Hi,
Have just (mechanically) cleared 0.25 acres of old and impenetrable rododendron, and having removed the roots, will rotovate and overlay with 6" of soil/sand/loam mix before laying a new lawn.

However, I'm expecting some potential problems:

First, I'm aware that the rhododendron is toxic to other plants, and I'm trying to understand what may not be plantable in the reclaimed land (ie. lawn, laurel, fruit trees etc). And also what might be done to neutralise this effect.

Second, I'm aware that there is likely to be rhododendron seeds left in the ground, which will doubtless sprout. Will glyphosate neutral these, or do I require something different, and will that be fine to seed lawn in mid September.

Any help appreciated.
Kind regards,
David.

Bosseye wrote:
Hi,
Have just (mechanically) cleared 0.25 acres of old and impenetrable
rododendron, and having removed the roots, will rotovate and overlay
with 6" of soil/sand/loam mix before laying a new lawn.

However, I'm expecting some potential problems:

First, I'm aware that the rhododendron is toxic to other plants, and
I'm trying to understand what may not be plantable in the reclaimed
land (ie. lawn, laurel, fruit trees etc). And also what might be done
to neutralise this effect.

Second, I'm aware that there is likely to be rhododendron seeds left in
the ground, which will doubtless sprout. Will glyphosate neutral these,
or do I require something different, and will that be fine to seed lawn
in mid September.

Any help appreciated.
Kind regards,
David.





I don't know where you heard that Rhododendrons are toxic to other
plants. I have many Rhodys planted next to other things and it is not a
problem. I doubt the seeds will be a problem. If perchance a few do
sprout the first mowing will take care of them for good.


--

Travis in Shoreline Washington

Bosseye wrote:

Have just (mechanically) cleared 0.25 acres of old and impenetrable
rododendron, and having removed the roots, will rotovate and overlay
with 6" of soil/sand/loam mix before laying a new lawn.
First, I'm aware that the rhododendron is toxic to other plants, and
I'm trying to understand what may not be plantable in the reclaimed
land (ie. lawn, laurel, fruit trees etc). And also what might be done
to neutralise this effect.

This is a weak effect. I think with what you are doing, you will be OK.
You are removing Rhododendron ponticum and it does has some allelopathic
properties. They seem to inhibit germination of seedlings or the
development of seedlings as reported in:

http://www.countrysideinfo.co.uk/rhododen.htm

Second, I'm aware that there is likely to be rhododendron seeds left in
the ground, which will doubtless sprout. Will glyphosate neutral these,
or do I require something different, and will that be fine to seed lawn
in mid September.

Glyphosate has no effect on seeds. It enters green tissue and poisons
the roots. It works best on mature plants that are translocating sugars
to the roots.

Travis wrote:

I don't know where you heard that Rhododendrons are toxic to other
plants. I have many Rhodys planted next to other things and it is not a
problem. I doubt the seeds will be a problem. If perchance a few do
sprout the first mowing will take care of them for good.

I doubt if you plant much seed under your rhododendrons. The
allelopathy affects seedlings, not plants. There is current research
showing that there is some evidence that some rhododendrons including R.
ponticum and R. maximum are allelopathic. It seems to be a substance
that inhibits the germination of competing seeds or prevents mycorrhizal
development of competing roots. Junipers have a similar effect. I have
noted that few weeds start under my rhododendrons or my junipers.
References to current research:

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache...ology.uga.edu/
publications/1412.pdf+rhododendron+allelopathic&hl=en&ct=clnk&c d=1&gl=us&
client=firefox-a

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache...ology.uga.edu/
publications/122.pdf+rhododendron+allelopathic&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd =2&gl=us&c
lient=firefox-a

http://www.amjbot.org/cgi/content/full/86/11/1597

http://www.amjbot.org/cgi/content/abstract/86/11/1597

http://www.spri.cam.ac.uk/~ojm21/rhodo.htm
--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
Visit my Rhododendron and Azalea web pages at:
http://rhodyman.net/rahome.html
Also visit the Rhododendron and Azalea Bookstore at:
http://rhodyman.net/rabooks.html
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA Zone 6

http://www.countrysideinfo.co.uk/rhododen.htm

Wow. Very interesting.

My first thought is that you apparently have soil which is good for
plants of the heath family (cranberry, bilberry, heath, lingonberry
aka cowberry, etc), so you could try a few of those.

I'm jealous. My soil is not acidic enough, so we try to amend it.
Not sure how long we'll keep up trying, and when we'll give up.

