in surrounding vegetation. OTOH, I had no problem with peaches
and chestnuts even without spraying. I would listen to local nurseries
advice.

Years ago, I used to bicycle past an apple orchard and watched them
spraying. If you lived within a mile of them, you would not have to
spray, if you get my drift. I think a lot of organic produce is
protected by being within a pest free zone created by farmers using
pesticides.

Frank

Frank wrote:

I live in an entirely different part of the country, but my experience
has been that even with chemicals, it is hard to raise things like
apples on individual trees. Orchards will blast several acres with
pesticides but if you are only spraying an individual tree, pests are
lurking in surrounding vegetation. OTOH, I had no problem with peaches
and chestnuts even without spraying. I would listen to local nurseries
advice.


It is very much dependent on climate. In the West there are plenty of
abandoned orchards that continue to produce quality apple. In the
midwest, it is as you say. The semiarid climate virtually eliminates
all major apple pests. Even in Michigan, there are a number of fruits
that one can grow without pesticides, amongst them hardy kiwis,
chestnuts, persimmons, grapes and all berries.

To the OP: persimmon is very pest resistant, and probably grapes will
present no problems. Apricots are probable, though I think they may
need some chill, but I don't know about avocado or asian pear. If you
go for it, try to buy fruit trees that will crop through the season,
starting with mulberries and cherries in June and ending with citrus in
winter.

Frank wrote:

wrote:
hi we live in norhtern california about 1 hour south of san francisco
(zone 9b i think).
we would like to plant asian pears, apricots, parismons and avacado
trees, all dwarf types.

is it possible to care for asian pears, apricots, and grapes without
using chemicals?

I live in an entirely different part of the country, but my experience
has been that even with chemicals, it is hard to raise things like
apples on individual trees.

Well, that is not my experience here in the Midwest. If you spray on a
regular schedule (and I don't mean overspraying), you can control pests
and fungicides in a backyard orchard.

Orchards will blast several acres with
pesticides but if you are only spraying an individual tree, pests are
lurking in surrounding vegetation.

Yes, but the ones that are interested in your fruit are lurking around your
trees.
If you spray with a sticker material, that spray will eventually knock out
or greatly
reduce any potential attacks.

OTOH, I had no problem with peaches
and chestnuts even without spraying. I would listen to local nurseries
advice.

Peaches are less prone to insect attack, but not immune. The tree is also
subject to fungus attacks.



Years ago, I used to bicycle past an apple orchard and watched them
spraying. If you lived within a mile of them, you would not have to
spray, if you get my drift. I think a lot of organic produce is
protected by being within a pest free zone created by farmers using
pesticides.

Frank

On 23 Jul 2006 22:13:52 -0700, wrote:

hi we live in norhtern california about 1 hour south of san francisco
(zone 9b i think).
we would like to plant asian pears, apricots, parismons and avacado
trees, all dwarf types.

is it possible to care for asian pears, apricots, and grapes without
using chemicals?
if so, are there any websites you can point me to for more information?

our nursery seems to think that we may have proble with asian pears and
apricots if we don't treat them with pesticides.

we are also thinking of growing dwarf fig and tagerines in 15 gallon
pots. will the pots be big enough?



thank you in advance.

Of course it's possible.The problem is, or the challenge is you have
to select varieties which are proven performers in your area.
Depending on what you grow, chill hours becomes very important. I
have a peach tree called 'Dixieland' which has a very low chill hour
of 400. That means it must be below 45 degrees for at least 400 hours
in order for the tree to set fruit.

This is not the case for all fruits, but I gave an example of why
variety selection is the most important thing. There are many ways to
raise organic fruits. Do a search for a catalog called Garden's
Alive. They give excellent photos of diseases of fruits and the
organic remedy.

Jangchub wrote:

On 23 Jul 2006 22:13:52 -0700, wrote:

hi we live in norhtern california about 1 hour south of san francisco
(zone 9b i think).
we would like to plant asian pears, apricots, parismons and avacado
trees, all dwarf types.

is it possible to care for asian pears, apricots, and grapes without
using chemicals?
if so, are there any websites you can point me to for more information?

our nursery seems to think that we may have proble with asian pears and
apricots if we don't treat them with pesticides.

we are also thinking of growing dwarf fig and tagerines in 15 gallon
pots. will the pots be big enough?



thank you in advance.

Of course it's possible.The problem is, or the challenge is you have
to select varieties which are proven performers in your area.
Depending on what you grow, chill hours becomes very important. I
have a peach tree called 'Dixieland' which has a very low chill hour
of 400. That means it must be below 45 degrees for at least 400 hours
in order for the tree to set fruit.

