Billy wrote:
In article ,
Nad R wrote:


I know that most will disagree with me. I do agree that the banks went
wild. So are you saying that the US is responsible for Europe's financial
collapse because Glass-Steagall also controls the worlds banks. Does not
Europe have their own banking laws? I can see removing Glass-Steagall can
wreck the U.S. Banks, but Europe's banks as well? So Europe's banks are
controlled by our laws? I find this hard to believe.

Some of them bought the same high performing, toxic derivatives that our
banks did. But whether you're talking Ireland, or Spain, or Greece, the
story is the same. They got the money, and we got the bill.

My point, the past and present banking laws failed for every nation!

Not, just toxic derivatives. Europe also formed it own free trade
agreements within Europe called E.U. and even created their own
multinational currency. The greater the markets the more efficient
companies become and need fewer workers. That means less Europeans making
money, Europeans defaulting on their loans, European's properties
devaluating, European banks go under. This is the THEY, the corporate rich,
those that profit from having larger international markets.

When property values decline, those property values become toxic. When
property values decline will also effect the stock markets. The stock
markets are no longer a place for investments, the stock market is a
casino. Stocks and bonds are part of those toxic derivatives ( which is
gambling in it's self ). The stock market is an indicator for the rich.
Trade deficit is an indicator for the poor.

However, not just banking laws. It was President Carter that allowed the US
government to purchase stocks. Before Carter it was illegal for the
government to own stocks. Many other governments of the world followed suit
and purchased stocks and bonds as well, which drove the stock markets even
higher. If the governments did not buy stocks, the world would not be in a
mess also. I believe this did far more damage than removing Glass-Steagal.
I often wonder how much money the governments are putting in, just to keep
the markets from collapsing, just to help the rich stay rich.

The only answer to solve these problems is the formation of a NEW WORLD
GOVERNMENT with a new world currency. However, a new world currency will
fail without a world government to force international laws. But to do
this, the people of Earth have to give up this notion called nationalism
and patriotism.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

On Jan 31, 2:24*am, Nad R wrote:
Billy wrote:
In article ,
*Nad R wrote:

[...]
The only answer to solve these problems is the formation of a NEW WORLD
GOVERNMENT with a new world currency. *However, a new world currency will
fail without a world government to force international laws. But to do
this, the people of Earth have to give up this notion called nationalism
and patriotism.

Good luck, o, kind and loving heart!

We are still animals, with a very thin veneer of civilization, easily
ripped off.

HB

Higgs Boson wrote:
On Jan 31, 2:24 am, Nad R wrote:
Billy wrote:
In article ,
Nad R wrote:

[...]
The only answer to solve these problems is the formation of a NEW WORLD
GOVERNMENT with a new world currency. However, a new world currency will
fail without a world government to force international laws. But to do
this, the people of Earth have to give up this notion called nationalism
and patriotism.

Good luck, o, kind and loving heart!

We are still animals, with a very thin veneer of civilization, easily
ripped off.

HB

I am a sceptic at heart. I do not expect this to happen. I expect chaos
instead.
However, I state this as the best possible solution to the worlds problems.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

In article ,
Nad R wrote:

However, not just banking laws. It was President Carter that allowed the US
government to purchase stocks. Before Carter it was illegal for the
government to own stocks. Many other governments of the world followed suit
and purchased stocks and bonds as well, which drove the stock markets even
higher. If the governments did not buy stocks, the world would not be in a
mess also. I believe this did far more damage than removing Glass-Steagal.

Really, when Glass Steagal prevented excessive leveraging? Leveraging
that went to $35 in commitments to $1 in cash on hand after Glass
Steagal was repealed. Then when the investment banks got our money, and
were given 0% interest loans, did they make that money available to
business in the form of loans? No, they took their (our) money and
invested it at 3% interest in T- bills, gave bonuses all around, and
headed on out to expensive resorts for retreats, uh-huh.

Meanwhile back in Athens, Papandreou tried to allay public anger
byÂ*promising to lower corporate taxes in an effort to revive the
debt-plagued country's shrinking economy.

He said the tax rate on companies' retained profits would be cut from 24
to 20 per cent next year, providing what he called "a strong incentive
for investments and competitiveness'.'

He promised to also deregulate the energy market, settle on
privatisation targets and simplify business licensing procedures by the
end of 2010.

