My yard, which was never in great form, is a complete disaster with
this extended dry hot weather. I'm in Nashville, TN, Zone 7, clay
soil with cruddy subdivision fill dirt over it, and the other areas
limestone with cruddy subdivision fill dirt. Azaleas do poorly for
me, even when not stressed by so much dry, and I've given up on most
of my azaleas. For a partly shady area, (foundation planting), who's
got suggestions for something that is more likely to survive abuse,
like something a bit more native? Up to 3 feet tall would be fine, as
the height difference between the azaleas and the mountain laurels
looks a little silly. For the record, my crape myrtles, despite being
wacked by our hard late spring frost, are doing great, without any
watering (sunnier area), and the mountain laurels (same area as the
azaleas) are also doing well, although I have watered them a bit
recently.

Next and last question - I have some oakleaf hydrangeas by the side of
the house (even shadier area) that are always abused from lack of
water (much more inconvient location to water), so they are scraggly
and poorly filled out. I want to keep them however, as they look so
nice when doing well. When should I prune them to encourage a bushier
growth? If it started to rain soon, would it be awful to prune them
then, because we will have lots more warm weather to follow?

Thanks.

wrote in message
oups.com...
My yard, which was never in great form, is a complete disaster with
this extended dry hot weather. I'm in Nashville, TN, Zone 7, clay
soil with cruddy subdivision fill dirt over it, and the other areas
limestone with cruddy subdivision fill dirt. Azaleas do poorly for
me, even when not stressed by so much dry, and I've given up on most
of my azaleas.

Azaleas are not native to TN. They do much better near the coast east. They
need a damp acid soil to thrive. TN has a dry alkaline soil. It takes a
lot of work to keep them alive in TN. They're not worth the effort and
expense.

For a partly shady area, (foundation planting), who's
got suggestions for something that is more likely to survive abuse,
like something a bit more native?

I have various hollies doing well in partial shade. If your soil is really
poor you'll have to amend it if you want anything to do well.

Next and last question - I have some oakleaf hydrangeas by the side of
the house (even shadier area) that are always abused from lack of
water (much more inconvient location to water), so they are scraggly
and poorly filled out. I want to keep them however, as they look so
nice when doing well. When should I prune them to encourage a bushier
growth? If it started to rain soon, would it be awful to prune them
then, because we will have lots more warm weather to follow?

Are you fertilizing these plants? Soil amendment would also work wonders.
Also, use soaker hoses.


Thanks.

Manelli Family wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...
My yard, which was never in great form, is a complete disaster with
this extended dry hot weather. I'm in Nashville, TN, Zone 7, clay
soil with cruddy subdivision fill dirt over it, and the other areas
limestone with cruddy subdivision fill dirt. Azaleas do poorly for
me, even when not stressed by so much dry, and I've given up on most
of my azaleas.

Azaleas are not native to TN. They do much better near the coast east.
They need a damp acid soil to thrive. TN has a dry alkaline soil. It
takes a lot of work to keep them alive in TN. They're not worth the
effort and expense.

snip...


I wouldn't generalize too much about TN soil. It is a pretty large state
and there are a lot of different conditions. For example one need only
walk through some areas in GSMNP where the trail is a tunnel through
massive rhododendrons for miles on end to estimate how well rhodies and
azaleas grow. My soil locally is relatively acidic. Dry is another
matter -- this year we are _very_ dry but that is not an entirely normal
state of affairs.

--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
http://johnmcgaw.com

First, the biggest problem during drought is over watering. Just moisten
soil enough to provide water to the absorbing, non-woody roots which are in
the upper four inches of soil.

Proper mulching can help you with water. If you are interested in
information on nurse logs which have the potential to become water
reservoirs please let me know.
Proper mulching: Mulching - http://home.ccil.org/~treeman/sub3.html
and
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/M/ Look up "Mulch"

Your question about pruning is a good one. You could prune them after the
flowering. It would be wise to prune to the proper targets. Then there are
two times when small mistakes can make serious problems. When the leaves
are forming (flushing) or when the leaves are falling. proper pruning site.
If I get a chance I will prune a hydrangea and add it to the web site.
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/tree_pruning

Further, no time is a good time to improperly prune.


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.


wrote in message
oups.com...
My yard, which was never in great form, is a complete disaster with
this extended dry hot weather. I'm in Nashville, TN, Zone 7, clay
soil with cruddy subdivision fill dirt over it, and the other areas
limestone with cruddy subdivision fill dirt. Azaleas do poorly for
me, even when not stressed by so much dry, and I've given up on most
of my azaleas. For a partly shady area, (foundation planting), who's
got suggestions for something that is more likely to survive abuse,
like something a bit more native? Up to 3 feet tall would be fine, as
the height difference between the azaleas and the mountain laurels
looks a little silly. For the record, my crape myrtles, despite being
wacked by our hard late spring frost, are doing great, without any
watering (sunnier area), and the mountain laurels (same area as the
azaleas) are also doing well, although I have watered them a bit
recently.

