Hi everyone - I am planning on putting in a brick patio in my backyard
and would like to put it next to a large pine tree (50 feet tall). My
question is this - wince I need to dig down 6 - 8 inches to lay the
foundational aggregate and the resulting brick patio literally right
next to the tree, will I cause any permanent damage to the tree (or
even kill it), by removing any roots within those 6 - 8"?

Thanks!

wrote in message
...
Hi everyone - I am planning on putting in a brick patio in my backyard
and would like to put it next to a large pine tree (50 feet tall). My
question is this - wince I need to dig down 6 - 8 inches to lay the
foundational aggregate and the resulting brick patio literally right
next to the tree, will I cause any permanent damage to the tree (or
even kill it), by removing any roots within those 6 - 8"?

Thanks!


Yes, you will cause damage to the tree. Worse case scenario would be die
back from either missing roots, or from a pathogen interring the tree from
the root damage. Typically, die back could occur within 5 years after such
types of construction, you get past that period of time, and you should be
alright.

Even if it doesn't damage the tree, the tree roots will likely damage your
patio. Ever see what happens when you plant a tree right next to a sidewalk?
Where I live, some genious came along and planted these big trees along the
sidewalks (or maybe the put the sidewalk next to the trees?) and now the
sidewalks are so badly buckled, they are dangerous to walk on.

Removing the roots won't stop this, they grow back. I would not put any type
of cement or brick work next a tree.

wrote in message
...
Hi everyone - I am planning on putting in a brick patio in my backyard
and would like to put it next to a large pine tree (50 feet tall). My
question is this - wince I need to dig down 6 - 8 inches to lay the
foundational aggregate and the resulting brick patio literally right
next to the tree, will I cause any permanent damage to the tree (or
even kill it), by removing any roots within those 6 - 8"?

Thanks!

On Fri, 7 Mar 2008 09:56:40 -0800 (PST),
" wrote:

Hi everyone - I am planning on putting in a brick patio in my backyard
and would like to put it next to a large pine tree (50 feet tall). My
question is this - wince I need to dig down 6 - 8 inches to lay the
foundational aggregate and the resulting brick patio literally right
next to the tree, will I cause any permanent damage to the tree (or
even kill it), by removing any roots within those 6 - 8"?

Thanks!


Possibly. To keep a tree healthy, best to leave it alone.

In article
,
" wrote:

Hi everyone - I am planning on putting in a brick patio in my backyard
and would like to put it next to a large pine tree (50 feet tall). My
question is this - wince I need to dig down 6 - 8 inches to lay the
foundational aggregate and the resulting brick patio literally right
next to the tree, will I cause any permanent damage to the tree (or
even kill it), by removing any roots within those 6 - 8"?

Thanks!

Gymosperms don't have tap roots. They only have the shallow surface
roots. What you are planning will weaken the tree. How far is your house
from this tree? Do you ever have high winds? If it is within stricking
distance of any house, you may want to remove it for your own peace of
mind.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi
Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article
,
" wrote:

Hi everyone - I am planning on putting in a brick patio in my backyard
and would like to put it next to a large pine tree (50 feet tall). My
question is this - wince I need to dig down 6 - 8 inches to lay the
foundational aggregate and the resulting brick patio literally right
next to the tree, will I cause any permanent damage to the tree (or
even kill it), by removing any roots within those 6 - 8"?

Thanks!

Gymosperms don't have tap roots. They only have the shallow surface
roots. What you are planning will weaken the tree. How far is your house
from this tree? Do you ever have high winds? If it is within striking
distance of any house, you may want to remove it for your own peace of
mind.

The tree, not the house but really depends on how you feel about them.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi
Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml

In article
,
" wrote:

Hi everyone - I am planning on putting in a brick patio in my backyard
and would like to put it next to a large pine tree (50 feet tall). My
question is this - wince I need to dig down 6 - 8 inches to lay the
foundational aggregate and the resulting brick patio literally right
next to the tree, will I cause any permanent damage to the tree (or
even kill it), by removing any roots within those 6 - 8"?

Thanks!

It's russian roulette. I've seen profound damage done to tree roots --
builders taking out ALL the roots on one side of a whole row of trees --
and the trees never showed no sign of noticing. Yet I know of people who
didn't hurt a tree's roots at all but managed to kill a tree by building a
raised bed over shallow roots that didn't like finding themselves deeper.

In any case it'll take three or four years to know if you've doomed a
tree, not apt to quickly reveal if it's hurt or okay. In the meantime,
pines and firs can be very prone to blow-down when roots weaken even if
the tree looks healthy. So you might want to assess which way the winds
usually blow and if it's more apt to fall on your roof or the neighbor's.

You might look at the layout you're planning and see if there isn't an
attractive way to have a wood "step up" part of the patio then you could
build a little raised wooden walkway around the tree not even touching the
ground over shallow roots.

