hi we live in norhtern california about 1 hour south of san francisco
(zone 9b i think).
we would like to plant asian pears, apricots, parismons and avacado
trees, all dwarf types.

is it possible to care for asian pears, apricots, and grapes without
using chemicals?
if so, are there any websites you can point me to for more information?

our nursery seems to think that we may have proble with asian pears and
apricots if we don't treat them with pesticides.

we are also thinking of growing dwarf fig and tagerines in 15 gallon
pots. will the pots be big enough?



thank you in advance.

wrote in message
oups.com...

is it possible to care for asian pears, apricots, and grapes without
using chemicals? if so, are there any websites you can point me to for
more information?

our nursery seems to think that we may have proble with asian pears and
apricots if we don't treat them with pesticides.


Can't be done, until the advent of synthetic fertilizers and pesticides, it
was not possible to produce harvestable yields of fruits and vegetables....

The sarcasm should be noted. Obviously with out synthetic pesticides, you'll
have to accept a higher level of insect damage as being a fair trade. Plenty
of natural insect repellents and pesticides exist, such as caffeine,
nicotine, beneficial insects, etc. Google is your best friend.

http://www.google.com/search?q=organic+gardening

There is a plethora of sound information online.

-S

wrote:
hi we live in norhtern california about 1 hour south of san francisco
(zone 9b i think).
we would like to plant asian pears, apricots, parismons and avacado
trees, all dwarf types.

is it possible to care for asian pears, apricots, and grapes without
using chemicals?

I live in an entirely different part of the country, but my experience
has been that even with chemicals, it is hard to raise things like
apples on individual trees. Orchards will blast several acres with
pesticides but if you are only spraying an individual tree, pests are
lurking in surrounding vegetation. OTOH, I had no problem with peaches
and chestnuts even without spraying. I would listen to local nurseries
advice.

Years ago, I used to bicycle past an apple orchard and watched them
spraying. If you lived within a mile of them, you would not have to
spray, if you get my drift. I think a lot of organic produce is
protected by being within a pest free zone created by farmers using
pesticides.

Frank

On 23 Jul 2006 22:13:52 -0700, wrote:

hi we live in norhtern california about 1 hour south of san francisco
(zone 9b i think).
we would like to plant asian pears, apricots, parismons and avacado
trees, all dwarf types.

is it possible to care for asian pears, apricots, and grapes without
using chemicals?
if so, are there any websites you can point me to for more information?

our nursery seems to think that we may have proble with asian pears and
apricots if we don't treat them with pesticides.

we are also thinking of growing dwarf fig and tagerines in 15 gallon
pots. will the pots be big enough?



thank you in advance.

Of course it's possible.The problem is, or the challenge is you have
to select varieties which are proven performers in your area.
Depending on what you grow, chill hours becomes very important. I
have a peach tree called 'Dixieland' which has a very low chill hour
of 400. That means it must be below 45 degrees for at least 400 hours
in order for the tree to set fruit.

This is not the case for all fruits, but I gave an example of why
variety selection is the most important thing. There are many ways to
raise organic fruits. Do a search for a catalog called Garden's
Alive. They give excellent photos of diseases of fruits and the
organic remedy.

wrote:

hi we live in norhtern california about 1 hour south of san francisco
(zone 9b i think).
we would like to plant asian pears, apricots, parismons and avacado
trees, all dwarf types.

is it possible to care for asian pears, apricots, and grapes without
using chemicals?
if so, are there any websites you can point me to for more information?

Modern fruit varieties are bred to produce high quality commercial fruit
but are highly dependent on pesticides. Many years ago before Monsanto
and DuPont, people raised nice fruit by selecting varieties that were
disease and pest resistant. Today, these varieties (which are inferior
to todays varieties in most other ways) are called heirloom varieties
and are sought after by the organic gardening crowd. You have to cut
out the worms and ignore the sting marks and never expect to be able to
sell them, but they are quite edible. Here are some links:

Asian pears:

http://www.treesofantiquity.com/inde...&cPath=41_2_34
http://homeorchard.ucdavis.edu/plant_pear.pdf


Apricots:

http://www.treesofantiquity.com/inde...ex&cPath=41_10
http://www.ediblegarden.co.nz/cat-koanga-gardens.html
http://homeorchard.ucdavis.edu/plant_apricot.pdf


Grapes:

http://www.treesofantiquity.com/inde...ex&cPath=41_14
http://www.ediblegarden.co.nz/cat-koanga-gardens.html
http://www.planetnatural.com/site/xd...ng-grapes.html

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman

Frank wrote:

I live in an entirely different part of the country, but my experience
has been that even with chemicals, it is hard to raise things like
apples on individual trees. Orchards will blast several acres with
pesticides but if you are only spraying an individual tree, pests are
lurking in surrounding vegetation. OTOH, I had no problem with peaches
and chestnuts even without spraying. I would listen to local nurseries
advice.


