"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..

"cat daddy" wrote in message
...

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
news
Any reason why joint compound can't be worked into the soil to add in
nutrients, like calcium, or as a way to control the ph of the soil? I
have
about 3 lbs of the stuff from a previous drywall project and didn't
want
to
toss it out, when I could toss it on the compost pile or toss it in the
dirt
to break down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_compound

"The compound is a complex combination of water, limestone, expanded
perlite, ethylene-vinyl acetate polymer and attapulgite."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene-vinyl_acetate
"EVA is one of the materials popularly known as 'expanded rubber' or
'foam rubber'."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attapulgite
"It is one of the types of fuller's earth."
"Until 2003, it was the active ingredient used in Kaopectate,"


I appreciate the links, I actually already knew what it was made from, but
it was how those ingredients interacted with plants that I was unsure of.

Really the EVA is the only thing that concerns me, but I wouldn't expect
it
to be a large amount of the joint compound. Perlite is another potential
problem, don't have any real knowledge of that stuff and what its good
for.

Perlite's the easy one.... It's probably not expanded in joint compound,
but it is a common ingredient in potting soil. If you're determined to use
this stuff, fill your bucket with water for a thin slurry and let it sit
overnight. Skim off anything that floats and that may get rid of the
vinyl/plastic/rubber crap.
But, I wouldn't bother.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perlite

"In horticulture it makes composts more open to air, while still having
good water-retention properties; it makes a good medium for hydroponics.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"MajorOz" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Aug 22, 6:53 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Eigenvector" wrote in message

. ..





"George.com" wrote in message
...

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
news Any reason why joint compound can't be worked into the soil to add
in
nutrients, like calcium, or as a way to control the ph of the soil?
I
have
about 3 lbs of the stuff from a previous drywall project and didn't
want
to
toss it out, when I could toss it on the compost pile or toss it in
the
dirt
to break down.

I can say that old gib board is reprocessed to get the gypsum out of
it &
then sold as a soil amendment.

rob

That's promising. I was hoping that joint compound didn't contain
something that would be detrimental to plant growth.

I mean this in a good way, but this is the dumbest idea I've heard since
George Bush opened his mouth this morning. You want calcium in your
soil? Go
buy a bag of bone meal for a few bucks.

He asked if he could use it rather than throw it away.. If you have
information that would help him, I am sure it would be welcomed.
Wallboard scrap works nicely in pH control. When I built my pond, I
dumped 30,000 of wallboard scrap in it before it filled. I have the
only alkali (about 7.6) pond in the region, and the fish reproduce
like rabbits.

cheers

oz, who can't help with his question, but won't, here, be nasty


I wasn't being nasty. There's something missing from this discussion.
Haven't you noticed? What's missing is anyone who knows **exactly** what
is in joint compound. As far as throwing it away, why do that? If the
container's sealed properly, it'll last for years.

You were being nasty, or at least that's how it was perceived.

As far as the compound is concerned, what did you think I was going to buy
it from the store and shovel it into my garden? No, its a bunch of drywall
and paper contaminated compound that isn't worth saving. We're talking a
quart or so. So I figure, why not, its useless once it gets contaminated,
so why not roll it back into the garden or compost pile and add the calcium
back in? I admit its probably not the first thing you would think of doing,
but with the exception of the EVA its mostly water and limestone.

On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 07:57:17 -0700, "Eigenvector"
wrote:


"Charles" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 00:14:59 GMT, Charles
wrote:

On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 18:27:38 -0700, "Eigenvector"
wrote:

Any reason why joint compound can't be worked into the soil to add in
nutrients, like calcium, or as a way to control the ph of the soil? I
have
about 3 lbs of the stuff from a previous drywall project and didn't want
to
toss it out, when I could toss it on the compost pile or toss it in the
dirt
to break down.



Here is the URL for an MSDS page for drywall compound.

It's mostly gypsum, here we buy that to add to our soil. It depends
where you are and the condition of your soil whether it would be good
or bad. In any event, nothing bad will happen if you mix it in with
the soil.


Oops, forgot

http://www.cgcinc.com/pdf/MSDS/61-360-035_E.pdf

Thanks for the link, I didn't know the composition amounts. I was concerned
about the EVA portions, but looking at the concentrations they're far too
small to matter in the amounts I'm looking at.

So what is Perlite good for anyway? (so far as plants are concerned anyway)


Nothing much. It is used in potting mixes to open the mix, to let air
down with the roots. It's a high volume, low mass filler.

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"MajorOz" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Aug 22, 6:53 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
"Eigenvector" wrote in message

. ..





"George.com" wrote in message
...

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
news Any reason why joint compound can't be worked into the soil to add
in
nutrients, like calcium, or as a way to control the ph of the soil?
I
have
about 3 lbs of the stuff from a previous drywall project and didn't
want
to
toss it out, when I could toss it on the compost pile or toss it in
the
dirt
to break down.

I can say that old gib board is reprocessed to get the gypsum out of
it &
then sold as a soil amendment.

rob

That's promising. I was hoping that joint compound didn't contain
something that would be detrimental to plant growth.