HeÂ*said it would overhaul loss-making state firms including Hellenic
Railways (OSE), which has debts of $13.62bn, by cutting payroll and rail
services. (Cutting train service means more money spent on oil and
gasoline to move people and goods in Greece.)

Laurence Lee, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Thessaloniki, said: "What
the protesters want more than anything is for money not to be taken from
them but from the rich. In his speech Papandreou acknowledged that.
"He said he accepted the economic measures had been unpopular. He said
he knew it was unfair to be taking money from the poor to the rich but
said it was vital for Greece.
----

Does any of this sound familiar to you? We aren't that far from being in
the same situation.

What are our options?

Viva Tunisia, Viva Egypt
(where the demonstrators know that the police and para-militaries got
their training and supplies (tear gas, bullets, tanks, and F-16s from
the United States)
--
- Billy
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist."
-Archbishop Helder Camara
http://peace.mennolink.org/articles/...acegroups.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...130964689.html

In article
,
Billy wrote:

What are our options?

I know of nothing other than letting things that disrupt pass and
supporting things that aid the common good. We know good when we see it
but only can act when it occurs or cause it to occur. Folks in power
have a wider range of influence those in lesser positions work resides
nearby.
Confucian thought. When the individual is well the family is well.
Then the county can be well and the state will be well. Throws
importance to the primary.
Seems with our misplaced military spending we are some what sick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAd0jOuQg8o

Sun thinking about going down
Cold with a promise of more
Sand on the walk ways but a fall is never far
Slow and steady and no where to go
Went this morning and we are whole
Still extended comes to mind

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden

http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

Do you know why there are no Wal*Mart stores in Germany? Of course you
don't. Do you know why Gernany does not want to bail out the countries of
Spain, Ireland and Greece? I'll let you in on a little secret, they have
strict banking laws and labor laws.

Some of you need to take economics 101. A little world history reading
would help too.
--
Bud

In article ,
Bud wrote:

Do you know why there are no Wal*Mart stores in Germany? Of course you
don't. Do you know why Gernany does not want to bail out the countries of
Spain, Ireland and Greece? I'll let you in on a little secret, they have
strict banking laws and labor laws.

Some of you need to take economics 101. A little world history reading
would help too.

Interesting that Germany invaded both Greece and had influence in Spain
in the last 70 years.

--
Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden

http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

In article ,
Bill who putters wrote:

In article
,
Billy wrote:

What are our options?

I know of nothing other than letting things that disrupt pass and
supporting things that aid the common good. We know good when we see it
but only can act when it occurs or cause it to occur. Folks in power
have a wider range of influence those in lesser positions work resides
nearby.
Confucian thought. When the individual is well the family is well.
Then the county can be well and the state will be well. Throws
importance to the primary.
Seems with our misplaced military spending we are some what sick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAd0jOuQg8o

Sun thinking about going down
Cold with a promise of more
Sand on the walk ways but a fall is never far
Slow and steady and no where to go
Went this morning and we are whole
Still extended comes to mind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTW0y6kazWM

Vietnam Vet with a cardboard sign
Sitting there by the left turn line
Flag on the wheelchair flapping in the breeze
One leg missing, both hands free
No one's paying much mind to him
The V.A. budget's stretched so thin
And there's more comin' home from the Mideast war
We can't make it here anymore

That big ol' building was the textile mill
It fed our kids and it paid our bills
But they turned us out and they closed the doors
We can't make it here anymore

See all those pallets piled up on the loading dock
They're just gonna set there till they rot
'Cause there's nothing to ship, nothing to pack
Just busted concrete and rusted tracks
Empty storefronts around the square
There's a needle in the gutter and glass everywhere
You don't come down here 'less you're looking to score
We can't make it here anymore

Music and lyrics © 2004 by James McMurtry
--
- Billy
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist."
-Archbishop Helder Camara
http://peace.mennolink.org/articles/...acegroups.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...130964689.html

In article ,
Bud wrote:

Do you know why there are no Wal*Mart stores in Germany? Of course you
don't. Do you know why Gernany does not want to bail out the countries of
Spain, Ireland and Greece?
Want to? No, they don't want to, but they will try. They are the 4th
largest economy in the world, and they didn't ship their jobs over seas.

I'll let you in on a little secret, they have
strict banking laws and labor laws.

