I've been starting a lot of seeds indoors the past few weeks. I think that
for most of them it would be safe to move them outside in the near future
since our days lately have been in the upper 60's and nights in the upper
50's.

Many of the seeds I've started--for example sunflowers--do very well
initially and then fall over when they reach medium hight. Sometimes this
is caused by damping off disease, but many times it just seems that the
stemp can't support the weight of the leaves at the top.

In light of that, when I transplant the seeds, how deep can I bury the stem
in order to try and overcome this?

In other words, if the stem is 3" long, can I bury it so that only 1" is
above the ground initially, or will this kill the plant?

I know plants like tomatoes actually like to be buried in that fashion, but
I'm not sure of others.

Tony

Tony wrote:

...Many of the seeds I've started--for example sunflowers--do very well
initially and then fall over when they reach medium hight. Sometimes this
is caused by damping off disease, but many times it just seems that the
stemp can't support the weight of the leaves at the top...



Spindly stems sound like the plants are stretching for light. Are they
in a south-facing window or under lights?

Damping off can be reduced by good air circulation to minimize humidity
near the soil surface. Put a fan in the room. Don't over-water. Don't
judge the water requirement by the dryness of the soil surface. The best
indicator is the weight of the container.




In light of that, when I transplant the seeds, how deep can I bury the stem
in order to try and overcome this?

In other words, if the stem is 3" long, can I bury it so that only 1" is
above the ground initially, or will this kill the plant?

I know plants like tomatoes actually like to be buried in that fashion, but
I'm not sure of others...



Sunflowers can be buried deep, as long as there are a few leaves
showing. I've had them get a foot long and buried them with 3 leaves
out. They get set back a bit (mostly by the neglect that caused them to
get a foot long in the first place) but they will recover. This
observation is based on the hybrid pollenless varieties, which is all I
grow, but I don't see any reason why it would not work on the birdseed
varieties.

I think there are only a few types of plants that you can't bury a
little deeper to mitigate weak stems, and the seed packets generally say
something about it if it's important. So try it and see. If you find any
that don't work when buried a bit extra, let us know.

"Tony" wrote in message
news:B38C122CEB31E7EF.C07E6E004AFEE168.B47EBC8AD79 ...
I've been starting a lot of seeds indoors the past few weeks. I think
that
for most of them it would be safe to move them outside in the near future
since our days lately have been in the upper 60's and nights in the upper
50's.
It certainly wouldn't hurt to take the seedlings out during the day, but
don't place them in sunlight for a week or so until they're hardened. If the
temperatures drop into the 50's or lower at night, haul them back into the
house. Some seedlings such as cucumbers can't handle cold night
temperatures. I don't think I'd plant sunflowers inside but sow directly
where I want them to grow. They grow so rapidly that starting inside isn't
necessary, but if you've started them, by all means plant and leave them
outside as long as there is no danger of frost. Sunflower seedlings that are
planted and grow outside handle cold temperatures well.

Don't plant most seedlings below their initial level into the soil. It isn't
necessary. Even planting tomatoes deeply isn't necessary, but if they are
too leggy, they do develop roots along the stem. Personally, I don't like
leggy tomatoes.

John

On Thu, 27 Feb 2003 23:59:04 -0600, "B & J"
wrote:


Don't plant most seedlings below their initial level into the soil. It isn't
necessary. Even planting tomatoes deeply isn't necessary, but if they are
too leggy, they do develop roots along the stem. Personally, I don't like
leggy tomatoes.

John

My tomato seeds sprouted and i am afraid they are gettng too tall too
soon. I will plant them down to the leaves, but it will be interesting
to see if i can keep them alive that long. My cantalope is up too.
Come on spring! (I'm not going to start that again. Last time i did,
we had the worse ice storm in YEARS)
·.·´¨ ¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
jammer
((¸¸.·´ ..·´
-:¦:- ((¸¸

jammer wrote:

.... My cantalope is up too.
Come on spring! ...


You're clearly not in New England. My fields are still not visible. Not
time to think about melons yet. (about mid-April for seeding them).

Melons like it really hot. One way to get a jump on the season is to
combine black plastic film to heat up the soil (clear plastic film heats
it up more, but allows weeds to grow underneath) combined with a slitted
clear plastic row cover. The clear plastic heats the air by about 10F
during the day while the slits keep it from getting over 110F (unless,
of course, the outside air temperature gets up there). The slitted
plastic only gives a couple degrees of frost protection at night,
however, so don't start things too early. In New England (and other
short season areas) that's the only way to get large watermelons before
Labor Day, when the market for them goes to zero. (Cantaloupes are
quicker). Take the slitted plastic off when the vines just start growing
out the slits, in order to (1) allow pollinating insects access to the
flowers and (2) save the slitted row cover for next year without tearing
it up trying to get the vines untangled from it.

