"Jen" wrote in message
...


When babies start walking and investigating everything in the house, most
people put safety locks on cabinets containing anything that could hurt a
baby. Assuming the home did NOT have these safety locks in place before
the baby, would you agree that their appearance is related to the
presence of the new baby?


Not the babies fault if there isn't.

The point is this, Jen: The parent installs the locks because they address
one of the requirements for being a good parent: Keeping the baby from harm.
Therefore, the parent's behavior has changed because of the presence of the
baby.

The dog owner's behavior changes because of the dog, too. The dog needs
exercise. The dog needs "bathrooms". If the dog didn't exist, the problem
with their waste products would not exist.

Now, before you respond as I know you want to, consider this: All urban and
suburban areas have laws regarding what types of animals we can have on our
property. Why?



This discussion comes up now and
then in rec.gardens. Nothing is ever resolved. Have you actually
asked this person not to allow their dog to pee on your plants? If
so, what did that person say?

One obeyed, and remained friendly. Two said that the first X feet of
property belongs to the public, which is not true (according to our town
justice), and continued to argue. All three were asked politely, in the
exact same way.


So why are you blaming dog owners. Why not just blame this "person"?

Because of an erroneous group of words: "I'm a good dog owner". Even the
"good" ones walk around causing problems. We have a couple of strays here.
Guess where they sniff around to take a dump? Exactly where the "good" dog
owners cleaned up after their pets. So, the "good" people are setting up
their neighbors for more annoyances.




When these little inconveniences prop up for me I think about the
thousand people who just died all over the world from either
starvation, not a drop of water, or HIV AIDS. I think of the child in
Africa who dies alone at the age of five and a huge vulture now has
some food. There are so many more important things in the world and
locally to put energy into.


You could use this logic to justify looking the other way for almost any
kind of crime. I've got a friend who could remove a picture window from
your house, intact and undamaged, in under 1/2 hour. Would that be OK
with you? After all, it's not assault or indecent exposure, and it's
certainly not a bad as a child starving in Africa. I just like your
window and I feel like having it, purely on a whim. You wouldn't call the
police, right?

A dog doesn't purposely pee on your garden because it annoys you. It
doesn't even consciously think about it.

Jen


Does the dog owner leave the house with the dog intentionally, or is the dog
owner somehow unaware of his/her actions? I think that qualifies as
dementia.

On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 03:52:38 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

I'm thinking of hiring a witch with some bad mojo to take care of this. I'm
envisioning dogs being pecked to death by birds, like in the Alfred
Hitchcock movie. :-)


Witches don't DO bad mojo. That's a myth. They'd certainly never do
that to an animal. I know you're joking, but all one has to watch is
any of those animal cop shows to see clearly how animals are so abused
it tears your heart out.

It's never the fault of the animal.

On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 12:56:43 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:


I'm not a troll. I've been gardening for 35 years, and I contribute useful
information. But, are there no subjects about which you feel strongly? If
you're asked about them, do you respond with anything less than total
honesty?


I don't think you're a troll, but I think you have some issues to work
out. We all have them. Everyone has their sacred cow, so to speak
and your front plants seem to be yours.

I choose not to have destructive thoughts any more. I fall short most
of the time, but I aspire toward that aim. The only one who suffers
from hating is me.ds

"Jangchub" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 12:56:43 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:


I'm not a troll. I've been gardening for 35 years, and I contribute useful
information. But, are there no subjects about which you feel strongly? If
you're asked about them, do you respond with anything less than total
honesty?


I don't think you're a troll, but I think you have some issues to work
out. We all have them. Everyone has their sacred cow, so to speak
and your front plants seem to be yours.

I choose not to have destructive thoughts any more. I fall short most
of the time, but I aspire toward that aim. The only one who suffers
from hating is me.ds


I think plants are vastly superior to people and dogs in every possible way,
so I guess that's why I don't give dog-people any slack whatsoever. I will
say that I have met exactly two dogs in my entire life who I considered to
be honorable. Just two.

