Which birds?

If you are talking about starlings and house finches, you are nuts.

Those alien invader pests from Europe have bullied out most of the native
bird species and have done far more damage than cats ever could.


J Kolenovsky wrote in message
...
in order to protect the birds feeding in the garden.
--
J. Kolenovsky, A+, Network +, MCP
ô¿ô - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
ô¿ô - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal

And don't forget the sparrows that hurt our bluebird population. If my cat
ever made it outdoors to kill a few of these species, I'd consider it poetic
justice, being that domestic cats are sort of "man-made," in a sense.
(I vehemently support the "spay" comment, though.)




"Cereoid-UR12-" wrote in message
. ..
Which birds?

If you are talking about starlings and house finches, you are nuts.

Those alien invader pests from Europe have bullied out most of the native
bird species and have done far more damage than cats ever could.


J Kolenovsky wrote in message
...
in order to protect the birds feeding in the garden.
--
J. Kolenovsky, A+, Network +, MCP
ô¿ô - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
ô¿ô - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal

I would argue that urban sprawl has done far more damage to native species of
all kinds than every cat on the planet. If you restore your gardens back to
their native habit, the native species definitely show up and horn out the
invaders.

I never allowed my cats out, alone. Since neighbors around here do, from time
to time allow their cats out, I have put up a cheap way to keep them out. On
the top of the fence I nailed some of that cheap border wire fencing found at
cheapo stores. The tines you stick in the ground I face upward, and bend those
to face outside the fence. No cat can get up and around that. At the bottom I
lay my rose trimmings where we hardly use the service gates, and where the main
gate is, I keep it tightly fitted using stepping stones. Barely a mouse can get
through that.

Problem solved.



On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:57:59 GMT, "Cereoid-UR12-" wrote:

Which birds?

If you are talking about starlings and house finches, you are nuts.

Those alien invader pests from Europe have bullied out most of the native
bird species and have done far more damage than cats ever could.


J Kolenovsky wrote in message
...
in order to protect the birds feeding in the garden.

Cats are the only animal who chose domestication. It started in Egypt. The
cats would recognize around the huge silo of corn or grain, and that in these
silo's were plenty of mice and rats. Cats came into the situation and adopted
people. No other animal has ever intentionally domesticated like the now named,
common house cat.


On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 20:09:29 -0500, "Lynne" wrote:

And don't forget the sparrows that hurt our bluebird population. If my cat
ever made it outdoors to kill a few of these species, I'd consider it poetic
justice, being that domestic cats are sort of "man-made," in a sense.
(I vehemently support the "spay" comment, though.)




"Cereoid-UR12-" wrote in message
...
Which birds?

If you are talking about starlings and house finches, you are nuts.

Those alien invader pests from Europe have bullied out most of the native
bird species and have done far more damage than cats ever could.


J Kolenovsky wrote in message
...
in order to protect the birds feeding in the garden.
--
J. Kolenovsky, A+, Network +, MCP
ô¿ô - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
ô¿ô - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal

"animaux" wrote in message
...
I would argue that urban sprawl has done far more damage to native species
of
all kinds than every cat on the planet. If you restore your gardens back
to
their native habit, the native species definitely show up and horn out the
invaders.

I never allowed my cats out, alone. Since neighbors around here do, from
time
to time allow their cats out, I have put up a cheap way to keep them out.
On
the top of the fence I nailed some of that cheap border wire fencing found
at
cheapo stores. The tines you stick in the ground I face upward, and bend
those
to face outside the fence. No cat can get up and around that. At the
bottom I
lay my rose trimmings where we hardly use the service gates, and where the
main
gate is, I keep it tightly fitted using stepping stones. Barely a mouse
can get
through that.

Problem solved.


But why should you have to go to all that trouble?

Graham

"graham" wrote in message
. ca...

"animaux" wrote in message
...
I would argue that urban sprawl has done far more damage to native
species
of
all kinds than every cat on the planet. If you restore your
gardens back
to
their native habit, the native species definitely show up and horn
out the
invaders.

I never allowed my cats out, alone. Since neighbors around here
do, from
time
to time allow their cats out, I have put up a cheap way to keep
them out.
On
the top of the fence I nailed some of that cheap border wire
fencing found
at
cheapo stores. The tines you stick in the ground I face upward,
and bend
those
to face outside the fence. No cat can get up and around that. At
the
bottom I
lay my rose trimmings where we hardly use the service gates, and
where the
main
gate is, I keep it tightly fitted using stepping stones. Barely a
mouse
can get
through that.

Problem solved.


But why should you have to go to all that trouble?

Because she doesn't want animals getting into her yard? Same as anyone
else wanting to keep animals out should do.

Just make owning ANY animal within city limits illegal and pay $5.00 a
head for any wild animal pelts brought into the pound. A few years of
that and you'd all be happy, eh?

Dumbasses.

Cats are the only animal who chose domestication. It started in Egypt. The
cats would recognize around the huge silo of corn or grain, and that in these
silo's were plenty of mice and rats. Cats came into the situation and adopted
people. No other animal has ever intentionally domesticated like the now
named,
common house cat.


You mean besides dogs? Actually the dogs are believed to have domesticated
themselves way before cats.

Read here... among many other sites.
http://new.mypetstop.com/NR/exeres/E...04F042CC04F,62
D23A97-B7B6-416A-8436-B0CD978463B4,frameless.htm?Section=Relationship

Laura B.

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 03:36:57 GMT, "graham" wrote:


But why should you have to go to all that trouble?

Graham


It was not trouble. It took a grand total of one hour of my entire life. I'd
prefer to spend an hour being part of the solution than a minute as part of the
problem. People will never change. Cats are not aware they are doing anything
wrong. So, to end my own angst, I did what I did and so far I've not had a
problem with cats or anything else. My wish is for it to stay like that, but
should it not stay like that, I will figure out another solution.