Next and last question - I have some oakleaf hydrangeas by the side of
the house (even shadier area) that are always abused from lack of
water (much more inconvient location to water), so they are scraggly
and poorly filled out. I want to keep them however, as they look so
nice when doing well. When should I prune them to encourage a bushier
growth? If it started to rain soon, would it be awful to prune them
then, because we will have lots more warm weather to follow?

Thanks.

"John McGaw" wrote in message
. ..
Manelli Family wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...
My yard, which was never in great form, is a complete disaster with
this extended dry hot weather. I'm in Nashville, TN, Zone 7, clay
soil with cruddy subdivision fill dirt over it, and the other areas
limestone with cruddy subdivision fill dirt. Azaleas do poorly for
me, even when not stressed by so much dry, and I've given up on most
of my azaleas.

Azaleas are not native to TN. They do much better near the coast east.
They need a damp acid soil to thrive. TN has a dry alkaline soil. It
takes a lot of work to keep them alive in TN. They're not worth the
effort and expense.

snip...


I wouldn't generalize too much about TN soil. It is a pretty large state
and there are a lot of different conditions. For example one need only
walk through some areas in GSMNP where the trail is a tunnel through
massive rhododendrons for miles on end to estimate how well rhodies and
azaleas grow. My soil locally is relatively acidic. Dry is another
matter -- this year we are _very_ dry but that is not an entirely normal
state of affairs.

Yes,... perhaps in the mountains in the Eastern part of the state.
Nashville is as you know the in the middle of the state. Our soil in this
region is dry heavy sticky gladeville clay, and alkaline. It's not very
fertile. It's sits over limestone. Rhodies and Azaleas suffer from
chlorosis here and desiccation in the summer. If you want these mountain
plants to grow and thrive here you have to add sulfur, sand, compost and
peat moss to the heavy clay soil to make it permeable and acidic... and
water, water and water some more. It's not worth the effort here in middle
TN. I have one old azalia left and when it goes that's it.


--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
http://johnmcgaw.com

I agree about the azaleas, the reason I'll leave the last few in is
because . . . they aren't dead yet. But to be more specific to my
original question, what flowering low-lying shrub would be good to
fill in the other spots?

mwright
It's not worth the effort here in middle
TN. I have one old azalia left and when it goes that's it.





--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
http://johnmcgaw.com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

wrote:
I agree about the azaleas, the reason I'll leave the last few in is
because . . . they aren't dead yet. But to be more specific to my
original question, what flowering low-lying shrub would be good to
fill in the other spots?

mwright
It's not worth the effort here in middle
TN. I have one old azalia left and when it goes that's it.


--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
http://johnmcgaw.com- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -


Well, there are other forms of Hydrangea that would probably work
although most of them really want moisture and fair-to-good soil. Since
Hydrangeas bloom on new wood pruning in Autumn or Winter or even very
early Spring is fine. I've pruned back overgrown Hydrangeas (unknown
variety but transplanted from my family's PA homestead and very old)
back to ground level in Winter and within a few years they were back to
3 feet tall and blooming beautifully.

There are a number of native plants which might work in your situation
although they might not qualify as "shrubs". For reference, you might
look at http://www.sunlightgardens.com which is a grower of native
plants a few miles up the road from me. They specialize in natives of
the eastern US and you can probably get some ideas there.

--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
http://johnmcgaw.com

My yard, which was never in great form, is a complete disaster with
this extended dry hot weather. I'm in Nashville, TN, Zone 7, clay

About the only thing I can think of offhand is Callicarpa americana,
beautybush, though it'll grow more than 3 ft over time. Not difficult
to prune, though.

Peonies might work for you, too, but they're not natives.

Remember, even drought-resistant plants need to be watered until they're
well established.

However, if your clay is expansive, you might be better off putting in
drip irrigation around the foundation, to keep the soil (and your slab
or basement) from heaving with changes in soil water content. This is
pretty commonly done in Texas, but I have no idea if it's a good idea
in your part of the world or not.

A commercial site that talks about this:
http://www.foundationwatering.com/canwesolve.aspx

Your soils extension folks and/or the civil engineering folks should be
able to tell you if this is something needed in your area.

Well, there are other forms of Hydrangea that would probably work
although most of them really want moisture and fair-to-good
soil.

One which is likes shade or morning sun (according to one of my books)
is oak-leaf hydrangea:
http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=HYQU3
Native to southern TN and south, but sometimes grown in cultivation
north of there.

