"z" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 1, 1:12 pm, Billy Rose wrote:

A tomato (Israel's Lyc-O-Mato) was the entry point for this thread.
Since the original post, I have give two reasons for shunning this
particular tomato (1) political (I don't support fascists)

Well, just to pick on this point; that's the same kind of broadbrush
tarring of some group of people for the actions of a few that has kept
mankind up to its collective neck in blood for ten thousand years. Do
you have any reason to believe that the individuals who would profit
from your buying this tomato are in any way responsible for the plight
of the average Palestinian? How do you know the tomato was not in fact
developed and marketed by Israelis of Arabic descent? In fact, you
have no knowledge of the individuals associated with this tomato, but
since they can be denoted as "Israeli", that's enough to render them
subject to collective punishment. Wouldn't you question the strategy
of boycotting Microsoft products, solely on the grounds of the Iraqi
War?

For a nonhypothetical example, take the recent decision by British
academics to boycott Israeli university academics. Just who do they
think is the liberal wing of Israeli society? Hebrew University, for
example, extends college courses and degrees to Palestinian prisoners
in Israeli prisons. It's particularly ironic, since Israeli
universities are some of the few places on earth where a Palestinian
woman can not only receive a university degree, but can do so while
wearing a niqab (veil) if she wishes; while at the same time in
Britain:
" A lawyer dressed in a niqab was told by an immigration judge that
she could not represent a client because, he said, he could not hear
her. A teacher wearing a niqab was dismissed from her school. A
student who was barred from wearing a niqab took her case to the
courts, and lost. In reaction, the British educational authorities are
proposing a ban on the niqab in schools altogether."
Muslims' Veils Test Limits of Britain's Tolerance, New York Times,
June 22, 2007
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/22/wo...pe/22veil.html


Thank you for the refreshingly cogent (and polite) post. It is a nice
change.

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 18:59:28 -0400, Ann wrote:


Geez, I wish you guys would learn to trim......

I'm sorry. I know better.

Thanks for the knuckle-rap. ;-)

Charlie

Wasn't me, it was him.
--
Billy
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/

Again, you contorted view of the Middle East and Israel.

Billy Rose wrote:


Several good points. It is group punishment, albeit less sever than the
Palestinians receive at the hands of the Israelis but still similar to
the sanctions placed against South Africa.

No similarities there. Israel is not an apartheid state.

Most of the world is against
what the Israelis are doing (as they are against what our government is
doing), even if their governments find economic advantage in maintaining
ties with Israel (more a nod, in my opinion to the economic consequences
imposed by the United States).

So what else is new? Israel is defending themselves against idiots who
blow themselves up in cafes and buses hoping to get some of those virgins
promised them. Don't forget that Israel is the only democracy in the
Middle East that supports the war against terrorism. I think that is good
enough reason to support them.



But, please. Read what I write. Don't beat up a straw man. There are
many good, decent Israelis. Even peace activists who don't care if their
neighbors are Palestinians or a Martians, for that matter. What they are
concerned about is how their neighbors treat them.

I just don't see the need for an Israel.

You would rather the Jews have no country of their own and wander the
earth being thrown into ghettos and rounded up and murdered. The Jews
were in Israel long before the Arabs arrived out of the Saudi desert in the
eighth century. They are entitled to a country just like England where the

State religion is Christian (I forget which denominaton), and on and on.


An ethnically pure country?

There are several minority religious groups in Israel, including Moslems and
Christians. If you are going to point fingers about ethnic purity, look at
the
history of minority religions in the Arab countries. In some cases they were

accepted, but in many they were restricted in their activities and treated
poorly.
The Arabs would like the Middle East to be ethnically pure, all Moslem.
Hence,
the core of many of the problems of that region.


Just has a bad sounding taste to it and Jews should be the first to
recognize that. Of course Zionism pre-date Nazism. After WWI, maybe an
ethnically pure state sounded reasonable. After WWII, I don't think so.

So you think anti-semitism is dead? You are not very informed on that
subject.


Zionism, in my opinion, is the problem. It is Zionism, and now
territorial aggrandizement, through ethnic cleansing that is the
problem. All property in Israel is owned by the state.

Bull shit. The government owns part of the land as does the British
government in their country. Most of the land in Israel is privately owned.

Once a
Palestinian loses their land, they cannot get it back. Home destruction
by the state, and refusal to grant building permits are the weapons. How
about, I'm OK. Your OK. If you want to buy it, you pay for it?

In the Arab countries, they don't even pay for the land they take
from the Jews (almost a million refugees). If you want to talk about
prejudice, why were the Jews( and in some cases Christians) treated as
second class citizens in many Arab countries?



The international community should be able to guarantee Jewish safety
(a legitimate concern, considering the past).

You are a dreamer if you believe that would ever happen.

At present it is just the
United States and Guam (and maybe the Marshall Islands) that guarantees
Israel's survival. But are they safe? Billions of dollars of American
foreign aid is squandered in Israel every year. What kind of country
would it be, if that money was spent on social needs instead for Moslems
and Jews?

The Moslems get plenty of money from their oil glutted neighbors.

Yes the niqab in Britain and the foulard in France are contentious
issues. Group pressure to conform or individual freedom? Personally, I
have no problem with either (niqab or foulard), if it isn't coercion.
--
Billy
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/

I know it bothers you that Jews have their own state, and a strong one
as well. Well, get used to it. Try and look on both sides of these issues,

as the Palestinians have been guilty of many crimes against Israel. Their
is a large group (Hamas and others) who refuse to recognize the State of
Israel, and like you would like to push all the Jews into the Mediterranean.
Sound familiar to you?

