Curious whether other experienced home gardeners are observing same phenomenon:

Last year or two -- most notable this year -- things are not happened when they're 'posed to. Have not collected exact data, alas, with 20-20 hindsight. But generally plants bloom and bear later (I think!!!) than usual per "normal" observations over decades.

First impulse is to blame it on global warming, and maybe that's exactly where blame should fall. Just wanting to collect more data in different zones as well as mine -- So.Calif.coastal (Mediterranean).

TIA

HB

On 8/17/2014 11:18 AM, Higgs Boson wrote:

Curious whether other experienced home gardeners are observing same
phenomenon:

Last year or two -- most notable this year -- things are not happened
when they're 'posed to. Have not collected exact data, alas, with
20-20 hindsight. But generally plants bloom and bear later (I
think!!!) than usual per "normal" observations over decades.

First impulse is to blame it on global warming, and maybe that's
exactly where blame should fall. Just wanting to collect more data
in different zones as well as mine -- So.Calif.coastal
(Mediterranean).

I have noticed that flowering shrubs and trees are blooming EARLIER than
normal. Also, many deciduous trees are failing to leaf out normally.
My peach tree had only two peaches.

We had a much warmer than usual winter. In the 13 winters from
2000-2001 through 2012-2013, my area had an annual average of 366 hours
of temperatures at or below 45F from 1 November through 31 March. This
past winter, we had only 127 hours, less than half the average. This
was less than the relatively warm winter of 2002-2003, when we had 153
hours.

You likely had even less chill than I since you live closer to the ocean
while the Santa Monica Mountains separate me from the moderating effect
of the ocean.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

On Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:31:50 AM UTC-7, David E. Ross wrote:
On 8/17/2014 11:18 AM, Higgs Boson wrote:



Curious whether other experienced home gardeners are observing same

phenomenon:



Last year or two -- most notable this year -- things are not happened

when they're 'posed to. Have not collected exact data, alas, with

20-20 hindsight. But generally plants bloom and bear later (I

think!!!) than usual per "normal" observations over decades.



First impulse is to blame it on global warming, and maybe that's

exactly where blame should fall. Just wanting to collect more data

in different zones as well as mine -- So.Calif.coastal

(Mediterranean).



I have noticed that flowering shrubs and trees are blooming EARLIER than

normal. Also, many deciduous trees are failing to leaf out normally.

My peach tree had only two peaches.



We had a much warmer than usual winter. In the 13 winters from

2000-2001 through 2012-2013, my area had an annual average of 366 hours

of temperatures at or below 45F from 1 November through 31 March. This

past winter, we had only 127 hours, less than half the average. This

was less than the relatively warm winter of 2002-2003, when we had 153

hours.



You likely had even less chill than I since you live closer to the ocean

while the Santa Monica Mountains separate me from the moderating effect

of the ocean.

We also had very little (no?) chill.

And ONE little rain. (For NG members in other climes: Rainy season is technically November to March.} Hah!!! My already horrifying water bill is going through the roof! And I do not waste water! But neither do I want my ornamentals to suffer/die.

As to food plants, I have had such terrible luck this past year that I just don't see the point in planting. I'll just have to pay the prices at the Co-Op or farmer's markets for decent edibles.

Sigh!

HB

On 08/17/2014 11:18 AM, Higgs Boson wrote:
Curious whether other experienced home gardeners are observing same phenomenon:

Last year or two -- most notable this year -- things are not happened when they're 'posed to. Have not collected exact data, alas, with 20-20 hindsight. But generally plants bloom and bear later (I think!!!) than usual per "normal" observations over decades.

First impulse is to blame it on global warming, and maybe that's exactly where blame should fall. Just wanting to collect more data in different zones as well as mine -- So.Calif.coastal (Mediterranean).

TIA

HB




Hi Higgs,

You a dude or a chick? (It is rude to address folks by
the wrong gender.)

Were I am at in Northern Nevada, low pressure system over
South PRC rotate moisture off your oceans, around Los
Vegas (been humid as hell there), around Utah, and smack
into the back side of the Sierra Nevada mountains.

For the last three weeks we have had thunderstorm every
afternoon because of that. Plus, unseasonably low
temperatures. They have finally stopped, just in time
for Hot August Nights.

So you too should see some improvements, soon. Just
hold on.

-T

On 18/08/2014 4:18 AM, Higgs Boson wrote:
Curious whether other experienced home gardeners are observing same phenomenon:

Last year or two -- most notable this year -- things are not happened when they're 'posed to.