This is not the case for all fruits, but I gave an example of why
variety selection is the most important thing. There are many ways to
raise organic fruits.

There is no such animal as an organic fruit! There are some varieties that
are inherently disease resistant. Unfortunately, they are not always the
best
tasting choice.

Do a search for a catalog called Garden's
Alive. They give excellent photos of diseases of fruits and the
organic remedy.

Some of their products are ok, but some is just a lot of hype. Many of their

'cures' are quite expensive. You pay a high price to go organic.

Sherwin D.

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 00:35:20 -0500, sherwindu
wrote:


There is no such animal as an organic fruit! There are some varieties that
are inherently disease resistant. Unfortunately, they are not always the
best
tasting choice.


Patently incorrect. I grow peaches organically and they are the most
mouth watering, perfect fruits around. The trouble with annual
production is that in Texas we may not get enough chill hours for
fruit. So, it's not a great idea to make a statement that no such
animal as an organic fruit. It's inaccurate.

Do a search for a catalog called Garden's
Alive. They give excellent photos of diseases of fruits and the
organic remedy.

Some of their products are ok, but some is just a lot of hype. Many of their

'cures' are quite expensive. You pay a high price to go organic.

Sherwin D.


I didn't say to buy any of them, but that there are great photos in
their catalog of diseased and pests associated with fruits. I also
don't know where you get the idea going organic is more expensive.
It's useless to debate, your mind is made up.

Jangchub wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 00:35:20 -0500, sherwindu
wrote:

There is no such animal as an organic fruit! There are some varieties that
are inherently disease resistant. Unfortunately, they are not always the
best
tasting choice.


Patently incorrect. I grow peaches organically and they are the most
mouth watering, perfect fruits around. The trouble with annual
production is that in Texas we may not get enough chill hours for
fruit. So, it's not a great idea to make a statement that no such
animal as an organic fruit. It's inaccurate.

What I should have said that there are organically grown fruits, but no organic
fruits.



Do a search for a catalog called Garden's
Alive. They give excellent photos of diseases of fruits and the
organic remedy.

Some of their products are ok, but some is just a lot of hype. Many of their

'cures' are quite expensive. You pay a high price to go organic.

Sherwin D.


I didn't say to buy any of them, but that there are great photos in
their catalog of diseased and pests associated with fruits. I also
don't know where you get the idea going organic is more expensive.
It's useless to debate, your mind is made up.

Have you checked the prices in Garden Alive's catalog for pheremone
lures. It would cost a fortune to cover anyone with more than just a
handfull of trees. If you take all those photos as the gospel, well I can't
help that. Commercially, it is also more expensive when you consider the
attrition rate of damaged fruit vs. the cost to grow it. Maybe that is why
the consumer pays inflated prices for organically grown fruit and vegetables
at the store.

Sherwin D.

On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 00:53:08 -0500, sherwindu
wrote:

What I should have said that there are organically grown fruits, but no organic
fruits.

Not sure what you're trying to say here.

Have you checked the prices in Garden Alive's catalog for pheremone
lures. It would cost a fortune to cover anyone with more than just a
handfull of trees. If you take all those photos as the gospel, well I can't
help that. Commercially, it is also more expensive when you consider the
attrition rate of damaged fruit vs. the cost to grow it. Maybe that is why
the consumer pays inflated prices for organically grown fruit and vegetables
at the store.

Sherwin D.


I don't buy anything other than Gnatrol from Gardens Alive and I do
that with a 20.00 off coupon. However, the photo's are accurate to
show the diseases of most backyard fruits.

Gallo Wine has been growing organic grapes for decades. The produce
at the store is tricky. Like, they sell organic bananas. I've never
known a reason to spray a banana plant, so they are all basically
organic.

I see organic produce and its priced about ten percent more than
conventionally grown produce.

I have had good success without using pesticides at all. 5 kinds of
apples I always get more good ones than my family can eat. Asian pears
do fine. The peaches that are resistant to leaf curl are the only ones
that have done well. Plums, cherries, grapes galore I wish something
would start eating them, always have way to many to pick. I suggest
just trying to grow everything that you want and see what does the best
in the long run remember some years one kind of fruit with do the best
and another year something else is the champ. Verity is the key to good
production.

