here in Wisconsin I grow asian pears, peaches, apricots, cherries, vine kiwi,
berries, grapes and figs without spray. I live in the city and am flanked by two
huge apple trees some ass planted in their back yards. thankfully (I have a koi
pond) they dont bother spraying the trees and the apples are inedible. It is
impossible to grow fruit without pesticides if neighbors have unattended fruit trees
that act as a breeding ground for pests. I hear down in Florida they are finally
getting the idea and cutting down people's unattended or diseased back yard fruit
trees. I do use dormant spray, and it looks like I am going to have to use some
fungicide on a peach that is infected. but what I do is treat a single tree, like
the cherry this spring. cleanliness is absolutely necessary, and making sure the
place where the stock is bought is clean so trees dont come in infected and spread
disease to the other trees too. Ingrid

zxcvbob wrote:

wrote:
hi we live in norhtern california about 1 hour south of san francisco
(zone 9b i think).
we would like to plant asian pears, apricots, parismons and avacado
trees, all dwarf types.

is it possible to care for asian pears, apricots, and grapes without
using chemicals?
if so, are there any websites you can point me to for more information?

our nursery seems to think that we may have proble with asian pears and
apricots if we don't treat them with pesticides.


It's no longer possible to grow perfect, insect-free apples without
using pesticides. But you can probably get close if your orchard
hygiene is impeccable and if you use traps for coddling moths and apple
maggots. A few bug stings or apple maggot tracks really don't hurt
anything in fresh apples that you plan to eat right away, but they ruin
the apples for storage.

Asian pears are pretty close to apples, but I don't recall my crazy
great-aunt having problems with insect damage to her Asian pears, and
she didn't spray anything.

You'll probably need to spray the grapes with something like Bordeaux
mixture for fungus. I think Bordeaux mixture (copper sulfate and slaked
lime) is allowed for organically grown fruits.

Best regards,
Bob



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Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 00:35:20 -0500, sherwindu
wrote:


There is no such animal as an organic fruit! There are some varieties that
are inherently disease resistant. Unfortunately, they are not always the
best
tasting choice.


Patently incorrect. I grow peaches organically and they are the most
mouth watering, perfect fruits around. The trouble with annual
production is that in Texas we may not get enough chill hours for
fruit. So, it's not a great idea to make a statement that no such
animal as an organic fruit. It's inaccurate.

Do a search for a catalog called Garden's
Alive. They give excellent photos of diseases of fruits and the
organic remedy.

Some of their products are ok, but some is just a lot of hype. Many of their

'cures' are quite expensive. You pay a high price to go organic.

Sherwin D.


I didn't say to buy any of them, but that there are great photos in
their catalog of diseased and pests associated with fruits. I also
don't know where you get the idea going organic is more expensive.
It's useless to debate, your mind is made up.

sherwindu wrote:

Organic people would be better off going for the genetically resistant
fruit.

In case you haven't checked, genetically resistant fruit has the
pesticides built in genetically like permethrin, the neurotoxin that
occurs naturally in chrysanthemum flowers. In fact the genetic
varieties splice genes from plants such as chrysanthemum to the desired
plants.

So you can have you pesticides externally applied or internally
generated. Take your pick.

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman

wrote:
I have been trying to do this for about 5 years in central NJ with minimal
success. I won't say it can't be done but it seems impossible from my
experience. For example.

Without some sort of fungicide most peaches and plums are lost to
fungal disease. Without pesticides most apples are extensivly scarred and

However, on the West Coast plums often make it without any pesticides.
Really, dry air cuts disease down dramatically.

This is not the case for commercially available tree fruits. All varieties that
exhibit resistance to insects, fungi or bacteria have been produced by standard
breeding techniques. If you know of an example that was not produced by
standard breeding please enlighten us.

--beeky

Stephen Henning wrote:

sherwindu wrote:

Organic people would be better off going for the genetically resistant
fruit.

In case you haven't checked, genetically resistant fruit has the
pesticides built in genetically like permethrin, the neurotoxin that
occurs naturally in chrysanthemum flowers. In fact the genetic
varieties splice genes from plants such as chrysanthemum to the desired
plants.

So you can have you pesticides externally applied or internally
generated. Take your pick.

