Geoff-consulting forester in the US said:

I'm a registered forester in Michigan, Pat.

Ignore this "symplastless" guy... he's a wanna-be forester.
Lacking some serious formal education, and thus professional background.

Normally I do (in rec.gardens) but took a look at this thread.

(And as far as the symplastless fellow goes, I have no reason
myself to know exactly how bark forms, my dictionaries are on shelves
downstairs, and I don't 'feed' my trees or plants. I fertilize my lawn and,
as it's sometimes put, I 'feed' the soil' in my gardens with compost and
organic fertilizers.)

Myself and my colleagues have had to sort through the majority of his
posts on this forum.

I'm glad someone does it.

I do not believe that the American ash is "history", but there is no
doubt the bug has done some serious damage to many of our hardwood
stands in the central lower peninsula (or "810" area code as I call it -
even though the actual problem extends far beyond that area code's
boundaries).

I live in Osceola county (just South of Cadillac) and it has been found
in my county, but not doing damage to the extent that it did in lower
Michigan. I have not yet seen it in a stand up here. I hope it
continues that way.

I hope that that is the case...things look rather bleak from the middle
of 'ground zero.'

Locally, the initial symtoms of what was called at first (if I remember
correctly) 'ash decline' was noticed for several years before trees
started dying in vast numbers.

The biggest problem is vectoring. It cannot vector itself very far
(maybe a mile or two), but people can vector it very broad and very fast
via cars, hence the "moving firewood bugs me" campaign.

I actually had one (the first live beetle I'd seen) tucked under the
the windshield wiper on my car. I sure hope they don't normally
ride around that way.

Once it gets to a place where there are any form of ash trees, it goes
on a feeding frenzy that is like no other.

No doubt about that!

I've sold timber in Defiance County, Ohio - which was also one of the
EAB problem areas, but timber in NW Ohio is scattered enough as to not
be a problem for EABs.

EAB resistance is more than likely a futile attempt. The best way to
eliminate the problem is to eliminate the hosts where populations of EAB
are found. This critter is not known to prey on other trees.

Do you have much trouble getting property owners to eliminate
host trees? And in areas the EAB has run rampant over, can they survive
at a low level on the basal shoots that ash trees put out? I know that there
are many skeletal ash trees (especially along freeways* and in woodlots)
that are still standing and some still send up new shoots.

*I suppose the excuse for this is lack of funds...
--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)

I have to admit, Pat it was tough even seeing your post in this giant
pile of insults, but I found it and I'll answer your questions about EAB.
See my comments below (some snipped):


Locally, the initial symtoms of what was called at first (if I remember
correctly) 'ash decline' was noticed for several years before trees
started dying in vast numbers.

-Pest and Pathogen scientists typically call severe undiagnosed health
problems in trees "decline". It's a general term for not being able to
diagnose exactly what is killing a tree.

It is sometimes quite a chore to figure out what is killing a tree or
trees as there are literally THOUSANDS of potential pathogens, any of
which could be affecting the tree either alone or in combination. We
(foresters) know when we get out in a Beech/Maple forest for example
when we see a Sugar maple with a target canker on it, it is probably
caused by a Nectria genus fungi, but to place a species on it might be
tough, since there are many species in that genus of fungi that could
cause a canker. The only reason we know of the problem is that someone
has taken the time to study it (in a lab) and the study was well
documented and known and the disease is common enough to see in the
forest.

In most cases, the diseases, insects or other pathogens have been
studied, but the amount of time to research the specie(s) of pathogen
affecting most single plants is often more costly than simply replacing
the plants (in a landscape situation).

In an urban setting, trees have a higher value (landscape value) than do
timber trees (at least typically they do), so more time (and $) can be
spent taking care of them.

Luckily, someone was smart enough to notice unusual galleries in the
White and Green ash trees and notice that it wasn't a previously known
occurring pest. There are actually gov't people who are doing something
for your money!

If you knew what was lurking in Asia (and to Europe to some extent)
ready to come over on the boat to set up a "lunch plan" over here in
America, you would be amazed - most people would want significant trade
barriers up - but would they stop shopping at wal-mart? I think not...

Our latest problem is the Sirex wood wasp (also in NY, PA, and Ontario),
which is a pest to "hard pines" like Austrian, Jack, Red and Scotch
pines. The Red and Jack pines are obvious "problem" targets, as those
are the only indigenous species of hard pines here, and they are worth
collectively MANY times what the other two species are worth (from both
a timber and ecologically important roles - A small example: Kirtland
Warbler, a transmigratory bird depends on scrubby Jack pine fields for
it's nesting habitat in the Grayling area).

We seriously hope it won't be as much of a problem as EAB is!


I actually had one (the first live beetle I'd seen) tucked under the
the windshield wiper on my car. I sure hope they don't normally
ride around that way.

That is exactly how they get vectored. Windshield wipers, under the
body, frame, wheels, etc. Firewood is a larger problem yet, since there
can be larva underneath the bark and they can emerge in different locations.


Do you have much trouble getting property owners to eliminate
host trees?

No, but I'm a private forester - Not a gov't guy. Landowners depend on
my decisions, not the other way around...

Generally, my advice is to hold off on cutting Ash trees that aren't
ready to be cut. There is no sense just cutting trees "in case".
Seriously, it's a bit ridiculous - but that's the way some loggers (and
wood pimps) are trying to market (scare) landowners into cutting trees.

And in areas the EAB has run rampant over, can they survive
at a low level on the basal shoots that ash trees put out?

