I have a large area between our front walkway and the stockade fence that
I'm tired of mowing. Since it is almost entirely in shade, I think I'd
like to turn it into a mint garden this year. I don't care about spreading
because if the mint goes under the fence and into the yard it just makes
the dogs smell nice. I also have no objection to just mowing it like lawn
if it crops up where I don't want it.

What's the best way to make sure that I get garden there and not mint
sprinkled with regrown grass? I was going to rent a tiller and turn up the
sod but then what? Do I remove the sod chunks or do I just chop it, turn
it under and hope it becomes green manure and not more grass? Is it better
to remove all the sod and then replace the missing dirt with top soil? If
some grass sprouts up down the line, will the mature mint plants smother it
out?

All opinions and experiences welcome.

Thx.

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 16:47:38 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
wrote:

I have a large area between our front walkway and the stockade fence that
I'm tired of mowing. Since it is almost entirely in shade, I think I'd
like to turn it into a mint garden this year. I don't care about spreading
because if the mint goes under the fence and into the yard it just makes
the dogs smell nice. I also have no objection to just mowing it like lawn
if it crops up where I don't want it.

What's the best way to make sure that I get garden there and not mint
sprinkled with regrown grass? I was going to rent a tiller and turn up the
sod but then what? Do I remove the sod chunks or do I just chop it, turn
it under and hope it becomes green manure and not more grass? Is it better
to remove all the sod and then replace the missing dirt with top soil? If
some grass sprouts up down the line, will the mature mint plants smother it
out?

All opinions and experiences welcome.

Thx.

When I do this I water well and two days later get out with my sharp
edging spade and remove the sod by hand, sitting there shaking the
soil off as I go. You can also rent a sod cutter or pay someone to do
it. I like getting down in the dirt and breaking up clumps, etc.
Never do this if the soil is too wet as you will ruin the texture for
good. Do not mow it under unless it is rye.

"FragileWarrior" wrote in message

All opinions and experiences welcome.



It might depend on what type of grass you have.

We have St. Augustine, and when we removed our entire front lawn we dug it
all up. A sodcutter would be great, but we did it the old fashioned way with
a flat shovel and a wheelbarrow. We put down two layers of "guaranteed"
weedcloth, and several inches of mulch on top of that, and I still have to
weed it by hand.
With mint I would think it would take over the area fairly rapidly, though.

Here's what we ended up with
http://www.cearbhaill.com/DSC00219.JPG

Good luck.


--
Toni
South Florida USA
USDA Zone 10
http://www.cearbhaill.com

"Cearbhaill" wrote in news:StEEh.28295$6a.4475
@bignews4.bellsouth.net:

Here's what we ended up with
http://www.cearbhaill.com/DSC00219.JPG

Ohhhh! LOVELY! Nice job.

I didn't mention using weed cloth because everyone seems to think it fails
pretty easily. I guess they were right.

Jangchub wrote in
:

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 16:47:38 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
wrote:

I have a large area between our front walkway and the stockade fence
that I'm tired of mowing. Since it is almost entirely in shade, I
think I'd like to turn it into a mint garden this year. I don't care
about spreading because if the mint goes under the fence and into the
yard it just makes the dogs smell nice. I also have no objection to
just mowing it like lawn if it crops up where I don't want it.

What's the best way to make sure that I get garden there and not mint
sprinkled with regrown grass? I was going to rent a tiller and turn
up the sod but then what? Do I remove the sod chunks or do I just
chop it, turn it under and hope it becomes green manure and not more
grass? Is it better to remove all the sod and then replace the
missing dirt with top soil? If some grass sprouts up down the line,
will the mature mint plants smother it out?

All opinions and experiences welcome.

Thx.

When I do this I water well and two days later get out with my sharp
edging spade and remove the sod by hand, sitting there shaking the
soil off as I go. You can also rent a sod cutter or pay someone to do
it. I like getting down in the dirt and breaking up clumps, etc.

I did do that for the garden alongside the house last year but this
Indiana clay sort of wears on your nerves after awhile. Maybe by the
time spring rolls around I will have sufficiently recovered from LAST
year to do it by hand.


Never do this if the soil is too wet as you will ruin the texture for
good.

Can you explain what you mean by "ruin the texture"? Wouldn't the
texture come back as the soil dries out?

g'day fragile warrior,

maybe you could sheet mulch/raised garden/lasagne the area to get
control over any grass that is there then plant the mint and in time
either mow it or use a whipper snipper to trim it.

we have ideas on raised gardens on our site that may give you some
ideas?

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 16:47:38 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
wrote:

snipped
With peace and brightest of blessings,

len

--
"Be Content With What You Have And
May You Find Serenity and Tranquillity In
A World That You May Not Understand."

http://www.lensgarden.com.au/

On Feb 26, 9:04 am, Jangchub wrote:
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 16:47:38 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior



wrote:
I have a large area between our front walkway and the stockade fence that
I'm tired of mowing. Since it is almost entirely in shade, I think I'd
like to turn it into a mint garden this year. I don't care about spreading
because if the mint goes under the fence and into the yard it just makes
the dogs smell nice. I also have no objection to just mowing it like lawn
if it crops up where I don't want it.

What's the best way to make sure that I get garden there and not mint
sprinkled with regrown grass? I was going to rent a tiller and turn up the
sod but then what? Do I remove the sod chunks or do I just chop it, turn
it under and hope it becomes green manure and not more grass? Is it better
to remove all the sod and then replace the missing dirt with top soil? If
some grass sprouts up down the line, will the mature mint plants smother it
out?

All opinions and experiences welcome.

Thx.

When I do this I water well and two days later get out with my sharp
edging spade and remove the sod by hand, sitting there shaking the
soil off as I go. You can also rent a sod cutter or pay someone to do
it. I like getting down in the dirt and breaking up clumps, etc.
Never do this if the soil is too wet as you will ruin the texture for
good. Do not mow it under unless it is rye.

Victoria
I think you meant to say 'soil structure' will be damaged?
Texture refers to the size and type of the mineral particles in the
soil:
clay (small), silt (medium) and sand (large) and their percentages.
What the soil is made of couldn't be changed by wet tilling; however,
the structure could be harmed.
Emilie

On Feb 26, 9:25 am, FragileWarrior
wrote:
Jangchub wrote :



On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 16:47:38 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
wrote:

I have a large area between our front walkway and the stockade fence
that I'm tired of mowing. Since it is almost entirely in shade, I
think I'd like to turn it into a mint garden this year. I don't care
about spreading because if the mint goes under the fence and into the
yard it just makes the dogs smell nice. I also have no objection to
just mowing it like lawn if it crops up where I don't want it.

What's the best way to make sure that I get garden there and not mint
sprinkled with regrown grass? I was going to rent a tiller and turn
up the sod but then what? Do I remove the sod chunks or do I just
chop it, turn it under and hope it becomes green manure and not more
grass? Is it better to remove all the sod and then replace the
missing dirt with top soil? If some grass sprouts up down the line,
will the mature mint plants smother it out?

All opinions and experiences welcome.

Thx.

When I do this I water well and two days later get out with my sharp
edging spade and remove the sod by hand, sitting there shaking the
soil off as I go. You can also rent a sod cutter or pay someone to do
it. I like getting down in the dirt and breaking up clumps, etc.

I did do that for the garden alongside the house last year but this
Indiana clay sort of wears on your nerves after awhile. Maybe by the
time spring rolls around I will have sufficiently recovered from LAST
year to do it by hand.

Never do this if the soil is too wet as you will ruin the texture for
good.

Can you explain what you mean by "ruin the texture"? Wouldn't the
texture come back as the soil dries out?

FW
What will be damaged is the soil structure, or the way the particles
are
put together. Tilling wet soil, especially clay will eliminate all the
air spaces
(pores) and the soil will become compacted hard as a rock when it
dries out.
(That's what happened to our great loam soil here. Someone tilled it
wet and it
was like cement. HAD to be wet down the night before or the shovel
would
not penetrate it dry) Walking on it wet will do the same thing.
It's not permanent, but takes a lot of time and work to get it back to
good stuff.

Take some soil in your hand and squeeze it. If it sticks together in a
gooey
mass, don't till/dig it yet. When you can poke a ball of soil with
your finger,
and it falls apart easily, then is the time to work the soil. You
might want
to dig in some compost/organic matter in when you do, it will improve
the
structure of clay soil tremendously. Good soil structure will clump
together
somewhat like cake crumbs, with air spaces between the crumbs.
If you don't have ST Augustine or Bermuda, but just grass, tilling it
under
would provide some organic material itself.

Emilie

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 16:47:38 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
wrote:

I have a large area between our front walkway and the stockade fence that
I'm tired of mowing. Since it is almost entirely in shade, I think I'd
like to turn it into a mint garden this year. I don't care about spreading
because if the mint goes under the fence and into the yard it just makes
the dogs smell nice. I also have no objection to just mowing it like lawn
if it crops up where I don't want it.

What's the best way to make sure that I get garden there and not mint
sprinkled with regrown grass? I was going to rent a tiller and turn up the
sod but then what? Do I remove the sod chunks or do I just chop it, turn
it under and hope it becomes green manure and not more grass? Is it better
to remove all the sod and then replace the missing dirt with top soil? If
some grass sprouts up down the line, will the mature mint plants smother it
out?

