Has anybody done any SHIGOMETRY work in Allegheny National Forest (ANF) PA
area? I have and have means for CER of



Tionesta Area PA: On 8/26/1999 (Does anybody know about when the cambium
zone goes back into the resting stage in this area?)
Eastern Hemlock (have mean for this stage) canopy

American Beech (have mean for this stage) canopy



Cook State Park Forest PA: On 8/29/1999 (does anybody know about when the
cambium zone goes back into the resting stage in this area for these
species?)

Black Cherry (have mean for this stage) canopy

White Pine (have mean for this stage) canopy

American Beech (have mean for this stage) canopy



- - - - - - -- -

Maryland in Buffer Zone with old growth conditions

Cornus florida on 9/5/99 - 9/6/99 (have mean for this stage) Cambium zone
in resting stage. Understory

Oak, Swamp White Oak on 9/5/99 - 9/6/99 and 9/12/1999 (have mean for this
stage) canopy

Tulip Poplar on 9/5/99 - 9/6/99 and 9/12/1999 (have mean for this stage)
canopy


- - - - - - - - - -



Does anybody have any means they can share on CER for these species? Any
mean for Mountain Laurel in its two stages?



Can anybody share some of the numbers for the wire probe with heartwood
forming and sapwood only - forming trees, specifying the readings for
differences between heartwood, sapwood, color altered or discolored
heartwood, color altered and discolored sapwood (thus addressing wood
quality)? I am going to start making a data base on wire probe results for
the 10 most common trees in my area and would greatly like to share results
with other SHIGOMETRIST.



Also has anyone detect the quality of wood products with the needle probe
and deionized(sic) water? What were your readings for sound wood and what
were you readings for leaky wood? Of course the species specific rule
applies. Also does anyone have any thoughts on the importance of phenology
with this research?



This weekend I will be visiting with a customer who is interested in doing
some tree farming (thinning) and desires to consider tree biology when
selecting trees and health issues such as the ecological stages of trees and
course woody debris. We will be using the SHIGOMETER if it is not raining
and the temp. is above 40 degrees f. to select trees for harvest. Of course
we will have to separate suppressed and trees such as canopy. This research
is really what I like to do. The customer also is an organic gardener,
starting a garden, and we will be hauling and selling a load of certified
organic mushroom soil to help finance the research project. The customer
has a wonderful bed and breakfast which will make the work unique. If
anyone has any last minute thoughts with respect to this type of research
and tree farming please let me know. I guess my control will be past and
future research results from Tionesta, Cook and Maryland. I need to get out
in the forest more to get the data I require for tree farming.



Also does anyone have data on the optimum fertility levels for trees in
Maryland or Pennsylvania? We would like to be able to test soils to see if
specific elements are lacking. Most results from extension service are
based on requirements for corn.



Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Forester & Tree Expert
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

In article . com,
Steve wrote:

On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:39:27 -0400, "symplastless"
wrote:

Has anybody done any SHIGOMETRY work in Allegheny National Forest (ANF) PA
area? I have and have means for CER of
Tionesta Area PA: On 8/26/1999 (Does anybody know about when the cambium
zone goes back into the resting stage in this area?)
Eastern Hemlock (have mean for this stage) canopy

American Beech (have mean for this stage) canopy



Cook State Park Forest PA: On 8/29/1999 (does anybody know about when the
cambium zone goes back into the resting stage in this area for these
species?)

Black Cherry (have mean for this stage) canopy

White Pine (have mean for this stage) canopy

American Beech (have mean for this stage) canopy



- - - - - - -- -

Maryland in Buffer Zone with old growth conditions

Cornus florida on 9/5/99 - 9/6/99 (have mean for this stage) Cambium zone
in resting stage. Understory

Oak, Swamp White Oak on 9/5/99 - 9/6/99 and 9/12/1999 (have mean for this
stage) canopy

Tulip Poplar on 9/5/99 - 9/6/99 and 9/12/1999 (have mean for this stage)
canopy

Vascular? Uh, how 'bout the Fed's gtrne303?

So what your saying is that John should contact these people for
information on the above?


Does anybody have any means they can share on CER for these species? Any
mean for Mountain Laurel in its two stages?


If you mean CO$_2$ exchange rate, again, how 'bout the Fed's
publications?