Someone also suggested Callicarpa americana. That's a pretty plant
(well, based on the photos; we don't have one yet).
http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=CAAM2
Native range is similar (southern TN and south), although not quite
identical. In cooler climates (zone 6 or so) it will die back to the
ground in winter, but come back from roots. Comes back quickly after
pruning. Drought tolerance is not clear from my books but I'm
guessing it would come back pretty well after most kinds of trauma.

I don't know, these are just a few possibilities among many.

For reference, you might look at http://www.sunlightgardens.com which
is a grower of native plants a few miles up the road from me. They
specialize in natives of the eastern US and you can probably get some
ideas there.

That looks like a great place to browse.

Not everything in their catalog is native, but most are. And for the
most part they are pretty good at telling you where the plant is from.

On 22 Aug 2007 10:43:48 -0400, Jim Kingdon wrote:

Someone also suggested Callicarpa americana. That's a pretty plant
(well, based on the photos; we don't have one yet).
http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=CAAM2
Native range is similar (southern TN and south), although not quite
identical. In cooler climates (zone 6 or so) it will die back to the
ground in winter, but come back from roots. Comes back quickly after
pruning. Drought tolerance is not clear from my books but I'm
guessing it would come back pretty well after most kinds of trauma.

It's really quite an adaptable species... prefers neutral to slightly
alkaline pH, loam or fairly well drained clay, does best in dryish
soils though it'll put up with moist but not waterlogged, drought-tolerant
once established, blooms on new growth. Sun to partial shade.
Pretty good wildlife plant, too.

Maybe not quite as easy to grow as dandelions, but close. g

On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 00:04:15 -0000, wrote:

My yard, which was never in great form, is a complete disaster with
this extended dry hot weather. I'm in Nashville, TN, Zone 7, clay
soil with cruddy subdivision fill dirt over it, and the other areas
limestone with cruddy subdivision fill dirt. Azaleas do poorly for
me, even when not stressed by so much dry, and I've given up on most
of my azaleas. For a partly shady area, (foundation planting), who's
got suggestions for something that is more likely to survive abuse,
like something a bit more native? Up to 3 feet tall would be fine, as
the height difference between the azaleas and the mountain laurels
looks a little silly. For the record, my crape myrtles, despite being
wacked by our hard late spring frost, are doing great, without any
watering (sunnier area), and the mountain laurels (same area as the
azaleas) are also doing well, although I have watered them a bit
recently.

Crepe myrtles will take almost any level of abuse short of a Ford
F350. Azaleas, not so much. Your soil doesn't sound very azalea-ish.
One shrub I can think of that would fit your criteria, and needs very
little care, is nandina. There are dwarf and low-but-not-quite-dwarf
varieties. Perennial grasses could be mixed in. Vitex would also
work, I think. I'm in Mississippi, so I'm a little hotter and about
as dry this summer. These things work here. Also, mulch is your
friend. 3-4" of pine bark mulch, or pine straw, can make a big
difference.

Harry

On Aug 24, 6:42 pm, Harry Boswell hboswell_AT_kudzufiles.com wrote:
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 00:04:15 -0000, wrote:
My yard, which was never in great form, is a complete disaster with
this extended dry hot weather. I'm in Nashville, TN, Zone 7, clay
soil with cruddy subdivision fill dirt over it, and the other areas
limestone with cruddy subdivision fill dirt. Azaleas do poorly for
me, even when not stressed by so much dry, and I've given up on most
of my azaleas. For a partly shady area, (foundation planting), who's
got suggestions for something that is more likely to survive abuse,
like something a bit more native? Up to 3 feet tall would be fine, as
the height difference between the azaleas and the mountain laurels
looks a little silly. For the record, my crape myrtles, despite being
wacked by our hard late spring frost, are doing great, without any
watering (sunnier area), and the mountain laurels (same area as the
azaleas) are also doing well, although I have watered them a bit
recently.

Crepe myrtles will take almost any level of abuse short of a Ford
F350. Azaleas, not so much. Your soil doesn't sound very azalea-ish.
One shrub I can think of that would fit your criteria, and needs very
little care, is nandina. There are dwarf and low-but-not-quite-dwarf
varieties. Perennial grasses could be mixed in. Vitex would also
work, I think. I'm in Mississippi, so I'm a little hotter and about
as dry this summer. These things work here. Also, mulch is your
friend. 3-4" of pine bark mulch, or pine straw, can make a big
difference.

Harry

Good post Harry. These are all good suggestions. They all do very
well in Northern CAlifornia, where summers are _always_ hot and
dry. Mulch is indeed very necessary.
Emilie