"Jangchub" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 03:52:38 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

I'm thinking of hiring a witch with some bad mojo to take care of this.
I'm
envisioning dogs being pecked to death by birds, like in the Alfred
Hitchcock movie. :-)


Witches don't DO bad mojo. That's a myth. They'd certainly never do
that to an animal. I know you're joking, but all one has to watch is
any of those animal cop shows to see clearly how animals are so abused
it tears your heart out.

It's never the fault of the animal.


It's the fault of the people who choose to *have* animals in places they
don't belong. If you lived in a neighborhood of 1/8th acre lots and your
neighbor came home from somewhere with a dozen hogs as pets, this point
would be clearly illustrated.

"Cearbhaill" wrote in message
...

"FragileWarrior" wrote in message

All opinions and experiences welcome.



It might depend on what type of grass you have.

We have St. Augustine, and when we removed our entire front lawn we dug it
all up. A sodcutter would be great, but we did it the old fashioned way
with a flat shovel and a wheelbarrow. We put down two layers of
"guaranteed" weedcloth, and several inches of mulch on top of that, and I
still have to weed it by hand.
With mint I would think it would take over the area fairly rapidly,
though.

Here's what we ended up with
http://www.cearbhaill.com/DSC00219.JPG

I get this at above url.

You are not authorized to view this page
You do not have permission to view this directory or page using the
credentials that you supplied.



Good luck.


--
Toni
South Florida USA
USDA Zone 10
http://www.cearbhaill.com

On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 14:06:12 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:


It's the fault of the people who choose to *have* animals in places they
don't belong. If you lived in a neighborhood of 1/8th acre lots and your
neighbor came home from somewhere with a dozen hogs as pets, this point
would be clearly illustrated.

Look, I watch the Dog Whisper every week. It's always the fault of
the dogs owner. Why would anyone buy a boarder collie if they live in
the city? The poor dog needs a job and is bred to do the job. So
when the dog tries to round up the family, children, snapping at their
ankles, they bring the poor thing to the pound. So, the dog is dead
because anyone knowing anything would never buy a border collie in the
city.

People are very ignorant. My point is, so am I in certain areas.
It's my job to educate myself on my own mind. We can go around and
around, but you know damn well if someone came home with a dozen hogs
(I adore pigs) the deed restrictions set up by the city would prevent
that from happening in city limits. So, c'mon.

On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 14:06:11 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

I think plants are vastly superior to people and dogs in every possible way,
so I guess that's why I don't give dog-people any slack whatsoever. I will
say that I have met exactly two dogs in my entire life who I considered to
be honorable. Just two.


I used to feel that way. I hated everyone, but that didn't include
animals. I always loved all animals. I still do. One day I realized
I hated everyone because I had problems with anti-social,
inappropriate behavior. I'm not accusing you of similar, but grist
for the mill.

Now, I regard people as having the highest form of life, though there
are people who abuse animals, let their dogs pee on plants, etc. They
may not be good people, but I too was anti-social at one time. I feel
for them because they are suffering for no reason. All I'm saying is
to really look at it. If you disagree with my hypothesis, there
really isn't more to discuss. The philosophy of this situation is all
I can discuss. We've already gone over and over with the actual issue
of the dog peeing.

"Jangchub" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 14:06:12 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:


It's the fault of the people who choose to *have* animals in places they
don't belong. If you lived in a neighborhood of 1/8th acre lots and your
neighbor came home from somewhere with a dozen hogs as pets, this point
would be clearly illustrated.

Look, I watch the Dog Whisper every week. It's always the fault of
the dogs owner. Why would anyone buy a boarder collie if they live in
the city? The poor dog needs a job and is bred to do the job.

This is true. People who want a border collie should first be required to
meet with someone knowledgable about the breed. They should have to sit
through a video of these dogs doing their thing, and be asked a dozen times
"Is this what you want, 24x7, 365 days a year?"

A relative on my wife's side had a border collie. She called its behavior
"exuberant". One day, we went to this woman's home for dinner. I came
straight from work, in a business suit. Her dog leapt onto the jacket, got
its claws caught in the outer pocket, fell, and tore the entire left panel
off the jacket. Too bad it was a Hickey-Freeman suit. It cost the woman some
major money to replace the jacket. But, as the dog came tearing through the
house toward us, she said "Oh look how happy she is to see you!"