Yep. That seems to be the new pattern - ie, no dependability at all.


Have not collected exact data, alas, with 20-20 hindsight. But
generally plants bloom and bear later (I think!!!) than usual per
"normal" observations over decades.

First impulse is to blame it on global warming, and maybe that's exactly where blame should fall. Just wanting to collect more data in different zones as well as mine -- So.Calif.coastal (Mediterranean).

We've found that things such as the last frost date can't be at all
relied upon - one year the last frost date will be weeks earlier, the
next year itll be like we get two Springs - a warm spell and every sign
that Spring has arrived (such as birds collecting nesting material and
bud burst etc and then it's back to really chilly weather again with
frosts and that occurs long past the time of the 'old' last frost date.
Also, and probably the worst thing, the rainfall has dropped over the
past 15 years by about a third.

Climate change is upon us.

On Sun, 17 Aug 2014 14:05:24 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson
wrote:

On Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:31:50 AM UTC-7, David E. Ross wrote:
On 8/17/2014 11:18 AM, Higgs Boson wrote:

Curious whether other experienced home gardeners are observing same
phenomenon:

Last year or two -- most notable this year -- things are not happened
when they're 'posed to. Have not collected exact data, alas, with
20-20 hindsight. But generally plants bloom and bear later (I
think!!!) than usual per "normal" observations over decades.

First impulse is to blame it on global warming, and maybe that's
exactly where blame should fall. Just wanting to collect more data
in different zones as well as mine -- So.Calif.coastal
(Mediterranean).

I have noticed that flowering shrubs and trees are blooming EARLIER than
normal. Also, many deciduous trees are failing to leaf out normally.

My peach tree had only two peaches.
We had a much warmer than usual winter. In the 13 winters from
2000-2001 through 2012-2013, my area had an annual average of 366 hours
of temperatures at or below 45F from 1 November through 31 March. This
past winter, we had only 127 hours, less than half the average. This
was less than the relatively warm winter of 2002-2003, when we had 153
hours.

You likely had even less chill than I since you live closer to the ocean
while the Santa Monica Mountains separate me from the moderating effect
of the ocean.

We also had very little (no?) chill.

And ONE little rain. (For NG members in other climes: Rainy season is technically November to March.} Hah!!! My already horrifying water bill is going through the roof! And I do not waste water! But neither do I want my ornamentals to suffer/die.

As to food plants, I have had such terrible luck this past year that I just don't see the point in planting. I'll just have to pay the prices at the Co-Op or farmer's markets for decent edibles.

Sigh!

HB

Insufficient chill will delay yield and ripening in many crops. Enough
(lack of chill) will completely inhibit setting fruit in some fruit trees.

?-)

On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 12:04:06 AM UTC-7, josephkk wrote:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2014 14:05:24 -0700 (PDT), Higgs Boson

wrote:



On Sunday, August 17, 2014 11:31:50 AM UTC-7, David E. Ross wrote:

On 8/17/2014 11:18 AM, Higgs Boson wrote:



Curious whether other experienced home gardeners are observing same

phenomenon:



Last year or two -- most notable this year -- things are not happened

when they're 'posed to. Have not collected exact data, alas, with

20-20 hindsight. But generally plants bloom and bear later (I

think!!!) than usual per "normal" observations over decades.



First impulse is to blame it on global warming, and maybe that's

exactly where blame should fall. Just wanting to collect more data

in different zones as well as mine -- So.Calif.coastal

(Mediterranean).



I have noticed that flowering shrubs and trees are blooming EARLIER than normal. Also, many deciduous trees are failing to leaf out normally.
My peach tree had only two peaches. We had a much warmer than usual winter. In the 13 winters from 2000-2001 through 2012-2013, my area had an annual average of 366 hours of temperatures at or below 45F from 1 November through 31 March. This past winter, we had only 127 hours, less than half the average. This was less than the relatively warm winter of 2002-2003, when we had 153 hours.

You likely had even less chill than I since you live closer to the ocean

while the Santa Monica Mountains separate me from the moderating effect

of the ocean.



We also had very little (no?) chill.



And ONE little rain. (For NG members in other climes: Rainy season is technically November to March.} Hah!!! My already horrifying water bill is going through the roof! And I do not waste water! But neither do I want my ornamentals to suffer/die.



As to food plants, I have had such terrible luck this past year that I just don't see the point in planting. I'll just have to pay the prices at the Co-Op or farmer's markets for decent edibles.



Sigh!



HB



Insufficient chill will delay yield and ripening in many crops. Enough

(lack of chill) will completely inhibit setting fruit in some fruit trees..

fruit setting: I am a blueberry freak, and for decades yearned to grow them but they required far more winter chill than this area offers. Finally some varieties were developed that would work here. I tried a couple, but they didn't make it past the second year. Maybe it's just me; they keep on selling, but like other such experiments, I took the (tough) decision to let it be.

?-)

HB

On 8/17/2014 10:41 PM, Fran Farmer wrote:
On 18/08/2014 4:18 AM, Higgs Boson wrote:
Curious whether other experienced home gardeners are observing same
phenomenon:

Last year or two -- most notable this year -- things are not happened
when they're 'posed to.

Yep. That seems to be the new pattern - ie, no dependability at all.


Have not collected exact data, alas, with 20-20 hindsight. But
generally plants bloom and bear later (I think!!!) than usual per
"normal" observations over decades.

First impulse is to blame it on global warming, and maybe that's
exactly where blame should fall. Just wanting to collect more data
in different zones as well as mine -- So.Calif.coastal (Mediterranean).

We've found that things such as the last frost date can't be at all
relied upon - one year the last frost date will be weeks earlier, the
next year itll be like we get two Springs - a warm spell and every sign
that Spring has arrived (such as birds collecting nesting material and
bud burst etc and then it's back to really chilly weather again with
frosts and that occurs long past the time of the 'old' last frost date.
Also, and probably the worst thing, the rainfall has dropped over the
past 15 years by about a third.

Climate change is upon us.

Some call it climate change but I call it weather.
We had a long snowy, cold winter that would have made you wish for
global warming. Term is now out of fashion for "climate change."
More or less normal summer and I got lots of tomatoes.

On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 1:01:06 PM UTC-7, Frank wrote:
On 8/17/2014 10:41 PM, Fran Farmer wrote:

On 18/08/2014 4:18 AM, Higgs Boson wrote:

Curious whether other experienced home gardeners are observing same

phenomenon:



Last year or two -- most notable this year -- things are not happened

when they're 'posed to.



Yep. That seems to be the new pattern - ie, no dependability at all.

Have not collected exact data, alas, with 20-20 hindsight. But

generally plants bloom and bear later (I think!!!) than usual per

"normal" observations over decades.



First impulse is to blame it on global warming, and maybe that's

exactly where blame should fall. Just wanting to collect more data

in different zones as well as mine -- So.Calif.coastal (Mediterranean).



We've found that things such as the last frost date can't be at all

relied upon - one year the last frost date will be weeks earlier, the

next year itll be like we get two Springs - a warm spell and every sign

that Spring has arrived (such as birds collecting nesting material and

bud burst etc and then it's back to really chilly weather again with

frosts and that occurs long past the time of the 'old' last frost date.

Also, and probably the worst thing, the rainfall has dropped over the

past 15 years by about a third.



Climate change is upon us.



Some call it climate change but I call it weather.

We had a long snowy, cold winter that would have made you wish for

global warming. Term is now out of fashion for "climate change."

More or less normal summer and I got lots of tomatoes.

Frank, not to re-open the perennial debate over climate change/global warming -- but could you say if you are a "denier", or just offering a clip of your area's past winter?

HB

On 08/19/2014 06:53 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 1:01:06 PM UTC-7, Frank wrote:
On 8/17/2014 10:41 PM, Fran Farmer wrote:

On 18/08/2014 4:18 AM, Higgs Boson wrote:

Curious whether other experienced home gardeners are observing same

phenomenon:



Last year or two -- most notable this year -- things are not happened

when they're 'posed to.



Yep. That seems to be the new pattern - ie, no dependability at all.

Have not collected exact data, alas, with 20-20 hindsight. But

generally plants bloom and bear later (I think!!!) than usual per

"normal" observations over decades.



First impulse is to blame it on global warming, and maybe that's

exactly where blame should fall. Just wanting to collect more data

in different zones as well as mine -- So.Calif.coastal (Mediterranean).



We've found that things such as the last frost date can't be at all

relied upon - one year the last frost date will be weeks earlier, the

next year itll be like we get two Springs - a warm spell and every sign

that Spring has arrived (such as birds collecting nesting material and

bud burst etc and then it's back to really chilly weather again with

frosts and that occurs long past the time of the 'old' last frost date.

Also, and probably the worst thing, the rainfall has dropped over the

past 15 years by about a third.