Last year I planted my seeds too early. Those I transplanted outside got
frosted (Zone 5). The rest (squash, watermelon, cantaloupe) stayed in the
pots too long and stunted the growth of the tap root. Then I needed to
water almost every day.

This year I found out when our last expected frost is expected, added 20
days, and then counted back 4 to 8 weeks. Cabbage, Cauliflower, broccoli,
and Brussels sprouts tolerate frost. I have those planted now (I saw green
yesterday, in the trays with broccoli and cabbage). A week or so later, I
planted two trays of onions. I wont be planting the rest for another 30 to
45 days.

On nice days I carried all the trays out to the back porch and got them
hardened off before putting them into the ground. I don't know where you
are located, but if you were here, I would say you started them too soon,
unless you have a green house.

Leggy plants are reaching for light. If they get too leggy you will more
than likely lose them. When I planted my sunflowers, I staked them up,
until they could stand on their own. I left them in the peat moss boxes
that you are supposed to be able to plant box and all. I found out that you
cant do that in a windy area. Not enough roots get out of the box to keep
them in an upright position.

Good luck and have fun. Dwayne


"jammer" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 Feb 2003 23:59:04 -0600, "B & J"
wrote:


Don't plant most seedlings below their initial level into the soil. It
isn't
necessary. Even planting tomatoes deeply isn't necessary, but if they are
too leggy, they do develop roots along the stem. Personally, I don't like
leggy tomatoes.

John

My tomato seeds sprouted and i am afraid they are gettng too tall too
soon. I will plant them down to the leaves, but it will be interesting
to see if i can keep them alive that long. My cantalope is up too.
Come on spring! (I'm not going to start that again. Last time i did,
we had the worse ice storm in YEARS)
·.·´¨ ¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
jammer
((¸¸.·´ ..·´
-:¦:- ((¸¸

Jammer,

I've had to transplant my tomatoes (starting them inside) twice already.
(And probably will have to do it one more time before they're able to be put
in the ground.) Each time I bury them down to the first set of leaves and
they seem to love it! I'm growing under fluorescents with a fan circulating
air.

Cheryl
"jammer" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 Feb 2003 23:59:04 -0600, "B & J"
wrote:


Don't plant most seedlings below their initial level into the soil. It
isn't
necessary. Even planting tomatoes deeply isn't necessary, but if they are
too leggy, they do develop roots along the stem. Personally, I don't like
leggy tomatoes.

John

My tomato seeds sprouted and i am afraid they are gettng too tall too
soon. I will plant them down to the leaves, but it will be interesting
to see if i can keep them alive that long. My cantalope is up too.
Come on spring! (I'm not going to start that again. Last time i did,
we had the worse ice storm in YEARS)
·.·´¨ ¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
jammer
((¸¸.·´ ..·´
-:¦:- ((¸¸

Try and brush the tops of any seedlings indoors several times a day,
it will help keep them stocky and helps toughen the stems for the
"real world". (just use your hand). This does work, and is actually
used commercially instead of growth regulators, with at least as good
results! The minor damage that occurs with movement of the plant stem
signals the plant to toughen the stem up.... good luck with the
lopes!!!

jammer wrote in message . ..
On Thu, 27 Feb 2003 23:59:04 -0600, "B & J"
wrote:


Don't plant most seedlings below their initial level into the soil. It isn't
necessary. Even planting tomatoes deeply isn't necessary, but if they are
too leggy, they do develop roots along the stem. Personally, I don't like
leggy tomatoes.

John

My tomato seeds sprouted and i am afraid they are gettng too tall too
soon. I will plant them down to the leaves, but it will be interesting
to see if i can keep them alive that long. My cantalope is up too.
Come on spring! (I'm not going to start that again. Last time i did,
we had the worse ice storm in YEARS)
·.·´¨ ¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
jammer
((¸¸.·´ ..·´
-:¦:- ((¸¸

On 28 Feb 2003 09:26:06 -0800, (jcart003)
wrote:

Try and brush the tops of any seedlings indoors several times a day,
it will help keep them stocky and helps toughen the stems for the
"real world". (just use your hand). This does work, and is actually
used commercially instead of growth regulators, with at least as good
results! The minor damage that occurs with movement of the plant stem
signals the plant to toughen the stem up.... good luck with the
lopes!!!

