"Nad R" wrote in message

Sounds reasonable, something I have not considered. But cooking, cooking
well is still a learning curve fro me.

I notice you hang out in rec.food.cooking where there are some woeful food
discussions and some people who haven't got the first clue about how to cook
but it's always good for a laugh.

Cooking isn't rocket science and is a lot like gardening. Start with the
basics. Take yourself to the local library and borrow a good basic cookery
book (and go back and take out other books untill you find one that works
for you as a bible). Start from first principles ie, learn aobut
ingredients then take baby steps such as how to roast something, how to
grill (which I think is 'broil' in USian) , how to fry something and then
work out from that to how to make white sauce as a base for something and
how that can be changed to a cheese sauce etc.

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
...
Nad R wrote:
Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jun 2011 14:26:54 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

"Nad R" wrote in message
...
enigma wrote:
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in
u:

I'm sorry to hear that Bessie didn't work out. Dairy cows
aren't
supposed to make good beef so I'd be interested to hear a report
on the product once you get aroudn to eating some of it.

most of the mince in the US is old dairy cows... it's cheap.

Bessy is in the freezer. I have not had any of the beef yet. But
bessy was less than two years old. I think the beef will be fine.
Perhaps a little longer on the marinade.

When it comes to meat, the age of the animal from which it comes
really doesn't ahve a lot to do with how good the beef is - it's
all about breed (and Bos type).

Actually you have it exactly opposite... feed being equal breed
matters very little but age determines tenderness and flavor. Older
beef is tougher and more strongly flavored... also the fat in older
beef is no longer white but tends to yellow which adds a gamy flavor.
With older beef less tender cuts can be tenderized with braising and
grinding but the more desireable cuts from the rib and loin that
typically become tender steaks and roasts will be negatively affected
and after about three years will attain a liverish flavor. The USDA
grading system mandates that no beef over two years can be awarded
the Prime designation.

YES! I have prime beef

The fat is white not yellow. She was grass fed and I read that grass
fed may be healthier but may not tastes as good. First I am going to
use up the older beef in the freezer before I get to bessy.

Grass fed tastes excellent to me although (I am told) it may not be to the
taste of those raised on grain fed beef as the latter is rather bland in
comparison. Depending on your tastes you may be in for a treat.

'Flabby texture' is how I've heard grain fed meat described.

In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Brooklyn1" Gravesend1 wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 Jun 2011 14:26:54 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

"Nad R" wrote in message
...
enigma wrote:
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in
u:

I'm sorry to hear that Bessie didn't work out. Dairy cows aren't
supposed to make good beef so I'd be interested to hear a report
on the product once you get aroudn to eating some of it.

most of the mince in the US is old dairy cows... it's cheap.

Bessy is in the freezer. I have not had any of the beef yet. But bessy
was
less than two years old. I think the beef will be fine. Perhaps a little
longer on the marinade.

When it comes to meat, the age of the animal from which it comes really
doesn't ahve a lot to do with how good the beef is - it's all about breed
(and Bos type).

Actually you have it exactly opposite... feed being equal breed
matters very little but age determines tenderness and flavor.

I know you have always like to argue Sheldon so I'll explain why I said what
I did. We're discussing Bessie. Bessie is 2. In the case of Bessie, which
is a dairy cow, then her meat won't be as good as a beef breed of the same
age.

Here it would be a little on the chewy side, since the avg. age here for
slaughter is 18 mo. which will have more meat and less bone. Been there
done that, won't do it again.
--
- Billy

Mad dog Republicans to the right. Democratic spider webs to the left. True conservatives, and liberals not to be found anywhere in the phantasmagoria
of the American political landscape.

America is not broke. The country is awash in wealth and cash.
It's just that it's not in your hands. It has been transferred, in the
greatest heist in history, from the workers and consumers to the banks
and the portfolios of the uber-rich.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/.../michael-moore
/michael-moore-says-400-americans-have-more-wealth-/

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"Nad R" wrote in message

Sounds reasonable, something I have not considered. But cooking, cooking
well is still a learning curve fro me.

I notice you hang out in rec.food.cooking where there are some woeful food
discussions and some people who haven't got the first clue about how to cook
but it's always good for a laugh.

Cooking isn't rocket science and is a lot like gardening. Start with the
basics. Take yourself to the local library and borrow a good basic cookery
book (and go back and take out other books untill you find one that works
for you as a bible). Start from first principles ie, learn aobut
ingredients then take baby steps such as how to roast something, how to
grill (which I think is 'broil' in USian) , how to fry something and then
work out from that to how to make white sauce as a base for something and
how that can be changed to a cheese sauce etc.