Richard Reames
http://www.arborsmith.com

wrote:

hi we live in norhtern california about 1 hour south of san francisco
(zone 9b i think).
we would like to plant asian pears, apricots, parismons and avacado
trees, all dwarf types.

is it possible to care for asian pears, apricots, and grapes without
using chemicals?
if so, are there any websites you can point me to for more information?

Modern fruit varieties are bred to produce high quality commercial fruit
but are highly dependent on pesticides. Many years ago before Monsanto
and DuPont, people raised nice fruit by selecting varieties that were
disease and pest resistant. Today, these varieties (which are inferior
to todays varieties in most other ways) are called heirloom varieties
and are sought after by the organic gardening crowd. You have to cut
out the worms and ignore the sting marks and never expect to be able to
sell them, but they are quite edible. Here are some links:

Asian pears:

http://www.treesofantiquity.com/inde...&cPath=41_2_34
http://homeorchard.ucdavis.edu/plant_pear.pdf


Apricots:

http://www.treesofantiquity.com/inde...ex&cPath=41_10
http://www.ediblegarden.co.nz/cat-koanga-gardens.html
http://homeorchard.ucdavis.edu/plant_apricot.pdf


Grapes:

http://www.treesofantiquity.com/inde...ex&cPath=41_14
http://www.ediblegarden.co.nz/cat-koanga-gardens.html
http://www.planetnatural.com/site/xd...ng-grapes.html

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman

Stephen Henning wrote:

wrote:

hi we live in norhtern california about 1 hour south of san francisco
(zone 9b i think).
we would like to plant asian pears, apricots, parismons and avacado
trees, all dwarf types.

is it possible to care for asian pears, apricots, and grapes without
using chemicals?
if so, are there any websites you can point me to for more information?

Modern fruit varieties are bred to produce high quality commercial fruit
but are highly dependent on pesticides. Many years ago before Monsanto
and DuPont, people raised nice fruit by selecting varieties that were
disease and pest resistant.

Not true. People looked for the best tasting and sometimes the best
keepers.
The newer trend is to develop fruit that it is genetically resistant, like
the
William's Pride Apple. If you find a heirloom apple that is disease
resistant, that
is unusual and just an added bonus.

Today, these varieties (which are inferior
to todays varieties in most other ways) are called heirloom varieties
and are sought after by the organic gardening crowd.

Organic people would be better off going for the genetically resistant
fruit.
The real fruit enthusists have always grown heirlooms for their taste and
special characteristics like good for pies, cider, etc.

You have to cut
out the worms and ignore the sting marks and never expect to be able to
sell them, but they are quite edible.

You can keep the worms out with organic sprays of dormant oil, sticky
traps,
and the latest technique of bagging the fruit. I grow lots of heirlooms
this way
and they are nice and clean. I will resort to chemical sprays between the
dormant
oil and the bagging, but that is just a precautinary move, plus I want all
my fruit
to be clean.

Sherwin D.

Here are some links:

Asian pears:

http://www.treesofantiquity.com/inde...&cPath=41_2_34
http://homeorchard.ucdavis.edu/plant_pear.pdf

Apricots:

http://www.treesofantiquity.com/inde...ex&cPath=41_10
http://www.ediblegarden.co.nz/cat-koanga-gardens.html
http://homeorchard.ucdavis.edu/plant_apricot.pdf

Grapes:

http://www.treesofantiquity.com/inde...ex&cPath=41_14
http://www.ediblegarden.co.nz/cat-koanga-gardens.html
http://www.planetnatural.com/site/xd...ng-grapes.html

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman

sherwindu wrote:

Organic people would be better off going for the genetically resistant
fruit.

In case you haven't checked, genetically resistant fruit has the
pesticides built in genetically like permethrin, the neurotoxin that
occurs naturally in chrysanthemum flowers. In fact the genetic
varieties splice genes from plants such as chrysanthemum to the desired
plants.

So you can have you pesticides externally applied or internally
generated. Take your pick.

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman

This is not the case for commercially available tree fruits. All varieties that
exhibit resistance to insects, fungi or bacteria have been produced by standard
breeding techniques. If you know of an example that was not produced by
standard breeding please enlighten us.

--beeky

Stephen Henning wrote:

sherwindu wrote:

Organic people would be better off going for the genetically resistant
fruit.

In case you haven't checked, genetically resistant fruit has the
pesticides built in genetically like permethrin, the neurotoxin that
occurs naturally in chrysanthemum flowers. In fact the genetic
varieties splice genes from plants such as chrysanthemum to the desired
plants.

So you can have you pesticides externally applied or internally
generated. Take your pick.

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman