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#46
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Lycopene in tomatoes
"z" wrote in message ups.com... On Jul 1, 1:12 pm, Billy Rose wrote: A tomato (Israel's Lyc-O-Mato) was the entry point for this thread. Since the original post, I have give two reasons for shunning this particular tomato (1) political (I don't support fascists) Well, just to pick on this point; that's the same kind of broadbrush tarring of some group of people for the actions of a few that has kept mankind up to its collective neck in blood for ten thousand years. Do you have any reason to believe that the individuals who would profit from your buying this tomato are in any way responsible for the plight of the average Palestinian? How do you know the tomato was not in fact developed and marketed by Israelis of Arabic descent? In fact, you have no knowledge of the individuals associated with this tomato, but since they can be denoted as "Israeli", that's enough to render them subject to collective punishment. Wouldn't you question the strategy of boycotting Microsoft products, solely on the grounds of the Iraqi War? For a nonhypothetical example, take the recent decision by British academics to boycott Israeli university academics. Just who do they think is the liberal wing of Israeli society? Hebrew University, for example, extends college courses and degrees to Palestinian prisoners in Israeli prisons. It's particularly ironic, since Israeli universities are some of the few places on earth where a Palestinian woman can not only receive a university degree, but can do so while wearing a niqab (veil) if she wishes; while at the same time in Britain: " A lawyer dressed in a niqab was told by an immigration judge that she could not represent a client because, he said, he could not hear her. A teacher wearing a niqab was dismissed from her school. A student who was barred from wearing a niqab took her case to the courts, and lost. In reaction, the British educational authorities are proposing a ban on the niqab in schools altogether." Muslims' Veils Test Limits of Britain's Tolerance, New York Times, June 22, 2007 http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/22/wo...pe/22veil.html Thank you for the refreshingly cogent (and polite) post. It is a nice change. |
#47
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Lycopene in tomatoes
In article , Charlie wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 18:59:28 -0400, Ann wrote: Geez, I wish you guys would learn to trim...... I'm sorry. I know better. Thanks for the knuckle-rap. ;-) Charlie Wasn't me, it was him. -- Billy http://angryarab.blogspot.com/ |
#48
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Lycopene in tomatoes
Again, you contorted view of the Middle East and Israel.
Billy Rose wrote: Several good points. It is group punishment, albeit less sever than the Palestinians receive at the hands of the Israelis but still similar to the sanctions placed against South Africa. No similarities there. Israel is not an apartheid state. Most of the world is against what the Israelis are doing (as they are against what our government is doing), even if their governments find economic advantage in maintaining ties with Israel (more a nod, in my opinion to the economic consequences imposed by the United States). So what else is new? Israel is defending themselves against idiots who blow themselves up in cafes and buses hoping to get some of those virgins promised them. Don't forget that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East that supports the war against terrorism. I think that is good enough reason to support them. But, please. Read what I write. Don't beat up a straw man. There are many good, decent Israelis. Even peace activists who don't care if their neighbors are Palestinians or a Martians, for that matter. What they are concerned about is how their neighbors treat them. I just don't see the need for an Israel. You would rather the Jews have no country of their own and wander the earth being thrown into ghettos and rounded up and murdered. The Jews were in Israel long before the Arabs arrived out of the Saudi desert in the eighth century. They are entitled to a country just like England where the State religion is Christian (I forget which denominaton), and on and on. An ethnically pure country? There are several minority religious groups in Israel, including Moslems and Christians. If you are going to point fingers about ethnic purity, look at the history of minority religions in the Arab countries. In some cases they were accepted, but in many they were restricted in their activities and treated poorly. The Arabs would like the Middle East to be ethnically pure, all Moslem. Hence, the core of many of the problems of that region. Just has a bad sounding taste to it and Jews should be the first to recognize that. Of course Zionism pre-date Nazism. After WWI, maybe an ethnically pure state sounded reasonable. After WWII, I don't think so. So you think anti-semitism is dead? You are not very informed on that subject. Zionism, in my opinion, is the problem. It is Zionism, and now territorial aggrandizement, through ethnic cleansing that is the problem. All property in Israel is owned by the state. Bull shit. The government owns part of the land as does the British government in their country. Most of the land in Israel is privately owned. Once a Palestinian loses their land, they cannot get it back. Home destruction by the state, and refusal to grant building permits are the weapons. How about, I'm OK. Your OK. If you want to buy it, you pay for it? In the Arab countries, they don't even pay for the land they take from the Jews (almost a million refugees). If you want to talk about prejudice, why were the Jews( and in some cases Christians) treated as second class citizens in many Arab countries? The international community should be able to guarantee Jewish safety (a legitimate concern, considering the past). You are a dreamer if you believe that would ever happen. At present it is just the United States and Guam (and maybe the Marshall Islands) that guarantees Israel's survival. But are they safe? Billions of dollars of American foreign aid is squandered in Israel every year. What kind of country would it be, if that money was spent on social needs instead for Moslems and Jews? The Moslems get plenty of money from their oil glutted neighbors. Yes the niqab in Britain and the foulard in France are contentious issues. Group pressure to conform or individual freedom? Personally, I have no problem with either (niqab or foulard), if it isn't coercion. -- Billy http://angryarab.blogspot.com/ I know it bothers you that Jews have their own state, and a strong one as well. Well, get used to it. Try and look on both sides of these issues, as the Palestinians have been guilty of many crimes against Israel. Their is a large group (Hamas and others) who refuse to recognize the State of Israel, and like you would like to push all the Jews into the Mediterranean. Sound familiar to you? I suggest you pay a visit to the region to see the situation for yourself. If you rely on the prejudicial news like the BBC, you will only get one side of the picture. If you are not anti-semetic and are willing to look at the realities from both sides, you may come to different opinions. I have lived in the region for 5 years and have made frequent visits to countries around Israel, like Eygpt, so I am speaking from my own experiences, not the bull shit propaganda sites you seem to dig up on the internet. Sherwin |