That's really cool, what do i have to lose in trying it? Thanks!

·.·´¨ ¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
jammer
((¸¸.·´ ..·´
-:¦:- ((¸¸

That's cool and very good for this crazy place. Sometimes it warms up,
i plant, and end up losing some things to frost! Thanks, i will check
it out.


On Fri, 28 Feb 2003 07:34:45 -0500, Dwight Sipler
wrote:

jammer wrote:

.... My cantalope is up too.
Come on spring! ...


You're clearly not in New England. My fields are still not visible. Not
time to think about melons yet. (about mid-April for seeding them).

Melons like it really hot. One way to get a jump on the season is to
combine black plastic film to heat up the soil (clear plastic film heats
it up more, but allows weeds to grow underneath) combined with a slitted
clear plastic row cover. The clear plastic heats the air by about 10F
during the day while the slits keep it from getting over 110F (unless,
of course, the outside air temperature gets up there). The slitted
plastic only gives a couple degrees of frost protection at night,
however, so don't start things too early. In New England (and other
short season areas) that's the only way to get large watermelons before
Labor Day, when the market for them goes to zero. (Cantaloupes are
quicker). Take the slitted plastic off when the vines just start growing
out the slits, in order to (1) allow pollinating insects access to the
flowers and (2) save the slitted row cover for next year without tearing
it up trying to get the vines untangled from it.

·.·´¨ ¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
jammer
((¸¸.·´ ..·´
-:¦:- ((¸¸

On Fri, 28 Feb 2003 06:45:33 -0700, "Dwayne" wrote:

Last year I planted my seeds too early. Those I transplanted outside got
frosted (Zone 5). The rest (squash, watermelon, cantaloupe) stayed in the
pots too long and stunted the growth of the tap root. Then I needed to
water almost every day.

This is my first year growing from seed. I probably did start too
early, but i have more seeds

This year I found out when our last expected frost is expected, added 20
days, and then counted back 4 to 8 weeks. Cabbage, Cauliflower, broccoli,
and Brussels sprouts tolerate frost. I have those planted now (I saw green
yesterday, in the trays with broccoli and cabbage). A week or so later, I
planted two trays of onions. I wont be planting the rest for another 30 to
45 days.

I haven't tried winter crops yet. That and fall gardening i will get
to do one of these days.

On nice days I carried all the trays out to the back porch and got them
hardened off before putting them into the ground. I don't know where you
are located, but if you were here, I would say you started them too soon,
unless you have a green house.

I will harden them off if i can keep them alive. We *might* get up to
60 this week, if i see a chance to give the seedlings any real sun, i
sure will, if only for a little while.

Leggy plants are reaching for light. If they get too leggy you will more
than likely lose them. When I planted my sunflowers, I staked them up,
until they could stand on their own. I left them in the peat moss boxes
that you are supposed to be able to plant box and all. I found out that you
cant do that in a windy area. Not enough roots get out of the box to keep
them in an upright position.

When these seedlings get two sets of leaves, and i pot them, can i
them bury them down to those leaves? I will planting them deep when i
set them in the ground. (Seems like that day is never going to come)

Good luck and have fun. Dwayne

Thanks!



·.·´¨ ¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
jammer
((¸¸.·´ ..·´
-:¦:- ((¸¸

If you are really sure to lose the new planting this could help, but I
just tried this 3 days ago. It's from a solar gardening book.

We've had the coldest winter too, so bad the snow and ice hasn't much
melted in 2 weeks, like a record. I 'had' to see my hellebores again.
They were frozen under. I part way filled heavy-duty black, plastic
lawn bags with luke warm water. Then I drove stakes in the to keep
them from spreading into the plants. I covered them tightly with those
plastic window well covers. though a tight cold frame would work too.
First night it was 8 degrees and the bags inside were still liquid in
the morning. One outside was hard as a rock. Sunshine super-heats the
air but the water absorbs that immediately, so its been very slow to
melt, but hellebor-ishly fine weather inside. I've got most of them
defrosted. I'm happy. They are happy (it seems). I'm going to cover
these plants next year. I'm impatient and February bites.

Someone said to move your fingers across the seedlings to harden them.
I want to report that this starts working within a few days. And
thanks to whoever said it.
·.·´¨ ¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
jammer
((¸¸.·´ ..·´
-:¦:- ((¸¸

jammer wrote...
Someone said to move your fingers across the seedlings to harden them.
I want to report that this starts working within a few days. And
thanks to whoever said it.

Well, it didn't do anything for my tomatoes, but you should see the
size of my zucchinis! (sorry, old gardening joke) ;-)