Close to rocket science. I have read that the "Sauce" is the basics of all
meals. get the sauce right and the meal will be right. Every nation is
known by the sauce. Gravy for the US. Salsa for the Latin America.
Hollandaise for French. Chinese...
Nothing is simple. Hardest part is meal planning

My favorite science book
http://www.amazon.com/CookWise-Succe...9246227&sr=8-1


--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"Nad R" wrote in message
...
Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jun 2011 14:26:54 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

"Nad R" wrote in message
...
enigma wrote:
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in
u:

I'm sorry to hear that Bessie didn't work out. Dairy cows aren't
supposed to make good beef so I'd be interested to hear a report
on the product once you get aroudn to eating some of it.

most of the mince in the US is old dairy cows... it's cheap.

Bessy is in the freezer. I have not had any of the beef yet. But bessy
was
less than two years old. I think the beef will be fine. Perhaps a
little
longer on the marinade.

When it comes to meat, the age of the animal from which it comes really
doesn't ahve a lot to do with how good the beef is - it's all about
breed
(and Bos type).

Actually you have it exactly opposite... feed being equal breed
matters very little but age determines tenderness and flavor. Older
beef is tougher and more strongly flavored... also the fat in older
beef is no longer white but tends to yellow which adds a gamy flavor.
With older beef less tender cuts can be tenderized with braising and
grinding but the more desireable cuts from the rib and loin that
typically become tender steaks and roasts will be negatively affected
and after about three years will attain a liverish flavor. The USDA
grading system mandates that no beef over two years can be awarded the
Prime designation.

YES! I have prime beef

LOL. Perhaps you should read what he wrote one more time. Is age the only
criteria?

The fat is white not yellow. She was grass fed and I read that grass fed
may be healthier but may not tastes as good.

No doubt the gain feeding lobby has put out that bit of PR. I know people
here who seek out grass fed.

First I am going to use up the
older beef in the freezer before I get to bessy.

Why didn't you sample her before you put her in the freezer? I know I
couldn't have resisted doing so.

I will, on the fourth of July, Independence Day

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"Nad R" wrote in message
...
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
"enigma" wrote in message
...
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in
u:

I'm sorry to hear that Bessie didn't work out. Dairy cows aren't
supposed to make good beef so I'd be interested to hear a report
on the product once you get aroudn to eating some of it.

most of the mince in the US is old dairy cows... it's cheap.

Hello there Lee - long time no see. What have you been up to?

It has been busy here this June.

Is your name Lee too?

Nope, my name is not Lee. Miss read it... Sorry
I use the pen name is Nad. And Nad or Dan is not my real name either

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 15:13:48 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

"Brooklyn1" Gravesend1 wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 27 Jun 2011 14:26:54 +1000, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given
wrote:

"Nad R" wrote in message
...
enigma wrote:
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote in
u:

I'm sorry to hear that Bessie didn't work out. Dairy cows aren't
supposed to make good beef so I'd be interested to hear a report
on the product once you get aroudn to eating some of it.

most of the mince in the US is old dairy cows... it's cheap.

Bessy is in the freezer. I have not had any of the beef yet. But bessy
was
less than two years old. I think the beef will be fine. Perhaps a little
longer on the marinade.

When it comes to meat, the age of the animal from which it comes really
doesn't ahve a lot to do with how good the beef is - it's all about breed
(and Bos type).

Actually you have it exactly opposite... feed being equal breed
matters very little but age determines tenderness and flavor.

I know you have always like to argue Sheldon so I'll explain why I said what
I did. We're discussing Bessie. Bessie is 2. In the case of Bessie, which
is a dairy cow, then her meat won't be as good as a beef breed of the same
age.

You explained nothing we all didn't already know... and it's you who
does all the arguing, all based on pure lunacy and a super inflated
ego... milk cow is not a breed, milk cows are of all breeds too. There
is no way you're a farmer, you prove that with every post you make...
you've never seen a farm except in picture books. Btw, a two year old
cow that's never produced milk will yield excellent meat. It was
wiser to butcher her now than to risk allowing her to age another year
and become dog food.

"FarmI" wrote:
"Nad R" wrote:

Sounds reasonable, something I have not considered. But cooking, cooking
well is still a learning curve fro me.

I notice you hang out in rec.food.cooking where there are some woeful food
discussions and some people who haven't got the first clue about how to cook
but it's always good for a laugh.

Same as here with some who like to imply they're farmers.

Cooking isn't rocket science and is a lot like gardening.

Obviously for you horticulture and botany are not sciences.