#49
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Lycopene in tomatoes
Ann wrote: William Wagner expounded: Charlie snip of over 190 lines Bill Geez, I wish you guys would learn to trim...... -- Ann, gardening in Zone 6a South of Boston, Massachusetts e-mail address is not checked ****************************** I would like to see them trim their political banter to zero lines. I know I am contributing to this, but these guys will not give up and I can't stand by and see this garbage going on the gardening site. Sherwin |
#50
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Lycopene in tomatoes
In article , Charlie wrote:
On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 19:11:07 -0700, Billy Rose wrote: Wasn't me, it was him. Bucketmouth Sorry, conditioned response. When you guys going to go to bed. Us geezers need our sleep. But in the mean time, I LIKE SMOKING LIGHTNING HEAVY METAL THUNDER RACING WITH THE WIND AND THE FEELING THAT I'M UNDER YEAH I GOT TO GO MAKE IT HAPPEN TAKE THE WORLD IN A LOVE EMBRACE FIRE ALL OF YOUR GUNS AT ONCE AND EXPLODE INTO SPACE LIKE A TRUE NATURES CHILD WE WERE BORN BORN TO BE WILD WE CAN CLIMB SO HIGH I NEVER WANNA DIE BORN TO BE WILD BORN TO BE WILD -- Billy http://angryarab.blogspot.com/ |
#51
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Perhaps this collection of posts is a good example of what happens when people:
- do not think through the potential impact of what they say - over react to each other's comments - become entrenched in their positions - need to show that they are "right" Quickly it becomes difficult to forget what was said, and find a way forward enabling all to live in harmony and offer a neighbour a helping hand. I hope you will see that you will not convince each other of your views, so why not return to gardening and offer each other the benefit of your wisdom in areas that will help each other. If you want to make a difference in the Middle East then why not do something pro-active. Perhaps with your very different views and connections, you could lead by example, agree to work together to sponsor a programme that had children from both communities working together on new gardens. (or a better idea) Maybe in time, by working together on something they could all be proud of, the children and their families would nurture a bit more than flowers and vegetables for their communities. Or, you could be rude about me too. |
#52
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Lycopene in tomatoes
sherwindu expounded:
I would like to see them trim their political banter to zero lines. I know I am contributing to this, but these guys will not give up and I can't stand by and see this garbage going on the gardening site. Sherwin, you're continuing it. I stay out of the politics now, because I don't want to fight. So stop it. -- Ann, gardening in Zone 6a South of Boston, Massachusetts e-mail address is not checked ****************************** |
#53
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Lycopene in tomatoes
On Jul 5, 9:00 pm, "KarenCannoli" wrote:
"z" wrote in message ups.com... On Jul 1, 1:12 pm, Billy Rose wrote: A tomato (Israel's Lyc-O-Mato) was the entry point for this thread. Since the original post, I have give two reasons for shunning this particular tomato (1) political (I don't support fascists) Well, just to pick on this point; that's the same kind of broadbrush tarring of some group of people for the actions of a few that has kept mankind up to its collective neck in blood for ten thousand years. Do you have any reason to believe that the individuals who would profit from your buying this tomato are in any way responsible for the plight of the average Palestinian? How do you know the tomato was not in fact developed and marketed by Israelis of Arabic descent? In fact, you have no knowledge of the individuals associated with this tomato, but since they can be denoted as "Israeli", that's enough to render them subject to collective punishment. Wouldn't you question the strategy of boycotting Microsoft products, solely on the grounds of the Iraqi War? For a nonhypothetical example, take the recent decision by British academics to boycott Israeli university academics. Just who do they think is the liberal wing of Israeli society? Hebrew University, for example, extends college courses and degrees to Palestinian prisoners in Israeli prisons. It's particularly ironic, since Israeli universities are some of the few places on earth where a Palestinian woman can not only receive a university degree, but can do so while wearing a niqab (veil) if she wishes; while at the same time in Britain: " A lawyer dressed in a niqab was told by an immigration judge that she could not represent a client because, he said, he could not hear her. A teacher wearing a niqab was dismissed from her school. A student who was barred from wearing a niqab took her case to the courts, and lost. In reaction, the British educational authorities are proposing a ban on the niqab in schools altogether." Muslims' Veils Test Limits of Britain's Tolerance, New York Times, June 22, 2007 http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/22/wo...pe/22veil.html Thank you for the refreshingly cogent (and polite) post. It is a nice change.- Thank you. I owe it all to the lycopene I consume. |
#54
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Lycopene in tomatoes
In article .com,
z wrote: Thank you. I owe it all to the lycopene I consume. I think this was covered once before but just to be absolutely sure, Lycopene from processed tomato products appears to be more bioavailable than that from raw Tomatoes. Bioavailability of lycopene is believed to be affected by: Processing (cooking) undergone Presence of dietary lipids Heat-applied The dosage and the presence of other carotenoids, such as ss-carotene The bioavailability of lycopene is significantly higher when lycopene was ingested along with ss-carotene than when ingested alone. http://holisticonline.com/cancer/cancer_lycopene.htm -- Billy http://angryarab.blogspot.com/ |
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