All opinions and experiences welcome.

Thx.


Cover it with black plastic till it's dead. This is quick in full sun
but will work eventually in the shade. No-till is the rage these days
but I've been tilling a long time and have had some nice gardens. It
depends allot on how much topsoil you've got and what you want to go
through to add to it. Sometimes tilling is good. If you're growing
something like carrots and have heavy clay covered by an inch of
topsoil tilling will break things up enough for the carrots. If you've
got a foot of topsoil you don't need to till. In any case mint grows
like a weed and the soil makes little difference. A herbicide would
work too.

I would mulch heavily around the mint transplants. Eventually the mint
will take over but some grasses will compete. Another way to do this
would be to cover the grass with cardboard and or layered newspaper,
with grass clippings, shredded leaves, etc. on top. After the grass is
dead plant mint through the mulch.

"FragileWarrior" wrote in message
...
I have a large area between our front walkway and the stockade fence that
I'm tired of mowing. Since it is almost entirely in shade, I think I'd
like to turn it into a mint garden this year. I don't care about
spreading
because if the mint goes under the fence and into the yard it just makes
the dogs smell nice. I also have no objection to just mowing it like lawn
if it crops up where I don't want it.

What's the best way to make sure that I get garden there and not mint
sprinkled with regrown grass? I was going to rent a tiller and turn up
the
sod but then what? Do I remove the sod chunks or do I just chop it, turn
it under and hope it becomes green manure and not more grass? Is it
better
to remove all the sod and then replace the missing dirt with top soil? If
some grass sprouts up down the line, will the mature mint plants smother
it
out?

All opinions and experiences welcome.

Thx.


You're tired of mowing, so you want to plant mint. That's a great plan, if
your idea of fun is crushing your fingers in car doors while having your
hair set on fire and your leg attacked by a rabid Doberman. Mint is
invasive, so you'll be doing lots of work keeping it out of where you don't
want it. Mowing will not be enough. And, there will probably be leftover
grass popping up for a long time. You'll need to deal with that on your
hands & knees. Big fun.

As far as making dogs smell good with mint, eliminate that thought from your
mind. You never said it. The idea is gone right now.

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 17:25:34 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
wrote:


Can you explain what you mean by "ruin the texture"? Wouldn't the
texture come back as the soil dries out?

Not necessarily. For example in clay soils with little organic
matter, if you work wet soil it will ball up and it would be very
difficult to break up all the clumps. In friable soil, it's easier to
break clumps, but it's work.

On 26 Feb 2007 10:26:48 -0800, "mleblanca" wrote:

On Feb 26, 9:04 am, Jangchub wrote:
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 16:47:38 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior



wrote:
I have a large area between our front walkway and the stockade fence that
I'm tired of mowing. Since it is almost entirely in shade, I think I'd
like to turn it into a mint garden this year. I don't care about spreading
because if the mint goes under the fence and into the yard it just makes
the dogs smell nice. I also have no objection to just mowing it like lawn
if it crops up where I don't want it.

What's the best way to make sure that I get garden there and not mint
sprinkled with regrown grass? I was going to rent a tiller and turn up the
sod but then what? Do I remove the sod chunks or do I just chop it, turn
it under and hope it becomes green manure and not more grass? Is it better
to remove all the sod and then replace the missing dirt with top soil? If
some grass sprouts up down the line, will the mature mint plants smother it
out?

All opinions and experiences welcome.

Thx.

When I do this I water well and two days later get out with my sharp
edging spade and remove the sod by hand, sitting there shaking the
soil off as I go. You can also rent a sod cutter or pay someone to do
it. I like getting down in the dirt and breaking up clumps, etc.
Never do this if the soil is too wet as you will ruin the texture for
good. Do not mow it under unless it is rye.

Victoria
I think you meant to say 'soil structure' will be damaged?
Texture refers to the size and type of the mineral particles in the
soil:
clay (small), silt (medium) and sand (large) and their percentages.
What the soil is made of couldn't be changed by wet tilling; however,
the structure could be harmed.
Emilie

Texture refers to clay, sand, silt, etc. Structure refers to
nutrients. You have it the other way around.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in
:

"FragileWarrior" wrote in message
...
I have a large area between our front walkway and the stockade fence
that
I'm tired of mowing. Since it is almost entirely in shade, I think
I'd like to turn it into a mint garden this year. I don't care about
spreading
because if the mint goes under the fence and into the yard it just
makes the dogs smell nice. I also have no objection to just mowing it
like lawn if it crops up where I don't want it.