It is very much dependent on climate. In the West there are plenty of
abandoned orchards that continue to produce quality apple. In the
midwest, it is as you say. The semiarid climate virtually eliminates
all major apple pests. Even in Michigan, there are a number of fruits
that one can grow without pesticides, amongst them hardy kiwis,
chestnuts, persimmons, grapes and all berries.

To the OP: persimmon is very pest resistant, and probably grapes will
present no problems. Apricots are probable, though I think they may
need some chill, but I don't know about avocado or asian pear. If you
go for it, try to buy fruit trees that will crop through the season,
starting with mulberries and cherries in June and ending with citrus in
winter.

I have been trying to do this for about 5 years in central NJ with minimal
success. I won't say it can't be done but it seems impossible from my
experience. For example.

Without some sort of fungicide most peaches and plums are lost to
fungal disease. Without pesticides most apples are extensivly scarred and
mishapen. This year I tried 'Surround at Home' a sprayable form of kaolin,
a type of clay. This stuff just coats leaves and fruit with a white,
powdery substance and does reduce many insects. However, it does not
appear to have any effect on birds and squirrels who are busy eating
ripening plums and peaches.

I am gradually moving to fruits that seem to have low pest/disease
problems. I have had excellent crops of blackberries and paw paws with no
treatment of any kind. Birds and squirrels are still a problem but they do
not seem to be as attracted to these fruits as they are to 'conventional'
fruits.

--beeky

wrote:

hi we live in norhtern california about 1 hour south of san francisco
(zone 9b i think).
we would like to plant asian pears, apricots, parismons and avacado
trees, all dwarf types.

is it possible to care for asian pears, apricots, and grapes without
using chemicals?
if so, are there any websites you can point me to for more information?

our nursery seems to think that we may have proble with asian pears and
apricots if we don't treat them with pesticides.

we are also thinking of growing dwarf fig and tagerines in 15 gallon
pots. will the pots be big enough?

thank you in advance.

wrote:
hi we live in norhtern california about 1 hour south of san francisco
(zone 9b i think).
we would like to plant asian pears, apricots, parismons and avacado
trees, all dwarf types.

is it possible to care for asian pears, apricots, and grapes without
using chemicals?
if so, are there any websites you can point me to for more information?

our nursery seems to think that we may have proble with asian pears and
apricots if we don't treat them with pesticides.


It's no longer possible to grow perfect, insect-free apples without
using pesticides. But you can probably get close if your orchard
hygiene is impeccable and if you use traps for coddling moths and apple
maggots. A few bug stings or apple maggot tracks really don't hurt
anything in fresh apples that you plan to eat right away, but they ruin
the apples for storage.

Asian pears are pretty close to apples, but I don't recall my crazy
great-aunt having problems with insect damage to her Asian pears, and
she didn't spray anything.

You'll probably need to spray the grapes with something like Bordeaux
mixture for fungus. I think Bordeaux mixture (copper sulfate and slaked
lime) is allowed for organically grown fruits.

Best regards,
Bob

wrote in message
oups.com...
hi we live in norhtern california about 1 hour south of san francisco
(zone 9b i think).
we would like to plant asian pears, apricots, parismons and avacado
trees, all dwarf types.

is it possible to care for asian pears, apricots, and grapes without
using chemicals?
if so, are there any websites you can point me to for more information?

our nursery seems to think that we may have proble with asian pears and
apricots if we don't treat them with pesticides.

we are also thinking of growing dwarf fig and tagerines in 15 gallon
pots. will the pots be big enough?



thank you in advance.


Some grapes suffer from little or no pest or disease damage, but they may
not be the ones you like to eat. For instance, seedless green grapes tend to
be hopelessly dependent on chemicals. Contact your local cooperative
extension, and be persistent until you find someone to speak with who REALLY
knows the best varieties to grow in your area. The moment someone pauses and
seems to be guessing, ask to speak to someone else.

