This weed, which we call "The Tumor" (in your best Arnold
Schwartzenager voice) is drivng us nuts. It comes on super fast,
grows super fast and returns after we pull it out. Its got prickly
edges. See phot link below.

Is there a chemical based weed killer that can take this out? Preen
did nothing to it. This weed just laughed at Preen.

http://ucemergencymedicineorg.siteprotect.net/weed.jpg

In article
,
wrote:

http://ucemergencymedicineorg.siteprotect.net/weed.jpg

Looks like Thistle to me.

Use a hoe.

Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

Not all who wander are lost.
- J.R.R. Tolkien (1892-1973)

wrote in message
...
This weed, which we call "The Tumor" (in your best Arnold
Schwartzenager voice) is drivng us nuts. It comes on super fast,
grows super fast and returns after we pull it out. Its got prickly
edges. See phot link below.

Is there a chemical based weed killer that can take this out? Preen
did nothing to it. This weed just laughed at Preen.

http://ucemergencymedicineorg.siteprotect.net/weed.jpg


I murder the worst of them by digging REALLY deep around the root system,
lifting the whole thing out, and shaking off the soil.

On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 08:25:55 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

This weed, which we call "The Tumor" (in your best Arnold
Schwartzenager voice) is drivng us nuts. It comes on super fast,
grows super fast and returns after we pull it out. Its got prickly
edges. See phot link below.

Is there a chemical based weed killer that can take this out? Preen
did nothing to it. This weed just laughed at Preen.

http://ucemergencymedicineorg.siteprotect.net/weed.jpg

Look like wild lettuce to me. Lactuca something or other. It spreads
by seed I think, so I doubt it's coming back - just new plants.
Personally I like the plant - it grows tall with yellow flowers that
open in the morning. If you pull it out, roots and all (easiest after
a rain) and don't let plants go to seed you won't have it next year.

A chemical based weed killer is likely to take out all kinds of things
besides the plant you don't want. Some of those things may be
beneficial to you without your knowing.

Best to deal with specific problems specificly, imo.

hth,

Kate

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
...
This weed, which we call "The Tumor" (in your best Arnold
Schwartzenager voice) is drivng us nuts. It comes on super fast,
grows super fast and returns after we pull it out. Its got prickly
edges. See phot link below.

Is there a chemical based weed killer that can take this out? Preen
did nothing to it. This weed just laughed at Preen.

http://ucemergencymedicineorg.siteprotect.net/weed.jpg


I murder the worst of them by digging REALLY deep around the root system,
lifting the whole thing out, and shaking off the soil.

I wait until after they flower (they're gorgeous in full bloom) and then I
lop them off before the stickers fully form and toss them in the creek...
they grow along the creek banks behind my barn and some in my rock walls. I
don't consider thistles as weeds when they grow where they're no bother.

wrote in message

This weed, which we call "The Tumor" (in your best Arnold
Schwartzenager voice) is drivng us nuts. It comes on super fast,
grows super fast and returns after we pull it out. Its got prickly
edges. See phot link below.

Is there a chemical based weed killer that can take this out? Preen
did nothing to it. This weed just laughed at Preen.

http://ucemergencymedicineorg.siteprotect.net/weed.jpg

It's one of the thistle family and you'd need agricultural chemicals to kill
it, BUT I'd advise you not to go there. In fact I'd advise you not to
poison them at all - I'll explain why further on in the post.

Thistles are actually wonderful plants as they are 'deep miners'. What I
mean by that is that they send their roots down waaaay deep and bring
minerals up into the top soil. If you ever dig out a REALLY big thistle you
will find that clinging right in close to the tap root are huge numbers of
earth worms - far more worms that it would be reasonable to expect. the
worms are obviously getting somethign from the roots and it's probably
access to those minerals (somehow or other).

Thistles will continue to come up for many, many years even if you have
never allowed them to go to seed. Their seeds seem to have viability for
decades.

Given the growing pattern of the plants in your pic, I doubt very much that
the plants you see are 'returning' from any root left in the soil (and they
do do that if you just chip off the growing tip high on the tap root). What
you have there are new plants and unless you poison your soil to such an
extent that nothing else will grow, they will continue to emerge until the
seed sources are exhausted. The best thing to do is to just do the 'normal'
thing and that is to weed. They are very easily dealt with by weeding -
just slide a long bladed hand trowel down the side of the tap root and
lever - out in 2 seconds flat if you get then small. And even if they do
grow huge, the flowers are always gorgeous and frequently the foliage is too
depending on the variety of thistle.

On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:16:02 -0500, Charlie wrote:

On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 11:39:51 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:


Thistles are actually wonderful plants as they are 'deep miners'. What I
mean by that is that they send their roots down waaaay deep and bring
minerals up into the top soil.

This is a point too often not made and too often forgotten.

Thistles are good additions to the compost pile, because of this deep
mining, provided they are nicked out before seeding.

Charlie

Thistles smell good too, but I still think it's wild lettuce. I
suppose one way to tell is if the OP screams when they step on it.

Kate

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:16:02 -0500, Charlie wrote:

On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 11:39:51 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:


Thistles are actually wonderful plants as they are 'deep miners'. What I
mean by that is that they send their roots down waaaay deep and bring
minerals up into the top soil.

This is a point too often not made and too often forgotten.

Thistles are good additions to the compost pile, because of this deep
mining, provided they are nicked out before seeding.

Charlie

Thistles smell good too, but I still think it's wild lettuce. I
suppose one way to tell is if the OP screams when they step on it.

Kate




Any plant which punctures my rawhide gloves is automatically an enemy. I
don't care if it drops emeralds out of its flowers.

On Apr 24, 7:36 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:16:02 -0500, Charlie wrote:
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 11:39:51 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

Thistles are actually wonderful plants as they are 'deep miners'. What I
mean by that is that they send their roots down waaaay deep and bring
minerals up into the top soil.

This is a point too often not made and too often forgotten.

Thistles are good additions to the compost pile, because of this deep
mining, provided they are nicked out before seeding.

Charlie

Thistles smell good too, but I still think it's wild lettuce. I
suppose one way to tell is if the OP screams when they step on it.

Kate

Kate
I agree that it is a Lactuca, or maybe a Sonchus, sow thistle.
The leaves are immature and its difficult to tell the difference at
this stage.
I don't think the leaves are dentate or prickly enough to be a true
thistle (Circium)

Doesn't mention flower color.
Emilie
NorCal

In article
,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

wrote in message

This weed, which we call "The Tumor" (in your best Arnold
Schwartzenager voice) is drivng us nuts. It comes on super fast,
grows super fast and returns after we pull it out. Its got prickly
edges. See phot link below.

Is there a chemical based weed killer that can take this out? Preen
did nothing to it. This weed just laughed at Preen.

http://ucemergencymedicineorg.siteprotect.net/weed.jpg

It's one of the thistle family and you'd need agricultural chemicals to kill
it, BUT I'd advise you not to go there. In fact I'd advise you not to
poison them at all - I'll explain why further on in the post.

Thistles are actually wonderful plants as they are 'deep miners'. What I
mean by that is that they send their roots down waaaay deep and bring
minerals up into the top soil. If you ever dig out a REALLY big thistle you
will find that clinging right in close to the tap root are huge numbers of
earth worms - far more worms that it would be reasonable to expect. the
worms are obviously getting somethign from the roots and it's probably
access to those minerals (somehow or other).

Thistles will continue to come up for many, many years even if you have
never allowed them to go to seed. Their seeds seem to have viability for
decades.

Given the growing pattern of the plants in your pic, I doubt very much that
the plants you see are 'returning' from any root left in the soil (and they
do do that if you just chip off the growing tip high on the tap root). What
you have there are new plants and unless you poison your soil to such an
extent that nothing else will grow, they will continue to emerge until the
seed sources are exhausted. The best thing to do is to just do the 'normal'
thing and that is to weed. They are very easily dealt with by weeding -
just slide a long bladed hand trowel down the side of the tap root and
lever - out in 2 seconds flat if you get then small. And even if they do
grow huge, the flowers are always gorgeous and frequently the foliage is too
depending on the variety of thistle.

See if you can identify it.
http://www.pfaf.org/database/search_...LNAMES=thistle
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html

On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 22:18:36 -0700 (PDT), mleblanca
wrote:

On Apr 24, 7:36 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:16:02 -0500, Charlie wrote:
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 11:39:51 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

Thistles are actually wonderful plants as they are 'deep miners'. What I
mean by that is that they send their roots down waaaay deep and bring
minerals up into the top soil.

This is a point too often not made and too often forgotten.

Thistles are good additions to the compost pile, because of this deep
mining, provided they are nicked out before seeding.

Charlie

Thistles smell good too, but I still think it's wild lettuce. I
suppose one way to tell is if the OP screams when they step on it.

Kate

Kate
I agree that it is a Lactuca, or maybe a Sonchus, sow thistle.
The leaves are immature and its difficult to tell the difference at
this stage.
I don't think the leaves are dentate or prickly enough to be a true
thistle (Circium)

Doesn't mention flower color.
Emilie
NorCal

Hey Emilie,

In TN, it's too early for the sow thistles and wild lettuce to bloom,
but the 1 thistle I'm aware of in my yard is just days away from
blooming.

To me, sow thistles are easier to mistake for milk or Canadian thistle
in the early stages - both look dangerous but the sow thistle isn't.
The wild lettuce, admittedly a favorite of mine, doesn't look
threatening to me. (I harvest the leaves - they have a mild sedative
effect.)

Kate

This weed, which we call "The Tumor" (in your best Arnold
Schwartzenager voice) is drivng us nuts. It comes on super fast,
grows super fast and returns after we pull it out. Its got prickly
edges. See phot link below.

Is there a chemical based weed killer that can take this out? Preen
did nothing to it. This weed just laughed at Preen.

http://ucemergencymedicineorg.siteprotect.net/weed.jpg


From the picture, this looks like a few seconds with the hoe, they are
gone, although temporarily. No chemicals needed. But to remove a
unwanted plant that is growing with iris, grass, etc. is a bit
tougher. Roundup will kill the root. Be careful with overspray, or
you can paint the leaves using a paint brush/sponge and rubber gloves.
Established thistles are tough--I have tried flame torching with
limited success. I have not tried Preen--isn't that a pre-emergent
product?

I agree, use a hoe to scrape the top, often or whenever you see new leaves coming up.
after a while the root is depleted and it will die. just never, ever let it go to
seed!! and dont disturb the soil where these are found cause there are more seeds
just waiting. Ingrid

On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 11:32:02 -0400, Bill wrote:

In article
,
wrote:

http://ucemergencymedicineorg.siteprotect.net/weed.jpg

Looks like Thistle to me.

Use a hoe.

Bill

It looks like a very young Canada thistle plant to me..and the only
thing that I have found to kill it is fresh roundup. ISTM that when
Roundup gets older it loses it's punch.

You can also get rid of it by digging it up. In my soil I cannot pull it
up..it just breaks off.

EJ in NJ

wrote:
This weed, which we call "The Tumor" (in your best Arnold
Schwartzenager voice) is drivng us nuts. It comes on super fast,
grows super fast and returns after we pull it out. Its got prickly
edges. See phot link below.

Is there a chemical based weed killer that can take this out? Preen
did nothing to it. This weed just laughed at Preen.

http://ucemergencymedicineorg.siteprotect.net/weed.jpg

In article ,
wrote:

On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 22:18:36 -0700 (PDT), mleblanca
wrote:

On Apr 24, 7:36 pm, wrote:
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 21:16:02 -0500, Charlie wrote:
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 11:39:51 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

Thistles are actually wonderful plants as they are 'deep miners'. What I
mean by that is that they send their roots down waaaay deep and bring
minerals up into the top soil.

This is a point too often not made and too often forgotten.

Thistles are good additions to the compost pile, because of this deep
mining, provided they are nicked out before seeding.