I mean this in a good way, but this is the dumbest idea I've heard
since
George Bush opened his mouth this morning. You want calcium in your
soil? Go
buy a bag of bone meal for a few bucks.

He asked if he could use it rather than throw it away.. If you have
information that would help him, I am sure it would be welcomed.
Wallboard scrap works nicely in pH control. When I built my pond, I
dumped 30,000 of wallboard scrap in it before it filled. I have the
only alkali (about 7.6) pond in the region, and the fish reproduce
like rabbits.

cheers

oz, who can't help with his question, but won't, here, be nasty


I wasn't being nasty. There's something missing from this discussion.
Haven't you noticed? What's missing is anyone who knows **exactly** what
is in joint compound. As far as throwing it away, why do that? If the
container's sealed properly, it'll last for years.

You were being nasty, or at least that's how it was perceived.

As far as the compound is concerned, what did you think I was going to buy
it from the store and shovel it into my garden? No, its a bunch of
drywall and paper contaminated compound that isn't worth saving. We're
talking a quart or so. So I figure, why not, its useless once it gets
contaminated, so why not roll it back into the garden or compost pile and
add the calcium back in? I admit its probably not the first thing you
would think of doing, but with the exception of the EVA its mostly water
and limestone.


I wasn't being nasty at all. I was just stating a fact based on the
available information, which, by the way, did NOT include the fact that it
was contaminated with debris.

expounded:

I didn't read the other replies yet, but I can deduce it is a
reference to "joint" compound being the stuff which gets rolled up in
rolling paper.

No, V, joint compound is used in wallboarding, it's what you smooth
over the joints (yet another reference! G).
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

In article ,
Ann wrote:

expounded:

I didn't read the other replies yet, but I can deduce it is a
reference to "joint" compound being the stuff which gets rolled up in
rolling paper.

No, V, joint compound is used in wallboarding, it's what you smooth
over the joints (yet another reference! G).

You are all so busted;-)
--
FB - FFF

Billy
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
On 8/23/07 4:38 AM, in article , "George.com"
wrote:


wrote in message
. com...
what is in joint compound???

its sold by the gram round here, or the bullet, not the pound.

rob


You're kidding me! The smallest amount I can buy is about a pint....

C

thats a heck of a lot of oil. You'd need a BIG knife.

rob

On 8/24/07 4:25 AM, in article , "George.com"
wrote:


"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
On 8/23/07 4:38 AM, in article , "George.com"
wrote:


wrote in message
. com...
what is in joint compound???

its sold by the gram round here, or the bullet, not the pound.

rob


You're kidding me! The smallest amount I can buy is about a pint....

C

thats a heck of a lot of oil. You'd need a BIG knife.

rob



I can be so naïve.....
C

On 8/24/07 8:50 AM, in article ,
" wrote:

On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 07:39:00 -0400, Cheryl Isaak
wrote:

I can be so naïve.....
C

Hey, naive is a good thing. I wish I was. Unfortunately, I can't
unring the bell of life.

v


What makes this all so funny is that DS managed to stretch hard enough (pre
cast) to put a hole in the wall. Which I now need either mend myself or
hire someone to do the job and I was thinking it would be a clever use of
any scraps if I really could compost them...

C

On 8/24/07 12:07 PM, in article ,
" wrote:

On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 09:04:27 -0400, Cheryl Isaak
wrote:

On 8/24/07 8:50 AM, in article ,
" wrote:

On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 07:39:00 -0400, Cheryl Isaak
wrote:

I can be so naïve.....
C

Hey, naive is a good thing. I wish I was. Unfortunately, I can't
unring the bell of life.

v


What makes this all so funny is that DS managed to stretch hard enough (pre
cast) to put a hole in the wall. Which I now need either mend myself or
hire someone to do the job and I was thinking it would be a clever use of
any scraps if I really could compost them...

C

I see...you are WAY over the naive line, in that case!
Yes M'am!
C

Calcium is an element not a nutrient. Comosted wood and nurse logs add
calcium, the element.


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
news
Any reason why joint compound can't be worked into the soil to add in
nutrients, like calcium, or as a way to control the ph of the soil? I
have about 3 lbs of the stuff from a previous drywall project and didn't
want to toss it out, when I could toss it on the compost pile or toss it
in the dirt to break down.

"symplastless" wrote in message
. ..
Calcium is an element not a nutrient. Comosted wood and nurse logs add
calcium, the element.


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman

I'll have to remember that, although you'll also have to explain what
comosted means - since you chose to get technical. Might as well go all out
and learn all I can.


"Eigenvector" wrote in message
news
Any reason why joint compound can't be worked into the soil to add in
nutrients, like calcium, or as a way to control the ph of the soil? I
have about 3 lbs of the stuff from a previous drywall project and didn't
want to toss it out, when I could toss it on the compost pile or toss it
in the dirt to break down.