Hi,

It may be possible with pears, as they do not have as many pest problems as
apples and to some extent stone fruits. Much of this depends on your location
and
what pests abound there. You might make some explorative trips to nearby fruit
farms and find out what problem, if any, they are having. There are some good
organic sprays like dormant oil, but if you get a bad infestation of insects or
fungus,
you may have to call out the 'big guns' to fix the problem. There is much on
the web
about organic sprays, but I don't think these sprays represent a complete
solution.

Sherwin D.

wrote:

hi we live in norhtern california about 1 hour south of san francisco
(zone 9b i think).
we would like to plant asian pears, apricots, parismons and avacado
trees, all dwarf types.

is it possible to care for asian pears, apricots, and grapes without
using chemicals?
if so, are there any websites you can point me to for more information?

our nursery seems to think that we may have proble with asian pears and
apricots if we don't treat them with pesticides.

we are also thinking of growing dwarf fig and tagerines in 15 gallon
pots. will the pots be big enough?

thank you in advance.

Frank wrote:

wrote:
hi we live in norhtern california about 1 hour south of san francisco
(zone 9b i think).
we would like to plant asian pears, apricots, parismons and avacado
trees, all dwarf types.

is it possible to care for asian pears, apricots, and grapes without
using chemicals?

I live in an entirely different part of the country, but my experience
has been that even with chemicals, it is hard to raise things like
apples on individual trees.

Well, that is not my experience here in the Midwest. If you spray on a
regular schedule (and I don't mean overspraying), you can control pests
and fungicides in a backyard orchard.

Orchards will blast several acres with
pesticides but if you are only spraying an individual tree, pests are
lurking in surrounding vegetation.

Yes, but the ones that are interested in your fruit are lurking around your
trees.
If you spray with a sticker material, that spray will eventually knock out
or greatly
reduce any potential attacks.

OTOH, I had no problem with peaches
and chestnuts even without spraying. I would listen to local nurseries
advice.

Peaches are less prone to insect attack, but not immune. The tree is also
subject to fungus attacks.



Years ago, I used to bicycle past an apple orchard and watched them
spraying. If you lived within a mile of them, you would not have to
spray, if you get my drift. I think a lot of organic produce is
protected by being within a pest free zone created by farmers using
pesticides.

Frank

Jangchub wrote:

On 23 Jul 2006 22:13:52 -0700, wrote:

hi we live in norhtern california about 1 hour south of san francisco
(zone 9b i think).
we would like to plant asian pears, apricots, parismons and avacado
trees, all dwarf types.

is it possible to care for asian pears, apricots, and grapes without
using chemicals?
if so, are there any websites you can point me to for more information?

our nursery seems to think that we may have proble with asian pears and
apricots if we don't treat them with pesticides.

we are also thinking of growing dwarf fig and tagerines in 15 gallon
pots. will the pots be big enough?



thank you in advance.

Of course it's possible.The problem is, or the challenge is you have
to select varieties which are proven performers in your area.
Depending on what you grow, chill hours becomes very important. I
have a peach tree called 'Dixieland' which has a very low chill hour
of 400. That means it must be below 45 degrees for at least 400 hours
in order for the tree to set fruit.

This is not the case for all fruits, but I gave an example of why
variety selection is the most important thing. There are many ways to
raise organic fruits.

There is no such animal as an organic fruit! There are some varieties that
are inherently disease resistant. Unfortunately, they are not always the
best
tasting choice.

Do a search for a catalog called Garden's
Alive. They give excellent photos of diseases of fruits and the
organic remedy.

Some of their products are ok, but some is just a lot of hype. Many of their

'cures' are quite expensive. You pay a high price to go organic.

Sherwin D.

Stephen Henning wrote:

wrote:

hi we live in norhtern california about 1 hour south of san francisco
(zone 9b i think).
we would like to plant asian pears, apricots, parismons and avacado
trees, all dwarf types.

is it possible to care for asian pears, apricots, and grapes without
using chemicals?
if so, are there any websites you can point me to for more information?

Modern fruit varieties are bred to produce high quality commercial fruit
but are highly dependent on pesticides. Many years ago before Monsanto
and DuPont, people raised nice fruit by selecting varieties that were
disease and pest resistant.

Not true. People looked for the best tasting and sometimes the best
keepers.
The newer trend is to develop fruit that it is genetically resistant, like
the
William's Pride Apple. If you find a heirloom apple that is disease
resistant, that
is unusual and just an added bonus.