What's the best way to make sure that I get garden there and not mint
sprinkled with regrown grass? I was going to rent a tiller and turn
up the
sod but then what? Do I remove the sod chunks or do I just chop it,
turn it under and hope it becomes green manure and not more grass?
Is it better
to remove all the sod and then replace the missing dirt with top
soil? If some grass sprouts up down the line, will the mature mint
plants smother it
out?

All opinions and experiences welcome.

Thx.


You're tired of mowing, so you want to plant mint. That's a great
plan, if your idea of fun is crushing your fingers in car doors while
having your hair set on fire and your leg attacked by a rabid
Doberman. Mint is invasive, so you'll be doing lots of work keeping
it out of where you don't want it.

I want it everywhere. I think we've had this conversation before.

Mowing will not be enough.

Don't care.

And,
there will probably be leftover grass popping up for a long time.
You'll need to deal with that on your hands & knees. Big fun.

I have a plan. When I trim the tops of the mint, I'll get the high
grass, too.


As far as making dogs smell good with mint, eliminate that thought
from your mind.

Why? It does. My Wolfhounds and Afghan Hounds always smelled wonderful
when they came in from the yard.

You never said it. The idea is gone right now.

Nope, still there.

Oh, yeah, and I like all the insect life it attracts, too.

"FragileWarrior" wrote in message
...
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in
:

"FragileWarrior" wrote in message
...
I have a large area between our front walkway and the stockade fence
that
I'm tired of mowing. Since it is almost entirely in shade, I think
I'd like to turn it into a mint garden this year. I don't care about
spreading
because if the mint goes under the fence and into the yard it just
makes the dogs smell nice. I also have no objection to just mowing it
like lawn if it crops up where I don't want it.

What's the best way to make sure that I get garden there and not mint
sprinkled with regrown grass? I was going to rent a tiller and turn
up the
sod but then what? Do I remove the sod chunks or do I just chop it,
turn it under and hope it becomes green manure and not more grass?
Is it better
to remove all the sod and then replace the missing dirt with top
soil? If some grass sprouts up down the line, will the mature mint
plants smother it
out?

All opinions and experiences welcome.

Thx.


You're tired of mowing, so you want to plant mint. That's a great
plan, if your idea of fun is crushing your fingers in car doors while
having your hair set on fire and your leg attacked by a rabid
Doberman. Mint is invasive, so you'll be doing lots of work keeping
it out of where you don't want it.

I want it everywhere. I think we've had this conversation before.

Mowing will not be enough.

Don't care.

And,
there will probably be leftover grass popping up for a long time.
You'll need to deal with that on your hands & knees. Big fun.

I have a plan. When I trim the tops of the mint, I'll get the high
grass, too.


OK - then your motive is NOT that you're tired of mowing. You'll still be
mowing. Let me remind you that you are under oath. :-)



As far as making dogs smell good with mint, eliminate that thought
from your mind.

Why? It does. My Wolfhounds and Afghan Hounds always smelled wonderful
when they came in from the yard.

You never said it. The idea is gone right now.

Nope, still there.

Well, dogs will always stink. You'll only be masking it with mint, in the
same way cleaning products often have smells added to distract the nose from
the chemical smells.



Oh, yeah, and I like all the insect life it attracts, too.

I agree. Better than attracting dogs.

"Jangchub" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 16:47:38 +0000 (UTC), FragileWarrior
wrote:

I have a large area between our front walkway and the stockade fence
that
I'm tired of mowing. Since it is almost entirely in shade, I think I'd
like to turn it into a mint garden this year. I don't care about
spreading
because if the mint goes under the fence and into the yard it just makes
the dogs smell nice. I also have no objection to just mowing it like
lawn
if it crops up where I don't want it.

What's the best way to make sure that I get garden there and not mint
sprinkled with regrown grass? I was going to rent a tiller and turn up
the
sod but then what? Do I remove the sod chunks or do I just chop it,
turn
it under and hope it becomes green manure and not more grass? Is it
better
to remove all the sod and then replace the missing dirt with top soil?
If
some grass sprouts up down the line, will the mature mint plants smother
it
out?

All opinions and experiences welcome.

When I do this I water well and two days later get out with my sharp
edging spade and remove the sod by hand, sitting there shaking the
soil off as I go.

This is exactly what I have done for 3 gardens that I put in and it worked
very well, one along the driveway and the other 2 as islands in the yard.
I replaced the missing material with a mix of manure and topsoil. These 2
gardens (not vegetable, but lots of perennial/annual stuff including mint)
are vibrantly full of vigor.
Tomes