Take yourself to the local library and borrow a good basic cookery book

Cooking from a book is like paint by numbers is art. Believe it or
not the worlds best cooks are totally illiterate... very few of the
cooks working in the finast restaurants graduated high school, and
most can't read or write a lick. Most highly skilled occupations
don't require one know how to read, that's why a skilled carpenter
only needs a blueprint to build a house... skilled machinists don't
need to know how to read, they build jet engines by refering to a
picture. I'd no more want someone cooking my dinner by following a
recipe than undergo surgery by someone refering to an instruction
manual. You're no more a farmer than a burger flipper is a cook. It's
easy to ascertain from reading Farm1's posts that he barely possesses
the literacy level of a 4th grader, and even though he is a functional
illiterate he has demonstrated no innate talents whatsoever.

Great cooks are born with the talent, it cannot be learned. Liberace
was not only one of the world's most renowned pianists he was also a
very accomplished cook, both innate talents, achieved both with no
formal education.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberace

Brooklyn1 wrote:
"FarmI" wrote:
"Nad R" wrote:

Sounds reasonable, something I have not considered. But cooking,
cooking well is still a learning curve fro me.

I notice you hang out in rec.food.cooking where there are some
woeful food discussions and some people who haven't got the first
clue about how to cook but it's always good for a laugh.

Same as here with some who like to imply they're farmers.

Cooking isn't rocket science and is a lot like gardening.

Obviously for you horticulture and botany are not sciences.


Any way and any topic to disagree over is good for you. You obviously know
that "rocket science" in popular culture stands for things too complex and
difficult for the ordinary person to deal with but for the sake of having a
fight you must try to take it literally. Groan.

Take yourself to the local library and borrow a good basic cookery
book

Cooking from a book is like paint by numbers is art. Believe it or
not the worlds best cooks are totally illiterate... very few of the
cooks working in the finast restaurants graduated high school, and
most can't read or write a lick. Most highly skilled occupations
don't require one know how to read, that's why a skilled carpenter
only needs a blueprint to build a house... skilled machinists don't
need to know how to read, they build jet engines by refering to a
picture.

More provocative nonsense. Do you ever get tired of making stuff up just
to be able to disagree?

I'd no more want someone cooking my dinner by following a
recipe than undergo surgery by someone refering to an instruction
manual.

And once again you miss the point. The advice was how to get started not
how to become a top chef.

You're no more a farmer than a burger flipper is a cook. It's
easy to ascertain from reading Farm1's posts that he barely possesses
the literacy level of a 4th grader, and even though he is a functional
illiterate he has demonstrated no innate talents whatsoever.


More accumulated insults for no reason.

Great cooks are born with the talent, it cannot be learned.

At birth the Great Chef in The Sky reaches down and touches each one with
greatness like a larval bee that is given royal jelly. Yes they spring
forth from their mothers fully formed requiring no further experience or
knowledge. In this modern era they only go through apprenticeships and
years at tertiary education as a pretence. Throughout history none of them
ever studied under more experienced chefs nor read anything but Micky Mouse
strips in the Sunday papers.

And do notice that Nad R just wants to learn to cook, he says nothing about
becoming the next Escoffier.

Liberace
was not only one of the world's most renowned pianists he was also a
very accomplished cook, both innate talents, achieved both with no
formal education.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberace

Entirely irrelevant.

Are you worried that if you are civil and reasonable that you will be
ignored? Inventing insults for strangers sure is a strange way to get
noticed.

D

"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

And do notice that Nad R just wants to learn to cook, he says nothing
about becoming the next Escoffier.


My own views regarding the world is "nothing is REALLY simple". Gardening,
Cooking and Computers has it's simplicity and it's complexity. one does not
need a college degree for any of these areas. But life could be much
greater If one digs a little deeper by reading a book or taking a class,
life could improve greatly.

My gardening years ago was terrible, many of my trees died, plants with
diseases, did I know why... No. However I did have successes, but could not
replicate them and did not really know why. I have read many books on
gardening and that was helpful, but still things did not go well as I
hoped. My gardening skills took off after taking a few classes on
gardening.

Books alone does not always help. It is the combination of hardware and
software is where knowledge is improved. The gardeners has its tools
(hardware) and software(seeds and plants). Cooking also has tools (Oven)
and software (Ingredients).

My cooking and canning is like my gardening years ago... blah, I may take a
local class for cooking someday, Not be the a Top Chef. Like gardening to
improve the quality of life.