You mean gtrne303?



Can anybody share some of the numbers for the wire probe with heartwood
forming and sapwood only - forming trees, specifying the readings for
differences between heartwood, sapwood, color altered or discolored
heartwood, color altered and discolored sapwood (thus addressing wood
quality)? I am going to start making a data base on wire probe results for
the 10 most common trees in my area and would greatly like to share results
with other SHIGOMETRIST.



Also has anyone detect the quality of wood products with the needle probe
and deionized(sic) water? What were your readings for sound wood and what
were you readings for leaky wood? Of course the species specific rule
applies. Also does anyone have any thoughts on the importance of phenology
with this research?



This weekend I will be visiting with a customer who is interested in doing
some tree farming (thinning) and desires to consider tree biology when
selecting trees and health issues such as the ecological stages of trees and
course woody debris. We will be using the SHIGOMETER if it is not raining
and the temp. is above 40 degrees f. to select trees for harvest. Of course
we will have to separate suppressed and trees such as canopy. This research
is really what I like to do. The customer also is an organic gardener,
starting a garden, and we will be hauling and selling a load of certified
organic mushroom soil to help finance the research project. The customer
has a wonderful bed and breakfast which will make the work unique. If
anyone has any last minute thoughts with respect to this type of research
and tree farming please let me know. I guess my control will be past and
future research results from Tionesta, Cook and Maryland. I need to get out
in the forest more to get the data I require for tree farming.



Also does anyone have data on the optimum fertility levels for trees in
Maryland or Pennsylvania? We would like to be able to test soils to see if
specific elements are lacking. Most results from extension service are
based on requirements for corn.



Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Forester & Tree Expert
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

OK, I've been nice, but I can't contain myself any longer.
You are a bullshitter. Any fresh-out-of-school state school lawn
mowing nitwit with a 2.0 and a job at Starbucks knows how and where to
access this stuff.
You really are a fraud at worst, and incompetent at best.
Give your clients their deposit back and get the hell out of the
business, if you're not bullshitting about that, too.
At the very least, initiate a lawsuit against whomever gave you your
training and credentials.

A nice run of invectives and ad hominems but it doesn't pass the
empirical test for facts supported by proof (citations).
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

"Steve" wrote in message
ews.com...
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:39:27 -0400, "symplastless"
wrote:

Has anybody done any SHIGOMETRY work in Allegheny National Forest (ANF) PA
area? I have and have means for CER of
Tionesta Area PA: On 8/26/1999 (Does anybody know about when the cambium
zone goes back into the resting stage in this area?)
Eastern Hemlock (have mean for this stage) canopy

American Beech (have mean for this stage) canopy



Cook State Park Forest PA: On 8/29/1999 (does anybody know about when the
cambium zone goes back into the resting stage in this area for these
species?)

Black Cherry (have mean for this stage) canopy

White Pine (have mean for this stage) canopy

American Beech (have mean for this stage) canopy



- - - - - - -- -

Maryland in Buffer Zone with old growth conditions

Cornus florida on 9/5/99 - 9/6/99 (have mean for this stage) Cambium zone
in resting stage. Understory

Oak, Swamp White Oak on 9/5/99 - 9/6/99 and 9/12/1999 (have mean for this
stage) canopy

Tulip Poplar on 9/5/99 - 9/6/99 and 9/12/1999 (have mean for this stage)
canopy

Vascular? Uh, how 'bout the Fed's gtrne303?

Yes, vascular cambial zone of stems. readings actually taken from opposite
sides of the trunk at breast height. I also do work testing the trunk
flares compared to readings at breast height. We can detect certain woody
root declines by readings at trunk flare.


Does anybody have any means they can share on CER for these species? Any
mean for Mountain Laurel in its two stages?


If you mean CO$_2$ exchange rate, again, how 'bout the Fed's

No CER is Cambium Electrical Resistance. Sorry. Yes, the feds have great
pubs on Shigometry and actually I have two that were emailed to me that I
have yet to read. Thanks for reminding me. Most Shigometry work was done
by feds at the NE Experimental Forestry Station in Durham NH, USA. Or
connected to that office.

publications?