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman

I wrote:
In case you haven't checked, genetically resistant fruit has the
pesticides built in genetically like permethrin, the neurotoxin that
occurs naturally in chrysanthemum flowers. In fact the genetic
varieties splice genes from plants such as chrysanthemum to the desired
plants.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
Not all disease resistant plants are this way. The technology you mentioned
is relatively new. There *are* plants which were simply selected because of
resistance, less or a proactive process than the one you're describing.

But these disease resistant plants have something that the others don't,
a chemical. Call it what you want, but it is either a preventative or
curative chemical. It is part of evolution. Plants which have genes to
produce a chemical that aids survival survive and the chemical with it.

wrote:

This is not the case for commercially available tree fruits. All varieties
that exhibit resistance to insects, fungi or bacteria have been produced by
standard breeding techniques. If you know of an example that was not
produced by standard breeding please enlighten us.

That is only true in the USA and other countries that are paranoid by
Genetically Engineered fruit. Examples:

papaya: http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/pubs/press/papaya.html

tomato:
http://newcrop.hort.purdue.edu/newcr...-1/tomato.html

banana: http://www.netlink.de/gen/Zeitung/970227b.htm

More in the works:
http://www.biotech.iastate.edu/biote...l#anchor257153

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman

"Stephen Henning" wrote in message
news
I wrote:
In case you haven't checked, genetically resistant fruit has the
pesticides built in genetically like permethrin, the neurotoxin that
occurs naturally in chrysanthemum flowers. In fact the genetic
varieties splice genes from plants such as chrysanthemum to the desired
plants.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
Not all disease resistant plants are this way. The technology you
mentioned
is relatively new. There *are* plants which were simply selected because
of
resistance, less or a proactive process than the one you're describing.

But these disease resistant plants have something that the others don't,
a chemical. Call it what you want, but it is either a preventative or
curative chemical. It is part of evolution. Plants which have genes to
produce a chemical that aids survival survive and the chemical with it.

Maybe we need to clarify and agree on definitions here. Example: Ever since
I began gardening in the early 1970s, there've been tomatoes designated as
resistant to verticillium wilt. Catalogs designate these as "VF". These
varieties of tomato were created by selecting those that seemed to have
natural resistance, and producing the seed on a large-scale basis. This is
absolutely NOT the same process as the one you're describing, which involves
creating plants which contain botanical compounds to fight certain problems.
I've read some horror stories about that method, as I'm sure you have.

wrote:

here in Wisconsin I grow asian pears, peaches, apricots, cherries, vine kiwi,
berries, grapes and figs without spray. I live in the city and am flanked by two
huge apple trees some ass planted in their back yards. thankfully (I have a koi
pond) they dont bother spraying the trees and the apples are inedible. It is
impossible to grow fruit without pesticides if neighbors have unattended fruit trees
that act as a breeding ground for pests. I hear down in Florida they are finally
getting the idea and cutting down people's unattended or diseased back yard fruit
trees.

Curious. Who determines if they are unattended? Do the owners have a say in this?
Diseased trees can sometimes be recovered. Sounds like a big invasion of personal
property.

Sherwin D.

I do use dormant spray, and it looks like I am going to have to use some
fungicide on a peach that is infected. but what I do is treat a single tree, like
the cherry this spring. cleanliness is absolutely necessary, and making sure the
place where the stock is bought is clean so trees dont come in infected and spread
disease to the other trees too. Ingrid

zxcvbob wrote:

Jangchub wrote:

On Tue, 25 Jul 2006 00:35:20 -0500, sherwindu
wrote:

There is no such animal as an organic fruit! There are some varieties that
are inherently disease resistant. Unfortunately, they are not always the
best
tasting choice.


Patently incorrect. I grow peaches organically and they are the most
mouth watering, perfect fruits around. The trouble with annual
production is that in Texas we may not get enough chill hours for
fruit. So, it's not a great idea to make a statement that no such
animal as an organic fruit. It's inaccurate.

What I should have said that there are organically grown fruits, but no organic
fruits.



Do a search for a catalog called Garden's
Alive. They give excellent photos of diseases of fruits and the
organic remedy.

Some of their products are ok, but some is just a lot of hype. Many of their

'cures' are quite expensive. You pay a high price to go organic.

Sherwin D.


I didn't say to buy any of them, but that there are great photos in
their catalog of diseased and pests associated with fruits. I also
don't know where you get the idea going organic is more expensive.
It's useless to debate, your mind is made up.