Climate change is upon us.



Some call it climate change but I call it weather.

We had a long snowy, cold winter that would have made you wish for

global warming. Term is now out of fashion for "climate change."

More or less normal summer and I got lots of tomatoes.

Frank, not to re-open the perennial debate over climate change/global warming -- but could you say if you are a "denier", or just offering a clip of your area's past winter?

HB


And here we go with the extremist religious terms again.

On 8/19/2014 9:53 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 1:01:06 PM UTC-7, Frank wrote:
On 8/17/2014 10:41 PM, Fran Farmer wrote:

On 18/08/2014 4:18 AM, Higgs Boson wrote:

Curious whether other experienced home gardeners are observing same

phenomenon:



Last year or two -- most notable this year -- things are not happened

when they're 'posed to.



Yep. That seems to be the new pattern - ie, no dependability at all.

Have not collected exact data, alas, with 20-20 hindsight. But

generally plants bloom and bear later (I think!!!) than usual per

"normal" observations over decades.



First impulse is to blame it on global warming, and maybe that's

exactly where blame should fall. Just wanting to collect more data

in different zones as well as mine -- So.Calif.coastal (Mediterranean).



We've found that things such as the last frost date can't be at all

relied upon - one year the last frost date will be weeks earlier, the

next year itll be like we get two Springs - a warm spell and every sign

that Spring has arrived (such as birds collecting nesting material and

bud burst etc and then it's back to really chilly weather again with

frosts and that occurs long past the time of the 'old' last frost date.

Also, and probably the worst thing, the rainfall has dropped over the

past 15 years by about a third.



Climate change is upon us.



Some call it climate change but I call it weather.

We had a long snowy, cold winter that would have made you wish for

global warming. Term is now out of fashion for "climate change."

More or less normal summer and I got lots of tomatoes.

Frank, not to re-open the perennial debate over climate change/global warming -- but could you say if you are a "denier", or just offering a clip of your area's past winter?

HB


I'm not a denier but a skeptic.

There may be some evidence to indicate warming but proof that it is man
made is sparse and draconian measures to prevent it, I believe, are way
out of line.

I also like to needle libs like you

On 8/20/2014 4:28 PM, Todd wrote:
On 08/19/2014 06:53 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 1:01:06 PM UTC-7, Frank wrote:
On 8/17/2014 10:41 PM, Fran Farmer wrote:

On 18/08/2014 4:18 AM, Higgs Boson wrote:

Curious whether other experienced home gardeners are observing same

phenomenon:



Last year or two -- most notable this year -- things are not happened

when they're 'posed to.



Yep. That seems to be the new pattern - ie, no dependability at all.

Have not collected exact data, alas, with 20-20 hindsight. But

generally plants bloom and bear later (I think!!!) than usual per

"normal" observations over decades.



First impulse is to blame it on global warming, and maybe that's

exactly where blame should fall. Just wanting to collect more data

in different zones as well as mine -- So.Calif.coastal
(Mediterranean).



We've found that things such as the last frost date can't be at all

relied upon - one year the last frost date will be weeks earlier, the

next year itll be like we get two Springs - a warm spell and every sign

that Spring has arrived (such as birds collecting nesting material and

bud burst etc and then it's back to really chilly weather again with

frosts and that occurs long past the time of the 'old' last frost date.

Also, and probably the worst thing, the rainfall has dropped over
the

past 15 years by about a third.



Climate change is upon us.



Some call it climate change but I call it weather.

We had a long snowy, cold winter that would have made you wish for

global warming. Term is now out of fashion for "climate change."

More or less normal summer and I got lots of tomatoes.

Frank, not to re-open the perennial debate over climate change/global
warming -- but could you say if you are a "denier", or just offering a
clip of your area's past winter?

HB


And here we go with the extremist religious terms again.


With the liberal, progressive, control freaks, it is a religion.
Denier in my work was the weight in grams of 9,000 meters of filament or
yarn.

On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 3:29:49 PM UTC-7, Frank wrote:
On 8/19/2014 9:53 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 1:01:06 PM UTC-7, Frank wrote:

On 8/17/2014 10:41 PM, Fran Farmer wrote:



On 18/08/2014 4:18 AM, Higgs Boson wrote:



Curious whether other experienced home gardeners are observing same



phenomenon:







Last year or two -- most notable this year -- things are not happened



when they're 'posed to.







Yep. That seems to be the new pattern - ie, no dependability at all.