-paghat the ratgirl
--
visit my temperate gardening website:
http://www.paghat.com.html
visit my film reviews webiste:
http://www.weirdwildrealm.com

On Mar 7, 4:47 pm, (paghat) wrote:
In article
,

" wrote:
Hi everyone - I am planning on putting in a brick patio in my backyard
and would like to put it next to a large pine tree (50 feet tall). My
question is this - wince I need to dig down 6 - 8 inches to lay the
foundational aggregate and the resulting brick patio literally right
next to the tree, will I cause any permanent damage to the tree (or
even kill it), by removing any roots within those 6 - 8"?

Thanks!

It's russian roulette. I've seen profound damage done to tree roots --
builders taking out ALL the roots on one side of a whole row of trees --
and the trees never showed no sign of noticing. Yet I know of people who
didn't hurt a tree's roots at all but managed to kill a tree by building a
raised bed over shallow roots that didn't like finding themselves deeper.

In any case it'll take three or four years to know if you've doomed a
tree, not apt to quickly reveal if it's hurt or okay. In the meantime,
pines and firs can be very prone to blow-down when roots weaken even if
the tree looks healthy. So you might want to assess which way the winds
usually blow and if it's more apt to fall on your roof or the neighbor's.

You might look at the layout you're planning and see if there isn't an
attractive way to have a wood "step up" part of the patio then you could
build a little raised wooden walkway around the tree not even touching the
ground over shallow roots.

-paghat the ratgirl
--
visit my temperate gardening website:http://www.paghat.com.html
visit my film reviews webiste:http://www.weirdwildrealm.com

That's not a bad idea actually - thanks! I have a follow up question
to my original post however. How far should I be from the tree in
order to reduce the damage? Should I go out to at least the drip
line? I really wanted to have some portion of the patio under the
tree because it is the only shade I have in this area.

On Mar 7, 6:48 pm, "
wrote:
On Mar 7, 4:47 pm, (paghat) wrote:



In article
,

" wrote:
Hi everyone - I am planning on putting in a brick patio in my backyard
and would like to put it next to a large pine tree (50 feet tall). My
question is this - wince I need to dig down 6 - 8 inches to lay the
foundational aggregate and the resulting brick patio literally right
next to the tree, will I cause any permanent damage to the tree (or
even kill it), by removing any roots within those 6 - 8"?

Thanks!

It's russian roulette. I've seen profound damage done to tree roots --
builders taking out ALL the roots on one side of a whole row of trees --
and the trees never showed no sign of noticing. Yet I know of people who
didn't hurt a tree's roots at all but managed to kill a tree by building a
raised bed over shallow roots that didn't like finding themselves deeper.

In any case it'll take three or four years to know if you've doomed a
tree, not apt to quickly reveal if it's hurt or okay. In the meantime,
pines and firs can be very prone to blow-down when roots weaken even if
the tree looks healthy. So you might want to assess which way the winds
usually blow and if it's more apt to fall on your roof or the neighbor's.

You might look at the layout you're planning and see if there isn't an
attractive way to have a wood "step up" part of the patio then you could
build a little raised wooden walkway around the tree not even touching the
ground over shallow roots.

-paghat the ratgirl
--
visit my temperate gardening website:http://www.paghat.com.html
visit my film reviews webiste:http://www.weirdwildrealm.com

That's not a bad idea actually - thanks! I have a follow up question
to my original post however. How far should I be from the tree in
order to reduce the damage? Should I go out to at least the drip
line? I really wanted to have some portion of the patio under the
tree because it is the only shade I have in this area.

I just did some Google-ing and I think I found my answer from the link
http://www.ianrpubs.unl.edu/epublic/...licationId=226

"A brick or patio walkway that uses a sand base and a geotextile
underlay allow oxygen and water to penetrate into the soil below
(Figure 5). Sidewalks that must pass within the PRZ should be located
a minimum of 3 feet away from the tree trunk. Raised wood decks are an
excellent alternative to concrete patios because tree root disruption
is minimized."

So 3 feet appears to be the proper distance (at a minimum). Anyone
out there disagree?

In article
,
" wrote:

On Mar 7, 6:48 pm, "
wrote:
On Mar 7, 4:47 pm, (paghat) wrote:



In article
,

" wrote:
Hi everyone - I am planning on putting in a brick patio in my backyard
and would like to put it next to a large pine tree (50 feet tall). My
question is this - wince I need to dig down 6 - 8 inches to lay the
foundational aggregate and the resulting brick patio literally right
next to the tree, will I cause any permanent damage to the tree (or
even kill it), by removing any roots within those 6 - 8"?

Thanks!

It's russian roulette. I've seen profound damage done to tree roots --
builders taking out ALL the roots on one side of a whole row of trees --
and the trees never showed no sign of noticing. Yet I know of people who
didn't hurt a tree's roots at all but managed to kill a tree by building a
raised bed over shallow roots that didn't like finding themselves deeper.

In any case it'll take three or four years to know if you've doomed a
tree, not apt to quickly reveal if it's hurt or okay. In the meantime,
pines and firs can be very prone to blow-down when roots weaken even if
the tree looks healthy. So you might want to assess which way the winds
usually blow and if it's more apt to fall on your roof or the neighbor's.