Do you have trees with their root zones in this area?

--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

"Bosseye" wrote in message
...

Hi,
Have just (mechanically) cleared 0.25 acres of old and impenetrable
rododendron, and having removed the roots, will rotovate and overlay
with 6" of soil/sand/loam mix before laying a new lawn.

However, I'm expecting some potential problems:

First, I'm aware that the rhododendron is toxic to other plants, and
I'm trying to understand what may not be plantable in the reclaimed
land (ie. lawn, laurel, fruit trees etc). And also what might be done
to neutralise this effect.

Second, I'm aware that there is likely to be rhododendron seeds left in
the ground, which will doubtless sprout. Will glyphosate neutral these,
or do I require something different, and will that be fine to seed lawn
in mid September.

Any help appreciated.
Kind regards,
David.




--
Bosseye

Thanks to all the posters so far - I'm rather amazed at the response!

Actually, I do have tree root structures in this ground, principally three large oaks, and I would not wish to do anything do harm them. Also three holly. Why - is there something important I'm missing the trees?

br/David

Bosseye wrote:
Thanks to all the posters so far - I'm rather amazed at the response!

Actually, I do have tree root structures in this ground, principally
three large oaks, and I would not wish to do anything do harm them.
Also three holly. Why - is there something important I'm missing
the trees?

br/David

symplastless;739317 Wrote:
Do you have trees with their root zones in this area?

--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep
reminding us
that we are not the boss.

"Bosseye" wrote in message
...-

Hi,
Have just (mechanically) cleared 0.25 acres of old and impenetrable
rododendron, and having removed the roots, will rotovate and overlay
with 6" of soil/sand/loam mix before laying a new lawn.

However, I'm expecting some potential problems:

First, I'm aware that the rhododendron is toxic to other plants, and
I'm trying to understand what may not be plantable in the reclaimed
land (ie. lawn, laurel, fruit trees etc). And also what might be
done
to neutralise this effect.

Second, I'm aware that there is likely to be rhododendron seeds left
in
the ground, which will doubtless sprout. Will glyphosate neutral
these,
or do I require something different, and will that be fine to seed
lawn
in mid September.

Any help appreciated.
Kind regards,
David.

It is probably not a good idea to be placing 6" of soil on top of any
tree roots much less rototilling them.

--

Travis in Shoreline Washington

Thanks Travis,
The trees are at the edges of the land, and thankfully the edges that will only need about 1" of soil to make the plot level (as a tilth in which to seed). Rotovating was an issue I'd considered, and had planned to hoe the 6' around the trees by hand so as to avoid any root damage. Is this adequate, or is there something else I should know? Again, much thanks,
David.

Bosseye wrote:
Thanks Travis,
The trees are at the edges of the land, and thankfully the edges that
will only need about 1" of soil to make the plot level (as a tilth in
which to seed). Rotovating was an issue I'd considered, and had
planned to hoe the 6' around the trees by hand so as to avoid any root
damage. Is this adequate, or is there something else I should know?
Again, much thanks,
David.

Travis;739864 Wrote:
Bosseye wrote:-
Thanks to all the posters so far - I'm rather amazed at the response!

Actually, I do have tree root structures in this ground, principally
three large oaks, and I would not wish to do anything do harm them.
Also three holly. Why - is there something important I'm missing
the trees?

br/David

symplastless;739317 Wrote: -
Do you have trees with their root zones in this area?

--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep
reminding us
that we are not the boss.

"Bosseye" wrote in message
...-

Hi,
Have just (mechanically) cleared 0.25 acres of old and impenetrable
rododendron, and having removed the roots, will rotovate and overlay
with 6" of soil/sand/loam mix before laying a new lawn.

However, I'm expecting some potential problems:

First, I'm aware that the rhododendron is toxic to other plants, and
I'm trying to understand what may not be plantable in the reclaimed
land (ie. lawn, laurel, fruit trees etc). And also what might be
done
to neutralise this effect.

Second, I'm aware that there is likely to be rhododendron seeds left
in
the ground, which will doubtless sprout. Will glyphosate neutral
these,
or do I require something different, and will that be fine to seed
lawn
in mid September.

Any help appreciated.
Kind regards,
David.--

It is probably not a good idea to be placing 6" of soil on top of any
tree roots much less rototilling them.

--

Travis in Shoreline Washington





I wouldn't plant anything within the drip line. If the Oaks are native
they will get enough water from the sky but if you plant anything under
them you will need to water and that might be too much for the Oaks.