Have you checked the prices in Garden Alive's catalog for pheremone
lures. It would cost a fortune to cover anyone with more than just a
handfull of trees. If you take all those photos as the gospel, well I can't
help that. Commercially, it is also more expensive when you consider the
attrition rate of damaged fruit vs. the cost to grow it. Maybe that is why
the consumer pays inflated prices for organically grown fruit and vegetables
at the store.

Sherwin D.

Stephen Henning wrote:

sherwindu wrote:

Organic people would be better off going for the genetically resistant
fruit.

In case you haven't checked, genetically resistant fruit has the
pesticides built in genetically like permethrin, the neurotoxin that
occurs naturally in chrysanthemum flowers. In fact the genetic
varieties splice genes from plants such as chrysanthemum to the desired
plants.

I have not heard of such splicing of genes as you describe, at least not in
the pome fruits. There is no way I know of to splice chrysanthemum into
a pome fruit. Most of the disease resistant fruits currently available have
evolved due to DNA restructuring, and not gene splicing. The chrysanthemum
splicing has been done on potatoes and wheat, but not fruits.



So you can have you pesticides externally applied or internally
generated. Take your pick.

If they ever do come up with a 'built-in' pesticide fruit, there is no
guarantee
that it will be a good tasting option. I don't think it will be a simple
choice to
pick the fruit of your choice.

Sherwin D.



--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman

simy1 wrote:

wrote:
I have been trying to do this for about 5 years in central NJ with minimal
success. I won't say it can't be done but it seems impossible from my
experience. For example.

Without some sort of fungicide most peaches and plums are lost to
fungal disease. Without pesticides most apples are extensivly scarred and

However, on the West Coast plums often make it without any pesticides.
Really, dry air cuts disease down dramatically.

I can see dry air reducing the fungus problems, but what about the insects?
If you have none, you are truely blessed.

Sherwin D.


Sherwin D.

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...


simy1 wrote:

wrote:
I have been trying to do this for about 5 years in central NJ with
minimal
success. I won't say it can't be done but it seems impossible from my
experience. For example.

Without some sort of fungicide most peaches and plums are lost to
fungal disease. Without pesticides most apples are extensivly scarred
and

However, on the West Coast plums often make it without any pesticides.
Really, dry air cuts disease down dramatically.

I can see dry air reducing the fungus problems, but what about the
insects?
If you have none, you are truely blessed.

Sherwin D.

Maybe a nearby neighbor has something which interests the bugs more than his
own fruit trees.

On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 00:53:08 -0500, sherwindu
wrote:

What I should have said that there are organically grown fruits, but no organic
fruits.

Not sure what you're trying to say here.

Have you checked the prices in Garden Alive's catalog for pheremone
lures. It would cost a fortune to cover anyone with more than just a
handfull of trees. If you take all those photos as the gospel, well I can't
help that. Commercially, it is also more expensive when you consider the
attrition rate of damaged fruit vs. the cost to grow it. Maybe that is why
the consumer pays inflated prices for organically grown fruit and vegetables
at the store.

Sherwin D.


I don't buy anything other than Gnatrol from Gardens Alive and I do
that with a 20.00 off coupon. However, the photo's are accurate to
show the diseases of most backyard fruits.

Gallo Wine has been growing organic grapes for decades. The produce
at the store is tricky. Like, they sell organic bananas. I've never
known a reason to spray a banana plant, so they are all basically
organic.

I see organic produce and its priced about ten percent more than
conventionally grown produce.

On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 01:15:30 -0500, sherwindu
wrote:



I can see dry air reducing the fungus problems, but what about the insects?
If you have none, you are truely blessed.


People who are reliant on chemically produced fruit set up conditions
in the soil to be unable to support healthy fungi and other organisms
in the soil which contribute to fruit production.

The way you grow organic fruit, commercial production included is to
support healthy soils, use of certified organic fertilizer, addition
of compost each year, good soil aeration, proper hygiene after the
production season is over, not leaving diseased fruits laying around,
etc. There is nothing anyone can do about rot on peaches, organic OR
synthetic. There's a lot more to it than you are willing to learn.

"Jangchub" wrote in message
...

I've never
known a reason to spray a banana plant, so they are all basically
organic.

¿Que?