Charlie

Thistles smell good too, but I still think it's wild lettuce. I
suppose one way to tell is if the OP screams when they step on it.

Kate

Kate
I agree that it is a Lactuca, or maybe a Sonchus, sow thistle.
The leaves are immature and its difficult to tell the difference at
this stage.
I don't think the leaves are dentate or prickly enough to be a true
thistle (Circium)

Doesn't mention flower color.
Emilie
NorCal

Hey Emilie,

In TN, it's too early for the sow thistles and wild lettuce to bloom,
but the 1 thistle I'm aware of in my yard is just days away from
blooming.

To me, sow thistles are easier to mistake for milk or Canadian thistle
in the early stages - both look dangerous but the sow thistle isn't.
The wild lettuce, admittedly a favorite of mine, doesn't look
threatening to me. (I harvest the leaves - they have a mild sedative
effect.)

Kate
http://www.pfaf.org/database/plants....chus+oleraceus

Sonchus oleraceus - L.
Sow Thistle

Edibility Rating 2 (1-5) Medicinal Rating 2 (1-5)

Edible Uses
Edible Parts: Leaves; Root; Stem.
Edible Uses: Gum.
Young leaves - raw or cooked[2, 4, 9, 13, 54]. This species has the
nicest tasting leaves of the genus[153], they usually have a mild
agreeable flavour[217] especially in the spring[K]. They can be added to
salads, cooked like spinach or used in soups etc[183]. The leaves
contain about 30 - 40mg of vitamin C per 100g[173], 1.2% protein, 0.3%
fat, 2.4% carbohydrate, 1.2% ash[179]. A zero moisture analysis is also
available[218]. It might be best, though it is not essential, to remove
the marginal prickles[9]. Stems - cooked like asparagus or rhubarb[12].
They are best if the outer skin is removed first[183]. Young root -
cooked[12]. They are woody and not very acceptable[144]. The milky sap
has been used as a chewing gum by the Maoris of New Zealand[183].

Medicinal Uses
Plants For A Future can not take any responsibility for any adverse
effects from the use of plants. Always seek advice from a professional
before using a plant medicinally.
Cancer; Emmenagogue; Febrifuge; Hepatic; Hydrogogue; Poultice; Tonic;
Warts.
The plant is emmenagogue and hepatic[61, 257]. An infusion has been used
to bring on a tardy menstruation and to treat diarrhoea[257]. The latex
in the sap is used in the treatment of warts[218]. It is also said to
have anticancer activity[218]. The stem juice is a powerful hydrogogue
and cathartic, it should be used with great caution since it can cause
colic and tenesmus[218]. The gum has been used as a cure for the opium
habit[257]. The leaves are applied as a poultice to inflammatory
swellings[4]. An infusion of the leaves and roots is febrifuge and
tonic[240].
------
http://www.pfaf.org/database/plants....lybum+marianum

Silybum marianum - (L.)Gaertn.
Milk Thistle

Edibility Rating 3 (1-5) Medicinal Rating 5 (1-5)