Can anybody share some of the numbers for the wire probe with heartwood
forming and sapwood only - forming trees, specifying the readings for
differences between heartwood, sapwood, color altered or discolored
heartwood, color altered and discolored sapwood (thus addressing wood
quality)? I am going to start making a data base on wire probe results
for
the 10 most common trees in my area and would greatly like to share
results
with other SHIGOMETRIST.



Also has anyone detect the quality of wood products with the needle probe
and deionized(sic) water? What were your readings for sound wood and what
were you readings for leaky wood? Of course the species specific rule
applies. Also does anyone have any thoughts on the importance of
phenology
with this research?



This weekend I will be visiting with a customer who is interested in doing
some tree farming (thinning) and desires to consider tree biology when
selecting trees and health issues such as the ecological stages of trees
and
course woody debris. We will be using the SHIGOMETER if it is not raining
and the temp. is above 40 degrees f. to select trees for harvest. Of
course
we will have to separate suppressed and trees such as canopy. This
research
is really what I like to do. The customer also is an organic gardener,
starting a garden, and we will be hauling and selling a load of certified
organic mushroom soil to help finance the research project. The customer
has a wonderful bed and breakfast which will make the work unique. If
anyone has any last minute thoughts with respect to this type of research
and tree farming please let me know. I guess my control will be past and
future research results from Tionesta, Cook and Maryland. I need to get
out
in the forest more to get the data I require for tree farming.



Also does anyone have data on the optimum fertility levels for trees in
Maryland or Pennsylvania? We would like to be able to test soils to see
if
specific elements are lacking. Most results from extension service are
based on requirements for corn.



Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Forester & Tree Expert
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding
us
that we are not the boss.

OK, I've been nice, but I can't contain myself any longer.
You are a bullshitter. Any fresh-out-of-school state school lawn
mowing nitwit with a 2.0 and a job at Starbucks knows how and where to
access this stuff.

Access what?

You really are a fraud at worst, and incompetent at best.
Give your clients their deposit back and get the hell out of the
business, if you're not bullshitting about that, too.
At the very least, initiate a lawsuit against whomever gave you your
training and credentials.

I guess that means you have no fertility levels and no experience with
Shigometry?

What attracts you to my post in the first place?


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Forester & Tree Expert
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

"Steve" wrote in message
ews.com...
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:39:27 -0400, "symplastless"
wrote:



OK, I've been nice, but I can't contain myself any longer.
You are a [snip]fresh-out-of-school state school lawn
mowing nitwit with a 2.0 and a job at Starbucks knows how and where to
access this stuff.
You really are a fraud at worst, and incompetent at best.
Give your clients their deposit back and get the hell out of the
business, if you're not [snip] that, too.
At the very least, initiate a lawsuit against whomever gave you your
training and credentials.


The question was asking people if they had any data they have collected
regarding the use of a SHIGOMETER to detect wood quality and tree vitality.
The SHIGOMETER does hold up in court cases.



--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Forester & Tree Expert
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

"symplastless" wrote in message
. ..

"Steve" wrote in message
ews.com...
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:39:27 -0400, "symplastless"
wrote:



OK, I've been nice, but I can't contain myself any longer.
You are a [snip]fresh-out-of-school state school lawn
mowing nitwit with a 2.0 and a job at Starbucks knows how and where to
access this stuff.
You really are a fraud at worst, and incompetent at best.
Give your clients their deposit back and get the hell out of the
business, if you're not [snip] that, too.
At the very least, initiate a lawsuit against whomever gave you your
training and credentials.


The question was asking people if they had any data they have collected
regarding the use of a SHIGOMETER to detect wood quality and tree
vitality.
The SHIGOMETER does hold up in court cases.



--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting con artist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding
us that we are not the boss.

And how many times have you testified as an "expert" witness with regards to
the shigometer? You are no forester, and no expert.

"Don Staples" wrote in message
...
"symplastless" wrote in message
. ..

"Steve" wrote in message
ews.com...
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:39:27 -0400, "symplastless"
wrote:



OK, I've been nice, but I can't contain myself any longer.
You are a [snip]fresh-out-of-school state school lawn
mowing nitwit with a 2.0 and a job at Starbucks knows how and where to
access this stuff.
You really are a fraud at worst, and incompetent at best.
Give your clients their deposit back and get the hell out of the
business, if you're not [snip] that, too.
At the very least, initiate a lawsuit against whomever gave you your
training and credentials.