I am a kid in a candy store of life. I want to sample everything:
Chess club (expert), Electronics (Associate Degree), Computer Programming
(Masters Degree), Amateur Radio (General Class), Guitar Lessons (No talent,
was bad), Ballroom Dancing (Arthur Murray and other places 4 years of fun),
Karate Lessons, Gardening (Master Gardening Volunteer Program) and
possibly cooking lessons may be in the future. My neighbors help provide
knowledge for my hobby farm.

Did I become the best in anything... No. It was for improvement of my
personal life.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

"Brooklyn1" Gravesend1 wrote in message
...
"FarmI" wrote:
"Nad R" wrote:

Sounds reasonable, something I have not considered. But cooking, cooking
well is still a learning curve fro me.

I notice you hang out in rec.food.cooking where there are some woeful food
discussions and some people who haven't got the first clue about how to
cook
but it's always good for a laugh.

Same as here with some who like to imply they're farmers.

Well you were well known for pretending you were a real farmer when you
posted in misc.rural. From the time that another USian proved that you
owned only a few piddly acres you've spewed bile at anyone who really does
own a farm. Your obvious envy is transparent, sad, pathetic and downright
obvious.


You're no more a farmer than a burger flipper is a cook.

Tell that to the Australian Taxation Office Sheldon. I doubt that that
organisation will take any notice of a remote assessment done by a sad old
loser living on a few acres in the US of A, and whose only claim to any
farming knowledge is that he collects every piece of mechanisation that
would really be needed on a real farm of several thousand acres.

It's
easy to ascertain from reading Farm1's posts that he barely possesses
the literacy level of a 4th grader, and even though he is a functional
illiterate he has demonstrated no innate talents whatsoever.

Who is this 'he' of whom you write Sheldon? Are you really so dim, drunk or
deluded that can repeatedly fail to remember the gender of someone whose
posts you've been reading for at least 10 years in at least 2 newsgroups?

It sure takes some talent to show yourself up as being so totally and
incredibly stupid.

"Nad R" wrote in message
...
"David Hare-Scott" wrote:

And do notice that Nad R just wants to learn to cook, he says nothing
about becoming the next Escoffier.


My own views regarding the world is "nothing is REALLY simple". Gardening,
Cooking and Computers has it's simplicity and it's complexity. one does
not
need a college degree for any of these areas. But life could be much
greater If one digs a little deeper by reading a book or taking a class,
life could improve greatly.

My gardening years ago was terrible, many of my trees died, plants with
diseases, did I know why... No. However I did have successes, but could
not
replicate them and did not really know why. I have read many books on
gardening and that was helpful, but still things did not go well as I
hoped. My gardening skills took off after taking a few classes on
gardening.

Books alone does not always help. It is the combination of hardware and
software is where knowledge is improved. The gardeners has its tools
(hardware) and software(seeds and plants). Cooking also has tools (Oven)
and software (Ingredients).

As you say, it's not just books. You have to actually cook and so get the
experience in order to know what works and what doesn't.


My cooking and canning is like my gardening years ago... blah, I may take
a
local class for cooking someday, Not be the a Top Chef. Like gardening to
improve the quality of life.

I am a kid in a candy store of life. I want to sample everything:
Chess club (expert), Electronics (Associate Degree), Computer Programming
(Masters Degree), Amateur Radio (General Class), Guitar Lessons (No
talent,
was bad), Ballroom Dancing (Arthur Murray and other places 4 years of
fun),
Karate Lessons, Gardening (Master Gardening Volunteer Program) and
possibly cooking lessons may be in the future. My neighbors help provide
knowledge for my hobby farm.

Did I become the best in anything... No. It was for improvement of my
personal life.

:-)) Good reason for doing all of those things.

"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message
Brooklyn1 wrote:
"FarmI" wrote:
"Nad R" wrote:

Sounds reasonable, something I have not considered. But cooking,
cooking well is still a learning curve fro me.

I notice you hang out in rec.food.cooking where there are some
woeful food discussions and some people who haven't got the first
clue about how to cook but it's always good for a laugh.

Same as here with some who like to imply they're farmers.

Cooking isn't rocket science and is a lot like gardening.

Obviously for you horticulture and botany are not sciences.


Any way and any topic to disagree over is good for you. You obviously
know that "rocket science" in popular culture stands for things too
complex and difficult for the ordinary person to deal with but for the
sake of having a fight you must try to take it literally. Groan.

Take yourself to the local library and borrow a good basic cookery
book

Cooking from a book is like paint by numbers is art. Believe it or
not the worlds best cooks are totally illiterate... very few of the
cooks working in the finast restaurants graduated high school, and
most can't read or write a lick. Most highly skilled occupations
don't require one know how to read, that's why a skilled carpenter
only needs a blueprint to build a house... skilled machinists don't
need to know how to read, they build jet engines by refering to a
picture.