Some of you need to take economics 101. A little world history reading
would help too.
--
- Billy
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist."
-Archbishop Helder Camara
http://peace.mennolink.org/articles/...acegroups.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...130964689.html

In article ,
Bill who putters wrote:

In article ,
Bud wrote:

Do you know why there are no Wal*Mart stores in Germany? Of course you
don't. Do you know why Gernany does not want to bail out the countries of
Spain, Ireland and Greece? I'll let you in on a little secret, they have
strict banking laws and labor laws.

Some of you need to take economics 101. A little world history reading
would help too.

Interesting that Germany invaded both Greece and had influence in Spain
in the last 70 years.

Kaiser Bill I, Matin Luther, Johann Sebastian Bach, Werner Herzog, Fritz
Lang, Hannah Arendt, Erich Fromm, Immanuel Kant, Arthur Schopenhauer,
Erich Fromm, Albert Einstein, Max Planck, Hans Gerhard Creutzfeldt,
Katarina Witt, and Beethoven are German too.

Shifting hemispheres, be sure to see the documentary "South of the
Border" by Oliver Stone. In it Argentinean President, and then First
Gentleman of Argentina (his wife became president), Nestor Kirchner
relates how "Dubya" told his that war was good for the economy. Believe
it or don't, it's still a good movie.
--
- Billy
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist."
-Archbishop Helder Camara
http://peace.mennolink.org/articles/...acegroups.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...130964689.html

Billy wrote:
In article ,
Nad R wrote:

However, not just banking laws. It was President Carter that allowed the US
government to purchase stocks. Before Carter it was illegal for the
government to own stocks. Many other governments of the world followed suit
and purchased stocks and bonds as well, which drove the stock markets even
higher. If the governments did not buy stocks, the world would not be in a
mess also. I believe this did far more damage than removing Glass-Steagal.

Really, when Glass Steagal prevented excessive leveraging? Leveraging
that went to $35 in commitments to $1 in cash on hand after Glass
Steagal was repealed. Then when the investment banks got our money, and
were given 0% interest loans, did they make that money available to
business in the form of loans? No, they took their (our) money and
invested it at 3% interest in T- bills, gave bonuses all around, and
headed on out to expensive resorts for retreats, uh-huh.

I guess your not old enough to remember or have a short memory of the super
high inflation days of Nixon and Carter. Companies could not afford those
double digit high Interest rates for expanding. Next to impossible to get a
home loan because banks then had little money. I was getting 13% on my time
deposits in the seventies. Everyone took the money out of banks and put
their money into the better paying stock markets in which dividends were
running about 15% annual rates. Banks were unable to compete with the stock
market due to very old and very restrictive banking laws.

It was Ronald Reagan that started the dismantling of the Glass-Steagle.
Then the banks were now able to get moving again and inflation started to
drop. But like many inflexible laws the pendulum started to swing far far
to the other side. The problem with many laws are they are not flexible
enough to change with the times.

Need to remember your history in order to improve the future. To learn from
our mistakes. Not just keep from repeating past mistakes. The world needs
laws that are flexible, not strict laws. Strict laws work well, only in the
short term.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

Bud wrote:
Do you know why there are no Wal*Mart stores in Germany? Of course you
don't. Do you know why Gernany does not want to bail out the countries of
Spain, Ireland and Greece? I'll let you in on a little secret, they have
strict banking laws and labor laws.

Some of you need to take economics 101. A little world history reading
would help too.

They also have strict trade laws. Free trade with them is a one way street.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

In article ,
Nad R wrote:

Bud wrote:
Do you know why there are no Wal*Mart stores in Germany? Of course you
don't. Do you know why Gernany does not want to bail out the countries of
Spain, Ireland and Greece? I'll let you in on a little secret, they have
strict banking laws and labor laws.

Some of you need to take economics 101. A little world history reading
would help too.

They also have strict trade laws. Free trade with them is a one way street.

And that is the problem of neo-liberal economics. No developing country
can compete with the resources of an established industrial country,
which will buy up the resources of a developing country, and incentivize
old technology and cheap wages.

Germany also has the 4th largest economy in the world, and they didn't
send their jobs over seas.

Tell us wherein their sin lies. They encourage exports and don't
encourage imports? At least they have something to export besides
weapons.
--
- Billy
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist."
-Archbishop Helder Camara
http://peace.mennolink.org/articles/...acegroups.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...130964689.html

In article ,
Nad R wrote:

Billy wrote:
In article ,
Nad R wrote:

However, not just banking laws. It was President Carter that allowed the US
government to purchase stocks. Before Carter it was illegal for the
government to own stocks. Many other governments of the world followed suit
and purchased stocks and bonds as well, which drove the stock markets even
higher. If the governments did not buy stocks, the world would not be in a
mess also. I believe this did far more damage than removing Glass-Steagal.
Does anyone else?