"Nutrients
Nutrients are those organic and inorganic compounds that a living
organism must acquire from the environment to support essential life
processes, including basal metabolism, growth and maintenance of body
tissues, activity, reproduction, and maintenance of general health.
Nutrients are normally obtained by the ingestion of foods. Organic
nutrients include carbohydrates, proteins or amino acids, lipids, and
vitamins. Inorganic nutrients include minerals. Water is sometimes
included in a listing of nutrients."

scientifically speaking, calcium is both an element and a nutrient.
Few elements are found in an unreactive state, calcium is not one of
them. Ingrid


Calcium is an element not a nutrient. Comosted wood and nurse logs add
calcium, the element.

No the are elements

Food is a substance that provides and energy source, mostly. Nutrient is a
substance that provides an energy source, elements, and other substances
essential for life, in types and amounts that can provide a healthy life.
Fertilizer is a substance that provides elements, as salts mostly, or in
bonded forms, that require microorganisms to alter to forms that can be
absorbed by plants. I do not call elements - nutrients, however nutrients
would contain elements. You can put a file in a folder but you can't put a
folder in a file. A list of elements can be found he
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...US211%26sa%3DX

17 Elements For Life - Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, Nitrogen, Phosphorus,
Potassium, Calcium, Sulfur, Magnesium, Manganese, Iron, Copper, Boron,
Molybdenum, Chlorine, Zinc, Nickel [Sodium, Cobalt, Selenium?]

14 essential elements are obtained by trees from the soil. I do not have a
list of which ones they are.

Wood is the substrate of the base of the food web, the mycorrhizal fungi.
Mycorrhizae tend to be abundant in composted wood such as nurse logs. We
had great success at tree biology workshops finding mycorrhizae during dryer
times, in and about nurse logs. I believe, you don't have to agree with it,
please, just think. I think that by applying mulch as I recommend under
mulch here that you facilitate the mycorrhizae rather than just adding what
I believe you mean as humus, over a lawn. Not that its bad in any way,
adding humus i.e..

Mulching - http://home.ccil.org/~treeman/sub3.html
and
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/M/ Look up "Mulch"

Did I say - Mycorrhizae are organs that facilitate the absorption of
elements essential for healthy growth. Mycorrhizae resist the Demons Of D.
Mycorrhizae facilitate the absorption of elements. Demons of D are those
things that add up to the big D word DEATH. E.g., Depletion, disruption,
and dysfunction. Elements can be depleted. Disruption, you get hit my a
Mac truck. Dysfunction, some organ such as mycorrhizae may not function.


Major Elements C; H; N; O; P; K; S; Mg; Ni; Fe; Ca; Zn; Mo; Mn; B; Cl; Cu

There is the law of the minimum. It states the element that is deficient
the most, would be the determining factor in the health of the tree.

I think research would be wise in the search for the optimum fertility level
for trees.

I did some soil testing in the upper four inches of soil and from at and
about nurse logs in old growth forest which contain hemlocks and white
pines. And much more. Here is my average on my testing for the latter.
These where five test. 3 test sites where in Allegheny National
Forest(Hearts Content) Pennsylvania
and two where in Allegheny National Forest(Tionesta Scenic area)
Pennsylvania.
Results are in Pounds Per Acre PPA. AVAILABLE ELEMENTS
P 8.2
K 236
Mg 107
Ca 594
Al 220.6
Fe 110.8
Mn 118.6
Zn 11.96
NO3-N 28.8
Did not get B or CU.
Organic matter was 29.32%
Ex Acidity 81 ME/100G
Salts mmho: 0.01 mmho/cm
Moisture %3.97
Water Soluble mg/kg B 1.0738
ACID Soluble (mg/kg)
Cd 0.976
Cu 6.768
Ni 5.71 (Penn State discovered the element Ni to be essential in small
amounts)
Mn 426.378
Co 3.084
Zn 46.818
Pb 101.792
Cr 5.078
P 726.226
The CARBON TO NITROGEN RATION was 27:1
pH 4.2 WOW

That would be a goal of mine if I was going to provide essential elements
professionally. I did not see to many people in the old growth sections.

There was more calcium at a nurse logs in a separate test.

We don't feed trees, however, we can feed the soil with composted wood
(chips and nurse logs) and leaves. We can feed the system.

I have some results for some sick hemlocks (elements in soil)


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.






wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 18:20:58 -0400, "symplastless"
wrote:

Calcium is an element not a nutrient. Comosted wood and nurse logs add
calcium, the element.

Nitrogen, phosphorous, potassium, iron, copper, maganese are also
elements and also nutrients when used by plants after breaking down
into forms root hairs can uptake those nutrients.

Composted means the symplast has died and the wood has begun to break down.


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..

"symplastless" wrote in message
. ..
Calcium is an element not a nutrient. Comosted wood and nurse logs add
calcium, the element.


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman

I'll have to remember that, although you'll also have to explain what
comosted means - since you chose to get technical. Might as well go all
out and learn all I can.


"Eigenvector" wrote in message
news
Any reason why joint compound can't be worked into the soil to add in
nutrients, like calcium, or as a way to control the ph of the soil? I
have about 3 lbs of the stuff from a previous drywall project and didn't
want to toss it out, when I could toss it on the compost pile or toss it
in the dirt to break down.