I don't "have" to do anything. I do it because it's now done. I have no other
wisdom on it.

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 04:17:42 GMT, "Some One" wrote:



Because she doesn't want animals getting into her yard? Same as anyone
else wanting to keep animals out should do.

Just make owning ANY animal within city limits illegal and pay $5.00 a
head for any wild animal pelts brought into the pound. A few years of
that and you'd all be happy, eh?

Dumbasses.


I am never happy when pe(l)ts are brought to the pound. I adore animals.
That's why I use a barrier method, unlike my neighbor who was arrested a few
years back for putting out a substance cats will drink and die. Same dick who
traps neighbors cats and lets them loose far from home.

On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 01:41:42 GMT, animaux wrote:

Cats are the only animal who chose domestication. It started in Egypt. The
cats would recognize around the huge silo of corn or grain, and that in these
silo's were plenty of mice and rats. Cats came into the situation and adopted
people. No other animal has ever intentionally domesticated like the now named,
common house cat.

Strictly speaking, cats aren't "domesticated", meaning substantially
changed from their wild counterparts and bred for the benefit of man.
While hundreds (thousands?) of dog breeds are quite different from
wolves in physiology and habit, cats are more "tamed" than
"domesticated." Simply going where the food is doesn't imply
domestication. :-)

On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:57:59 GMT, "Cereoid-UR12-"
wrote:


J Kolenovsky wrote in message
...

I can't find this msg nohow.

In article , Frogleg
wrote:

Strictly speaking, cats aren't "domesticated", meaning substantially
changed from their wild counterparts and bred for the benefit of man.
While hundreds (thousands?) of dog breeds are quite different from
wolves in physiology and habit, cats are more "tamed" than
"domesticated." Simply going where the food is doesn't imply
domestication. :-)

The kittenishness or infantilism of adult cats makes them very different
from any wild cat. The desert sand cat & the Afghan mountain cat look
exactly like domestic cats, but even if hand-raised are largely
unmanageable (the domestic cat is likely descended from these two). A
southeast asian fisher cat, or south american jagurundi, though small
enough to live loose in the house like a domestic cat, cannot be so kept,
for they will never cease to be nervous in captivity & if loose in the
house like a domestic cat, hooboy, they'd hide constantly & only sneak out
from behind the kitchen stove at night to destroy all your stuff. A bobcat
can easily crossbreed with a domestic cat & the resulting half-bobcat can
be a perfectly reasonable housecat, but the bobcat itself cannot. So
really, a few thousand years of domestication has changed them
dramatically.

That they can become feral in a trice is not unique among domestic breeds
& no indication they are unchanged. Horses & burrows also revert to the
wild with great ease. Domestic dogs can form very dangerous feral packs. A
good argument could be made for horses not being substantially different
from the wild animals first domesticated above the Black Sea; & the fully
domesticated Indian elephant is also unchanged from the wild forest
elephants they once were, & could still live on their own except the
forests they require no longer exist. And the camel, domesticated long
before horses or cattle, is no different than a wild camel. Pigs go feral
with spectacular ease even though domestic strains bare little physical
resemblance to their wild cousins. But cats & dogs can live IN the house
because of a infantalism such as makes them permanant human "child
substitutes"; to impose that level of infantalism on any of the wild cats
would fail utterly & result in an awful house pet, whereas infantalism
imposed on wild canines, though possible, never makes them save toward
anyone outside their "pack" even if their pack is a family of humans.
Domesticated cats & dogs & cattle are very changed compared to their wild
counterparts, more than for horses, asses, ducks, chickens, rabbits,
gerbils, ferrets, elephants, or pigs.

The measurement for domesticated pets would be degree of infantalism that
does not exist in wild counterparts. Coyotes outgrow puppyish dependence
and playfulness in ways that labrador retrievers do not. So too
kittenishness of mature domestic cats cannot be achieved with a fisher cat
or oscelot or desert sand cat, all of which make splendid pets until they
are no longer kittens, then are holy terrors inappropriate for mingling
with people. Yet even a second generation feral cat can be domesticated
with just a little bit of patience, because that capacity for permanent
infantilism has been selectively bred into them for thousands of years.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

"animaux" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 04:17:42 GMT, "Some One"
wrote:



Because she doesn't want animals getting into her yard? Same as
anyone
else wanting to keep animals out should do.

Just make owning ANY animal within city limits illegal and pay
$5.00 a
head for any wild animal pelts brought into the pound. A few years
of
that and you'd all be happy, eh?

Dumbasses.


I am never happy when pe(l)ts are brought to the pound. I adore
animals.
That's why I use a barrier method, unlike my neighbor who was
arrested a few
years back for putting out a substance cats will drink and die.
Same dick who
traps neighbors cats and lets them loose far from home.

Someone should do that to his kids... or himself!

"Frogleg" wrote in message
...
Strictly speaking, cats aren't "domesticated", meaning substantially
changed from their wild counterparts and bred for the benefit of man.
While hundreds (thousands?) of dog breeds are quite different from
wolves in physiology and habit, cats are more "tamed" than
"domesticated." Simply going where the food is doesn't imply
domestication. :-)

WOW what a clueless response. Apparently you haven't been to any cat shows
or panthera exhibits!

Interesting, it's the same asshole rational your cactus buddies use to
collect plants.


On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 23:57:59 GMT, "Cereoid-UR12-"
wrote:

Which birds?

If you are talking about starlings and house finches, you are nuts.

Those alien invader pests from Europe have bullied out most of the native
bird species and have done far more damage than cats ever could.


J Kolenovsky wrote in message
...
in order to protect the birds feeding in the garden.