Edible Parts: Flowers; Leaves; Root; Stem.
Edible Uses: Coffee; Oil.
Root - raw or cooked[1, 2, 4, 52, 183]. A mild flavour and somewhat
mucilaginous texture[K]. When boiled, the roots resemble salsify
(Tragopogon hispanicus)[1, 4, 115]. Leaves - raw or cooked[1, 4, 5, 52,
89, 115]. The very sharp leaf-spines must be removed first[46, 183],
which is quite a fiddly operation[K]. The leaves are quite thick and
have a mild flavour when young, at this time they are quite an
acceptable ingredient of mixed salads, though they can become bitter in
hot dry weather[K]. When cooked they make an acceptable spinach
substitute[238]. It is possible to have leaves available all year round
from successional sowings[K]. Flower buds - cooked[1, 238]. A globe
artichoke substitute[12, 183], they are used before the flowers open.
The flavour is mild and acceptable, but the buds are quite small and
even more fiddly to use than globe artichokes[K]. Stems - raw or
cooked[4, 100]. They are best peeled and can be soaked to reduce the
bitterness[5, 183]. Palatable and nutritious[4, 115], they can be used
like asparagus or rhubarb[12] or added to salads. They are best used in
spring when they are young[105]. A good quality oil is obtained from the
seeds[4]. The roasted seed is a coffee substitute[21, 46, 61, 183].
Medicinal Uses
Plants For A Future can not take any responsibility for any adverse
effects from the use of plants. Always seek advice from a professional
before using a plant medicinally.
Astringent; Bitter; Cholagogue; Diaphoretic; Diuretic; Emetic;
Emmenagogue; Hepatic; Homeopathy; Stimulant; Stomachic; Tonic.
Blessed thistle has a long history of use in the West as a remedy for
depression and liver problems[254]. Recent research has confirmed that
it has a remarkable ability to protect the liver from damage resulting
from alcoholic and other types of poisoning[254]. The whole plant is
astringent, bitter, cholagogue, diaphoretic, diuretic, emetic,
emmenagogue, hepatic, stimulant, stomachic and tonic[4, 21, 160, 165,
238]. It is used internally in the treatment of liver and gall bladder
diseases, jaundice, cirrhosis, hepatitis and poisoning[238]. The plant
is harvested when in flower and dried for later use[238]. Silymarin, an
extract from the seed, acts on the membranes of the liver cells
preventing the entry of virus toxins and other toxic compounds and thus
preventing damage to the cells[244]. It also dramatically improves liver
regeneration in hepatitis, cirrhosis, mushroom poisoning and other
diseases of the liver[222, 238, 254]. German research suggests that
silybin (a flavonoid component of the seed) is clinically useful in the
treatment of severe poisoning by Amanita mushrooms[222]. Seed extracts
are produced commercially in Europe[222]. Regeneration of the liver is
particularly important in the treatment of cancer since this disease is
always characterized by a severely compromised and often partially
destroyed liver[K]. A homeopathic remedy is obtained from equal parts of
the root and the seed with its hulls still attached[4]. It is used in
the treatment of liver and abdominal disorders[9].
------
http://www.pfaf.org/database/plants.php?Cirsium+arvense

Cirsium arvense - (L.)Scop.
Creeping Thistle (a.k.a.) Canadian Thistle

Edibility Rating 2 (1-5) Medicinal Rating 2 (1-5)

Edible Uses
Edible Parts: Leaves; Root; Stem.
Edible Uses: Curdling agent.
Root of first year plants - raw or cooked[183]. Nutritious but rather
bland, they are best used in a mixture with other vegetables[9]. The
root is likely to be rich in inulin, a starch that cannot be digested by
humans. This starch thus passes straight through the digestive system
and, in some people, ferments to produce flatulence[K]. Stems - they are
peeled and cooked like asparagus or rhubarb[9, 12, 177, 183]. Leaves -
raw or cooked[177, 183]. A fairly bland flavour, but the prickles need
to be removed before the leaves can be eaten - not only is this rather
fiddly but very little edible leaf remains[K]. The leaves are also used
to coagulate plant milks etc[46, 61, 183].
Medicinal Uses
Plants For A Future can not take any responsibility for any adverse
effects from the use of plants. Always seek advice from a professional
before using a plant medicinally.
Antiphlogistic; Astringent; Diuretic; Emetic; Emmenagogue; Hepatic;
Tonic.
The root is tonic, diuretic, astringent, antiphlogistic and
hepatic[207]. It has been chewed as a remedy for toothache[4]. A
decoction of the roots has been used to treat worms in children[257]. A
paste of the roots, combined with an equal quantity of the root paste of
Amaranthus spinosus, is used in the treatment of indigestion[272]. The
plant contains a volatile alkaloid and a glycoside called cnicin, which
has emetic and emmenagogue properties[240]. The leaves are
antiphlogistic[207]. They cause inflammation and have irritating
properties[207[.
-----

Eat it.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
is now subjected to contact with dangerous chemicals, from the
moment of conception until death." - Rachel Carson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI29wVQN8Go

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072040.html