I suggest you pay a visit to the region to see the situation for yourself.
If
you rely on the prejudicial news like the BBC, you will only get one side
of the picture. If you are not anti-semetic and are willing to look at the
realities from both sides, you may come to different opinions. I have lived
in the region for 5 years and have made frequent visits to countries around
Israel, like Eygpt, so I am speaking from my own experiences, not the bull
shit propaganda sites you seem to dig up on the internet.

Sherwin

Ann wrote:

William Wagner expounded:

Charlie

snip of over 190 lines

Bill

Geez, I wish you guys would learn to trim......
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

I would like to see them trim their political banter to zero lines. I know I
am
contributing to this, but these guys will not give up and I can't stand by
and
see this garbage going on the gardening site.

Sherwin

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 19:11:07 -0700, Billy Rose
wrote:


Wasn't me, it was him.

Bucketmouth

Sorry, conditioned response. When you guys going to go to bed. Us
geezers need our sleep.

But in the mean time,

I LIKE SMOKING LIGHTNING
HEAVY METAL THUNDER
RACING WITH THE WIND
AND THE FEELING THAT I'M UNDER

YEAH I GOT TO GO MAKE IT HAPPEN
TAKE THE WORLD IN A LOVE EMBRACE
FIRE ALL OF YOUR GUNS AT ONCE AND
EXPLODE INTO SPACE

LIKE A TRUE NATURES CHILD
WE WERE BORN BORN TO BE WILD
WE CAN CLIMB SO HIGH
I NEVER WANNA DIE

BORN TO BE WILD
BORN TO BE WILD
--
Billy
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/

Perhaps this collection of posts is a good example of what happens when people:

- do not think through the potential impact of what they say

- over react to each other's comments

- become entrenched in their positions

- need to show that they are "right"

Quickly it becomes difficult to forget what was said, and find a way forward enabling all to live in harmony and offer a neighbour a helping hand.

I hope you will see that you will not convince each other of your views, so why not return to gardening and offer each other the benefit of your wisdom in areas that will help each other.

If you want to make a difference in the Middle East then why not do something pro-active.

Perhaps with your very different views and connections, you could lead by example, agree to work together to sponsor a programme that had children from both communities working together on new gardens. (or a better idea)

Maybe in time, by working together on something they could all be proud of, the children and their families would nurture a bit more than flowers and vegetables for their communities.

Or, you could be rude about me too.

sherwindu expounded:


I would like to see them trim their political banter to zero lines. I know I
am
contributing to this, but these guys will not give up and I can't stand by
and
see this garbage going on the gardening site.

Sherwin, you're continuing it. I stay out of the politics now,
because I don't want to fight. So stop it.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

On Jul 5, 9:00 pm, "KarenCannoli" wrote:
"z" wrote in message

ups.com...



On Jul 1, 1:12 pm, Billy Rose wrote:

A tomato (Israel's Lyc-O-Mato) was the entry point for this thread.
Since the original post, I have give two reasons for shunning this
particular tomato (1) political (I don't support fascists)

Well, just to pick on this point; that's the same kind of broadbrush
tarring of some group of people for the actions of a few that has kept
mankind up to its collective neck in blood for ten thousand years. Do
you have any reason to believe that the individuals who would profit
from your buying this tomato are in any way responsible for the plight
of the average Palestinian? How do you know the tomato was not in fact
developed and marketed by Israelis of Arabic descent? In fact, you
have no knowledge of the individuals associated with this tomato, but
since they can be denoted as "Israeli", that's enough to render them
subject to collective punishment. Wouldn't you question the strategy
of boycotting Microsoft products, solely on the grounds of the Iraqi
War?

For a nonhypothetical example, take the recent decision by British
academics to boycott Israeli university academics. Just who do they
think is the liberal wing of Israeli society? Hebrew University, for
example, extends college courses and degrees to Palestinian prisoners
in Israeli prisons. It's particularly ironic, since Israeli
universities are some of the few places on earth where a Palestinian
woman can not only receive a university degree, but can do so while
wearing a niqab (veil) if she wishes; while at the same time in
Britain:
" A lawyer dressed in a niqab was told by an immigration judge that
she could not represent a client because, he said, he could not hear
her. A teacher wearing a niqab was dismissed from her school. A
student who was barred from wearing a niqab took her case to the
courts, and lost. In reaction, the British educational authorities are
proposing a ban on the niqab in schools altogether."
Muslims' Veils Test Limits of Britain's Tolerance, New York Times,
June 22, 2007
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/22/wo...pe/22veil.html

Thank you for the refreshingly cogent (and polite) post. It is a nice
change.-

Thank you. I owe it all to the lycopene I consume.

In article .com,
z wrote:

Thank you. I owe it all to the lycopene I consume.

I think this was covered once before but just to be absolutely sure,
Lycopene from processed tomato products appears to be more bioavailable
than that from raw Tomatoes. Bioavailability of lycopene is believed to
be affected by:

Processing (cooking) undergone

Presence of dietary lipids

Heat-applied

The dosage and the presence of other carotenoids, such as ss-carotene

The bioavailability of lycopene is significantly higher when lycopene
was ingested along with ss-carotene than when ingested alone.

http://holisticonline.com/cancer/cancer_lycopene.htm
--
Billy
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/