Dumb.

"Jangchub" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 14:06:11 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

I think plants are vastly superior to people and dogs in every possible
way,
so I guess that's why I don't give dog-people any slack whatsoever. I will
say that I have met exactly two dogs in my entire life who I considered to
be honorable. Just two.


I used to feel that way. I hated everyone, but that didn't include
animals. I always loved all animals. I still do. One day I realized
I hated everyone because I had problems with anti-social,
inappropriate behavior. I'm not accusing you of similar, but grist
for the mill.

Now, I regard people as having the highest form of life, though there
are people who abuse animals, let their dogs pee on plants, etc. They
may not be good people, but I too was anti-social at one time. I feel
for them because they are suffering for no reason. All I'm saying is
to really look at it. If you disagree with my hypothesis, there
really isn't more to discuss. The philosophy of this situation is all
I can discuss. We've already gone over and over with the actual issue
of the dog peeing.


When's the last time a plant started a lawn mower at 7:00 AM on a Saturday,
awakening all the neighbors?

"JohnS" wrote in message ...

Here's what we ended up with
http://www.cearbhaill.com/DSC00219.JPG

I get this at above url.

You are not authorized to view this page
You do not have permission to view this directory or page using the
credentials that you supplied.



Bad timing- my websites are in the process of being moved to a new server
today.
Sorry for the time wasted!


--
Toni
South Florida USA
USDA Zone 10
http://www.cearbhaill.com

On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 16:05:39 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:


This is true. People who want a border collie should first be required to
meet with someone knowledgable about the breed. They should have to sit
through a video of these dogs doing their thing, and be asked a dozen times
"Is this what you want, 24x7, 365 days a year?"

A relative on my wife's side had a border collie. She called its behavior
"exuberant". One day, we went to this woman's home for dinner. I came
straight from work, in a business suit. Her dog leapt onto the jacket, got
its claws caught in the outer pocket, fell, and tore the entire left panel
off the jacket. Too bad it was a Hickey-Freeman suit. It cost the woman some
major money to replace the jacket. But, as the dog came tearing through the
house toward us, she said "Oh look how happy she is to see you!"

Dumb.


This is why I am cloistered away in my house most of the time. It
cuts down on the amount of aggrivation I have. I limit my aggrivation
to people who actually matter so I can work on my mind to quiet that
part of me down.

My sister in law bought a Veeshla (it is misspelled I'm lazy) and the
dog is a completely hyper active ping pong ball. She jumps on
everyone and behaves like a nutcase.

My SIL went on vacation and I volunteered to watch the dog for two
weeks and not one time did this dog act like a nutcase. Obviously it
was the owner who has the negative energy the dog reacts to. Now SIL
is divorced and the dog is locked in a room a lot of the time and she
hates the dog. I offered to take her, but she said her kids couldn't
live without her. Huh? IT'S A DOG! So torture the poor animal.
Yeah, that's nice.

"Jangchub" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 16:05:39 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:


This is true. People who want a border collie should first be required to
meet with someone knowledgable about the breed. They should have to sit
through a video of these dogs doing their thing, and be asked a dozen
times
"Is this what you want, 24x7, 365 days a year?"

A relative on my wife's side had a border collie. She called its behavior
"exuberant". One day, we went to this woman's home for dinner. I came
straight from work, in a business suit. Her dog leapt onto the jacket, got
its claws caught in the outer pocket, fell, and tore the entire left panel
off the jacket. Too bad it was a Hickey-Freeman suit. It cost the woman
some
major money to replace the jacket. But, as the dog came tearing through
the
house toward us, she said "Oh look how happy she is to see you!"

Dumb.


This is why I am cloistered away in my house most of the time. It
cuts down on the amount of aggrivation I have. I limit my aggrivation
to people who actually matter so I can work on my mind to quiet that
part of me down.

My sister in law bought a Veeshla (it is misspelled I'm lazy) and the
dog is a completely hyper active ping pong ball. She jumps on
everyone and behaves like a nutcase.