Really, when Glass Steagal prevented excessive leveraging? Leveraging
that went to $35 in commitments to $1 in cash on hand after Glass
Steagal was repealed. Then when the investment banks got our money, and
were given 0% interest loans, did they make that money available to
business in the form of loans? No, they took their (our) money and
invested it at 3% interest in T- bills, gave bonuses all around, and
headed on out to expensive resorts for retreats, uh-huh.

I guess your not old enough to remember or have a short memory of the super
high inflation days of Nixon and Carter. Companies could not afford those
double digit high Interest rates for expanding. Next to impossible to get a
home loan because banks then had little money. I was getting 13% on my time
deposits in the seventies. Everyone took the money out of banks and put
their money into the better paying stock markets in which dividends were
running about 15% annual rates. Banks were unable to compete with the stock
market due to very old and very restrictive banking laws.
You pick an extreme time in the 20th Century. There was doubling of oil
prices.

It was Ronald Reagan that started the dismantling of the Glass-Steagle.
Actually, he passed Tax Reform Act of 1986 and he was the first to
propose privatizing government, like we do with soldiers and spies now.
Glass-Steagle was all Summer's and Clinton's.
Then the banks were now able to get moving again and inflation started to
drop. But like many inflexible laws the pendulum started to swing far far
to the other side. The problem with many laws are they are not flexible
enough to change with the times.
What inflexible laws are you referring to?

Need to remember your history in order to improve the future.

To learn from
our mistakes. Not just keep from repeating past mistakes. The world needs
laws that are flexible, not strict laws. Strict laws work well, only in the
short term.

Getting a little sanctimonious?
--
- Billy
"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist."
-Archbishop Helder Camara
http://peace.mennolink.org/articles/...acegroups.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...130964689.html

Billy wrote:
In article ,
Nad R wrote:

Billy wrote:
In article ,
Nad R wrote:

However, not just banking laws. It was President Carter that allowed the US
government to purchase stocks. Before Carter it was illegal for the
government to own stocks. Many other governments of the world followed suit
and purchased stocks and bonds as well, which drove the stock markets even
higher. If the governments did not buy stocks, the world would not be in a
mess also. I believe this did far more damage than removing Glass-Steagal.
Does anyone else?.
Really, when Glass Steagal prevented excessive leveraging? Leveraging
that went to $35 in commitments to $1 in cash on hand after Glass
Steagal was repealed. Then when the investment banks got our money, and
were given 0% interest loans, did they make that money available to
business in the form of loans? No, they took their (our) money and
invested it at 3% interest in T- bills, gave bonuses all around, and
headed on out to expensive resorts for retreats, uh-huh.

I guess your not old enough to remember or have a short memory of the super
high inflation days of Nixon and Carter. Companies could not afford those
double digit high Interest rates for expanding. Next to impossible to get a
home loan because banks then had little money. I was getting 13% on my time
deposits in the seventies. Everyone took the money out of banks and put
their money into the better paying stock markets in which dividends were
running about 15% annual rates. Banks were unable to compete with the stock
market due to very old and very restrictive banking laws.
You pick an extreme time in the 20th Century. There was doubling of oil
prices.

It was Ronald Reagan that started the dismantling of the Glass-Steagle.
Actually, he passed Tax Reform Act of 1986 and he was the first to
propose privatizing government, like we do with soldiers and spies now.
Glass-Steagle was all Summer's and Clinton's.
Then the banks were now able to get moving again and inflation started to
drop. But like many inflexible laws the pendulum started to swing far far
to the other side. The problem with many laws are they are not flexible
enough to change with the times.
What inflexible laws are you referring to?

Need to remember your history in order to improve the future.

To learn from
our mistakes. Not just keep from repeating past mistakes. The world needs
laws that are flexible, not strict laws. Strict laws work well, only in the
short term.

Getting a little sanctimonious?

Always

I prefer the phrase "Spirit of the Law" over "Letter of the Law".
But realize it is difficult to implement the "Spirit".

My personal views I developed over time. Unknown if anyone agrees with
them.

I found the discussion however, most interesting.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)