Have not collected exact data, alas, with 20-20 hindsight. But



generally plants bloom and bear later (I think!!!) than usual per



"normal" observations over decades.







First impulse is to blame it on global warming, and maybe that's



exactly where blame should fall. Just wanting to collect more data



in different zones as well as mine -- So.Calif.coastal (Mediterranean).







We've found that things such as the last frost date can't be at all



relied upon - one year the last frost date will be weeks earlier, the



next year itll be like we get two Springs - a warm spell and every sign



that Spring has arrived (such as birds collecting nesting material and



bud burst etc and then it's back to really chilly weather again with



frosts and that occurs long past the time of the 'old' last frost date.



Also, and probably the worst thing, the rainfall has dropped over the



past 15 years by about a third.







Climate change is upon us.







Some call it climate change but I call it weather.



We had a long snowy, cold winter that would have made you wish for



global warming. Term is now out of fashion for "climate change."



More or less normal summer and I got lots of tomatoes.



Frank, not to re-open the perennial debate over climate change/global warming -- but could you say if you are a "denier", or just offering a clip of your area's past winter?



HB





I'm not a denier but a skeptic.



There may be some evidence to indicate warming but proof that it is man

made is sparse and draconian measures to prevent it, I believe, are way

out of line.



I also like to needle libs like you

Frank, I thought we were going steady for a while! Now I fear that I might have to consign you to the gehenna where I put all who use the term "libs" when addressing moi.

In the immortal words of the late Rodney King: "Can't we all get along?"

HB
(freaking INDEPENDENT!)

On 08/20/2014 05:42 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
HB
(freaking INDEPENDENT!)

Hi Higgs,

If you look in the sky and see a flock of birds and they
look like ducks, that fly like ducks, that sound like ducks,
it is a good sign that at least some of them are ducks.

With the exception of Israel, you are as left wing as they come.
You even support butchering helpless children (abortion) in
violation of your Jewish faith. (Thou shalt not murder.)

It is a common technique for a left winger to say they are
independent. It is, to borrow a term from you, "freaking"
disingenuous.

Don't worry. I will still share some of my moon cheese with you.
(Might have a tad bit of a problem getting it down here. But,
when I do, I will solve the world's hunger problems. Well,
unless you are lactose intolerant, then too bad.)

-T

Do I hear some ducks quacking?

On 8/20/2014 8:42 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:
On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 3:29:49 PM UTC-7, Frank wrote:
On 8/19/2014 9:53 PM, Higgs Boson wrote:

On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 1:01:06 PM UTC-7, Frank wrote:

On 8/17/2014 10:41 PM, Fran Farmer wrote:



On 18/08/2014 4:18 AM, Higgs Boson wrote:



Curious whether other experienced home gardeners are observing same



phenomenon:







Last year or two -- most notable this year -- things are not happened



when they're 'posed to.







Yep. That seems to be the new pattern - ie, no dependability at all.



Have not collected exact data, alas, with 20-20 hindsight. But



generally plants bloom and bear later (I think!!!) than usual per



"normal" observations over decades.







First impulse is to blame it on global warming, and maybe that's



exactly where blame should fall. Just wanting to collect more data



in different zones as well as mine -- So.Calif.coastal (Mediterranean).







We've found that things such as the last frost date can't be at all



relied upon - one year the last frost date will be weeks earlier, the



next year itll be like we get two Springs - a warm spell and every sign



that Spring has arrived (such as birds collecting nesting material and



bud burst etc and then it's back to really chilly weather again with



frosts and that occurs long past the time of the 'old' last frost date.



Also, and probably the worst thing, the rainfall has dropped over the



past 15 years by about a third.







Climate change is upon us.







Some call it climate change but I call it weather.



We had a long snowy, cold winter that would have made you wish for



global warming. Term is now out of fashion for "climate change."



More or less normal summer and I got lots of tomatoes.



Frank, not to re-open the perennial debate over climate change/global warming -- but could you say if you are a "denier", or just offering a clip of your area's past winter?



HB





I'm not a denier but a skeptic.



There may be some evidence to indicate warming but proof that it is man

made is sparse and draconian measures to prevent it, I believe, are way

out of line.



I also like to needle libs like you

Frank, I thought we were going steady for a while! Now I fear that I might have to consign you to the gehenna where I put all who use the term "libs" when addressing moi.

In the immortal words of the late Rodney King: "Can't we all get along?"

HB
(freaking INDEPENDENT!)


We get along when you are rational.