I don't know, but I suspect the answer is no - unless the bugs waited
around until those shoots got large enough to produce bark thick enough
to make a habitat for them again (10-15 years or so) - but they would
have to do that by feeding on current ash trees within a 2 mile radius
(max) or so.

I know that there
are many skeletal ash trees (especially along freeways* and in woodlots)
that are still standing and some still send up new shoots.

*I suppose the excuse for this is lack of funds...

Yeah, the streets of Michigan Center, Michigan had dead Ash standing
along the street the last time I was down there. It's horrible looking,
but money is tight right now for nearly everybody in our state, public
and private sectors.

Actually, lack of funds is a *valid reason* for the lack of further
forced EAB extermination (believe me, the state burros will waste every
damned red cent that they could get their greedy hands on, since they
are clueless on where the money came from or held value to the previous
holder anyway).

There are still quarantines on hauling wood between counties, etc.
There are also checkpoints, but whether the transportation of wood is
enforced or not is anyone's guess. I could find out just by calling
around to some mills, etc. I suspect record auditing is going on, but
unsure.

My responsibility ends outside my client's boundaries (since I always
stay within them).

We have to do as much as possible to stop the vectoring of these
critters into other areas that contain host trees.

EAB has brought Ash timber prices to record lows (relative to the
strength of the dollar) during the last 5 years - and has had other
indirect impacts toward the legislative process as well.

It's a whole lot better if we can educate people to understand how to
eliminate this critter - but it takes everyone's involvement.

Not every green bug is an EAB, but if you're absolutely sure the one you
see is, please squash him a.s.a.p.

Geoff-consulting forester in the US said:
Pat Kiewicz said:

I have to admit, Pat it was tough even seeing your post in this giant
pile of insults, but I found it and I'll answer your questions about EAB.
See my comments below (some snipped):

Thanks! It has gotten a bit thick around here (I post from rec.gardens).
I hate to keep the cross-post going, but I will leave it in for this post
only.

"J teh K" used to be somewhat of a joke here in rec.gardens years ago
whenhe first showed up, but the mix has changed and he's got admirers
under his current moniker. (His typos were legendary in the old days.)

I have some limitations to my newsreader (it's old but I like it) and I
don't follow the alt.forestry group. If you wish to reply to me, I'm willing
to take it privately in e-mail at comcast.net (not at someplace.net.net
which does not exist).


If you knew what was lurking in Asia (and to Europe to some extent)
ready to come over on the boat to set up a "lunch plan" over here in
America, you would be amazed - most people would want significant trade
barriers up - but would they stop shopping at wal-mart? I think not...

Never shop at Wal-Mart voluntarily (pretty much have no choice when
I visit my mother, sad to say).

We live in an accelerated world. The hits just keep coming, faster than
ever. Humans managed to make a few dramatically nasty introductions
in old days (walnut blight and gypsy moths, anyone?) but now we have
giant containerized ships, flush-through bilges, and jet planes. Massive
opportunities for opportunistic organisms!

Our latest problem is the Sirex wood wasp (also in NY, PA, and Ontario),
which is a pest to "hard pines" like Austrian, Jack, Red and Scotch
pines. The Red and Jack pines are obvious "problem" targets, as those
are the only indigenous species of hard pines here, and they are worth
collectively MANY times what the other two species are worth (from both
a timber and ecologically important roles - A small example: Kirtland
Warbler, a transmigratory bird depends on scrubby Jack pine fields for
it's nesting habitat in the Grayling area).

We seriously hope it won't be as much of a problem as EAB is!

Yes, I've read about that one. I hope it's appetite for the native pines
is limited. So far what I've read said that other areas where Sirex has
been introduced has it mainly targets non-native pines. (This threat
makes the confirmed breeding of Kirtland's warblers in Wisconsin even
more important to the species, I suppose. Eggs not all in one basket,
as it were.)

....

I actually had one (the first live beetle I'd seen) tucked under the
the windshield wiper on my car. I sure hope they don't normally
ride around that way.

That is exactly how they get vectored. Windshield wipers, under the
body, frame, wheels, etc. Firewood is a larger problem yet, since there
can be larva underneath the bark and they can emerge in different
locations.

Erg, that's not good, if they can be vectored other than by wood
movement -- though I suppose that unlike gypsy moth caterpillars
looking for a place to pupate, the EAB has no particular inclination to
climb into car bodies or camper-trailers.

(It was definitely an EAB, and did not live to make a trip anywhere.)

....

And in areas the EAB has run rampant over, can they survive
at a low level on the basal shoots that ash trees put out?

I don't know, but I suspect the answer is no - unless the bugs waited
around until those shoots got large enough to produce bark thick enough
to make a habitat for them again (10-15 years or so) - but they would
have to do that by feeding on current ash trees within a 2 mile radius
(max) or so.

Given enough territory and enough not-quite-dead ash trees it might
be just barely possible (if extremely unlikely). I was rather haunted
by descriptions of chestnut trees still throwing up shoots, only to have
the blight take the new shoots, too.


It's a whole lot better if we can educate people to understand how to
eliminate this critter - but it takes everyone's involvement.

This beetle is no respector of healthy trees. It mowed down everything
around here. Proper pruning, watering, mulching, and fertilizing is
not going to help that much when the bark of your neighbors' ash trees
is riddled with 'D' shaped exit holes.


Not every green bug is an EAB, but if you're absolutely sure the one you
see is, please squash him a.s.a.p.

I'd hope if you were in an area where the EAB is not known to be already
established, you might also consider telling someone about it.
--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)