--

Travis in Shoreline Washington

Travis wrote:

I wouldn't plant anything within the drip line. If the Oaks are native
they will get enough water from the sky but if you plant anything under
them you will need to water and that might be too much for the Oaks.

No one in Pennsylvania waters oak trees and everyone has something
planted underneath. Oaks are a favorite shade tree for rhododendrons
and azaleas. If people didn't plant under oaks, there would not be many
rhododendron and azalea gardens left. Most parks have grass doing quite
well under oaks. So, I think it depends upon what is planted under the
oaks.
--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
Visit my Rhododendron and Azalea web pages at:
http://rhodyman.net/rahome.html
Also visit the Rhododendron and Azalea Bookstore at:
http://rhodyman.net/rabooks.html
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA Zone 6

On Aug 19, 1:12 pm, Stephen Henning wrote:
Travis wrote:
I wouldn't plant anything within the drip line. If the Oaks are native
they will get enough water from the sky but if you plant anything under
them you will need to water and that might be too much for the Oaks.

No one in Pennsylvania waters oak trees and everyone has something
planted underneath. Oaks are a favorite shade tree for rhododendrons
and azaleas. If people didn't plant under oaks, there would not be many
rhododendron and azalea gardens left. Most parks have grass doing quite
well under oaks. So, I think it depends upon what is planted under the
oaks.
--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
Visit my Rhododendron and Azalea web pages at:
http://rhodyman.net/rahome.html
Also visit the Rhododendron and Azalea Bookstore at:
http://rhodyman.net/rabooks.html
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA Zone 6


It really depends upon where the oaks are. Oaks on the Pacific Coast
have adapted to growing in a no summer rain, dry climate. If plants
that need summer water are grown in the oak's root zone, the trees
may eventually develop oak root fungus. (This is not always true with
nursery grown trees that have grown up with watering). The best
thing to grow under native oaks here is either nothing, or other dry
adapted native plants.
Emilie
NorCal

mleblanca wrote:

It really depends upon where the oaks are. Oaks on the Pacific Coast
have adapted to growing in a no summer rain, dry climate. If plants
that need summer water are grown in the oak's root zone, the trees
may eventually develop oak root fungus. (This is not always true with
nursery grown trees that have grown up with watering). The best
thing to grow under native oaks here is either nothing, or other dry
adapted native plants.

We have as much rain in summer as you do in winter so that is not a
problem in the East. We have hot summers with frequent thunder storms.
We expect about 3 to 4 inches of rain every month during the summer (and
the rest of the year also). I am originally from Oregon, and people in
the East kid about all the rain in the Pacific Northwest. But the fact
is that we get more inches of rain in the East, just not as many days of
rain. I am comparing New York and Philadelphia with Portland and
Seattle. I know that the PNW has rain forests with more and arid
portions with virtually none.
--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
Visit my Rhododendron and Azalea web pages at:
http://rhodyman.net/rahome.html
Also visit the Rhododendron and Azalea Bookstore at:
http://rhodyman.net/rabooks.html
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA Zone 6

On Aug 20, 6:29 am, Stephen Henning wrote:
mleblanca wrote:
It really depends upon where the oaks are. Oaks on the Pacific Coast
have adapted to growing in a no summer rain, dry climate. If plants
that need summer water are grown in the oak's root zone, the trees
may eventually develop oak root fungus. (This is not always true with
nursery grown trees that have grown up with watering). The best
thing to grow under native oaks here is either nothing, or other dry
adapted native plants.

We have as much rain in summer as you do in winter so that is not a
problem in the East. We have hot summers with frequent thunder storms.
We expect about 3 to 4 inches of rain every month during the summer (and
the rest of the year also). I am originally from Oregon, and people in
the East kid about all the rain in the Pacific Northwest. But the fact
is that we get more inches of rain in the East, just not as many days of
rain. I am comparing New York and Philadelphia with Portland and
Seattle. I know that the PNW has rain forests with more and arid
portions with virtually none.
--
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA Zone 6

Oh, I remember all the rain, thunder, and humidity.....
I went from So Cal to Cleveland Ohio and lived there for 20 years.
Now I'm back in Cal, but the north state, about 100 miles from OR
We have fairly cold winters, with about 25-40 inches of rain, but
it's
still all in the winter. Oh, we did have .27 inch this July, very
unusual.
Emilie
NorCal