My SIL went on vacation and I volunteered to watch the dog for two
weeks and not one time did this dog act like a nutcase. Obviously it
was the owner who has the negative energy the dog reacts to. Now SIL
is divorced and the dog is locked in a room a lot of the time and she
hates the dog. I offered to take her, but she said her kids couldn't
live without her. Huh? IT'S A DOG! So torture the poor animal.
Yeah, that's nice.


I wonder sometimes if some people get dogs because they think it'll occupy
their kids. This way, they don't have to.

On Thu, 01 Mar 2007 20:50:07 GMT, "JoeSpareBedroom"
wrote:

This is why I am cloistered away in my house most of the time. It
cuts down on the amount of aggrivation I have. I limit my aggrivation
to people who actually matter so I can work on my mind to quiet that
part of me down.

My sister in law bought a Veeshla (it is misspelled I'm lazy) and the
dog is a completely hyper active ping pong ball. She jumps on
everyone and behaves like a nutcase.

My SIL went on vacation and I volunteered to watch the dog for two
weeks and not one time did this dog act like a nutcase. Obviously it
was the owner who has the negative energy the dog reacts to. Now SIL
is divorced and the dog is locked in a room a lot of the time and she
hates the dog. I offered to take her, but she said her kids couldn't
live without her. Huh? IT'S A DOG! So torture the poor animal.
Yeah, that's nice.


I wonder sometimes if some people get dogs because they think it'll occupy
their kids. This way, they don't have to.


I don't think in this case that is true, but I will say they got this
particular breed because it was some sort of status shit. The puppy
cost them 1500 dollars because she was sired by some big poobah show
dog. Clearly, the reason NOT to buy a dog. I feel so bad for this
poor thing, but we now have a parrot and that breed is a hunting dog
who points at birds and she is lightening fast like a greyhound!

Feh.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Jen" wrote in message
...


When babies start walking and investigating everything in the house,
most people put safety locks on cabinets containing anything that could
hurt a baby. Assuming the home did NOT have these safety locks in place
before the baby, would you agree that their appearance is related to the
presence of the new baby?


Not the babies fault if there isn't.

The point is this, Jen: The parent installs the locks because they address
one of the requirements for being a good parent: Keeping the baby from
harm. Therefore, the parent's behavior has changed because of the presence
of the baby.

The dog owner's behavior changes because of the dog, too. The dog needs
exercise. The dog needs "bathrooms". If the dog didn't exist, the problem
with their waste products would not exist.

Now, before you respond as I know you want to, consider this: All urban
and suburban areas have laws regarding what types of animals we can have
on our property. Why?



This discussion comes up now and
then in rec.gardens. Nothing is ever resolved. Have you actually
asked this person not to allow their dog to pee on your plants? If
so, what did that person say?

One obeyed, and remained friendly. Two said that the first X feet of
property belongs to the public, which is not true (according to our town
justice), and continued to argue. All three were asked politely, in the
exact same way.


So why are you blaming dog owners. Why not just blame this "person"?

Because of an erroneous group of words: "I'm a good dog owner". Even the
"good" ones walk around causing problems. We have a couple of strays here.
Guess where they sniff around to take a dump? Exactly where the "good" dog
owners cleaned up after their pets. So, the "good" people are setting up
their neighbors for more annoyances.




When these little inconveniences prop up for me I think about the
thousand people who just died all over the world from either
starvation, not a drop of water, or HIV AIDS. I think of the child in
Africa who dies alone at the age of five and a huge vulture now has
some food. There are so many more important things in the world and
locally to put energy into.


You could use this logic to justify looking the other way for almost any
kind of crime. I've got a friend who could remove a picture window from
your house, intact and undamaged, in under 1/2 hour. Would that be OK
with you? After all, it's not assault or indecent exposure, and it's
certainly not a bad as a child starving in Africa. I just like your
window and I feel like having it, purely on a whim. You wouldn't call
the police, right?

A dog doesn't purposely pee on your garden because it annoys you. It
doesn't even consciously think about it.

Jen


Does the dog owner leave the house with the dog intentionally, or is the
dog owner somehow unaware of his/her actions? I think that qualifies as
dementia.


Once again the owners fault, not the dog's!!