Today, these varieties (which are inferior
to todays varieties in most other ways) are called heirloom varieties
and are sought after by the organic gardening crowd.

Organic people would be better off going for the genetically resistant
fruit.
The real fruit enthusists have always grown heirlooms for their taste and
special characteristics like good for pies, cider, etc.

You have to cut
out the worms and ignore the sting marks and never expect to be able to
sell them, but they are quite edible.

You can keep the worms out with organic sprays of dormant oil, sticky
traps,
and the latest technique of bagging the fruit. I grow lots of heirlooms
this way
and they are nice and clean. I will resort to chemical sprays between the
dormant
oil and the bagging, but that is just a precautinary move, plus I want all
my fruit
to be clean.

Sherwin D.

Here are some links:

Asian pears:

http://www.treesofantiquity.com/inde...&cPath=41_2_34
http://homeorchard.ucdavis.edu/plant_pear.pdf

Apricots:

http://www.treesofantiquity.com/inde...ex&cPath=41_10
http://www.ediblegarden.co.nz/cat-koanga-gardens.html
http://homeorchard.ucdavis.edu/plant_apricot.pdf

Grapes:

http://www.treesofantiquity.com/inde...ex&cPath=41_14
http://www.ediblegarden.co.nz/cat-koanga-gardens.html
http://www.planetnatural.com/site/xd...ng-grapes.html

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman

wrote:

I have been trying to do this for about 5 years in central NJ with minimal
success. I won't say it can't be done but it seems impossible from my
experience. For example.

Without some sort of fungicide most peaches and plums are lost to
fungal disease. Without pesticides most apples are extensivly scarred and
mishapen. This year I tried 'Surround at Home' a sprayable form of kaolin,
a type of clay. This stuff just coats leaves and fruit with a white,
powdery substance and does reduce many insects. However, it does not
appear to have any effect on birds and squirrels who are busy eating
ripening plums and peaches.

Surround is a messy and somewhat ineffective. Try my technique of bagging
fruits with sandwich zip locks, being sure to cut a slit at the bottom for
rain
water to drain out.



I am gradually moving to fruits that seem to have low pest/disease
problems. I have had excellent crops of blackberries and paw paws

Paw Paws are quite unique in the plant world in that they have almost no
pest problems. In fact, they only insects that go near them are flies to do
the pollination.

Sherwin D.

with no
treatment of any kind. Birds and squirrels are still a problem but they do
not seem to be as attracted to these fruits as they are to 'conventional'
fruits.

--beeky

wrote:

hi we live in norhtern california about 1 hour south of san francisco
(zone 9b i think).
we would like to plant asian pears, apricots, parismons and avacado
trees, all dwarf types.

is it possible to care for asian pears, apricots, and grapes without
using chemicals?
if so, are there any websites you can point me to for more information?

our nursery seems to think that we may have proble with asian pears and
apricots if we don't treat them with pesticides.

we are also thinking of growing dwarf fig and tagerines in 15 gallon
pots. will the pots be big enough?

thank you in advance.

zxcvbob wrote:

wrote:
hi we live in norhtern california about 1 hour south of san francisco
(zone 9b i think).
we would like to plant asian pears, apricots, parismons and avacado
trees, all dwarf types.

is it possible to care for asian pears, apricots, and grapes without
using chemicals?
if so, are there any websites you can point me to for more information?

our nursery seems to think that we may have proble with asian pears and
apricots if we don't treat them with pesticides.

It's no longer possible to grow perfect, insect-free apples without
using pesticides.

Never was.

But you can probably get close if your orchard
hygiene is impeccable and if you use traps for coddling moths and apple
maggots.

Depending on the degree of infestation, traps are expensive and in my
experience
do not do a complete job.

A few bug stings or apple maggot tracks really don't hurt
anything in fresh apples that you plan to eat right away, but they ruin
the apples for storage.

I'm not sure what kind of apple maggots you have, but when I pick an apple
with
a maggot in it, it is obvious from the destruction inside that this apple
is a 'tosser'.



Asian pears are pretty close to apples, but I don't recall my crazy
great-aunt having problems with insect damage to her Asian pears, and
she didn't spray anything.

You'll probably need to spray the grapes with something like Bordeaux
mixture for fungus. I think Bordeaux mixture (copper sulfate and slaked
lime) is allowed for organically grown fruits.

Best regards,
Bob