The question was asking people if they had any data they have collected
regarding the use of a SHIGOMETER to detect wood quality and tree
vitality.
The SHIGOMETER does hold up in court cases.



--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting con artist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding
us that we are not the boss.

And how many times have you testified as an "expert" witness with regards
to the shigometer? You are no forester, and no expert.


Coming from you Don Staples that's a compliment and off topic as always. I
did not expect you to have a data to provide and was not written to you.
You think everything people write is to you and no way I am seeking your
advise for anything..


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Forester & Tree Expert
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

"Steve" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:55:51 -0500, "Don Staples"
wrote:

"symplastless" wrote in message
m...

"Steve" wrote in message
ews.com...
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:39:27 -0400, "symplastless"
wrote:

You really are a fraud at worst, and incompetent at best.
Give your clients their deposit back and get the hell out of the
business, if you're not [snip] that, too.
At the very least, initiate a lawsuit against whomever gave you your
training and credentials.


The question was asking people if they had any data they have collected
regarding the use of a SHIGOMETER to detect wood quality and tree
vitality.
The SHIGOMETER does hold up in court cases.

--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting con artist


And how many times have you testified as an "expert" witness with regards
to
the shigometer? You are no forester, and no expert.

Obviously.
I gave him the Fed data numbers he asked for and he subsequently
shifts the conversation to whether or not shigometers are valid data
sources.
He's a fraud. This info is available from Jurik, Weber, and Gates'
book, which if he were a forester, or had even ever hired one, he
would have a copy of.
This phony post is tantamount to someone claiming to be an automobile
designer and then asking if a gasoline engine runs on gasoline.
Pffft.

I asked for input on their own experience with a SHIGOMETER. You obviously
have none which is fine. But your comments are unprofessional, rude and
inconsiderate. Do you treat everyone with such respect? I have no idea
what a fed data number is but I do know they have not done optimum fertility
levels for trees or more people would be recommended the use of soil wood
for providing elements, nutrients and residual lignin (soil) required for
growth. Surely the last element a mature requires in nitrogen yet people
out of the ignorance keep prescribing fertilizer applications as if trees
were corn. An application of micro elements would be a great idea. As far
as this fed thing you are talking about , what is the website address?
Again, what are the optimum fertility levels for trees. Let me make it easy
for you. What pH does a eastern hemlock have in old growth in PA?


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Forester & Tree Expert
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

"Steve" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 08:55:51 -0500, "Don Staples"
wrote:

"symplastless" wrote in message
m...

"Steve" wrote in message
ews.com...
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:39:27 -0400, "symplastless"
wrote:

You really are a fraud at worst, and incompetent at best.
Give your clients their deposit back and get the hell out of the
business, if you're not [snip] that, too.
At the very least, initiate a lawsuit against whomever gave you your
training and credentials.


The question was asking people if they had any data they have collected
regarding the use of a SHIGOMETER to detect wood quality and tree
vitality.
The SHIGOMETER does hold up in court cases.

--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting con artist


And how many times have you testified as an "expert" witness with regards
to
the shigometer? You are no forester, and no expert.

Obviously.
I gave him the Fed data numbers he asked for and he subsequently
shifts the conversation to whether or not shigometers are valid data
sources.
He's a fraud. This info is available from Jurik, Weber, and Gates'
book, which if he were a forester, or had even ever hired one, he
would have a copy of.
This phony post is tantamount to someone claiming to be an automobile
designer and then asking if a gasoline engine runs on gasoline.
Pffft.

Steve, if you have the info than please just exlain two things.

Please list the 17 essential elements, tell me which ones come from the soil
and what their level should be (in the soil) for lets say, a eastern
hemlock.
Remeber there is no such thing as a miner element, they are anything but
miner when lacking. Thats why they are called micro elements and not miner.
Dates taken:
pH:
C;
H;
N;
O;
P;
K;
S;
Mg;
Ni;
Fe;
Ca;
Zn;
Mo;
Mn;
B;
Cl;
Cu
Where were these soil samples obtained?

Although may be available outside soil, O must be available in the soil for
respiration.