You might look at the layout you're planning and see if there isn't an
attractive way to have a wood "step up" part of the patio then you could
build a little raised wooden walkway around the tree not even touching the
ground over shallow roots.

-paghat the ratgirl
--
visit my temperate gardening website:http://www.paghat.com.html
visit my film reviews webiste:http://www.weirdwildrealm.com

That's not a bad idea actually - thanks! I have a follow up question
to my original post however. How far should I be from the tree in
order to reduce the damage? Should I go out to at least the drip
line? I really wanted to have some portion of the patio under the
tree because it is the only shade I have in this area.

I just did some Google-ing and I think I found my answer from the link
http://www.ianrpubs.unl.edu/epublic/...licationId=226

"A brick or patio walkway that uses a sand base and a geotextile
underlay allow oxygen and water to penetrate into the soil below
(Figure 5). Sidewalks that must pass within the PRZ should be located
a minimum of 3 feet away from the tree trunk. Raised wood decks are an
excellent alternative to concrete patios because tree root disruption
is minimized."

So 3 feet appears to be the proper distance (at a minimum). Anyone
out there disagree?

You really don't want any compaction between the trunk and the drip
line. Stick with the deck.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi
Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml

Very good question!!!!!!

YES!!!!!!!

Most of you non-woody roots are in the upper 4 inches of soil most of the time. many woody roots can be in upper 9".

#1 See - Troubles in the Rhizosphere for starters
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/RHIZO.html

#2 See Roots:
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/R/roots.html


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Forester & Tree Expert
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us that we are not the boss.



See Troubles in the Rhizo
wrote in message ...
Hi everyone - I am planning on putting in a brick patio in my backyard
and would like to put it next to a large pine tree (50 feet tall). My
question is this - wince I need to dig down 6 - 8 inches to lay the
foundational aggregate and the resulting brick patio literally right
next to the tree, will I cause any permanent damage to the tree (or
even kill it), by removing any roots within those 6 - 8"?

Thanks!

"Don Staples" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
Hi everyone - I am planning on putting in a brick patio in my backyard
and would like to put it next to a large pine tree (50 feet tall). My
question is this - wince I need to dig down 6 - 8 inches to lay the
foundational aggregate and the resulting brick patio literally right
next to the tree, will I cause any permanent damage to the tree (or
even kill it), by removing any roots within those 6 - 8"?

Thanks!


Yes, you will cause damage to the tree. Worse case scenario would be die
back from either missing roots, or from a pathogen interring the tree from
the root damage. Typically, die back could occur within 5 years after
such types of construction, you get past that period of time, and you
should be alright.


I agree with Don Staples. Oaks in my area take 5 years at least for healthy
ones to start with. Tulip poplar trees forget it they are a goner.
I dug out my parents turf around a J. maple and placed fresh chips down and
it took over 13 years for the tree to stop producing leaves. I will place a
cross section under scope and see when decline started. Any way I agree
with Don. Pines in southern Louisiana took 9 years. We were doing an
autopsy on pines that became symplastless and bark beetles were present. It
turned out when we took a closer look that the decline started 9 years
before our autopsy and that was when the drive way was put in. So the bark
beetles were secondary agents and not the cause. It took at least 8 years
for the trees to become symplastless and stop producing needles. They were
healthy until the drive way went in. It was kind of interesting because at
that time I offered $200.00 to anyone who could provide a sample that showed
that bark beetles were the primary cause of a tree becoming symplastless.
For those who would like to know what I mean when I say symplastless:
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT20...plastless.html

--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Forester & Tree Expert
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

That's not a bad idea actually - thanks! I have a follow up question
to my original post however. How far should I be from the tree in
order to reduce the damage?
As far as possible. place a fence as a barrier to keep yourself from
compacting the soil. Compacting the soil of pine is a serious problem.


Should I go out to at least the drip
line?

YES

I really wanted to have some portion of the patio under the
tree because it is the only shade I have in this area.

If the symplast dies from compaction or removal on non-woody roots you will
not have shade for long.

Why not raise the patio? Contact me to discuss if interested. 610-864-5251
If not, ok then.

--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Forester & Tree Expert
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

In article ,
"symplastless" wrote:

That's not a bad idea actually - thanks! I have a follow up question
to my original post however. How far should I be from the tree in
order to reduce the damage?
As far as possible. place a fence as a barrier to keep yourself from
compacting the soil. Compacting the soil of pine is a serious problem.


Should I go out to at least the drip
line?

YES

I really wanted to have some portion of the patio under the
tree because it is the only shade I have in this area.

If the symplast dies from compaction or removal on non-woody roots you will
not have shade for long.

Why not raise the patio? Contact me to discuss if interested. 610-864-5251
If not, ok then.

See how your responses improved with time? Don't be so impulsive,
reflect. This response wasn't your normal response, it was much better.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/