More provocative nonsense. Do you ever get tired of making stuff up
just to be able to disagree?

I'd no more want someone cooking my dinner by following a
recipe than undergo surgery by someone refering to an instruction
manual.

And once again you miss the point. The advice was how to get started not
how to become a top chef.

You're no more a farmer than a burger flipper is a cook. It's
easy to ascertain from reading Farm1's posts that he barely possesses
the literacy level of a 4th grader, and even though he is a functional
illiterate he has demonstrated no innate talents whatsoever.


More accumulated insults for no reason.

Great cooks are born with the talent, it cannot be learned.

At birth the Great Chef in The Sky reaches down and touches each one with
greatness like a larval bee that is given royal jelly. Yes they spring
forth from their mothers fully formed requiring no further experience or
knowledge. In this modern era they only go through apprenticeships and
years at tertiary education as a pretence. Throughout history none of
them ever studied under more experienced chefs nor read anything but Micky
Mouse strips in the Sunday papers.

And do notice that Nad R just wants to learn to cook, he says nothing
about becoming the next Escoffier.

Liberace
was not only one of the world's most renowned pianists he was also a
very accomplished cook, both innate talents, achieved both with no
formal education.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberace

Entirely irrelevant.

Are you worried that if you are civil and reasonable that you will be
ignored? Inventing insults for strangers sure is a strange way to get
noticed.

I've been reading Sheldon's posts for at least a decade and he's always been
exactly the same. No-one has ever had a good word to say for him or about
him.

Nad R wrote:
....
My gardening years ago was terrible, many of my trees died, plants with
diseases, did I know why... No. However I did have successes, but could not
replicate them and did not really know why. I have read many books on
gardening and that was helpful, but still things did not go well as I
hoped. My gardening skills took off after taking a few classes on
gardening.

the unfortunate thing about experience is that
it takes time and then kills all it's pupils.


Books alone does not always help. It is the combination of hardware and
software is where knowledge is improved. The gardeners has its tools
(hardware) and software(seeds and plants). Cooking also has tools (Oven)
and software (Ingredients).

books are a good starting point, but
in the end actual experience of getting
your hands in the dirt, observing the
plants, bugs, weeds, animals, weather, etc.
is what pays off.

first time gardeners freak out over a
chewed leaf or a bent stem and have to
"DO SOMETHING" about it. seasoned gardeners
know that sometimes the best answer is to
leave it alone.


My cooking and canning is like my gardening years ago... blah, I may take a
local class for cooking someday, Not be the a Top Chef. Like gardening to
improve the quality of life.

i've cooked since i was a kid. i'd
probably enjoy teaching someone to cook
and thought about offering lessons to
beginners. nothing fancy or expensive
but to get a person going and comfortable
with simple tasks.


I am a kid in a candy store of life. I want to sample everything:
Chess club (expert), Electronics (Associate Degree), Computer Programming
(Masters Degree), Amateur Radio (General Class), Guitar Lessons (No talent,
was bad), Ballroom Dancing (Arthur Murray and other places 4 years of fun),
Karate Lessons, Gardening (Master Gardening Volunteer Program) and
possibly cooking lessons may be in the future. My neighbors help provide
knowledge for my hobby farm.

good neighbors are wonderful. i'm like
you, tried a lot of things. i even know how
to sew (which is not many guys would admit)
and have my own machine. i wanted to learn
how to tat sometime, not yet...

i have troubles with formal classes in that
most cost $ and my body and learning styles
don't do well in them compared to what i can
do by using the library and internet.


Did I become the best in anything... No. It was for improvement of my
personal life.

yep. it is very hard for me to do things with
music/guitar, but i like that challenge.

as we say around here, "it's a good life
if you don't weaken."


songbird

Well, I picked up bessy from the butcher late afternoon yesterday.

I was wrong in some ways. I got a chuck steak and the fat was very yellow,
to my surprise. The butcher said this is normal for even a young Jersey. It
is because dairy cows have a much higher beta carotene that gives the
cheese and fat a yellow look. The yellow fat in a Jersey was very different
from an older cow.

He also said grass fed cows have a lower cholesterol count and tends to
taste better. The yellow fat is different than that of older cows. The
butcher said allot of his customers are now coming in with grass fed Jersey
Cows because they are smaller, good for a small family, tend to be a
healthier meat to eat over other types of beef.

Outside of high end steak houses. Bessy was far better than any steak I
have gotten from a supermarket.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)