Then in this book or paper you recommend, what page are the CER (Cambium
Electrical Resistance) means for growing season and resting season of the
stem of an Eastern Hemlock in PA?


In PA for Eastern Hemlock.
How about heartwood to chemically altered heartwood as a result of a wound
or injury? (wire probes)
Sapwood to heartwood? (wire probes)
Sapwood to to chemically altered sapwood from an wound or injury? (wire
probes)


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Forester & Tree Expert
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

In article , "Don Staples"
wrote:

"symplastless" wrote in message
. ..

"Steve" wrote in message
ews.com...
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:39:27 -0400, "symplastless"
wrote:



OK, I've been nice, but I can't contain myself any longer.
You are a [snip]fresh-out-of-school state school lawn
mowing nitwit with a 2.0 and a job at Starbucks knows how and where to
access this stuff.
You really are a fraud at worst, and incompetent at best.
Give your clients their deposit back and get the hell out of the
business, if you're not [snip] that, too.
At the very least, initiate a lawsuit against whomever gave you your
training and credentials.


The question was asking people if they had any data they have collected
regarding the use of a SHIGOMETER to detect wood quality and tree
vitality.
The SHIGOMETER does hold up in court cases.



--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting con artist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding
us that we are not the boss.

And how many times have you testified as an "expert" witness with regards to
the shigometer? You are no forester, and no expert.

Many long years ago, he took a workshop to watch a shigometer being used
in his presence. Every six months since, he's re-started this same topic
again & again, always with the same outcome of him bragging about alleged
expertise. He sometimes tries the gambit of needing information but if
anyone gives it to him, it doesn't change his basic position & all replies
are his excuse for braggadocious posturing.

It's no longer surprising symptomless is a nutter. What's surprising is he
is always the exact same predictable and unchanging nutter, like that guy
who got a part of his brain cut out and can't learn anything new, so for
him it's always the same yesterday. symptomless has no REAL need for
education because in his imaginary world, he possesses all knowledge
required now or in the future.

-paghat the ratgirl
--
visit my temperate gardening website:
http://www.paghat.com.html
visit my film reviews webiste:
http://www.weirdwildrealm.com

"paghat" wrote in message
...
In article , "Don Staples"
wrote:

"symplastless" wrote in message
. ..

"Steve" wrote in message
ews.com...
On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:39:27 -0400, "symplastless"
wrote:



OK, I've been nice, but I can't contain myself any longer.
You are a [snip]fresh-out-of-school state school lawn
mowing nitwit with a 2.0 and a job at Starbucks knows how and where to
access this stuff.
You really are a fraud at worst, and incompetent at best.
Give your clients their deposit back and get the hell out of the
business, if you're not [snip] that, too.
At the very least, initiate a lawsuit against whomever gave you your
training and credentials.


The question was asking people if they had any data they have collected
regarding the use of a SHIGOMETER to detect wood quality and tree
vitality.
The SHIGOMETER does hold up in court cases.



--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting con artist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep
reminding
us that we are not the boss.

And how many times have you testified as an "expert" witness with regards
to
the shigometer? You are no forester, and no expert.

Many long years ago, he took a workshop to watch a shigometer being used
in his presence. Every six months since, he's re-started this same topic
again & again, always with the same outcome of him bragging about alleged
expertise. He sometimes tries the gambit of needing information but if
anyone gives it to him, it doesn't change his basic position & all replies
are his excuse for braggadocious posturing.

It's no longer surprising symptomless is a nutter. What's surprising is he
is always the exact same predictable and unchanging nutter, like that guy
who got a part of his brain cut out and can't learn anything new, so for
him it's always the same yesterday. symptomless has no REAL need for
education because in his imaginary world, he possesses all knowledge
required now or in the future.

-paghat the ratgirl
--
visit my temperate gardening website:
http://www.paghat.com.html
visit my film reviews webiste:
http://www.weirdwildrealm.com

I was addressing the question to people that understand trees. You are way
off topic and ridiculous.


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Forester & Tree Expert
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

In article . com,
Steve wrote:

On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:18:35 -0400, "symplastless"
wrote:

I have no idea
what a fed data number is

'Nuff said.

Say guys, why not take this conversation over to alt.forestry, where
there are lots of people who are interested in this kind of stuff;-)
Besides, it's there turn to take them.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/